OWNERS Thread for the Panasonic PT-AE7000U 3D Projector - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Maybe, but I personally haven't written DLP off just yet as most LCOS and LCD fans have.

I was also very interested in seeing how the new crop of 3D DLP projectors fared. Unfortunately their placement inflexibility has ruled them out for me (and I believe a significant portion of the buying market along with me). I would love to have the best of all worlds by having a DLP and LCOS projector as I also watch everything on the big screen. I don't even own a regular TV.

I'm on the pre-order list for an RS45, but I'm not convinced I won't end up with the Sony HW30 (can't justify the VW95) or Panasonic AE7000 instead. For me it's a simple matter of whether the RS45's performance with input lag and 3D crosstalk is good enough to not annoy me. If it's bad enough to be annoying, then the slightly improved black level over the competition is not reason enough to keep it, even if the projector is only annoying a small percentage of the time.

Sorry, this post is a little off-topic for the AE7000 owners thread.

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post #632 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claymic View Post

Krinkle
I bought the oppo bdp-93 to use with AE7000, not only because this player is wonderful , but it also can play 3DBD .iso, i realy enjoy to put every disc in a hard drive. This is the only player that does it.
For control my home with ipod/ipad/iphone i am using the Global Caché unit. The interface you can create with the IRule. Its very nice to control everything you want from any place in your house. The devices can be controlled by RS232, IR and TCP/IP. Its realy very nice and you will not have problems to control the devices when using the 3D, because you will use your network to do that.
The IRule have two version, in the most expensive version you will have feedback from RS-232 or TCP/IP and this will allow you to receive data from the devices. I know when my projetor or my receiver is on for exemple. I can easy switch between the lens memory or picture mode without have to enter in menu too.
Very nice.
Clayton

That's a really cool system! I just read about it and will send you a PM. Thanks.
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post #633 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamerlover View Post

Great...my projector will be here friday and no one has the freaking 3rd gen glasses in stock, even at UNREASONABLE prices...
argh...

I bought two pair today at http://www.paulstv.com/3D-Accessorie...-TYEW3D3MU.asp

The sales guy said they had plenty on hand and would try to get them in the mail today.
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post #634 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

And yet not one post in the RS40 owner's thread despite your massive issues with JVC. Funny that. Only two posts in the RS50 thread and they were talking about how you wouldn't buy a JVC because of convergence issues. One post in the RS20 thread about how glad you are you bought a Panny 3000 instead. Do you honestly expect anybody to believe you actually owned a JVC RS40?

It had never occurred to me that krinkle might being dishonest about owning a JVC RS40, but given that in March of this year he posted that he hadn't bought a projector since 2008 and on August 21st of this year he posted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

I REALLY WANTED A JVC!!

However the above issues kept me from purchasing one
and I am headed towards a DLP upgrade or maybe even EPSON if they finally deliver.

Bottom line - I CANNOT put off upgrading again.

I WILL BUY A PROJECTOR THIS FALL/HOLIDAY.

I hope JVC gets over their arrogance QC/QA issues and admits to them, correcting all mistakes and bringing BIGGER, SUSTAINABLE LUMENS to us in late 2011/early 2012.

it looks pretty questionable whether he was telling the truth about buying an RS40 and being upset at JVC customer service for not letting him return it or swap it after 500 hours. I wonder if his vengeance against JVC was caused by what he read and not actually from owning an RS40 personally and having the experience he claimed he had with JVC customer service.

I find this comment from krinkle about the AE7000 interesting:
Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

2) IT LOSES FOCUS. I HAVE TO RE-FOCUS IT.

given a previous post from him:
Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

Panasonic -

Its all about quality control that Panasonic can do that JVC cannot, not to mention the better price!

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #635 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 03:27 PM
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I will say one thing about it though, the lamp issues are scary, I mean if you browse the RS40/50/60 threads, it even has me pretty shaken up since I have an RS-45 coming unless I cancel. The lamp issues don't affect everyone the same, since some of us are "junkies" and others just casual movie watchers.

It is a bit disappointing they would be selling lamps at such an expensive premium and then the things burn out so fast. I am hard pressed to find more than a handful of people that made it to 1000 hours in this entire forum on a JVC RS40/50/60 series lamp. Obviously there are some, but if we look at things like this in the Mits threads, the opposite exists, you are hard-pressed to find people that have even lost lamps under 2500 hours.

There were some people that had issues with customer service, but only if they tried to get the lamp replaced post-warranty expiration.


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post #636 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I will say one thing about it though, the lamp issues are scary, I mean if you browse the RS40/50/60 threads, it even has me pretty shaken up since I have an RS-45 coming unless I cancel. The lamp issues don't affect everyone the same, since some of us are "junkies" and others just casual movie watchers.

It is a bit disappointing they would be selling lamps at such an expensive premium and then the things burn out so fast. I am hard pressed to find more than a handful of people that made it to 1000 hours in this entire forum on a JVC RS40/50/60 series lamp. Obviously there are some, but if we look at things like this in the Mits threads, the opposite exists, you are hard-pressed to find people that have even lost lamps under 2500 hours.

There were some people that had issues with customer service, but only if they tried to get the lamp replaced post-warranty expiration.

Yep, and like you I log lots of hours on my projector. Sports, movies, TV shows, etc we watch it all on the primary projector. I need a PJ that will give me more than a 1000 hours. The JVC lamp reports have me scared, and I decided not to preorder the RS45 after much debate. Waiting on the Epson reviews, and really like the sound of the new Mitsubishi 7800 and BenQ W7000. The BenQ may give me everything I am looking for and the W6000 really impressed me. The Panny is also in my list but would love to keep the budget around $2700.
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post #637 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 04:17 PM
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Yah, I'm not sure what I'll do just yet, and I hate to be the bringer of bad news, I really tried hard to find some good news about the lamp. The only good news is that the issue MIGHT be fixed.

Now if I really got at least 1000 hours out of every lamp, I might be ok with that, but not at $400 to $500 a pop (literally a POP).


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post #638 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3d newbie View Post

I bought two pair today at http://www.paulstv.com/3D-Accessorie...-TYEW3D3MU.asp

The sales guy said they had plenty on hand and would try to get them in the mail today.

Seems like everyone has the Mediums........I want a Large. I have one Medium already.
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post #639 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cofn42 View Post

Ebay my friend!

I grabbed a 2pack of 3d gen with avatar 3d for $219, free delivery in the US.

Still quite a few up online.

I know here in Candad my local best buy stocks them and has some there.

I thought I read that the avatar bundle came with the 2nd gen glasses.
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post #640 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claymic View Post

Krinkle
I bought the oppo bdp-93 to use with AE7000, not only because this player is wonderful , but it also can play 3DBD .iso, i realy enjoy to put every disc in a hard drive. This is the only player that does it.
For control my home with ipod/ipad/iphone i am using the Global Caché unit. The interface you can create with the IRule. Its very nice to control everything you want from any place in your house. The devices can be controlled by RS232, IR and TCP/IP. Its realy very nice and you will not have problems to control the devices when using the 3D, because you will use your network to do that.
The IRule have two version, in the most expensive version you will have feedback from RS-232 or TCP/IP and this will allow you to receive data from the devices. I know when my projetor or my receiver is on for exemple. I can easy switch between the lens memory or picture mode without have to enter in menu too.
Very nice.
Clayton

Does the Panasonic 7000 have an Ethernet port?
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post #641 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

I thought I read that the avatar bundle came with the 2nd gen glasses.

There are bundles with Avatar for both 2nd and 3rd gen glasses. Model # TY-EW3D2MMK2 is the 2nd gen bundle, TY-EW3D3MMK3 is the 3rd gen.

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post #642 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

I thought I read that the avatar bundle came with the 2nd gen glasses.

Panasonic did both, the original 2010 bundles had the 3d2 glasses, they re-released this summer with the 3d3 version.

Can be found here:

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702

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post #643 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KallanOz View Post

Does the Panasonic 7000 have an Ethernet port?

Nope, juts a straight up RS-232.

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post #644 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 06:25 PM
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I know krinkle is excited about the AE7000, but to put some perspective on things, three years ago he was claiming that the AE3000 handily outperformed the JVC RS20 and that the AE3000 could show more contrast at once in each image. While there are images where it could, this was pretty much a ridiculous claim and some of us tried to educate him and get him to quit posting false stuff about the subject matter. I hope people won't be misled if I quote his bad information about what these numbers mean, but here is what he said 3 years ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

Not to mention people are reporting that Cine4Home measured around 300:1 ANSI contrast on the RS20 and has confirmed that no improvements to the production model have changed that.

The PT-AE3000 has 446:1 ANSI contrast or 50% more for about 1/3 of the RS20 price!

ANSI contrast is what is really going to make the image POP, as it measures the contrast in a single scene or frozen frame.

The PT-AE3000 handily outperforms the RS20 and can show more contrast at once in each image. This has long been why many people have sworn by DLP projectors to create the most "3D like" images.

I even said at that time:
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

At least if you are going to go away, understand what ANSI CR measures. Partially just covering the same ground as stanger89 did, the ANSI CR test most definitely does not tell you that the one that does better in it can "show more contrast at once in each image" unless by "each image" you mean the 4x4 ANSI checkerboard and not the various images people will watch in content. As I'm sure I've explained multiple times, there are billions of intra-image CRs and the ANSI CR test helps give us some information about them, but it is a long ways from the average movie scene. This is a good thing in some ways because having a fairly extreme test in one direction and another extreme test in another direction (ANSI CR and on/off CR) is a good way to go if only having 2 tests. But many people have gotten confused and thought that ANSI CR was the one that told you what projectors could do for mixed scenes because ANSI CR uses a mixed image. Pretty much all of these projectors can achieve much higher intra-image CRs than the ANSI CR test.

Move forward to closer to today and krinkle continued posting misinformation about what ANSI CR means. I hadn't even realized when I read his misinformation about what ANSI CR meant a month or so ago in order to disparage another JVC versus a Panasonic that he had already been corrected on it.

Again, this isn't to disparage the AE7000, but people may want to keep in mind the kinds of claims krinkle has made in the past about Panasonic vs JVC. I owned both an AE3000 and an RS20 and I don't think krinkle's claim about those held much water at all in that case.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #645 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I find this comment from krinkle about the AE7000 interesting:
given a previous post from him:
--Darin

I may be mistaken, but I'm sure I read somewhere that the projector will require a lot of refocusing during the first couple dozen hours, and that this is normal and due to the thermal cycling or something. I know that I had to refocus mine 3 or 4 times in the last couple weeks, but now it seems to have settled down and has held focus for 4 days straight.
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post #646 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 08:53 PM
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Is the 2D-3D conversion feature in the Panny effective???

While Mark has posted that an effective 2D-3D conversion is too expensive for the 3D projectors in this forum, Evan at PC posted that the 2D-3D conversion in the Mits HC7800 is "remarkable".

And, across the pond, both AVForums and Trusted Reviews posted that the 2D-3D conversion in the 2012 JVCs is effective - e.g., AVForums posted that they were "quite impressed" with the 2D-3D conversion of the 2D Blu-ray of Transformers: Dark of the Moon. That the "software created 3D with genuine depth".

Hopefully, one or more of you will have Dark of the Moon. If so, please test the 2D-3D conversion feature of your Panny, on this disc.

Is the Panny as effective as the JVCs apparently are in converting this disc to 3D???

I'd also like a 2D-3D test of the following non-ILM HD images:
1. Winter's Bone
2. True Grit (2010)
3. Apocalypto
4. Criminal Minds - a very clean/sharp HDTV show, with the NEC super resolution chip in my 8500UB set to #2.

Thanks in advance.
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post #647 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 09:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I posted that as of yesterday, Sears online had the two-pack...not sure what part of the world you're in...

when i go to sears i only see the OLDER avatar pack with the glasses...2nd gen ones. I really want the 3rd gen in Large for my fathead with glasses..
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post #648 of 4432 Old 10-12-2011, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamerlover View Post

when i go to sears i only see the OLDER avatar pack with the glasses...2nd gen ones. I really want the 3rd gen in Large for my fathead with glasses..

The large glasses are supposedly available directly from Panasonic. Their online store is known for its problems though (incorrect stock status, no email notifications when something ships, tracking information not showing in your order status until after you receive the shipment, etc...). But if you're desperate... here's the link. http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000008003

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post #649 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamerlover View Post

when i go to sears i only see the OLDER avatar pack with the glasses...2nd gen ones. I really want the 3rd gen in Large for my fathead with glasses..

I typically wear large reading glasses and sunglasses, but the Panasonic Gen3 mediums fit me quite comfortably.
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post #650 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 07:11 AM
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The Chief website has been updated with the 7000U now in its database. The suggested custom mount for the 7000 is the RPA181, which includes the RPA mount and the SLB181 interface bracket. These are the same custom mounts as for the 3000U and 4000U. (Their RPAU universal mounts will of course work as well. I am not a fan of their universal interface brackets.)

I am personally re-using the RPA181 from my 4000 on my new 7000 and can attest that it works fine. I have also added the LSB100 (lateral shift bracket), which allows me to maintain the pj lens at the exact horizontal center of my screen.
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post #651 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 07:20 AM
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Is there an video reviews of this unit or written reviews
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post #652 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 07:25 AM
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Yep I was to have had a tech call from panasonic with no luck so last night I thought id give it one more try to figure out what was causing the flicker. I turned on the PJ and he flicker was worse. This was on the test screens with nothing was plugged in the video source. Yes, thiers something defently wrong with this unit. Panasonic didn't want to pay for shipping to them and I just told them that would have cost me a good $75.00-85.00 + to ship with insurance and that I was not going to fork out the $$$. I used the famous words "LET ME TALK TO YOUR SUPERVISOR" I just got the pre paid label via e/m today so off it goes to Panasonic. I also said that I would not except a refurbished PJ that I wanted a new PJ as I just got this less than a week ago. Ill keep you updated......
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post #653 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

Is the 2D-3D conversion feature in the Panny effective???

While Mark has posted that an effective 2D-3D conversion is too expensive for the 3D projectors in this forum, Evan at PC posted that the 2D-3D conversion in the Mits HC7800 is "remarkable".

And, across the pond, both AVForums and Trusted Reviews posted that the 2D-3D conversion in the 2012 JVCs is effective - e.g., AVForums posted that they were "quite impressed" with the 2D-3D conversion of the 2D Blu-ray of Transformers: Dark of the Moon. That the "software created 3D with genuine depth".

Hopefully, one or more of you will have Dark of the Moon. If so, please test the 2D-3D conversion feature of your Panny, on this disc.

Is the Panny as effective as the JVCs apparently are in converting this disc to 3D???

I'd also like a 2D-3D test of the following non-ILM HD images:
1. Winter's Bone
2. True Grit (2010)
3. Apocalypto
4. Criminal Minds - a very clean/sharp HDTV show, with the NEC super resolution chip in my 8500UB set to #2.

Thanks in advance.

Projector Central looked at the 2D to 3D conversation on the Panasonic 7000 and had nothing particularly good to say about it. Having seen the 2D to 3D conversion on the Panasonic they then checked out the 2D to 3D on the Mits and said it was remarkable. I read another short review on the Mits and again the reviewer was taken aback by how good the 2D to 3D conversion was. If it was as good on the Panny I'd probably buy the Panny, but I don't think it is or we would have heard about it by now!
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post #654 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 07:38 AM
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When it comes to Panny 7000 vs. Mits hc7800, it will mostly be a matter of preferences of features, or if someone just prefers DLP overall. Art @ pjreviews.com has the most accurate description of when "extra-sharpness" matters, and it isn't all the time for sure. I have compared LCD to LCOS to DLP side-by-side, sharpness still matters for some stuff, but not as much as it used to.

With the Mits hc7800, you will lose quite a bit of mounting flexibility and NOT have lens memory, then only have a small amount of lens shift, that means no center-point mounting with the HP screen (although you can still get decent gain from it).

I would also put my bets on the hc7800 for 3D, but I'm not sure how much better it would really be for a given person. Overall I would expect the Mits hc7800 DLP's 2-D PQ wins out over the Panny 7000 as well, but I don't expect it to make a huge difference except for certain types of scenes and some gaming stuff. DLP tends to look better in scenes that need ultra-sharpness, think water hitting rocks from an ocean and the water particles breaking into tiny pieces and spraying apart. Another example is when gaming and having to read tiny text and not being able to adjust the font sizes. People are somewhat correct that you can't see any huge difference in sharpness in movies between most projectors these days, but there are scenes where you can, more so in documentary type content that shows off nature or scenery type stuff. These types of scenes can also appear in film sometimes, but it's not always as apparent. I'm not sure how much benefits DLP sharpness would add for 3D, but DLP's do tend to have a little better motion, and of course absolutely zero ghosting.


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post #655 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 08:16 AM
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It came yesterday! Installed, well put it where my old AE900 was - on the AV shelf, last night and boy - what an upgrade! I only watched some 2D material and was impressed without any calibration. 3rd gen panny 3D glasses haven't arrived yet; gotta wait
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post #656 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

Is the 2D-3D conversion feature in the Panny effective???

While Mark has posted that an effective 2D-3D conversion is too expensive for the 3D projectors in this forum, Evan at PC posted that the 2D-3D conversion in the Mits HC7800 is "remarkable".

Any 2D -> 3D conversion is complete and total hogwash crap. While we as human beings can determine how far away an object is on screen, computers can not. They are not sentient.

Don't even bother trying it. You'll be disapointed. Quite frankly it's utter rubish.

How 2D -> 3D works:

Each sublock of a pixel has a motion vector associated with it. An object closer to the camera will have a higher motion vector than say one 1/2 mile away. So it is assumed that fast moving objects going across the screen are close.

But that assumption is false. What happens if I have a rocket doing mach 3 in the background? that has a high motion vector. So the algorithm would interpret as being close, when this is not the case.
Another problem is perspective crush. Lets say a fist is going straight for the right eye, you see only the front of the fist through the right eye. Yet your left eye sees part of the arm coming at you. Since there is no information for the arm visual, the illusion completely collapses

Static unmoving images are considered flat for the most part.

You need specialized people and specialized computers with special software to do 2D->3D conversion. In some cases you even need 3D artist to construct missing elements from the changed perspective.

Speaker design is rather an art. There is no such thing as the perfect painting. Likewise there is no such thing as a perfect speaker. It's part science and part personal preference.
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post #657 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGriffin View Post

Any 2D -> 3D conversion is complete and total hogwash crap. While we as human beings can determine how far away an object is on screen, computers can not. They are not sentient.

Don't even bother trying it. You'll be disapointed. Quite frankly it's utter rubish.

How 2D -> 3D works:

Each sublock of a pixel has a motion vector associated with it. An object closer to the camera will have a higher motion vector than say one 1/2 mile away. So it is assumed that fast moving objects going across the screen are close.

But that assumption is false. What happens if I have a rocket doing mach 3 in the background? that has a high motion vector. So the algorithm would interpret as being close, when this is not the case.
Another problem is perspective crush. Lets say a fist is going straight for the right eye, you see only the front of the fist through the right eye. Yet your left eye sees part of the arm coming at you. Since there is no information for the arm visual, the illusion completely collapses

Static unmoving images are considered flat for the most part.

You need specialized people and specialized computers with special software to do 2D->3D conversion. In some cases you even need 3D artist to construct missing elements from the changed perspective.

THREE CHEERS - A Well Written Response
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post #658 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 08:58 AM
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Some random comments:
I must apologize about not producing any screenshots comparisons between the 3000 and 7000. I wasn't able to find any time for this before my buyer showed up.

I'm also not interested in the 2d to 3d conversion. It seems like a gimmick, and it's so uninteresting to me that I don't feel compelled to even try it.

Regarding the 3d brightness I was complaining about, changing the brightness mode of the glasses to "light" was helpful. Given the dimness of 3d, I'm not sure why anyone would choose the "dark" setting???

Also, I ordered a 133" pulldown hi-power that should help brighten 3d content quite a lot. I plan on using this as an option choice, and will keep my 137" painted "cinema white" painted goo screen.

Regarding the "2d" mode on the panasonic glasses, it's interesting to turn this on and off to see the difference. One thing I noticed is that 3d movies, there are periodically certain scenes that don't blow me away, or have little apparent depth. In these scenes, if you switch to 2d mode you can observe that the scene doesn't look 3d because it's not! I was noticing this a lot in the hubble imax blu Ray. It's probably the case that a lot of the footage is old, and wasn't shot with 3d cameras.

Overall, I'm still very happy with the upgrade from the 3000.
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post #659 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesN View Post

I typically wear large reading glasses and sunglasses, but the Panasonic Gen3 mediums fit me quite comfortably.

Amazon has the Avatar bundle with the 3rd gen glasses, if you sell the Avatar blu ray on Ebay (they're bidding upwards of $70 or more as it's only available as you know with Panasonic products right now) the cost for the glasses themselves becomes somewhat "reasonable"...kf
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post #660 of 4432 Old 10-13-2011, 11:30 AM
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If anyone has one installed in central NJ or Harford MD areas I'd love a demo =) Will be quite a while till I get a new place and can replace mt AE900u but I'd love to see the new guy put through its paces.

Buncha savages in this town....

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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