OWNERS Thread for the Panasonic PT-AE7000U 3D Projector - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 04:38 PM
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xamphear, thanks and I did read your post. But the lag was more of a secondary quesiton. What I'm really interested in is the processing of small changes in image in a video game. It seems that a lot of displays will create a nice sharp image while still, but then when you move, the processing can't keep up and you see fuzzing in the distance objects. More static images in the foreground stay nice and sharp. i guess this would imply that a display that does it can't handle the live interpolation.

I was wondering if gamers were seeing this on the 7000

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post #362 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wovenlore View Post

xamphear, thanks and I did read your post. But the lag was more of a secondary quesiton. What I'm really interested in is the processing of small changes in image in a video game. It seems that a lot of displays will create a nice sharp image while still, but then when you move, the processing can't keep up and you see fuzzing in the distance objects. More static images in the foreground stay nice and sharp. i guess this would imply that a display that does it can't handle the live interpolation.

I was wondering if gamers were seeing this on the 7000

With frame creation off, it looks sharper than my AE4000 did. I can't compare it to a DLP projector or an LCD direct view display, because I haven't owned either of those devices in ages. Plus, a lot of the blur is down to the game's engine itself, the actual framerate it's putting out (60? 30fps? less than 30?), and if there's any motion blur used.

With frame creation on (a possibility for games now that the total lag is less than 100ms, with the AE4000 the lag on frame creation was so bad it was unusable for games) it's incredibly sharp, even during rapid pans. There is some artifacting around static elements such as the HUD and targeting reticule, but it's minor and doesn't bother me. If I pan the view fast enough, it does blur, but that could be the game's own engine either failing to draw the frames fast enough or adding a motion blur to compensate for something it knows the game/hardware is incapable of doing. Or it could be the frame creation reaching a limit where the difference between the two frames is simply too much to interpolate sharply.

What I can tell you for certain is that I put frame creation on mode 3 when I got the projector and I haven't turned it off since. It just looks incredibly smooth and sharp. I played some Ico and Shadow of the Colossus in 3D, and they looked awesome. Mostly however I've been trying to finish up the last DLC pack for Fallout: New Vegas. Between the added contrast and color detail and the frame creation mode, it looked good enough that my wife even mentioned it on her own initiative; no "doesn't this look better?!" prompting required.

The drawback here is that all the words in the world can't tell you what it would look like to your eyes, and there's no way to capture it in an image or video, either. If you can, demo the AE7000 and see what you think.
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post #363 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey P View Post

I've been trying to find this out as well. I wanted to know if anyone compared the XpanD x103 to the Panasonic 3rd gen with this projector. I just ordered the XpanD because the panasonics are out of stock everywhere except that Ebay dealer mentioned.
You could use the 2D to 3D feature for now, though a bit of a strain.

The 3rd gen pan glasses are better than the xban as they (SEEM) brighter and way lighter and comfortable I just only tried them out via my 50" plasma I will know better tomorrow but so far the pan glasses kick ass!
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post #364 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey P View Post

Have you really seen this option enabled while in 3D? I'm pretty sure 3D mode turns it OFF.

Auto 3D mode (frame packed HDMI 1.4 3D) allows for the use of all 3 Frame Creation modes. I don't know about 2D->3D conversion or SBS 3D, I didn't check those. 3D content in Normal mode with frame creation on really does look like nothing else I've seen.

Update:

Frame creation DOES NOT work in 2D->3D mode.
Frame creation DOES work in SBS 3D mode.
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post #365 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 06:49 PM
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xamphear, words may not be able to do it... but you've made me more confident. I think I'll be getting the 7k assuming I can get my hands on one. Thanks for your in-depth description.

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post #366 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

Best projector I have ever seen sub-$10k.

We have literally had our breath taken away by the incredible way it handles motion.

The mode 3 frame interpolation is so real it will drop your jaw.

If you like a movie like Transformers 3, and have your PT-AE7000 paired with high end receiver (SC-57 in our case) and have big LFE, the scene where the building breaks in half will simply make you gasp out loud.

The only JVC I can compare it to right now is an RS-15 at my neighbors, but it is so much better OVERALL than the JVC no human could watch that transformers scene on both and not CLEARLY see the PT-AE7000 is vastly superior. That goes also for my aborted attempt to own a RS-40 that had severe quality control issues. This projector is leaps and bounds better than the JVC RS-40 I had.

You don't really notice how much the JVC chokes on motion until you watch scenes like the end of XMEN: the last stand, where jean gray is using CGI powers to rend apart a military base and turn people into shards of glass.

If you just watch those types of scenes on a JVC you truly don't understand the realism the 480Hz panels with mode 3 frame interpolation brings.

It is like looking out a window, not at a screen. The stutters, judders, tiny gaps, and blurs in movement are no longer perceptible to the human eye on the PT-AE7000.

You really don't understand what you are missing until you see it. The frame interpolation is so good the motion IS REAL. You are not watching film anymore, you are watching reality.

The JVC may win in one specific scene set up for it to show it can have better contrast in a rare situation.

However, the Panasonic will make you literally gasp out loud.

The last time a projector made me catch my breath was visiting a friend and seeing a 3-chip DLP RUNCO light cannon (that cost him about $50k).

set up:
PT-AE7000
Pioneer SC-57 receiver
Ascend Acoustic Sierras and CMT-340s plus a HSU 350 watt 12" LFE for 7.1
OPPO BDP-93
PS3 #1
PS3 #2
XBOX 360 ELITE
HTPC server
Ipad2 remote APP
160" DA-LITE 2.8 HIGH POWER custom motorized screen

P.S. - Anyone want to buy a white glove OPPO BDP-83? send me a PM.

TLDR - DO NOT WAIT FOR JVC - the best can be bought right now for LESS THAN $3,000. The motion is so incredible nothing else can be considered IMHO. They have narrowed the gap on contrast and blacks so much most people will find any difference imperceptible. But the motion - OH MY!

ALSO - the MODE 3 480HZ interpolation WORKS IN 3D. Making it the best 3D I have ever seen, as good as DLP, and if you can find a pair of the GEN 3 Panasonic 3D glasses (now sold out everywhere check Ebay) - you will get the brightest biggest 3D picture with ZERO crosstalk or motion issues. Throw on dynamic mode and watch 3D at 160" VERY BRIGHT!

Best projector I have ever owned, and I upgrade constantly everything, and also have friends who can afford the very very high end ($200,000.00 home theaters - they are going to be very surprised at what this sub-$3,000 machine will do)

Thanks Panny!!

Wow!!!

After reading your post, I just ordered two of those!

Stef
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post #367 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 07:21 PM
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Wow!!!

After reading your post, I just ordered two of those!
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Can I have the unused one?
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post #368 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 07:50 PM
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I was really unimpressed by the 3D performance of some of the SBS content I downloaded until I tried the 3D Viewing Monitor setting. You can freeze the image and then press up and down until the crosstalk disappears. Pretty slick.

So the lesson is, if you load up some 3D content and are getting any crosstalk, use the balance setting to fix it. The balance setting isn't saved between sessions, so don't worry about having to remember to go back in and reset it.
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post #369 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post

Wow!!!

After reading your post, I just ordered two of those!

While the Panny I'm sure is a great projector, I'd take anything Krinkle says with a grain of salt, especially when discussing anything involving a JVC projector
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post #370 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xamphear View Post

I was really unimpressed by the 3D performance of some of the SBS content I downloaded until I tried the 3D picture balance setting. A couple button presses on the remote later and it looked as good as full HD HDMI 3D (minus a bit of resolution, of course).

So the lesson is, if you load up some 3D content and are getting any crosstalk, use the balance setting to fix it. The balance setting isn't saved between sessions, so don't worry about having to remember to go back in and reset it.

Maybe a stupid question but what is SBS 3d content? I dont know all the abbreviations.

Thanks
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post #371 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wovenlore View Post

xamphear, thanks and I did read your post. But the lag was more of a secondary quesiton. What I'm really interested in is the processing of small changes in image in a video game. It seems that a lot of displays will create a nice sharp image while still, but then when you move, the processing can't keep up and you see fuzzing in the distance objects. More static images in the foreground stay nice and sharp. i guess this would imply that a display that does it can't handle the live interpolation.

I was wondering if gamers were seeing this on the 7000

WIthout a doubt frame creation is 100% OFF during any gaming mode. Any frame creation requires look ahead and behind on the frames to determine movement vectors. This introduces lag.

Speaker design is rather an art. There is no such thing as the perfect painting. Likewise there is no such thing as a perfect speaker. It's part science and part personal preference.
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post #372 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DigitalGriffin View Post

WIthout a doubt frame creation is 100% OFF during any gaming mode. Any frame creation requires look ahead and behind on the frames to determine movement vectors. This introduces lag.

I've covered this in previous posts. The lag when using frame creation is only ~10-20ms more than not using it. That's on the edge of being able to even perceive it.
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post #373 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Randito3 View Post

Maybe a stupid question but what is SBS 3d content? I dont know all the abbreviations.

Thanks

Side by Side. It's a way of broadcasting/storing 3D content by putting each eye's perspective as half of a 1080p image. The display device cuts the image in half, stretches and then alternates the two as it would for a full HD frame-packed 3D stream.
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post #374 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 08:51 PM
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Wow comparing this to a 3 LCD runco is a pretty high standard . I seen the runco at a shop and was amazed. Hopefully I can view the panny in person some time soon
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post #375 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xamphear View Post


Auto 3D mode (frame packed HDMI 1.4 3D) allows for the use of all 3 Frame Creation modes.

Yes indeed! I first thought it was turned off because it was disabled in the main Picture menu. Now I realize you have to hit the separate Picture Adjust button and you can adjust it at the bottom of the screen. Amazing. With that and setting to Dynamic and adjusting Brightness and Contrast, the picture is incredibly bright and smooth. Yikes!
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post #376 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 09:28 PM
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My 7000 came in today.. after the wife and kids hit the hay, I ripped it out of the box.. first I sat it on the floor and projected it on a 2 foot foam poster board about 3 feet away.. then I set it on my coffee table and threw a wrinkled white sheet over my dying Mitsubishi WD-62725 DLP and started projecting on that.. took me a minute to realize I needed to use the "joystick" to aim the lens.. yah yah.. it's my first projector!

Anyway, the image, even on a VERY wrinkled sheet dangling off of my TV is far superior than the current image of my dying TV.

I may have to bust out the iron to sustain myself until next weekend when I get some help building my DIY screen.. I'm leaning towards the 16:9 format, as I watch 80%+ in that format.

Oh yah, and the 3D IR blasting does make my Niles IR repeater go nuts.. blinking like crazy (under the sheet).. I was able to hit MUTE pretty easily on my pre-amp remote.. but volume up/down was a bit brutal.. The IR signal is definitely getting jammed quite a bit.
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post #377 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 09:29 PM
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IR Update:

Installed my new Vista Acoustic IR receiver and can at least get sporadic control of my AV equipment.

I played with trying to attach a "blinder" to the side of the projector to help shield it from hitting my IR receiver. It needed to stick out about 12" in front in order to be effective. It did not interfere with the picture but it looked pretty odd. The easiest solution for me is to relocate the in wall IR receiver about 4' further away from the screen in order to avoid picking up the projectors IR emitter. Luckily that is easy for me. I think I could actually live with the "blinder" solution if the only other choice was to buy the external Panasonic IR emitter for $200.

NEW 3D Problem.

Now that I've solved my IR issue, I've been able to start playing with the 3D and I am having some serious problems. I only have the Xpand X103 glasses so I don't know if they are the cause or not. They are set for the Panasonic (#4) and I have tried all the other choices with no luck.

My problem is the overlapping 3D images are so far apart they are practically unviewable. I've played with all of the different 3d settings with no permanent solution. The only setting that offers partial correction is the 3D Viewing Monitor.

Using this adjustment (both live and with a frozen screen) I am able to briefly get a portion of the screen to look right in 3D. Usually it is a trade off between the center of the screen and the bottom 1/3 of the screen being properly aligned. But even when I find a good setting, the same area in the next scene seems to be out of whack again only moments later.

I have bypassed my Onkyo TX-NR809 to check - same problem. I have tried playing the different 3D Blu Rays in both my PS 3 and Panasonic DMP-BDT210 - same problem.

I am running on a 120" screen with the projector set back 15'. The center of the lens is 6" below the top of the viewable screen.

I'm not an AV expert so I'm hoping its some simple setting that I have wrong that is causing my 3D issues.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am loving the 2D pictures for the time being.

All Thrust - No Vector!
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post #378 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post

I found with my 4000 that ceiling mounting resulted in more fan noise than mounting upright on shelf - it seemed like the fan was not happy running upside-down - so I made a shelf hanging from the ceiling for the 4000 and that is how I run the 7000.

All Pannies do this. This is part of the design in that the ceiling gathers heat, and more cooling is required near the ceiling as opposed to a table top nearer the floor. I assume the reviewers run them in table top mode when they claim they are virtually silent, because ceiling mode kicks the fan up quite a bit. My subjective observation would be 1/2 again as loud.

Can someone in ceiling mount mode switch to the high altitude mode and let me know what the perceived difference in fan noise is?

TIA
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post #379 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 09:34 PM
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Can't wait until some more people post some more pics.....even though a camera will never do it's justice love looking at them
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post #380 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJock3315 View Post

IR Update:

Installed my new Vista Acoustic IR receiver and can at least get sporadic control of my AV equipment.

I played with trying to attach a "blinder" to the side of the projector to help shield it from hitting my IR receiver. It needed to stick out about 12" in front in order to be effective. It did not interfere with the picture but it looked pretty odd. The easiest solution for me is to relocate the in wall IR receiver about 4' further away from the screen in order to avoid picking up the projectors IR emitter. Luckily that is easy for me. I think I could actually live with the "blinder" solution if the only other choice was to buy the external Panasonic IR emitter for $200.

NEW 3D Problem.

Now that I've solved my IR issue, I've been able to start playing with the 3D and I am having some serious problems. I only have the Xpand X103 glasses so I don't know if they are the cause or not. They are set for the Panasonic (#4) and I have tried all the other choices with no luck.

My problem is the overlapping 3D images are so far apart they are practically unviewable. I've played with all of the different 3d settings with no permanent solution. The only setting that offers partial correction is the 3D Viewing Monitor.

Using this adjustment (both live and with a frozen screen) I am able to briefly get a portion of the screen to look right in 3D. Usually it is a trade off between the center of the screen and the bottom 1/3 of the screen being properly aligned. But even when I find a good setting, the same area in the next scene seems to be out of whack again only moments later.

I have bypassed my Onkyo TX-NR809 to check - same problem. I have tried playing the different 3D Blu Rays in both my PS 3 and Panasonic DMP-BDT210 - same problem.

I am running on a 120" screen with the projector set back 15'. The center of the lens is 6" below the top of the viewable screen.

I'm not an AV expert so I'm hoping its some simple setting that I have wrong that is causing my 3D issues.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am loving the 2D pictures for the time being.

Hmmm. My projector is 16' from the screen and I sit right about that too and I have no issues with it. I use the Panasonic glasses 3rd generation. Is there anyone close to you that has the Panasonic glasses you can try? I would rule that out first before doing anything else.
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post #381 of 4433 Old 10-06-2011, 11:51 PM
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I have not read the whole thread (which I will tomorrow), but does this new version have an ADJUSTABLE R/B convergence?

I currently own a AE3000 and will not buy another panny unless this feature is implemented or a better customer service policy is in place.
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post #382 of 4433 Old 10-07-2011, 01:15 AM
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There is another complaint about the Xpand glasses with the AE7000 on the JVC V Panasonic thread so assuming glasses are the issue
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post #383 of 4433 Old 10-07-2011, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJock3315 View Post

IR Update:

Installed my new Vista Acoustic IR receiver and can at least get sporadic control of my AV equipment.

I played with trying to attach a "blinder" to the side of the projector to help shield it from hitting my IR receiver. It needed to stick out about 12" in front in order to be effective. It did not interfere with the picture but it looked pretty odd. The easiest solution for me is to relocate the in wall IR receiver about 4' further away from the screen in order to avoid picking up the projectors IR emitter. Luckily that is easy for me. I think I could actually live with the "blinder" solution if the only other choice was to buy the external Panasonic IR emitter for $200.

NEW 3D Problem.

Now that I've solved my IR issue, I've been able to start playing with the 3D and I am having some serious problems. I only have the Xpand X103 glasses so I don't know if they are the cause or not. They are set for the Panasonic (#4) and I have tried all the other choices with no luck.

My problem is the overlapping 3D images are so far apart they are practically unviewable. I've played with all of the different 3d settings with no permanent solution. The only setting that offers partial correction is the 3D Viewing Monitor.

Using this adjustment (both live and with a frozen screen) I am able to briefly get a portion of the screen to look right in 3D. Usually it is a trade off between the center of the screen and the bottom 1/3 of the screen being properly aligned. But even when I find a good setting, the same area in the next scene seems to be out of whack again only moments later.

I have bypassed my Onkyo TX-NR809 to check - same problem. I have tried playing the different 3D Blu Rays in both my PS 3 and Panasonic DMP-BDT210 - same problem.

I am running on a 120" screen with the projector set back 15'. The center of the lens is 6" below the top of the viewable screen.

I'm not an AV expert so I'm hoping its some simple setting that I have wrong that is causing my 3D issues.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am loving the 2D pictures for the time being.

Yes, it is definately the expands 103's as I cannot get them to work with the 7000. 2nd and 3rd generations of the Panny glasses work fine the newest ones being the best. No matter what setting I use on the expands it never displays the image leaving the screen and has some really weird effects on the eyes.
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post #384 of 4433 Old 10-07-2011, 06:12 AM
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What will be great is when someone gets a calibration done on their 7000 and can post their settings and results. Although it changes from projector to projector, it's usually a good starting point.

The major differences between the different modes (Like how Iris functions or Lag varies), frame creation, etc.

From what we've read after cedia and before release, cinema mode was the best to get the best contrast while speeding up the DI and retaining decent lumens, but might still require calibration to match rec color specs.

I'd love to see someone actually do this and post results.
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post #385 of 4433 Old 10-07-2011, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by satboy View Post

Update:

PP replaced it and it will be here tomorrow. Kudos to Miguel and Todd over there for getting it done without too much pain and suffering.

Hopefully the replacement works as it should, I don't think I am going to mount it until I know its working 100%.

I was thinking today what sources I can use for 3D beyond the 3D DVD player? I also picked up a set of panasonic glasses today (ouch on price)

2 questions

What is everyone using for glasses besides the Panasonic ones?
What other sources can be used to output 3D images? I know that my cable provider has an offering but what other options are there?

Well I got the replacment yesterday and have to say this is one awesome projector. I have to say kudos to PP as they took care of the replacing it with little follow up from me. They even sent it overnight which is how I got the first one, most places I have used in the past would have grounded the replacment so I really have nothing but good things to say about PP.

So I had sometime last night to play with the 3D feature which is cool as long as you toss a 3D content at it, I was not impressed with the 2D to 3D as the added glasses I find not worth the hassel. I got a pair of the TY-EW3D3MPK2 which I think is 3rd generation?

I have to better understand the modes and for SBS content I had to manually go into that mode, could be a source issue as it's HDMI 1.3 and not 1.4 but need to research that.

So I am past the Blob issue and was so afraid of the new one having an issue I set it on the floor first for 1 hour before mounting and removing the epson 8350 which I have to note is a good projector for the $ but does not sit in the same class as 7000.

I will post a Picture tonight when I get free time. I have a decent camera with a good lens but as noted in prior posts it's like looking at a TV picture and seeing it live direct, not the same as being there etc.
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post #386 of 4433 Old 10-07-2011, 07:56 AM
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I started a post for this a few days ago no one has gotten around to it yet...i know i havent...i am still navigating the menus on my new Yamaha avetage 3010 along with the new projector.
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post #387 of 4433 Old 10-07-2011, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbawilly View Post

All Pannies do this. This is part of the design in that the ceiling gathers heat, and more cooling is required near the ceiling as opposed to a table top nearer the floor. I assume the reviewers run them in table top mode when they claim they are virtually silent, because ceiling mode kicks the fan up quite a bit. My subjective observation would be 1/2 again as loud.

Can someone in ceiling mount mode switch to the high altitude mode and let me know what the perceived difference in fan noise is?

TIA

I can confirm that changing the display mode to ceiling mount increases the fan volume. It did on my 2000, my 4000 and again on my 7000. The increase in noise isn't all that bad, and it's mitigated by getting it up and behind the viewers. I figured it was either to combat heat rising and having nowhere to go (because there's a ceiling in the way) or because the airflow design of the chassis is less effective inverted horizontally.

Turning on high altitude increases the fan speed even more. Quite a lot more. More than the bump from turning on ceiling mode.
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post #388 of 4433 Old 10-07-2011, 08:52 AM
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Does anyone know if there is a way to switch directly to the different picture modes? (Cinema 1, Normal, Gaming, etc)? I've not had any luck finding discrete codes online or through Harmony/Logitech for this function.

Short of discrete codes, is there anyway to automatically switch to Game mode for my XBOX, Normal when watching 3D content, and Cinema 1 for everything else?

Thanks
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post #389 of 4433 Old 10-07-2011, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bbwebb View Post

Does anyone know if there is a way to switch directly to the different picture modes? (Cinema 1, Normal, Gaming, etc)? I've not had any luck finding discrete codes online or through Harmony/Logitech for this function.

Short of discrete codes, is there anyway to automatically switch to Game mode for my XBOX, Normal when watching 3D content, and Cinema 1 for everything else?

Thanks
Bill

Only discretely via RS-232.
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post #390 of 4433 Old 10-07-2011, 09:31 AM
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Only discretely via RS-232.

How do I use the RS-232 control? I'd like to switch modes like bbwebb mentioned. I have a Logitech Harmony 1100 and Onkyo TXNR3007.

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