release date for Epson Home Cinema 61000 Projector - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 318 Old 09-25-2011, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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hi i read somewhere that the Epson Home Cinema 61000 Projector will be released this year for around $5000 but i see that it has been released in 2010..is this true
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post #2 of 318 Old 09-25-2011, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymondeast View Post

hi i read somewhere that the Epson Home Cinema 61000 Projector will be released this year for around $5000 but i see that it has been released in 2010..is this true

Not exactly... The 61000 was announced along with the 21000/31000 models at the 2010 CEDIA, but none of them were released. Epson again announced and showed the 61000 at the 2011 CEDIA show a few weeks ago. They plan to release the 61000 this year, sometime before Christmas, with an MSRP of $6,999. Street price has yet to be decided.

The 21000/31000 projectors have been canned for now.

Here is a little more info on the 61000: The Art of Home Theater Projectors: Epson 61000

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post #3 of 318 Old 09-25-2011, 04:01 PM
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Are you sure that msrp is correct? I thought the epson rep at CEDIA said it would be less than $5k?
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post #4 of 318 Old 09-25-2011, 04:08 PM
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post #5 of 318 Old 09-25-2011, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by steve21 View Post

Are you sure that msrp is correct? I thought the epson rep at CEDIA said it would be less than $5k?

I got the $6,999 MSRP from Projector Central.

There was a quote on Projectorreviews.com that said, "Pricing of Epson's Pro Cinema 61000, Epson says will be under $5000″. Epson often doesn't finalize pricing until right before shipping (like many) because they all like to see what the competition's priced at."

The bottom line is that pricing has not been officially decided yet on the 61000.

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post #6 of 318 Old 09-25-2011, 06:01 PM
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I have a feeling the PC price was from 2010, but as you say nothing has been officially announced. If it's only $1k more than the rs45 and offers a working full CMS, a solid DI and the same CFI from previous models then i think it will be hard to look over.
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post #7 of 318 Old 09-25-2011, 07:55 PM
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We were told under $5,000 at CEDIA, so I imagine the $6,999 price is a remnant of CEDIA 2010.

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post #8 of 318 Old 09-25-2011, 09:36 PM
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I had a long talk by phone with the noted THX calibrator Epson hired to set up and present the machine at Cedia. Obviously, he is a hired gun, but a good one. He affirmed release by the end of the 4th quarter with a price of under $5K. Didn't specify whether that was a MSRP or MAP.

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post #9 of 318 Old 09-26-2011, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I had a long talk by phome with the noted THX calibrator Epson hired to set up and present the machine at Cedia. Obviously, he is a hired gun, but a good one. He affirmed release by the end of the 4th quarter with a price of under $5K. Didn't specify whether that was a MSRP or MAP.

Thanks Mark, good to know
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post #10 of 318 Old 09-26-2011, 04:41 PM
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Granted, the 61000 will be a very capable projector with a CMS. However, I think it is highly unlikely that Epson will price their top of the line, new LCD-R technology projector to compete with the "entry-level" JVC RS45. I think the 61000 will be more like $1,500 above the RS45.

At that price, you still will not have comparable native CR to ANY of the JVC projectors. Cine4home reported native CR of 25,000:1 for the European version of the 61000. The "entry level" JVC RS45 has double that native CR at 50,000:1. And you could easily pick up a video processor for the RS45 later, if you really wanted absolute CMS performance, and probably still be under the cost of the 61000.

Lumen output should be similar after calibration, however the RS45 might have a small lead here, too, if Rod Sterling, JVC's Chief Engineer is to be believed. Preliminary reports are that we can expect close to 1000 lumens from the RS45 after calibration this year. The 61000 measured 950 lumens after calibration in the Cine4home tests. (Official published numbers are 1200 lumens for the 61000 and 1300 lumens for the RS45.)

Again, all of these numbers and street prices have yet to be announced, measured, and confirmed in a head-2-head shootout - so don't take any of this information as absolute gospel just yet!

FAIR WARNING: I could be wrong. This is just how I am analyzing this situation right now, and in the interest of full disclosure, I have already placed my order for a JVC RS45. I'm looking forward to having it before Christmas.

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post #11 of 318 Old 09-26-2011, 04:52 PM
 
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I think they have to compete with the JVC's entry level model not on 2D performance but JVCs entry has 3D and the Epson doesn't.
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post #12 of 318 Old 09-26-2011, 05:00 PM
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Haha don't worry i won't take offence because you prefer one over another. I don't have any loyalty or preference, i just get whatever is best for my needs atthe time and you've come at your decision by doing the same thing. Not everyone has time to read and gather all the info so stating your preference (and why you arrived at it) really does help me out.

Zooming for 2.35:1 means i need lots of lumens, so it's certainly a consideration.
I did demo the rs40 but they were having issues with it. The pucture kept turnung red, and switching on the jvc version of CFI seemed to exaggerate it. Very strange. But when it wasn't misbehaving it looked good.
Also demoed the Sony vw90es which looked great but it was a bad demo environment. I also saw a lot of flickering in brighter scenes (2d) which the sales guy said might be the cables.
Basically it's hard to get a good demo so i tend to learn more from viewing the forums than by viewing demo units unfortunately.
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post #13 of 318 Old 09-27-2011, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

Granted, the 61000 will be a very capable projector with a CMS. However, I think it is highly unlikely that Epson will price their top of the line, new LCD-R technology projector to compete with the "entry-level" JVC RS45. I think the 61000 will be more like $1,500 above the RS45.

At that price, you still will not have comparable native CR to ANY of the JVC projectors. Cine4home reported native CR of 25,000:1 for the European version of the 61000. The "entry level" JVC RS45 has double that native CR at 50,000:1. And you could easily pick up a video processor for the RS45 later, if you really wanted absolute CMS performance, and probably still be under the cost of the 61000.

Lumen output should be similar after calibration, however the RS45 might have a small lead here, too, if Rod Sterling, JVC's Chief Engineer is to be believed. Preliminary reports are that we can expect close to 1000 lumens from the RS45 after calibration this year. The 61000 measured 950 lumens after calibration in the Cine4home tests. (Official published numbers are 1200 lumens for the 61000 and 1300 lumens for the RS45.)

Again, all of these numbers and street prices have yet to be announced, measured, and confirmed in a head-2-head shootout - so don't take any of this information as absolute gospel just yet!

FAIR WARNING: I could be wrong. This is just how I am analyzing this situation right now, and in the interest of full disclosure, I have already placed my order for a JVC RS45. I'm looking forward to having it before Christmas.

Your CR comparison is apples-to-oranges. The measured CR of about 25,000:1 for the Epson prototype cannot be compared to the spec'ed (max. possible) CR for the JVC since that JVC spec. is for the iris closed down to max. extent and the zoom set for longest throw distance (and that combination also produces the lowest light output from the projector). With the JVC configured in a more reasonable mode for a bright image it's CR is around 25,000:1 (similar to that of the prototype Epson measured by cine4home) and when you set the JVC for max. light output in a calibrated mode (iris fully open and with lens set for short throw distance) the CR is about 20,000:1.

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post #14 of 318 Old 09-27-2011, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

The measured CR of about 25,000:1 for the Epson prototype cannot be compared to the spec'ed (max. possible) CR for the JVC since that JVC spec. is for the iris closed down to max. extent and the zoom set for longest throw distance (and that combination also produces the lowest light output from the projector).

Isn't that the same way the Epson was measured?

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post #15 of 318 Old 09-27-2011, 12:59 PM
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Ron, that is exactly what I was thinking. While the JVC's can put up unmatched native contrast numbers, you have to take into account light output levels. They must be matched in order for the contrast comparison to be truly valid...

would be interesting in knowing under what conditions the Epson prototype was measured, though...
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post #16 of 318 Old 09-27-2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Isn't that the same way the Epson was measured?

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Originally Posted by conradjohnsonfan View Post

Ron, that is exactly what I was thinking. While the JVC's can put up unmatched native contrast numbers, you have to take into account light output levels. They must be matched in order for the contrast comparison to be truly valid...

would be interesting in knowing under what conditions the Epson prototype was measured, though...

Noah - No - cine4home preview of the Epson stated (google translated into English is below) says the measured 25,000:1 was with the iris fully open. This is similar to the JVC CR with its iris fully open (but about 1/2 of JVC spec'ed max. CR value which can only be reached with the iris closed down and the lens set for max. throw distance).
The above values ​​were determined in open iris lens and remains the big question, to which the contrast projectors here are capable of? Definitive statements can not unfortunately to be taken as the prototypes in hand-assembled "wire grid" nature can not be adjusted accurately to the micrometer. The following details are to be understood only as preliminary, but they can already be seen: In the open-iris optics R4000 reached the prototype of around 25,000:1 native contrast, which ensures a very high Inbildkontrast and the SXRD Sony technology already in this first generation leaves behind. Closes the iris in the optics, up to 20 steps are available here, this can be increased native contrast by stray light filtering up to 35000:1. However, this is paid for with a loss of light, then left around 500 lumens calibrated yet, but what will still not be classified as dark. It's not clear in the review how the zoom was set but it appears to probably have been set for shortest throw distant to support their max. lumens measurement. If that's the case then closing down the iris plus setting the zoom for max. throw distance would perhaps have increased the Epson's CR to something near the max. value possible with the JVC RS45. By the way I own a RS40 that I'm happy with, but I've also seen the Epson pre-production version they had a CEDIA earlier this month and it's black levels looked impressive.

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post #17 of 318 Old 09-27-2011, 01:51 PM
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Yes, no doubt the Epson 61000 will be an impressive machine.

However it remains to be seen whether the cost difference between the 61000 and the JVC RS45 is justified. The cost difference is likely to be significant, IMHO.

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post #18 of 318 Old 09-27-2011, 03:13 PM
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Thanks for the clarification, Ron.

I forget, have there been comments on the Epson's motion handling, i.e. is it better like SXRD or not so great like DILA (at least on my pre-CMD RS10)?

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post #19 of 318 Old 09-28-2011, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Thanks for the clarification, Ron.

I forget, have there been comments on the Epson's motion handling, i.e. is it better like SXRD or not so great like DILA (at least on my pre-CMD RS10)?

We probably won't know what the motion handling performance of the 61000 will be until there are actual production units available. For me I have no issue with the non-FI motion handling on my RS40 as compared to other digital projectors (I also own DLP and LCD). I'm specifically talking about loss of resolution for objects in motion and not other sorts of digital artifacts. I suspect this may be more of an issue for gamers. I say this because the vast majority of movie/video source material has a major loss of resolution for anything in motion. You see this all the time in the movie theater as well as on consumer HDTVs. Just play a Blu-ray movie and then pause the video during a fast motion sequence and you will likely see the objects in motion are blurred and for live action this was as it was captured by the camera. I saw a presentation years ago by a person from ILM where they talked about when doing CGI the need to blur objects in motion so they would appear more realistic (i.e., look more like live action shot on film). Using FI can sharpen up some of the motion images, but many don't like the side effects of using FI.

So if you are going to evaluate resolution loss during fact motion with any projector, you should first check to see just how clear the individual video frames are in the source material.

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post #20 of 318 Old 11-25-2011, 08:27 PM
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I wonder if this unit will come out this quarter?
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post #21 of 318 Old 11-25-2011, 10:08 PM
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I wonder if this unit will come out this quarter?

I can't get any info at all on the 61000. I contacted several Epson home theater dealers near me and none of them have heard a word. There is NOTHING on the internet about a release date or any sign of life. Other than a dated manual, there is nothing from Epson on this projector. I was hoping to have the 61000 as an option before the end of the year, but it's not looking hopeful.
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post #22 of 318 Old 11-27-2011, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I had a long talk by phone with the noted THX calibrator Epson hired to set up and present the machine at Cedia. Obviously, he is a hired gun, but a good one. He affirmed release by the end of the 4th quarter with a price of under $5K. Didn't specify whether that was a MSRP or MAP.

4th quarter of 2012?
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post #23 of 318 Old 11-27-2011, 06:43 PM
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I sent a letter to the pre-sales department of Epson American based in California. We'll see if I get a response. I wish I had contact information for Jason Palmer or some other rep. I'd like to know one way or the other if the 61000 is being released this year so I CAN MAKE A DECISION.

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post #24 of 318 Old 11-28-2011, 06:33 AM
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I'd like to hear that answer too, either on the 31000 or the 61000. Sh!t or get off the pot as they say.

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post #25 of 318 Old 11-28-2011, 12:22 PM
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I'd like to hear that answer too, either on the 31000 or the 61000. Sh!t or get off the pot as they say.

I really don't know what you are expecting Epson to say. They said Q4 and it's still Q4 now. I imagine they are trying to make that date of course and for all I know they will. If they can't I wouldn't expect an update until after the holidays as doing that would cost them sales. I'd wait until they miss Q4 to complain, though, as that's the only date they gave anyone. Oh and there is no more 31000, only the 61000.

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post #26 of 318 Old 11-28-2011, 03:36 PM
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No More 31000, did they just say that? As far as the dealer I've been talking to in Canada, Epson(Canada) still says there is a 31000. Yes you are right it is still Q4, can't really complain until January and then of course it does no good anyway to compalin as it is what it is.

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No More 31000, did they just say that? As far as the dealer I've been talking to in Canada, Epson(Canada) still says there is a 31000. Yes you are right it is still Q4, can't really complain until January and then of course it does no good anyway to compalin as it is what it is.

My understanding is that there is no more 21000. There were initially three models - the 21000, 31000 and 61000. They dropped the 21000 for sure, but I haven't heard they also dropped the 31000. If they are having production problems, however, they may only have enough chips for one model, so maybe the 61000 is the only one being released. That would need to be confirmed.
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post #28 of 318 Old 11-28-2011, 04:48 PM
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My dealer told me the 21000 had been dropped. They still have the 31000/61000 on their site for a preorder. But who knows maybe they dropped the 31000 too, I hope not. The user manual says 31000/61000 on the front but I suppose that doesn't mean much.

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post #29 of 318 Old 11-28-2011, 05:18 PM
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CEDIA didn't feature any mention of the 31000, and in the demo of the 61000 they discussed it as being the only Reflective LCD model coming out. Perhaps they meant to say the only one this year, but there was no mention or picture of the 31000 anywhere at CEDIA.

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post #30 of 318 Old 11-28-2011, 05:23 PM
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Interesting. I just got an email from the dealer and he says" AFAIK it's coming out later this month". I guess we wait and see.

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