The Unofficial Mits 7800 Thread.... - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 421 Old 11-25-2011, 04:10 PM
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There is a resolution loss with keystone, but the worst part of keystone seems to be the 1:1 pixel loss and the re-scaler algorithms which adds distortion to the re-mapping zones. The resolution loss is actually pretty minimal for 1-2 clicks on a 1080p projector.

I was trying to get people to test keystone in another thread and have everyone weigh in and tell me how bad the effects were at varying amounts for people buying sub $1500 projectors that didn't want to tilt their screen.

In short, what I found by playing with (5) different projectors is that the amount that Keystone affects an image is all over the place. It might not work as well in gaming since it could add lag or other visual side effects. However, my eyes are not the only set of eyes that would need to examine it, but others failed to contribute their own tests, so I wasn't able to make an absolute determination of what everyone sees.

But, when you can't use it in 3D mode, you can't use it, so it's not applicable here...


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post #362 of 421 Old 11-25-2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trgraphics View Post

Mark, are you saying that this will not have a single pair of glasses with the unit?

It does not normally come with glasses, but there is a promo until the end of the year, that includes one pair of glasses with the HC7800.

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post #363 of 421 Old 11-25-2011, 06:51 PM
 
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Thanks Mike. I didn't know that or I didn't remember that. That's a pretty valuable promo considering the glasses have a MSRP of $199.
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post #364 of 421 Old 11-25-2011, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

The Miits manual says keystone correction does not work in 3d mode and if you have keystone correction set in, it defaults to no keystone correction.

Well congrats you've finally convinced me. This projector is officially off my list. I'm so disappointed I can't use this projector. Oh well, you guys can take my name off the preorder list.
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post #365 of 421 Old 11-25-2011, 08:18 PM
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Get on the Benq w7000 pre-interest / pre-order list, I think the w7000 is going to be awesome, it has lens shift. You won't need keystone, problem solved.

You can't tilt the screen for the Mits?


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post #366 of 421 Old 11-25-2011, 08:27 PM
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Would love to get the w7000 but I don't have the throw distance to fill my 159" HP screen. I have the most of 17.4ft, your calc says I need 18.10 ft. No I can't tilt screen, it's a pull down. I just got the HP screen about two or three months ago so I don't want to downsize. I'm running out of options.
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post #367 of 421 Old 11-25-2011, 08:39 PM
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Yah that looks about right with a 1.62 min. throw, but off by 2 inches.
You take the minimum throw distance and multiply it by the screen width, but some of throws and charts are in conflict in the same manual.

So 1.62 * 138 inches = 18 feet 8 inches.

Actually, I am guessing the Benq throw charts in the manual disagreed with the throw ratio itself by 1-2 inches, which is probably why my calculator said 18 ft 10 inches, but I'm not sure as I do not remember.


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post #368 of 421 Old 11-25-2011, 08:45 PM
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Are you going to be adding the new Acer 9500 to your calculator? I may just get the w7000 anyway and mask my screen.
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post #369 of 421 Old 11-26-2011, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

The Miits manual says keystone correction does not work in 3d mode and if you have keystone correction set in, it defaults to no keystone correction. Tilting is a fine option.

On my current projector I have to deal with the keystone turning off with 3d content, but it's not the end of the world. On my 2.35 screen, I just zoom a tiny bit more on scope content, and on 16:9 I use my manual masks to block the overspill caused by keystone being turned off. Both the screen, and the masks do a great job of hiding the offcenter stuff I don't want to see.
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post #370 of 421 Old 11-26-2011, 07:11 AM
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@ Coderguy, one last question about your calculator along with the vertical range. Where in the calculator using the v-shift slider is the ideal position? As you incicate the min and max v-shift, I am assuming when the slider is in the middle is what were after??
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post #371 of 421 Old 11-26-2011, 07:23 AM
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Yah, the middle is the default offset using zero lens shift, and just remember 16.5% of 16:9 diagonal is always the default offset for placement with no lens shift, for 2.35 it's 17.5% of diagonal.


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post #372 of 421 Old 11-26-2011, 08:25 AM
 
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If you look at the charts for offset in the manual, which list a variety of screen size diagonals with corresponding heights and widths, the 0 offset point is not exactly in the center of the offset range, close though. This might be just a rounding error as a lens is round and the offset range should be a plus and minus from lens center.
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post #373 of 421 Old 11-26-2011, 08:35 AM
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Yup, I'm not sure what to trust in manuals, they often give two conflicting sets of info (one for % and one for charts), and it frustrates me.


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post #374 of 421 Old 11-26-2011, 01:05 PM
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New Minor Update of Calculator Released - Beta 02.1

Fixes Minor 2.35 Offset Bug and several rounding issues like throw ratio rounding

Complete Details Here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21261765


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post #375 of 421 Old 11-29-2011, 06:30 AM
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Any news
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post #376 of 421 Old 11-29-2011, 01:40 PM
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cine4home.de updated their HC7800D page: first impressions about brightness, color, 3D and 2D performance with a pre-production model. Not enough to be thorough, but enough to confirm between 200-300 lumens (about 20% of 1500 lumens) behind 3d glasses.

No word on first deliveries.
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post #377 of 421 Old 11-29-2011, 02:48 PM
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I still haven't seen numbers for best mode on the hc7800, has anyone?

Cine4 gave the brightest mode numbers, but I didn't see any best mode numbers.

The way I made the numbers in my calculator, was I took the hc4000's best mode and increased it by about 30% to 40%. The numbers I have for it are very rough at best.


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post #378 of 421 Old 11-30-2011, 06:50 PM
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Quoted from the article via Google translate:

"Color wheel pictured above is currently the most common variant (according to manufacturer's instructions in the previous HC7800) and is called "RGBRGB" color wheel. Without additional engine speed increase, it doubles the rate base colors. In the above-described two-time engine speed is reached such an RGB sequence four times per video frame (100 rpm x 2 segments / Color = 4 x 200 Hz = 50 Hz). The frequency for each primary color is 200Hz, the overall frequency of 600Hz. This rate is already so high that many viewers do not perceive the rainbow effect is more than disturbing. Particularly fast versions work with "5-fold" color wheel, ie 250Hz (or 300Hz for NTSC)."

Anyone have any thoughts on whether this is an improvement over the hc4000 as far as eye strain or rainbow effect goes?
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post #379 of 421 Old 11-30-2011, 06:52 PM
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Same general RBE effect as Mits hc4000.


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post #380 of 421 Old 12-01-2011, 06:25 AM
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Just found this paragraph on the projector central, we are getting close! Also I talked with the main distributor of Mits projectors here in Canada. The last word they had for release here is December 12th.


"The Mitsubishi HC7800 has just arrived. We did not want to hold the 5010 review any longer, but our review of the HC7800 will include comparisons to both the Panasonic AE7000 and the Epson 5010. You can look for that review near the end of next week."

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post #381 of 421 Old 12-03-2011, 06:48 AM
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I had a Panny AE7000 installed in my conference room and have been playing around with it. It's making me debate on whether replace my plasma with a projector. The AE7000, Mits 7800 and JVC RS45 are all the ones I like. One of the things that concern me with all the active 3d projectors is the light loss. Mits has this info in their 7800 brochure about a new type of glasses that decrease the light loss. They claim to have a high speed shutter 10x faster than other glasses. It makes them real thick. It that just a marketing ploy, or are they on to something?

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post #382 of 421 Old 12-03-2011, 09:18 AM
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We should know more about how the glasses preform soon. As already mentioned, Projector Central is working on a review now and expects to have it posted by the end of next week.
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post #383 of 421 Old 12-03-2011, 09:41 AM
 
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Obviously the faster the glasses open and the longer the fully open time for the closed to open to close cycle. This could be used to lessen ghosting with the same fully open time as before or could be used to increase brightness with no change in ghosting because of a longer fully open time. The issue is how much does a speed increase affect things. Usually glasses improvements from year to year are rather incremental.
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post #384 of 421 Old 12-06-2011, 07:48 AM
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Does anyone speak German? The Germans posted the first video review of what I assume to be a production model of HC7800 (It came in a retail box):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiUDebcNReE

22 mins in 720p
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post #385 of 421 Old 12-07-2011, 05:34 AM
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Yes I do, but don't have the time to translate :-)

Retail boxes will arrive at the end of this week here in germany, one of the two guys is from Mitsubishi Germany and confirmed it in the video.

Otherwise they are going through some of the menu's of the projector and the other "new" features like lens shift/zoom factor etc.

Let's wait for some retail reviews on this interesting projector.
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post #386 of 421 Old 12-07-2011, 07:12 AM
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First impressions from a French forum. I swear this is my last translation lol.

http://translate.google.ca/translate...prmd%3Dimvnsfd
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post #387 of 421 Old 12-07-2011, 08:47 PM
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Just saw it in action at Big Picture People here in Australia.

They were only playing half sbs material but I thought it looked pretty good.

Didn't see any flicker at all.

Minimal loss in brightness behind the glasses, I have no actual measurements I can give but it felt like bugger all.

The glasses felt comfortable over my prescription specs.

The guy who showed me the projector was unaware it did 2D to 3D conversion until I told him. I watched a snippet of the battle at Minas Tirith from ROTK at the highest depth setting and I thought it did a pretty good job, definitely added a little something extra to the experience.

FYI I didn't compare it to anything else, I might have had a look at the JVC X30 for a 3D comparison if they actually had it in stock but they don't get them until next year.

I was told the Mits will be in stock on the 16th for those of us in Aus.
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post #388 of 421 Old 12-07-2011, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabnoodle View Post

Just saw it in action at Big Picture People here in Australia.

They were only playing half sbs material but I thought it looked pretty good.

Didn't see any flicker at all.

Minimal loss in brightness behind the glasses, I have no actual measurements I can give but it felt like bugger all.

The glasses felt comfortable over my prescription specs.

The guy who showed me the projector was unaware it did 2D to 3D conversion until I told him. I watched a snippet of the battle at Minas Tirith from ROTK at the highest depth setting and I thought it did a pretty good job, definitely added a little something extra to the experience.

FYI I didn't compare it to anything else, I might have had a look at the JVC X30 for a 3D comparison if they actually had it in stock but they don't get them until next year.

I was told the Mits will be in stock on the 16th for those of us in Aus.

Nice! Which store/state was that in? I still really want to see this thing, but I've pretty much canned the idea - I work for a company that does AV stuff and despite being a Mits dealer the buy price of the Optoma HD83 is nearly $2000 cheaper. The mits package did include 4 pairs of glasses though.
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post #389 of 421 Old 12-07-2011, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrtute View Post

Nice! Which store/state was that in? I still really want to see this thing, but I've pretty much canned the idea - I work for a company that does AV stuff and despite being a Mits dealer the buy price of the Optoma HD83 is nearly $2000 cheaper. The mits package did include 4 pairs of glasses though.

Hoppers Crossing, VIC
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post #390 of 421 Old 12-08-2011, 05:15 PM
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From ProjectorCentral:
I realize that everyone is anxious to see the Mitsubishi HC7800 review, so it is no fun to have to announce a delay...

The review sample HC7800 we received (at our request) is a late stage pre-production unit, which at the time we requested it was anticipated to be available several weeks before production samples. We look at pre-production samples under one condition: if we see an issue in the pre-production sample that the vendor says is resolved in production units, then we want to see a sample of the production unit before going to press. And that is what we have happening at the moment. The good news is that Mitsubishi has just confirmed this morning that a production sample HC7800 can be delivered to us on Tuesday.

So despite the disappointment that you and I both feel that we can't meet our anticipated pub date on this review, it would be best if we push this back a few days. I will be able to tell you more on Tuesday once we have seen the production sample.
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