OWNERS Thread for the Panasonic PT-AE7000U 3D Projector - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gowgow View Post

James, I wasn't asking anyone in particular, so thanks for the information. I'll need to experiment with that a bit. For me, I didn't notice much ghosting with dynamic mode, but I haven't compared it to cinema 1 or normal. For me, those modes just seem to dim. Have you tried cinema 2?...

If you have Monsters vs Aliens, go to the beginning scene where Susan is preparing for her wedding. When one of the credits appears, pause your player. The credits are a pretty good torture test for ghosting: white text with a thin back border and a fairly wide parallax.

Try out various combinations of Eyewear Brightness settings and Picture Mode settings on the paused image. You will see some profound ghosting in DYNAMIC mode -- the black borders will bleed onto the white text in the opposite eye. It gives the text a crackled appearance.

As I said in my earlier post, it's all a tradeoff. In the current generation of 3D devices you can't have high brightness levels and lack of ghosting (unless you go DLP). I think Panasonic has done an astonishing job evolving 3D technology from the first generation of direct view 3D LCDs and plasmas.

btw, I found CINEMA2 to be quite acceptable for lack of ghosting as well -- probably my second choice next to CINEMA1 for 3D viewing.
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post #542 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chromogenic View Post

Also, I was surprised at how thin the manual is. Does Panasonic provide an explanation of all the different picture modes somewhere? What's "D-Cinema" and "Rec709" for instance? Do they just assume everyone already knows?

I haven't read up on the expanded HDMI setting yet so I can't help you there, but I can tell you the entire manual is on the CD that came in the installation package. That should cover it for you.

All Thrust - No Vector!
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post #543 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 04:22 PM
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What are people using for the 2nd year warranty proof of purchase? The white serial/model number tag hanging through the hole in the large outer box or are you cutting the whole thing out of the inside box itself?

Note, there is essentially two copies of the same thing. One copy is hanging free and be easily torn off at the perforation line and the main one is glued to the carton itself requiring gutting the carton. Does it really matter?
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post #544 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 05:47 PM
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I was wondering if anyone is using this new projector with the Black Diamond 1.4 screen. I am a SI dealer here in NJ and have the AE4000 now that plays really nice with the screen, brightness is a good match and colors pop well. Is the picture on the AE7000 on that screen just as good? The 4000 was actually leaning towards a bit to much contrast so I am wondering if the 7000 is to much. I have a feeling it would work well but just want some conformation before I off the 4000.

Also reworking the layout of the room and thinking about a 235 screen, the zoom would work well for this correct. I have stuck with 16:9 because that is what most customers are fimilar with seeing but wondering if a 235 would have a bigger impact.

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post #545 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesN View Post

If you have Monsters vs Aliens, go to the beginning scene where Susan is preparing for her wedding. When one of the credits appears, pause your player. The credits are a pretty good torture test for ghosting: white text with a thin back border and a fairly wide parallax.

Try out various combinations of Eyewear Brightness settings and Picture Mode settings on the paused image. You will see some profound ghosting in DYNAMIC mode -- the black borders will bleed onto the white text in the opposite eye. It gives the text a crackled appearance.

As I said in my earlier post, it's all a tradeoff. In the current generation of 3D devices you can't have high brightness levels and lack of ghosting (unless you go DLP). I think Panasonic has done an astonishing job evolving 3D technology from the first generation of direct view 3D LCDs and plasmas.

btw, I found CINEMA2 to be quite acceptable for lack of ghosting as well -- probably my second choice next to CINEMA1 for 3D viewing.

I think that the Panny has a 3D adjustment that let's you adjust "ghosting" out of the image while maintaining 3D depth. Would that not allow one to use more brightness without "ghosting?"

Does the FI in 3D mode add something positive to the image?
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post #546 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I think that the Panny has a 3D adjustment that let's you adjust "ghosting" out of the image while maintaining 3D depth. Would that not allow one to use more brightness without "ghosting?"

Does the FI in 3D mode add something positive to the image?

It depends. I haven't experimented with the 7000's 3D adjustment settings yet, but if they reduce ghosting by shifting the parallax (as I suspect), then there are two issues with that approach:

1.) "Correcting" ghosting by altering the parallax just "moves" the problem from one scene to another. Sooner or later you are going to encounter some other scene with high contrast objects and a wide parallax and those scenes are going to ghost (where they may not have before you altered the parallax). Besides...this approach just masks the bigger issue: how well a given display is able to isolate the image intended for one eye from the other. DLPs do this best. Regardless of what anyone thinks about DLPs in other regards, their superiority in lack of ghosting in 3D is unapproachable by any other current consumer technology.

2.) Altering the parallax changes the film makers' original intent in terms of stereoscopic composition. It is akin to pan&scan or colorization. Well maybe not that offensive, but "wrong" nonetheless.
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post #547 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 07:28 PM
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I would be curious if any of the current 7000 owners have the monster vision 3D glasses. I can tune out 99% of cross-talk with these glasses on the HW30 (doesn't work on the slower panel JVC RS50).
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post #548 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesN View Post

It depends. I haven't experimented with the 7000's 3D adjustment settings yet, but if they reduce ghosting by shifting the parallax (as I suspect), then there are two issues with that approach:

1.) "Correcting" ghosting by altering the parallax just "moves" the problem from one scene to another. Sooner or later you are going to encounter some other scene with high contrast objects and a wide parallax and those scenes are going to ghost (where they may not have before you altered the parallax). Besides...this approach just masks the bigger issue: ...

Just sounds like bad encoding to me.

To say there is ghosting implies the panels take longer than 1/480th second to refresh. This is the blanking field time.

Quite frankly that would mean these panels really aren't 480 Hz panels but rather 240->360Hz Hz panels. And I find hard to believe they overblown the specs that much.

No other panels are close to this fast. And because they are so fast, they are the only ones I'm aware of with a blanking frame without significant light loss. This blanking frame is critical as to prevent cross talk.

120's Hz panels can't do it, and 240's will introduce 50% light loss with a blanking frame. 360Hz will introduce a 33% light loss with a blanking frame.

The other possibility is the glass shutters are not working as designed and taking longer to open/close than spec'd.

So in the end: Are you calling BS on Panasonics 480 Hz Epson-D9 panel claim? Or you claiming the 3d glasses are falling short of spec?

Speaker design is rather an art. There is no such thing as the perfect painting. Likewise there is no such thing as a perfect speaker. It's part science and part personal preference.
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post #549 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 07:54 PM
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I don't have any ghosting on any title that I've tried yet. I just tried M vs A and there was no ghosting that me, the wife or her 2 friends could see. using a 1.0 screen and the new panny gen 3 glasses.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #550 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesN View Post

It depends. I haven't experimented with the 7000's 3D adjustment settings yet, but if they reduce ghosting by shifting the parallax (as I suspect), then there are two issues with that approach:

1.) "Correcting" ghosting by altering the parallax just "moves" the problem from one scene to another. Sooner or later you are going to encounter some other scene with high contrast objects and a wide parallax and those scenes are going to ghost (where they may not have before you altered the parallax). Besides...this approach just masks the bigger issue: how well a given display is able to isolate the image intended for one eye from the other. DLPs do this best. Regardless of what anyone thinks about DLPs in other regards, their superiority in lack of ghosting in 3D is unapproachable by any other current consumer technology.

2.) Altering the parallax changes the film makers' original intent in terms of stereoscopic composition. It is akin to pan&scan or colorization. Well maybe not that offensive, but "wrong" nonetheless.

+10

Unless you adjust these settings after every scene/cut in a movie, it's pointless. The ghosting just moves to some other part of the screen. I learned this pretty fast with the Sony 90. Still, by most reports the Pannasonic has the best 3D right now.
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post #551 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 09:18 PM
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Hey guys, can we just skip the animated titles as for the most part they are the easiest to display without ghosting. I mean I could care less about cartoons for 3d anyway except they are a side benefit. I, like James have a RP DLP TV and know what true ghost free 3D looks like. It is just that, ghost free. If you have never seen it then you just do not know. When he says he sees ghosting, then I believe him and for good reason because I have seen ghost free 3d too. Now the question remains is there ghosting in this new tech or is there an equipment problem. I somehow expected issues with the 3d on LCD despite owning an 8350. I am pretty much decided that I am going back to DLP because it has more pop and does 3D right. I was hoping to find out different here but not finding it. No need to wait for Epson either I suppose. The tech sounds good but I am not sure the performance is there. I should have known all along because my TV told me so.

Make no mistakes about what I am talking about here. There is a difference between good 3D and 3D that is flawless as meant to be. There are displays that will give flawless 3D and they have been out for some time now. If you have not seen one you need to. You will never accept anything less. And those displays are DLP units. Hate me if you want. If you do not look at a 3D DLP unit then you do not know what you are missing. Skip the review sites because they would never get another unit if they said it sucked. Great effort, good PJ, minimal ghosting does not equate to flawless 3D.

Bottom line for me, James said he has seen ghosting in most of his 3D movies and he has a similar DLP display to mine, I believe him. He can compare the two and that tells me LCD is not where I want to go for 3D. I mean seriously, except for possible RBE, everyone knows DLP does 3D right don't they. Skip the stupid reviews where they try to downplay DLP 3D and try to say there was some ghosting which we all know was not there. Those sites need to just come out and say that DLP does 3D and LCD tech is trying to do it. I mean for crying out loud, DLP has been doing good 3D for over 2 years now. LCD, still trying.
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post #552 of 4432 Old 10-10-2011, 11:28 PM
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Quote of the week.
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

I should have known all along because my TV told me so.

(Sorry for taking it out of context)

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post #553 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 03:11 AM
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Guys .. There's a 3D tech talk forum.. Can we get back on topic on the owners thread please? If I want to learn about DLP tech (only one example of this thread going off key) I'll explore the 3D tech forum and subscribe to that thread.

Not to intentionally make anyone upset, but I subbed to this thread for users thoughts / opinions about the 7000. I'm subbed to other threads about other PJs so I can make my decision what to blow my cash on lol

Thanks!
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post #554 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 04:09 AM
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Projector Central did a review on the projector, however, I question the statement they made about Rec709 in general and how "Panasonic" has a reason for over saturating their Cinema modes because the industry Rec709 standard is apparently not good enough for a big screen.

Feel free to comment on this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1366060

Founder | BullsEye Calibration | www.bullseyecal.co.nz
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post #555 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 05:33 AM
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I spent a considerable amount of time with this machine this weekend...and the more I watch it the more I absolutely love this projector. I now make time to go and watch 3D programming which is really pretty stunning (Directv). I've demo-ed it for various people and they are all floored at the quality of 3D, my friend said "I hate 3D movies in the theater but I cannot believe the difference between the quality of theater and home..." I am not here to knock any other brand and am not a fanboy of Panasonic...I am a fanboy of QUALITY Imagery, I've owned Sony's, Sanyos, Panasonics and Epsons in the past and I am so happy the technology has jumped so fast in the past 24-36 months...

I do not get too attached to any electronic device because the improvements are coming faster and faster and the price points are dropping... I'm just along for the ride, enjoying my 7000 to the Max!
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post #556 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbuddha View Post

Guys .. There's a 3D tech talk forum.. Can we get back on topic on the owners thread please? If I want to learn about DLP tech (only one example of this thread going off key) I'll explore the 3D tech forum and subscribe to that thread.

How the 7000 does 3D compared to other projectors, including DLP projectors, is extremely relevant to me and I'll bet a lot of others who are interested in the Panasonic. I am currently using a 3D 720p DLP for 3D and I too know what ghost free 3D looks like. Would I actually be upgrading my 3D if I spend the 5 to 7 times as much on the Panasonic? This may not be of concern to some but it sure is to me! I have some real concerns and these, IMO, are valid concerns. When members bought the JVC RS-50 all I heard was how great it did 3D. Now I am hearing that some owners (and some are the same people who originally claimed the RS-50 did great 3D) don't even bother with 3D with it because it is not a particularly pleasant experience. What the hell? So, next year will we be hearing from 7000 owners, who now claim that the 7000 does amazing 3D, only to hear that they're upgrading for better 3D? Members with new toys seem to have a honeymoon period before reality sets in. At some point we'll get to the truth. What's the reviewer's point of reference for 3D? DLP or the Sony and JVC LcOS technology? When someone who's point of reference is DLP 3D I pay attention!
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post #557 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Hey guys, can we just skip the animated titles as for the most part they are the easiest to display without ghosting. I mean I could care less about cartoons for 3d anyway except they are a side benefit. I, like James have a RP DLP TV and know what true ghost free 3D looks like.

Boy the DLP people are coming out of the wood work.

If you read the long and short of my reply about "ghosting", it's quite simply not possible with the Panasonic because of the blanking frame. If it is occuring, it's because the glasses are out of sync. And that is the fault of the glasses, not the projector.

The very reason you DLP guys don't see ghosting is because of a "blanking" frame where the DLP chip reflects nothing.

Enough with the speculation. If you HAVE proof of ghosting, put a video lens up to the 3d glasses lens and run the movie. It will show up on the video camera.

Speaker design is rather an art. There is no such thing as the perfect painting. Likewise there is no such thing as a perfect speaker. It's part science and part personal preference.
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post #558 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 07:28 AM
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Now this I'm looking forward too
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post #559 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGriffin View Post


If you read the long and short of my reply about "ghosting", it's quite simply not possible with the Panasonic because of the blanking frame. If it is occuring, it's because the glasses are out of sync. And that is the fault of the glasses, not the projector.

Obviously the pj can't output l+r simultaneously and assuming syncing is perfect but if the glasses are a little transparent when blocked you would see left frame through blocked right eye, right? How totally opaque are these glasses in their blocked mode?
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post #560 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey P View Post

What are people using for the 2nd year warranty proof of purchase? The white serial/model number tag hanging through the hole in the large outer box or are you cutting the whole thing out of the inside box itself?

Note, there is essentially two copies of the same thing. One copy is hanging free and be easily torn off at the perforation line and the main one is glued to the carton itself requiring cutting the carton. Does it really matter?



I believe it does matter. Cut the one from the inner box that is glued and send it on. Better to be safe than sorry.

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post #561 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 11:48 AM
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Slightly off topic,
Does anyone have the new glasses TY-EW3D3MU?
I was wondering if, and what type of cable they supply for charging the glasses.

Also, has anyone tried the small version for Kids?
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post #562 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 11:56 AM
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ProjectorPeople did send a replacement - it arrived today, they QC'd it, so we'll see tonight...
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post #563 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 12:11 PM
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ProjectorPeople did send a replacement - it arrived today, they QC'd it, so we'll see tonight...

Nice, they're good people - I've really enjoyed buying from them.

Please let us know how things work out for you with the new unit.
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post #564 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I would be curious if any of the current 7000 owners have the monster vision 3D glasses. I can tune out 99% of cross-talk with these glasses on the HW30 (doesn't work on the slower panel JVC RS50).

I have the Monster glasses and they work great with my new 7000. No perceivable ghosting or cross-talk. Also I like that the glasses are RF because the IR blaster definitely plays havoc with my IR repeater at the front of the theater room. Can't use my remote control for anything if the 3D IR emitter is blasting on my screen.
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post #565 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGriffin View Post

Boy the DLP people are coming out of the wood work

...you DLP guys...

So what exactly is a "DLP guy"?

I currently own 3 LCD projectors (one of them the 3D capable 7000), a 3D capable RPTV DLP, a 3D-capable plasma direct view, a 3D-capable passive computer monitor, and various other 2D LCD and CRT direct view displays. How does this make me a "DLP guy"?

Am I not allowed to compare the compare the 3D performance of my 7000 to any other 3D displays with which I have hands-on experience?

For the record, I never speculated why I think the 7000 might be ghosting, I only shared my observation that it does. The cause could well be the glasses. I certainly hope so because that can be easily remedied. (For the record I tried 2 different pairs of 3rd generation Panasonic glasses on various 3DBDs and saw ghosting at some point on every one.)

I hope to conduct further evaluations on the 7000 and the glasses this weekend. I plan on trying the Panasonic glasses with my other 3D displays, as well as other glasses with the 7000. If anyone is interested in my findings, I'd be happy to post them (or shoot me a PM). If not, then I'll go back to the "woodwork".
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post #566 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardOfZo View Post

Slightly off topic,
Does anyone have the new glasses TY-EW3D3MU?
I was wondering if, and what type of cable they supply for charging the glasses.

Also, has anyone tried the small version for Kids?

USB A Male to USB Micro B Male, roughly a meter long.
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post #567 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesN View Post

So what exactly is a "DLP guy"?

Am I not allowed to compare the compare the 3D performance of my 7000 to any other 3D displays with which I have hands-on experience?

By DLP guys, I meant those who own DLP's. No disrespect was intended.

I never said that comparisons weren't allowed. Just that it's unlikely the 3D culprit is the projector panel for the reason I stated.

I'm hoping it's glasses to. Maybe Panasonic got a little too agressive on the eye/open close IR command to maximize light exposure. (ie: broadcasting eye open before blanking frame is done. In this case I could believe cross talk would be present. The same is true for eye close: broadcasting close after the frame blank starts) Simply adjusting the IR output timing would solve the problem. It could also be a response time issue with the glasses. Maybe the LCD polarizers aren't fast enough in the 3rd gen glasses?

Speaker design is rather an art. There is no such thing as the perfect painting. Likewise there is no such thing as a perfect speaker. It's part science and part personal preference.
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post #568 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 12:37 PM
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So apparently Panasonic recalled the new 3rd gen glasses due to syncing issues. PP says they will be shipping again towards the end of October. Kind of a bummer

I did get one pair of Medium glass though and haven't had an issue yet. I think I'll keep them until I have a problem. Sucks we can't watch 3D movies until then though.
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post #569 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoogs View Post

So apparently Panasonic recalled the new 3rd gen glasses due to syncing issues. PP says they will be shipping again towards the end of October. Kind of a bummer

I did get one pair of Medium glass though and haven't had an issue yet. I think I'll keep them until I have a problem. Sucks we can't watch 3D movies until then though.

What?? Do you have a link to the source of this info? Thanks!
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post #570 of 4432 Old 10-11-2011, 12:51 PM
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I have seen a small amount of ghosting with the AE7000U as well, but I usually have to actively look for it and usually only in the background or at the corners of the screen. I have watched Avatar 3D all the way through and after experimenting a bit finally settled on Dynamic with Light for the 3D glasses, though I also have the projector in ECO mode to help reduce fan noise since it is right overhead. This is on a 1.1 gain 96" white screen. I might try experimenting with Normal Lamp mode tonight.

I think this picture mode does contribute to a small amount of ghosting every once in a while, but overall the picture at this setting is bright and beautiful. The motion and sharpness are outstanding with the Mode 3 frame creation. So I am willing to sacrifice a small amount of ghosting for extra brightness. Normal just wasn't bright enough for me in 3D, but maybe it would be if I up the lamp from Eco to Normal. I also tried Dynamic with Normal 3D glass mode, but this was just a tad too dark as well. Those with higher gain screens may have different experiences. As usual YMMV.
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