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post #13771 of 14274 Old 03-29-2016, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
Jim from Lumagen posted in the Radiance pro thread about their upcoming "Rec.2020/HDR compatibility firmware" and it sounds really promising for us with a Pro unit and a non HDR display (vw1100). You can read the entire post here

"The Pro will report and accept both Rec 2020 and HDR10 (when the software is done), and then output to a Non-HDR, Non Rec 2020 TV or projector (and those that support these of course). The calibrator would calibrate to the maximum brightness and use the HDR Gamma curve for the HDR mode.

Meta Data for HDR is supposed to report the Grading information. While we have not implemented it, the Radiance Pro will interpret the source per the Meta data and map it to the measured performance of the TV/projector. Said another way, the plan is to support material graded to different intensity levels and provide the best possible image on any TV or Projector that the TV/Projector is capable of, whether or not if has one or both HDR10 or Rec 2020 officially supported."

Excellent news from Lumagen and i can`t wait to try this with the 1100.
In the meantime, I'm still planning to go for the Kaleidescape Strato to add to my system comprising of Sony VPL-VW1100ES, Oppo-103, Marantz SR7009. Also, plan to get the Radiance Pro as I've heard it works really well w/Kaleidescape. I've been advised to get Ethereal HDMI cables - anything else needed to make the VPL-VW1100ES + Kaleidescape + Radiance Pro work - any "boxes" that I read about all the time since the Sony can only take HDMI 2.0 inputs and no HDR?
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post #13772 of 14274 Old 03-29-2016, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS3771 View Post
In the meantime, I'm still planning to go for the Kaleidescape Strato to add to my system comprising of Sony VPL-VW1100ES, Oppo-103, Marantz SR7009. Also, plan to get the Radiance Pro as I've heard it works really well w/Kaleidescape. I've been advised to get Ethereal HDMI cables - anything else needed to make the VPL-VW1100ES + Kaleidescape + Radiance Pro work - any "boxes" that I read about all the time since the Sony can only take HDMI 2.0 inputs and no HDR?
I think the "box" you have in mind is the HDFury Integral which can convert HDCP 2.2 to non HDCP 2.2 and to my knowledge, the SR7009 is not HDCP 2.2 compatible so if you intend to use it in your chain of devices, yes you will need the box. All the other devices in your list are HDCP 2.2 compatible.
With the new rec2020/HDR software in the Pro, you will be able to send HDR from your Strato to the Pro which will then map it to your VW1100s performance and output the best possible image if i understand it right.
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post #13773 of 14274 Old 03-29-2016, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
I think the "box" you have in mind is the HDFury Integral which can convert HDCP 2.2 to non HDCP 2.2 and to my knowledge, the SR7009 is not HDCP 2.2 compatible so if you intend to use it in your chain of devices, yes you will need the box. All the other devices in your list are HDCP 2.2 compatible.
With the new rec2020/HDR software in the Pro, you will be able to send HDR from your Strato to the Pro which will then map it to your VW1100s performance and output the best possible image if i understand it right.
That's when the software is finished...which there is no guarantee on when it will be or what the exact functionality will be.

You can use a non-HDCP 2.2 AVR just fine with a Radiance Pro in the mix. You can dedicate one of the outputs for audio-only. I'm using an older Marantz just fine with numerous 4K sources with the Radiance Pro outputting to input 2 on the 1100ES.

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post #13774 of 14274 Old 03-29-2016, 02:32 PM
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That's when the software is finished...which there is no guarantee on when it will be or what the exact functionality will be.

You can use a non-HDCP 2.2 AVR just fine with a Radiance Pro in the mix. You can dedicate one of the outputs for audio-only. I'm using an older Marantz just fine with numerous 4K sources with the Radiance Pro outputting to input 2 on the 1100ES.
You are right, forgot about the dedicated audio output on the Pro so then there is no need for the Integral.
I also just noticed that the Strato has dual HDMI outputs which provides an additional option.
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post #13775 of 14274 Old 04-08-2016, 06:28 AM
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Just got my 1000 back from Sony after a warranty repair, but somewhere between me and them, and them and me, the lens doors have been dislodged and are currently jammed open :/

Any easy way to fix this myself?

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post #13776 of 14274 Old 04-08-2016, 06:33 AM
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Hello Mark,

this happened to my vw 1000 also, after i get him back from the update to 1100.
In my case after a few times on and off it goes back to closing normal. I can remember how long/many movies it takes.

By the way i get the new Panasonic UHD BR Player tommerow to test for 24h i hope it went well and report asap good news
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post #13777 of 14274 Old 04-08-2016, 02:24 PM
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This is what I dread. Every time I had warranty repairs performed on something, it came back with other issues, functional or cosmetic, most of them due to poor handling and lack of care by the technicians. Nothing, absolutely nothing will be treated as they are treated in the factory.

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Originally Posted by Mark_H View Post
Just got my 1000 back from Sony after a warranty repair, but somewhere between me and them, and them and me, the lens doors have been dislodged and are currently jammed open :/

Any easy way to fix this myself?
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post #13778 of 14274 Old 04-08-2016, 02:45 PM
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This is what I dread. Every time I had warranty repairs performed on something, it came back with other issues, functional or cosmetic, most of them due to poor handling and lack of care by the technicians. Nothing, absolutely nothing will be treated as they are treated in the factory.
Most likely this happened in shipping. We had a few VW1000's this happened to. Most of the time in the closed position. All you had to do was assist the doors in opening during startup. Doors would pop back onto track and work fine from then on.

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post #13779 of 14274 Old 04-08-2016, 07:56 PM
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Yep, my AVS purchased Sony had this issue on shipping. Doors popped back into track easily enough.

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post #13780 of 14274 Old 04-09-2016, 07:47 AM
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Doors working again. *phew*

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post #13781 of 14274 Old 04-10-2016, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_H View Post
Doors working again. *phew*
Figured once you knew these can be popped back on track, that you would have the problem resolved quickly.

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post #13782 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 05:39 AM
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Hi Guys,

last weekend i have the chance to test new Panasonic UHD Player with my VW 1100 for 24h.
I had handshake Probs and can get no signal bigger than 4K/24p SDR/BT.709 ycbcr4:2:2/12 bit
Wich is shown on the screeen by touching the signal in/out button on Pana Control
So have no chance to see the benetif DCI/P3 Colors wich is included in the BT 2020 signal.
Remember SONY build in a DCI Filter to display this Colors correct !

I will get the Player again next sunday to test again, but this time with a hd Fury in the chain.
I stay in touch with them. Please cross Finger this will work
The the VW1100ES is 4K60 4:2:0 8b MAX ???
I think i read here in this thread that the VW 1100 supports 10 BIT right ?

For BT2020 you need at least 10b or 12b to visually see the improvement.
so the UHD BR native res of 4K60 4:2:0 10bit is not supported.

The the VW1100ES is 4K60 4:2:0 8b MAX ???
I think i read here in this thread that the VW 1100 supports 10 BIT right.
Please Geeks answer


Best Dirk

Last edited by Dirk44; 04-12-2016 at 05:46 AM.
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post #13783 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 06:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
Hi Guys,

last weekend i have the chance to test new Panasonic UHD Player with my VW 1100 for 24h.
I had handshake Probs and can get no signal bigger than 4K/24p SDR/BT.709 ycbcr4:2:2/12 bit
Wich is shown on the screeen by touching the signal in/out button on Pana Control
So have no chance to see the benetif DCI/P3 Colors wich is included in the BT 2020 signal.
Remember SONY build in a DCI Filter to display this Colors correct !

I will get the Player again next sunday to test again, but this time with a hd Fury in the chain.
I stay in touch with them. Please cross Finger this will work
The the VW1100ES is 4K60 4:2:0 8b MAX ???
I think i read here in this thread that the VW 1100 supports 10 BIT right ?

For BT2020 you need at least 10b or 12b to visually see the improvement.
so the UHD BR native res of 4K60 4:2:0 10bit is not supported.

The the VW1100ES is 4K60 4:2:0 8b MAX ???
I think i read here in this thread that the VW 1100 supports 10 BIT right.
Please Geeks answer


Best Dirk
You need a way to convert the REC 2020 color points to P3 and currently, unless the projector gets support for such a feature, you aren't going to see this happening on the 1100ES. I would imgaine it lacks the appropriate on board hardware to do it. The 1100ES lacks support for SMPTE 2086 so you aren't going to get better than REC709 color without something to do the conversion necessary to get P3 color points.
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post #13784 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 06:22 AM
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thanx seegs,

my high hope is to get signal conversation forced in any way by including the fury.
what about 10 Bit question ?
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post #13785 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
thanx seegs,

my high hope is to get signal conversation forced in any way by including the fury.
what about 10 Bit question ?
The latest HDMI spec is 18Gbps. 4k60p 4:2:0 10bit exceeds 18Gbps. No display is going to be able to do that at this point. 4K 24P 4:2:0 10 bit is possible. That is also what 4K UHD BD is currently, so that is what you should be trying to achieve.

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post #13786 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 06:53 AM
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thanx mike
i will try at sunday and report here later
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post #13787 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 06:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
thanx seegs,

my high hope is to get signal conversation forced in any way by including the fury.
what about 10 Bit question ?
I would email them and ask if the hardware on the HDFury could do this on the fly. Once UHD BD encryption is broken you'll be able to use MadVR on an HTPC to convert REC2020 color points to P3. This is the only piece of software that I know of currently that can do this conversion, but again, we need to wait until AACS 2.0 is cracked before this can happen.
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post #13788 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
Hi Guys,

last weekend i have the chance to test new Panasonic UHD Player with my VW 1100 for 24h.
I had handshake Probs and can get no signal bigger than 4K/24p SDR/BT.709 ycbcr4:2:2/12 bit
Wich is shown on the screeen by touching the signal in/out button on Pana Control
So have no chance to see the benetif DCI/P3 Colors wich is included in the BT 2020 signal.
Remember SONY build in a DCI Filter to display this Colors correct !

I will get the Player again next sunday to test again, but this time with a hd Fury in the chain.
I stay in touch with them. Please cross Finger this will work
The the VW1100ES is 4K60 4:2:0 8b MAX ???
I think i read here in this thread that the VW 1100 supports 10 BIT right ?

For BT2020 you need at least 10b or 12b to visually see the improvement.
so the UHD BR native res of 4K60 4:2:0 10bit is not supported.

The the VW1100ES is 4K60 4:2:0 8b MAX ???
I think i read here in this thread that the VW 1100 supports 10 BIT right.
Please Geeks answer


Best Dirk
Hi Dirk, what did you think of the video you were getting at 4K/24p?

I have the hdfury integrale, the Panasonic is soon to be released in the Uk..i intend to get one so I can atleast get the resolution increase, if nothing else.

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post #13789 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 10:10 AM
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I would email them and ask if the hardware on the HDFury could do this on the fly. Once UHD BD encryption is broken you'll be able to use MadVR on an HTPC to convert REC2020 color points to P3. This is the only piece of software that I know of currently that can do this conversion, but again, we need to wait until AACS 2.0 is cracked before this can happen.
There is a cryptic mention of the Panasonic UHD player having the ability to remap colors in the AVS thread. But it is a translation from french I believe. I have been thinking of getting one for my 1100ES. Why the hell is this player so secret, and why is it not available in the US yet?
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post #13790 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The latest HDMI spec is 18Gbps. 4k60p 4:2:0 10bit exceeds 18Gbps. No display is going to be able to do that at this point. 4K 24P 4:2:0 10 bit is possible. That is also what 4K UHD BD is currently, so that is what you should be trying to achieve.
Sorry to correct this Mike, but 4k(2160)60p 4:2:0 10-bit actually "only" requires 11.14 Gbps. The 11.14 Gbps bandwidth is still exceeding the 10.2 Gbps threshold of the HDMI chip-sets Sony installed on this projector, unfortunately.

You may be thinking about 4:4:4 2160/60p at 10-bit (8-bit of 4:4:4 is 17.82 Gbps, borderline with the full HDMI 2.0 spec), which is what it was reported the new Samsung player outputs, regardless the actual content is just 4:2:0 on the disc, for which the HD Fury Integral may help some installations if the EDID does not automatically do that correctly by itself, my VW1100 does it.

What I do not see been discussed is the possibility of using the more gradual 10-bit signal of 4K Blu-ray "but without HDR brighter extensions" (removed by the Fury) inputted to the VW1100 so the image will at least enjoy less banding with 1024 steps rather than 256 of 8-bit, I am about to test that with the Fury I ordered for a review.
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post #13791 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by R. La Maestra View Post
Sorry to correct this Mike, but 4k(2160)60p 4:2:0 10-bit actually "only" requires 11.14 Gbps. The 11.14 Gbps bandwidth is still exceeding the 10.2 Gbps threshold of the HDMI chip-sets Sony installed on this projector, unfortunately.

You may be thinking about 4:4:4 2160/60p at 10-bit (8-bit of 4:4:4 is 17.82 Gbps, borderline with the full HDMI 2.0 spec), which is what it was reported the new Samsung player outputs, regardless the actual content is just 4:2:0 on the disc, for which the HD Fury Integral may help some installations if the EDID does not automatically do that correctly by itself, my VW1100 does it.

What I do not see been discussed is the possibility of using the more gradual 10-bit signal of 4K Blu-ray "but without HDR brighter extensions" (removed by the Fury) inputted to the VW1100 so the image will at least enjoy less banding with 1024 steps rather than 256 of 8-bit, I am about to test that with the Fury I ordered for a review.
Yes, 4:4:4. Thank you for the correction. Yes, all the Sony can do at 60p is 4:2:0 8 bit, but it can do 24P 4:2:0 10 bit, which is what 4K UHD movies are.

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post #13792 of 14274 Old 04-12-2016, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
Hi Guys,

last weekend i have the chance to test new Panasonic UHD Player with my VW 1100 for 24h.
I had handshake Probs and can get no signal bigger than 4K/24p SDR/BT.709 ycbcr4:2:2/12 bit
Wich is shown on the screeen by touching the signal in/out button on Pana Control
So have no chance to see the benetif DCI/P3 Colors wich is included in the BT 2020 signal.
Remember SONY build in a DCI Filter to display this Colors correct !

I will get the Player again next sunday to test again, but this time with a hd Fury in the chain.
I stay in touch with them. Please cross Finger this will work
The the VW1100ES is 4K60 4:2:0 8b MAX ???
I think i read here in this thread that the VW 1100 supports 10 BIT right ?

For BT2020 you need at least 10b or 12b to visually see the improvement.
so the UHD BR native res of 4K60 4:2:0 10bit is not supported.

The the VW1100ES is 4K60 4:2:0 8b MAX ???
I think i read here in this thread that the VW 1100 supports 10 BIT right.
Please Geeks answer


Best Dirk
I've already played around with my 1100 and Hdfury with the Samsung K8500 to test the extents of what you can do just for the hell of it after my RS600 got sent away a couple of weeks ago with its bungled firmware update (its still out there in the ether somewhere..). Essentially net result and totally expected, basically stuff all more than basic 4K playback. You can't force or get any results trying to send WCG or HDR to the 1100, nothing will magically happen here of course nor will as already mentioned support beyond the capability of the HDMI chipset occur.
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post #13793 of 14274 Old 04-13-2016, 01:35 AM
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Thanx for all the input, I'm trying to understand half of it, because I just a geek which want to see movies best possible way.

Seems like I have to send the fury back, the EDID button is not adjustable ,maybe transport damage....strange.

If OzHDHT Info is right and the bottleneck is the HDMI Chipset, the VW 1100 will never get WCG, in that case the Lumagen Pro as mentioned by bakeapples here, will not deliver us the WCG to the VW 1100 also ?

Looking forward what Rodolfo can find out about 1024 vs. 256 at the VW 1100

P.S. I will pick my UHD Pana Player tonight and enjoy the picture with/without WCG
P.S.S. I still believe in magic!

Last edited by Dirk44; 04-13-2016 at 06:48 AM.
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post #13794 of 14274 Old 04-13-2016, 06:40 AM
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If OzHDHT Info is right and the bottleneck is the HDMI Chipset, the VW 1100 will never get WCG, in that case the Lumagen Pro as mentioned by bakeapples here, will not deliver us the WCG to the VW 1100 also ?
According to Jim in the Lumagen thread, eventually the Pro will attempt to convert whatever is input to the best possible picture the output device can take. And also, as far as WCG / HDR to the 1100ES, the available brightness in many environments is a limiting factor anyway.
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Originally Posted by turls View Post
According to Jim in the Lumagen thread, eventually the Pro will attempt to convert whatever is input to the best possible picture the output device can take. And also, as far as WCG / HDR to the 1100ES, the available brightness in many environments is a limiting factor anyway.
People argued with me when 2 years ago, I talked about the 35% light loss and how people may pick Rec709 over BT2020, due to lack of brightness on their large 120" plus size screens.

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According to Jim in the Lumagen thread, eventually the Pro will attempt to convert whatever is input to the best possible picture the output device can take. And also, as far as WCG / HDR to the 1100ES, the available brightness in many environments is a limiting factor anyway.
What's interesting is that I think many people were starting to find something like a Lumagen superfluous now that onboard video processing has gotten so good. Now that this new format/standard is wonky and disc/player dependent I think Lumagen has found it's own niche to fill so that legacy displays or those looking to do something extremely custom can do it with a device like the Lumagen Pro.
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post #13797 of 14274 Old 04-13-2016, 11:24 AM
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I think the Lumagen Pro may well be the key to getting the absolute best from UHD/HDR/WGC... By measuring what our displays are actually capable of (accounting for bulb aging/degradation etc) via, eg CalMAN, and then mapping not only the HDR meta-data, but also the colour cube, into that space is something way beyond what most displays will offer. And indeed some displays will make assumptions based on what it THINKS the display is capable of, rather than what it is actually capable of, mapping the meta-data into that unobtainable space and that is only going to lead to more errors. The Pro will allow is to get it absolutely right. In theory...
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post #13798 of 14274 Old 04-13-2016, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_H View Post
I think the Lumagen Pro may well be the key to getting the absolute best from UHD/HDR/WGC... By measuring what our displays are actually capable of (accounting for bulb aging/degradation etc) via, eg CalMAN, and then mapping not only the HDR meta-data, but also the colour cube, into that space is something way beyond what most displays will offer. And indeed some displays will make assumptions based on what it THINKS the display is capable of, rather than what it is actually capable of, mapping the meta-data into that unobtainable space and that is only going to lead to more errors. The Pro will allow is to get it absolutely right. In theory...
For a minute there, I thought you had written Lumagen's new add copy, until the last line.
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post #13799 of 14274 Old 04-14-2016, 01:02 AM
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For a minute there, I thought you had written Lumagen's new add copy, until the last line.
Definitely a long time Lumagen fan, hence the hyperbole, but also a pragmatist, hence the caveat... If anybody can deliver this, it's Lumagen. Maybe. And there I go again! I'll stop now!

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post #13800 of 14274 Old 04-14-2016, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_H View Post
Definitely a long time Lumagen fan, hence the hyperbole, but also a pragmatist, hence the caveat... If anybody can deliver this, it's Lumagen. Maybe. And there I go again! I'll stop now!
I agree. Lumagen makes a great product.

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