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post #2611 of 10446 Old 05-25-2012, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

I'm going to post this again since I got no response. I think this is a big deal since you don't really need/want an A-lens with this PJ and Sony is pushing it as a big screen PJ. What is also interesting is the effect seems to be greatly magnified with 2.35/2.37 content vs 16:9:

Is anybody else using the 1000ES with a very large screen and significant vertical shift (I'm also at almost minimum throw if that matters)? After looking at other Sony PJ threads, I've found reference on older models to my core geometry issue, which is slight trapezoid on the left and right sides (increases as you get closer to the bottom) and horizontal bowing in the bottom middle. I've had two projectors act the same way. I think maybe that is just the way the light path works with a lot of vertical shift (I'm not anywhere near the limits though, I'm less than 2 feet above the top of the screen).

I know it is not the screen because we ran a string test near the bottom of the screen with a perfectly level tight screen and could verify the bowing image with the test patterns built into the projector.

I believe now that my geometry issue at the top of the screen may be an issue with the screen boundary not being perfectly straight/level. That was throwing me off during initial testing with my original projector.

I think some of this may actually be able to be corrected by intentionally shimming the screen out of plane, but it may not be worth it. Not sure how big of a deal it is going to be long term since I don't have my HTPC hooked up yet and I haven't used gaming systems that much yet.

Hi,

My projector is 95ES and also i am at the short throw.
I encountered the same problem as you with trapezoid picture, in one side of the screen ( in my case was the right side and a little bit of bottom).Try to use the knobs or feet of the 1000ES to adjust the height of the projector itself (especially the front). I don't know how to explain better,but in my case it worked in this way
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post #2612 of 10446 Old 05-26-2012, 02:05 AM
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With a bigger screen any misalignment will naturally be easier to spot.
At what stage does one start to blame the projector?
Could it be that the projetor gradually loses alignment if the ceiling attachement used is not strong enough to stably support this big projector?

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post #2613 of 10446 Old 05-26-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

I'm going to post this again since I got no response. I think this is a big deal since you don't really need/want an A-lens with this PJ and Sony is pushing it as a big screen PJ. What is also interesting is the effect seems to be greatly magnified with 2.35/2.37 content vs 16:9:

Is anybody else using the 1000ES with a very large screen and significant vertical shift (I'm also at almost minimum throw if that matters)? After looking at other Sony PJ threads, I've found reference on older models to my core geometry issue, which is slight trapezoid on the left and right sides (increases as you get closer to the bottom) and horizontal bowing in the bottom middle. I've had two projectors act the same way. I think maybe that is just the way the light path works with a lot of vertical shift (I'm not anywhere near the limits though, I'm less than 2 feet above the top of the screen).

I know it is not the screen because we ran a string test near the bottom of the screen with a perfectly level tight screen and could verify the bowing image with the test patterns built into the projector.

I believe now that my geometry issue at the top of the screen may be an issue with the screen boundary not being perfectly straight/level. That was throwing me off during initial testing with my original projector.

I think some of this may actually be able to be corrected by intentionally shimming the screen out of plane, but it may not be worth it. Not sure how big of a deal it is going to be long term since I don't have my HTPC hooked up yet and I haven't used gaming systems that much yet.

A trapezoid image with any projector is almost alway caused by the projector or screen not be perfectly leveled/mechanically aligned. Use a bubble level to make certain the projector is perfectly level front-to-back and left-to-right. Use a bubble level to also make certain the face of the screen is actually vertical and not tilted. Make cretain the projector's front is parallel to the screen. Only after you do these step then use the lens shift to center the image on the screen along with the zoom and focus get final image with the correct geometry.

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post #2614 of 10446 Old 05-26-2012, 08:00 PM
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Do any of you Sony 1000ES owners think there is any chance you will be wanting to upgrade with the CEDIA offerings this September? My guess (and mine) is 'no'.
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post #2615 of 10446 Old 05-26-2012, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Do any of you Sony 1000ES owners think there is any chance you will be wanting to upgrade with the CEDIA offerings this September? My guess (and mine) is 'no'.

I have a feeling Sony won't update the VW1000ES on a yearly basis like they do their other projectors. I think the next update they bring to the line will be laser, and I don't think that'll be until 2013. If they do update the line this year, it'll probably be a small, incremental upgrade like improved CR, a smaller form factor, and possibly a lower price tag.
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post #2616 of 10446 Old 05-26-2012, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Do any of you Sony 1000ES owners think there is any chance you will be wanting to upgrade with the CEDIA offerings this September? My guess (and mine) is 'no'.

Ignoring the fact that most of us have blown our projector budgets for the next few yeas?

Finally got a real screen up for mine 5 days ago (thanks professor Haflich!). Watched the first movie in it's entirety last night. Technically it was very good, but not quite "there". After an hour tweaking today, watched another tonight (MI-ghost protocol). I'm on cloud nine! It's amazing, and I'm not easily amazed. Just incredible detail and vibrancy. I was asked, before tonight, if the image was as good as my Pio plasma (which previously impressed this person), and my response was that it was almost as good, but whatever it lacked, it more than made up for in size. After tonight, I've changed my tune. It's absolutely the equal of my Pio plasma, only a LOT bigger! Some day they'll make a better projector, but it's gonna be a long time before they make one that's a lot better. I'll have this on my face for a long time- long past CEDIA!
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post #2617 of 10446 Old 05-26-2012, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Vlubbers View Post

You might dial out the lens shift, ignoring whether the image remains on the screen or not, and then see what happens to the distortion when the light is using the 'heart' of the lens. If it goes away or is significantly diminished then...

All lenses distort in one way or another and and they are all compromises.

Which reminds me, why doesn't this unit have a reset to remove all lens shift? Sony needs to add that in a firmware upgrade.

Also, there is a lengthy article in the Widescreen Review I just got about the 1000ES, very positive.

Matt
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post #2618 of 10446 Old 05-26-2012, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post


A trapezoid image with any projector is almost alway caused by the projector or screen not be perfectly leveled/mechanically aligned. Use a bubble level to make certain the projector is perfectly level front-to-back and left-to-right. Use a bubble level to also make certain the face of the screen is actually vertical and not tilted. Make cretain the projector's front is parallel to the screen. Only after you do these step then use the lens shift to center the image on the screen along with the zoom and focus get final image with the correct geometry.

It's not a standard trapezoid with typical distortion as you describe. Hard to explain without a pic. Believe me, I had pros here and I'm relatively sure everything is level and flat, and aligned with each other.

Matt
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post #2619 of 10446 Old 05-26-2012, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by maximus74 View Post


Hi,

My projector is 95ES and also i am at the short throw.
I encountered the same problem as you with trapezoid picture, in one side of the screen ( in my case was the right side and a little bit of bottom).Try to use the knobs or feet of the 1000ES to adjust the height of the projector itself (especially the front). I don't know how to explain better,but in my case it worked in this way

Well, I've got a ceiling mount--I will say that my attempt to decouple the projector from the ceiling may not be compatible with the extreme off-center weight of this projector. It still shakes when people walk above and it also may be losing alignment, but that could also be the in exactness of the lens shift memory.

Matt
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post #2620 of 10446 Old 05-26-2012, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post



Ignoring the fact that most of us have blown our projector budgets for the next few yeas?

Finally got a real screen up for mine 5 days ago (thanks professor Haflich!). Watched the first movie in it's entirety last night. Technically it was very good, but not quite "there". After an hour tweaking today, watched another tonight (MI-ghost protocol). I'm on cloud nine! It's amazing, and I'm not easily amazed. Just incredible detail and vibrancy. I was asked, before tonight, if the image was as good as my Pio plasma (which previously impressed this person), and my response was that it was almost as good, but whatever it lacked, it more than made up for in size. After tonight, I've changed my tune. It's absolutely the equal of my Pio plasma, only a LOT bigger! Some day they'll make a better projector, but it's gonna be a long time before they make one that's a lot better. I'll have this on my face for a long time- long past CEDIA!

I agree both with your budgetary considerations and also how nice the 1000 is. I think I will go to CEDIA in Sept, but only for the fun of it this time.
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post #2621 of 10446 Old 05-27-2012, 07:32 AM
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The first ever 4K film/documentary for public consumption will be released on Wednesday May 30.
The file is a single 14 Gigabyte H.264 MOV, with a bit rate of 40-80 Mbits at 4096 x 2304 pixels.
Playtime; 45 minutes.
Should be great as 4K demo material.
http://www.timescapes.org/products/default.aspx
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post #2622 of 10446 Old 05-27-2012, 09:19 AM
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how does one play that on the sony..through computer w/ hdmi out?
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post #2623 of 10446 Old 05-27-2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

The first ever 4K film/documentary for public consumption will be released on Wednesday May 30.
The file is a single 14 Gigabyte H.264 MOV, with a bit rate of 40-80 Mbits at 4096 x 2304 pixels.
Playtime; 45 minutes.
Should be great as 4K demo material.
http://www.timescapes.org/products/default.aspx

$100 for the 4k version to download? Seems silly...


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post #2624 of 10446 Old 05-27-2012, 12:48 PM
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I just had my unit calibrated and in my set up 140" 16.9 1.0 gain SMX AT screen with 170 hours on the bulb the calibrated image (2D) was 22 ft/lamberts . I have some screens including the settings in my thread for those interested. I plan on taking a few more light measurements as the bulb ages to see how it does on the drop off every 100 hours or so. Love the oppo 93 by the way Mike thanks (and good stuff with the shipping a day and half earlier then expected )
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post #2625 of 10446 Old 05-27-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

$100 for the 4k version to download? Seems silly...

Maybe, for some folks, but this is an independent, a lot of time and $ to produce and it is an incredible 4K demo piece. Anyone with 4K capability should have this in their collection, IMO. (No, I'm not the producer.)


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Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post



Ignoring the fact that most of us have blown our projector budgets for the next few yeas?

Finally got a real screen up for mine 5 days ago (thanks professor Haflich!). Watched the first movie in it's entirety last night. Technically it was very good, but not quite "there". After an hour tweaking today, watched another tonight (MI-ghost protocol). I'm on cloud nine! It's amazing, and I'm not easily amazed. Just incredible detail and vibrancy. I was asked, before tonight, if the image was as good as my Pio plasma (which previously impressed this person), and my response was that it was almost as good, but whatever it lacked, it more than made up for in size. After tonight, I've changed my tune. It's absolutely the equal of my Pio plasma, only a LOT bigger! Some day they'll make a better projector, but it's gonna be a long time before they make one that's a lot better. I'll have this on my face for a long time- long past CEDIA!

Thanks. Our entire visit for the set up was a pleasure. You and your entire family made our work seem like the greatest vacation. Thank you my friend.
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post #2627 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post



Ignoring the fact that most of us have blown our projector budgets for the next few yeas?

Finally got a real screen up for mine 5 days ago (thanks professor Haflich!). Watched the first movie in it's entirety last night. Technically it was very good, but not quite "there". After an hour tweaking today, watched another tonight (MI-ghost protocol). I'm on cloud nine! It's amazing, and I'm not easily amazed. Just incredible detail and vibrancy. I was asked, before tonight, if the image was as good as my Pio plasma (which previously impressed this person), and my response was that it was almost as good, but whatever it lacked, it more than made up for in size. After tonight, I've changed my tune. It's absolutely the equal of my Pio plasma, only a LOT bigger! Some day they'll make a better projector, but it's gonna be a long time before they make one that's a lot better. I'll have this on my face for a long time- long past CEDIA!


What screen did you get and how big is it (wide) and what format 16:9 or 2.40:1 ?

dj
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post #2628 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 05:22 AM
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$100 for the 4k version to download? Seems silly...

Agreed. Cut it in half and some may bite. But for a $100???

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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

$100 for the 4k version to download? Seems silly...

Agreed - there is a downloadable trailer, so that might be worth looking at as a start -


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You guys are cheap!

As owners of $20.000 projectors, with replacement lamp cost at $800, and you probably need $$$ to upgrade your PC to be able to play this, and you think a 4K documentary release for $100 is too expensive.

A film that has taken several years of love and dedication to shoot, of high quality natural beauty in 4K, not funded by a rich production company, color graded at the Hollywood "high-end" post house"Light Iron" on a 4K Barco PJ, and is the first 4K film available so you can really see what your 4K projector is good for.
This is an "enthusiast product" for high quality image enthusiast and high-end equipment owners.
And you think the price is Silly!

I think they should have doubled the price out of several reasons, one being that it is the first 4K home media release, and the only one for a long time, and there is not even a distribution system in place for 4K.

They also seems to going back to the original release strategy with a 30GB 4K file on a USB stick, and a higher-end version, a 130GB Cineform 4:2:2 version on a USB 3.0 external drive with higher price.

But of course, if you are cheap you can sit there with your $20K ~ 4K projector watching up-converted HD forever.
Your choice, but don't complain about the price like this is some mass produced BD release from a Hollywood studio.
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post #2631 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

You guys are cheap!

As owners of $20.000 projectors, with replacement lamp cost at $800, and you probably need $$$ to upgrade your PC to be able to play this, and you think a 4K documentary release for $100 is too expensive.

A film that has taken several years of love and dedication to shoot, of high quality natural beauty in 4K, not funded by a rich production company, color graded at the Hollywood "high-end" post house"Light Iron" on a 4K Barco PJ, and is the first 4K film available so you can really see what your 4K projector is good for.
This is an "enthusiast product" for high quality image enthusiast and high-end equipment owners.
And you think the price is Silly!

I think they should have doubled the price out of several reasons, one being that it is the first 4K home media release, and the only one for a long time, and there is not even a distribution system in place for 4K.

They also seems to going back to the original release strategy with a 30GB 4K file on a USB stick, and a higher-end version, a 130GB Cineform 4:2:2 version on a USB 3.0 external drive with higher price.

But of course, if you are cheap you can sit there with your $20K ~ 4K projector watching up-converted HD forever.
Your choice, but don't complain about the price like this is some mass produced BD release from a Hollywood studio.

+1

I will buy this and try it on my VW1000 in the near future as soon as my PC will be able to play it.

Regards
Andreas


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post #2632 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

you guys are cheap! :d

as owners of $20.000 projectors, with replacement lamp cost at $800, and you probably need $$$ to upgrade your pc to be able to play this, and you think a 4k documentary release for $100 is too expensive.

a film that has taken several years of love and dedication to shoot, of high quality natural beauty in 4k, not funded by a rich production company, color graded at the hollywood "high-end" post house"light iron" on a 4k barco pj, and is the first 4k film available so you can really see what your 4k projector is good for.
This is an "enthusiast product" for high quality image enthusiast and high-end equipment owners.
And you think the price is silly!

I think they should have doubled the price out of several reasons, one being that it is the first 4k home media release, and the only one for a long time, and there is not even a distribution system in place for 4k.

They also seems to going back to the original release strategy with a 30gb 4k file on a usb stick, and a higher-end version, a 130gb cineform 4:2:2 version on a usb 3.0 external drive with higher price.

But of course, if you are cheap you can sit there with your $20k ~ 4k projector watching up-converted hd forever.
Your choice, but don't complain about the price like this is some mass produced bd release from a hollywood studio.

+2
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post #2633 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 11:39 AM
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Anybody know what graphics card is the best for 4k material on the VW1000?

Regards
Andreas


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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

What screen did you get and how big is it (wide) and what format 16:9 or 2.40:1 ?

dj

I got a Stewart Firehawk with micro-perf and side masking for CIH. It's a 2.40 screen, 122.5" wide, 51" tall. Mark installed it and did a great job! Main seating is about 12-13 feet, but people have been sitting a lot closer. The micro-perf is so small, you have to be really close to see it during viewing. I was surprised. We had a pile of teenagers watching from 6 feet away with no problem! With a long throw (and a bright projector), there is no visible hot spotting with the Firehawk material. This was a relief for sure! When I say no visible hot spotting, i mean none whatsoever! I've been looking for it in movie after movie, and I cannot detect any. If I put up a full white test screen, one can see a very very slight difference across the screen, but during normal viewing it's simply not an issue at all! The right application is key. I'm getting a very watchable image with some light in the room- enough to read in the back. It's a great material for my non-dedicated room. When I darken the room, the image is stunning. I will say I have been using high-lamp more than I thought I would. I'm just getting a lot more vibrancy and pop with the lamp on high. I don't know if the Firehawk needs more lumens to really have those rich, deep colors. I'm going to continue to tweak and adjust. Maybe I can get that same richness on low lamp with the right settings.
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post #2635 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

You guys are cheap!

As owners of $20.000 projectors, with replacement lamp cost at $800, and you probably need $$$ to upgrade your PC to be able to play this, and you think a 4K documentary release for $100 is too expensive.

A film that has taken several years of love and dedication to shoot, of high quality natural beauty in 4K, not funded by a rich production company, color graded at the Hollywood "high-end" post house"Light Iron" on a 4K Barco PJ, and is the first 4K film available so you can really see what your 4K projector is good for.
This is an "enthusiast product" for high quality image enthusiast and high-end equipment owners.
And you think the price is Silly!



I think they should have doubled the price out of several reasons, one being that it is the first 4K home media release, and the only one for a long time, and there is not even a distribution system in place for 4K.

They also seems to going back to the original release strategy with a 30GB 4K file on a USB stick, and a higher-end version, a 130GB Cineform 4:2:2 version on a USB 3.0 external drive with higher price.

But of course, if you are cheap you can sit there with your $20K ~ 4K projector watching up-converted HD forever.
Your choice, but don't complain about the price like this is some mass produced BD release from a Hollywood studio.

I'm not cheap but too lazy to find a video card for 4K, install it in my PC and even if I do, I don't think I'll ever unplug so many cables and take that beast to my HT
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post #2636 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 03:52 PM
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I'm building my new pc very soon an I will be using the ATI 7970 in a crossfire (2 card solution). The ATI card although technically not the fastest right now that title belongs to nvidia 690. However the ATI's officially support 4k resolution and nvidia does not at this point which made it an easy decision for me. I'll have my components listed for the pc build up this week as I'm just finalizing it with a builder now. The unit will be over kill I'm sure but it'll give others a potential build for what's achievable based on some of the best components available right now. I'm very excited to see the new unit in action hopefully by 1st or 2nd week in June I'll have some test numbers etc up.

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post #2637 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 05:40 PM
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CNET Australia just did a quick preview of the VW1000ES. They said the only downside (with native 4K content) was " a noticeable strobing effect during camera pans — whether this is because of the projector, the PC or the source material, we won't know for sure until we get the projector in for review."

The motion performance of native 4K material seems to be a fairly consistent complaint. Hopefully the problem lies with the PC provided, and not the projector itself. I wonder if the PC Sony's providing isn't powerful enough?

http://www.cnet.com.au/sony-vpl-vw1000es-339338738.htm
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post #2638 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 07:55 PM
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How much does it cost them to shoot newer movies like Avengers and Battleship? We don't see them charging 100.00 for it on release day. You can call us "cheap" all you want but just because we onw a 4K projector doen't mean we have to give into extortion. When Blu ray 4K hits those little "vids" will be sold for a song.

Going first shouldn't mean getting screwed the rest of the way... Just saying...

Instead of swinging for the fences they should consider rounding the bases... I have received about a dozen messages from other owners who agree with me.

For my latest Reviews and stuff Search -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
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post #2639 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

.....With a long throw (and a bright projector), there is no visible hot spotting with the Firehawk material. This was a relief for sure! When I say no visible hot spotting, i mean none whatsoever! I've been looking for it in movie after movie, and I cannot detect any.

I love reading about someone who is so happy with their set up. But I get a bit queasy when it treads into claims that could be misleading for others who read this.

Since you say you are using it in a non-dedicated room, whoever recommended the Firehawk did you a big favor. The Firehawk is a FANTASTIC screen for it's purposes. It always amazes me how beautifully it preserves contrast.

However, just because we are picky about technical stuff around here: it does hotspot. By nature it hotspots. It wouldn't work the way it works if it didn't. Most people don't notice or aren't bothered by it so in that sense to many it's a non-issue as it seems to be with you. But if you are sensitive to hot-spotting as a screen artifact (I am, as are some others here) then it's very easy to see hotspotting on the Firehawk with movie material, long throw or not.

Rich H


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post #2640 of 10446 Old 05-29-2012, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I love reading about someone who is so happy with their set up. But I get a bit queasy when it treads into claims that could be misleading for others who read this.

Since you say you are using it in a non-dedicated room, whoever recommended the Firehawk did you a big favor. The Firehawk is a FANTASTIC screen for it's purposes. It always amazes me how beautifully it preserves contrast.

However, just because we are picky about technical stuff around here: it does hotspot. By nature it hotspots. It wouldn't work the way it works if it didn't. Most people don't notice or aren't bothered by it so in that sense to many it's a non-issue as it seems to be with you. But if you are sensitive to hot-spotting as a screen artifact (I am, as are some others here) then it's very easy to see hotspotting on the Firehawk with movie material, long throw or not.

I've found your posts regarding screens to be the among the most reasonable and balanced I've read, but I slightly disagree with you on this point.

The degree to which the Firehawk hotspots is affected by many variables, such as throw ratio, seating distance, seating angle, projector height, projection angle, etc...(lumens?). When I purchased my Firehawk screen, I expected it to hotspot. The only question was how much, and whether or not it was worth the trade-off. I was pleasantly surprised to see no hot spotting in normal viewing. I've been looking for it. In movie after movie, I've been trying to detect it. Just a bit here or there. Maybe in a blue sky, a green field, a desert.... Can't see it. I strongly disagree that it's "very easy to see". I'm looking for it, and cannot find it. Maybe in another application- different distances, angles, lumens, etc....

As I've said, put up a 100% white screen and look for any lack of uniformity and you will find it. But, under normal viewing conditions, in the correct application, you will not. (At least I don't) The ISF had no problem with it. The proper application is critical. I have no doubt people might see hotspotting in some situations. Stewart was very specific regarding my seating distances, angles, etc....

No question it's not the right screen surface for everyone. What bothers me is the blanket statement that it hot spots. "Focuses" might perhaps be a better term. "Hot spotting" scares some people off. People for whom this would be the best choice.

I understand the "no free lunch principle". Certainly there are trade-offs. Any screen with gain/optical coating creates a compromise. To say that this screen always hotspots would be just as incorrect as saying it never hotspots. There are "costs" to this screen.

Have you ever seen a Firehawk with a long throw ratio, proper seating angles and distances, and a high output projector like the Sony 1000?
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