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post #2341 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by BrianMundt View Post

I've read elsewhere (in numerous places) that native 4K content (via HTPC) on this projector leaves a lot to be desired. I've heard that contrast ratios and gamma are awful in native 4K, which to me, doesn't make too much sense considering unconverted 1080p CR and gamma are fine. Anyone have any experience with this?

Where are you reading this? Since the 4K sources are so new (I assume this is an ATI card?), could it be a card hardware or driver issue?

We know Sony has demo'ed it for reviewers with native 4K and I don't remember this mentioned.

Matt
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post #2342 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 07:47 AM
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Guys, anybody contemplating this projector, this month would be a good time to buy, much better than next month.

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post #2343 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

And besides Mark I am not the only one having a positive experience with the 790. Just check out the 790 thread and read what all the new owners are saying...

Stop the presses! People who spent money on the Sony 790 have good things to say about it!



Sorry, I couldn't resist!

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post #2344 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Well last I checked Sony has the only Blu ray player upscaling to 4K on the market today. And it does a pretty nice job doing it. I prefer it sending 1080p because then you can add its video adjustments. When they allow them while sending 4K then the Conclusion might be different. The 790 at 249 msrp is the best bang for the buck player available.

But Joe, didn't you (or someone else) say that Sony engineers themselves told you that the VW1000 does a better job than the 790 BD player of upconverting 1080p to 4K?
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post #2345 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Guys, anybody contemplating this projector, this month would be a good time to buy, much better than next month.

Is this because next month is one month closer to September and CEDIA and each month you get closer to CEDIA is an increasingly worst month for dropping money on a projector??

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post #2346 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Well last I checked Sony has the only Blu ray player upscaling to 4K on the market today. And it does a pretty nice job doing it. I prefer it sending 1080p because then you can add its video adjustments. When they allow them while sending 4K then the Conclusion might be different. The 790 at 249 msrp is the best bang for the buck player available.

Mark have you seen one? I have had probably 30 or more Blu ray players since the formats birth and I call them like I SEE them.

Really? Given Sony's Blu-ray player performance (especially on the video side) and what I've heard about it I would be willing to wager that the new Panasonic players (at the same price) would wipe the floor with the Sony in terms of accuracy and video processing.

What is the point of having a Blu-ray player that upscales to 4K? Given the absolute dearth of 4K displays on the market (all of which have better internal video processing than the Sony player), what could possibly be the selling point of their 4K scaling?? The Sony projector has better scaling, the Meridian has better scaling, the JVC (pro model, the true 4K one) has better scaling.

I would rather feed my high end 4K display a no compromise video signal than one from an upscaling player with an inferior signal. And honestly, if you're paying for a 4K display right now, the cost of a true reference Blu-ray player is a drop in the bucket.

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post #2347 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

So Joe, from a quick catch up of the dedicated thread, sounds like its time, apart from multi-region issues, to push aside my Oppo 93 for one of these, especially for the price?

Yes. The Oppo 93 is getting a little long in the tooth. For the complete package (image, 3D and streaming) and price definitely.

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post #2348 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

But Joe, didn't you (or someone else) say that Sony engineers themselves told you that the VW1000 does a better job than the 790 BD player of upconverting 1080p to 4K?

Which may be why I have settled on sending 1080p to the 1000 now. The 1000 is better but I do get the best results with sending 1080p from the 790 to it more so than any other player.

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post #2349 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Stop the presses! People who spent money on the Sony 790 have good things to say about it!



Sorry, I couldn't resist!

Read the Panny and pioneer threads. There are plenty who buy and hate. Not so much with the 790.

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post #2350 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Really? Given Sony's Blu-ray player performance (especially on the video side) and what I've heard about it I would be willing to wager that the new Panasonic players (at the same price) would wipe the floor with the Sony in terms of accuracy and video processing.

What is the point of having a Blu-ray player that upscales to 4K? Given the absolute dearth of 4K displays on the market (all of which have better internal video processing than the Sony player), what could possibly be the selling point of their 4K scaling?? The Sony projector has better scaling, the Meridian has better scaling, the JVC (pro model, the true 4K one) has better scaling.

I would rather feed my high end 4K display a no compromise video signal than one from an upscaling player with an inferior signal. And honestly, if you're paying for a 4K display right now, the cost of a true reference Blu-ray player is a drop in the bucket.

I am not feeding the 1000 4K. I specifically said it does an excellent job with 1080p and Sony adjustments. I also get a sharper image with more depth with 3D. And I compared it to the Panny 320 and it wasn't close. I am not the only one Who agrees with this assessment. Others have compared too. And Streaming is top notch on this Sony gen. Again an opinion shared by others who have compared. And I had the JVC RS55 here and I would not agree with you on that one. Besides, you can't send the JVC 4K anyway so there is no way to truly compare them. And after spending a lot of funds on a higher end pj getting this type of performance without having to spend much (in comparison) is a win for us. Winning!

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post #2351 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Yes. The Oppo 93 is getting a little long in the tooth. For the complete package (image, 3D and streaming) and price definitely.

Are you kidding here? Long in the tooth? It is the most accurate player on the market today with flawless video processing in every respect. Streaming features would be the only reason something else would even compare. I can't remember the last Sony player I MEASURED that didn't have HDMI issues or video processing problems.

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And I had the JVC RS55 here and I would not agree with you on that one. Besides, you can't send the JVC 4K anyway so there is no way to truly compare them.

I think I clearly stated the Pro model (true 4K and about $200K), I wasn't talking about the consumer models (RS55/65). Again, any TRUE 4K device has better internal video processing than the Sony player, so the 4K upsampling isn't really benefitting anyone. If someone wanted something to scale to 4K they'd be better off using the Marvell solution in the Integra/Onkyo high end processors. This is the same solution being used in the cost-no-object Merdian 4K projector.

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post #2352 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Are you kidding here? Long in the tooth? It is the most accurate player on the market today with flawless video processing in every respect. Streaming features would be the only reason something else would even compare. I can't remember the last Sony player I MEASURED that didn't have HDMI issues or video processing problems.



I think I clearly stated the Pro model (true 4K and about $200K), I wasn't talking about the consumer models (RS55/65). Again, any TRUE 4K device has better internal video processing than the Sony player, so the 4K upsampling isn't really benefitting anyone. If someone wanted something to scale to 4K they'd be better off using the Marvell solution in the Integra/Onkyo high end processors. This is the same solution being used in the cost-no-object Merdian 4K projector.

Streaming is still stuck at 720p versus 1080p. And yes, it is going on two years old now. It has been passed. They undercut the 1000 players at 499 and now they just had the same done at 249. Circle of life if you will. I still like Oppo but they need to release a player for less which is even better than their 93. Even the Pannys have caught up (I really liked their 310). Again, nothing against them (they send me chocolates and a card at Chrismtas time too) but they need to move forward. 3D is even better on the 790. And yes I have all the players I mentioned.

Lastly I tried the 4K scaling in the 80.3 and it sucks compared to the 790. Not even close there! Onkyo should not have marketed it last year. Waaaaaay to soft an image. I don't blame you for suggesting it because on paper it should be better but in real life.... That's why the games are played.

And I am much closer to Onkyo than any company out there.

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post #2353 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Yes. The Oppo 93 is getting a little long in the tooth. For the complete package (image, 3D and streaming) and price definitely.

Joe I like your reviews and getting to check out a hands on of a lot of gear, but that statement is rediculous. I would not suggest to anyone to drop the Oppo (note that this was in response to Oz asking if he should replace his Oppo with the Sony) if perfect Bluray playback is their goal. The Oppo is a benchmark. Until someone measures the latest Sony and proves that it is as flawless as the Oppo at outputting correct signal levels, etc, like the Oppo, I dont think I could come close to considering it in the same league as Oppo. And Sony has a terrible history here.

Now, for steaming.. maybe.. but I dont care about that so I cant comment.

I DO care about ISO playback though.... so nothing compares to my "never to be firmware updated again" Oppo.

EDIT.. sorry I see Kris already beat me to "defending" Oppo.

Anyway... back to talking about banding and dust blobs....
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post #2354 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 09:28 AM
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What does being closer to a company or liking a company have to do with anything?? Reviewing isn't about who you like or what company is nice to you. It is about OBJECTIVELY comparing products and making recommendations based on those results. While I agree that subjective comments certainly have their place, I could never ignore objective measurements that clearly show one product as being worse than the other. For 1080p output of Blu-ray material the Oppo 93 is PERFECT. I am not saying that subjectively or because I think Oppo is a nice company. It is a MEASURED FACT. I have yet to measure a Sony player that has even a perfect HDMI output.

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post #2355 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

What does being closer to a company or liking a company have to do with anything?? Reviewing isn't about who you like or what company is nice to you. It is about OBJECTIVELY comparing products and making recommendations based on those results. While I agree that subjective comments certainly have their place, I could never ignore objective measurements that clearly show one product as being worse than the other. For 1080p output of Blu-ray material the Oppo 93 is PERFECT. I am not saying that subjectively or because I think Oppo is a nice company. It is a MEASURED FACT. I have yet to measure a Sony player that has even a perfect HDMI output.

I meant that I love Onkyo but have to admit their 4K scaling attempt was terrible. Many here who know me would agree that I play with more Onkyo than any other brand which is proof by example that I call it like I see it.

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post #2356 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Joe I like your reviews and getting to check out a hands on of a lot of gear, but that statement is rediculous. I would not suggest to anyone to drop the Oppo (note that this was in response to Oz asking if he should replace his Oppo with the Sony) if perfect Bluray playback is their goal. The Oppo is a benchmark. Until someone measures the latest Sony and proves that it is as flawless as the Oppo at outputting correct signal levels, etc, like the Oppo, I dont think I could come close to considering it in the same league as Oppo. And Sony has a terrible history here.

Now, for steaming.. maybe.. but I dont care about that so I cant comment.

I DO care about ISO playback though.... so nothing compares to my "never to be firmware updated again" Oppo.

EDIT.. sorry I see Kris already beat me to "defending" Oppo.

Anyway... back to talking about banding and dust blobs....

I am suggesting that if someone is looking for a new player today not to just overlook the 790 because it cost 249. And if Streaming and 3D are important to you than I would consider using the 790 over the Oppo. Oh wait, I already do.

And the blu ray 1080p/24 with Sony's adjustments make it the best all around player out there today.


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Back to the 1000ES.... I won't respond to other comments, if need be they can send me a PM. Has anyone else watched Clueless Blu ray on the 1000ES yet? Just kidding.

Actually I have to later with the Wife.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Is this because next month is one month closer to September and CEDIA and each month you get closer to CEDIA is an increasingly worst month for dropping money on a projector??

Nothing to do with CEDIA or waiting or not waiting for CEDIA.

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post #2359 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Nothing to do with CEDIA or waiting or not waiting for CEDIA.

I was just poking fun, I know it didn't have to do with CEDIA.

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post #2360 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Nothing to do with CEDIA or waiting or not waiting for CEDIA.

Sounds to me like it's the hint of a coming price increase.
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post #2361 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 10:19 AM
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Sounds to me like it's the hint of a coming price increase.

Or a Cinco de mayo Sale!

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post #2362 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 12:01 PM
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post #2363 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I am suggesting that if someone is looking for a new player today not to just overlook the 790 because it cost 249. And if Streaming and 3D are important to you than I would consider using the 790 over the Oppo. Oh wait, I already do.

And the blu ray 1080p/24 with Sony's adjustments make it the best all around player out there today.


Stop the presses again!

Joerod forgot to suggest or recommend his Monster Cable along with the 790. Does Monster send you chocolate too?



Sorry, I couldn't resist either!
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post #2364 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Nothing to do with CEDIA or waiting or not waiting for CEDIA.



Okay Mike, I take the bait or is it a secret ? or is it that you need to kill me, after you have told me the reason

I do not think it is going to get more expensive - that would stop much/all sale off it - its never a good ide to first pricing a product and then later increase the price - not even if price increase is real and understandable ( say like parts are getting more expensive to produce/buy ) - because all potential customers would remember the first ( and "cheaper" ) price and there are not much fun in buying things who have been selling for less before

If Sony wants to "get away" with that, they would need to change it markedly to justify the increase ( etc. a new 1.5 HDMI standard connection and/ or native 4K 3D input / 4K or/and QHD at 48,50,60P input - as a hardware upgrade/ change.

I dont think a software solution like active RC with 4K input or a working CMS etc. would be enought to justify ANY increase - that would be very disrespectful to the first customers ( who still have paid a lot off money for it ) and very bad publicity after IMO.

Ofcourse others may disagree

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post #2365 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 01:52 PM
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Price changes aren't completely uncommon. Recently examples I can think of are Parasound with the JC1 amps and Sim2 with their projector lines. I believe the the Lumis has changed prices a few times.

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post #2366 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Stop the presses again!

Joerod forgot to suggest or recommend his Monster Cable along with the 790. Does Monster send you chocolate too?



Sorry, I couldn't resist either!

Probably not chocolate. But if anyone sees pictures of Joe taking a stroll on a segway I'd be very suspicious.

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post #2367 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Stop the presses again!

Joerod forgot to suggest or recommend his Monster Cable along with the 790. Does Monster send you chocolate too?



Sorry, I couldn't resist either!

Never once! They owe me.

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post #2368 of 10190 Old 05-03-2012, 09:42 PM
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Quick question to those that have had to exchange their units-- I've read people talking about 90 day return windows. What exactly do the 90 days entail? How are they different than the 3 year warranty?
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post #2369 of 10190 Old 05-04-2012, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BrianMundt View Post

Quick question to those that have had to exchange their units-- I've read people talking about 90 day return windows. What exactly do the 90 days entail? How are they different than the 3 year warranty?

For the first 90 days Sony will diagnose the problem over the phone with you or through your dealer and their special hotline and if they think something is wrong with the unit they will just overnight you a new one and send a prepaid label for the old. After 90 days you will pay to ship a problematic unit back to them. That's about $175 or more in shipping.
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post #2370 of 10190 Old 05-04-2012, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Price changes aren't completely uncommon. Recently examples I can think of are Parasound with the JC1 amps and Sim2 with their projector lines. I believe the the Lumis has changed prices a few times.

I think AVS introduced the TruVue Vango LED Projector at a lower introductory price as well then moved it up after a short period of time. Sometimes it pays to be an early adopter
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