Epson 6010 vs Panny ae7000u - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 10-08-2011, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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So I am in the market for a new projector and my main motivation is 3d.

I currently own a Sanyo Z3000 that has been meeting all my projection needs thus far.

I have narrowed down the purchase to either the Epson 6010 or the Panny 7000.

From all I have read here, they are pretty similar as the 7000 uses the same tech inside the 6010.

But is there any true differences? This I have not been able to find here.

Are there any features that one has over the other? They both seems almost identical on the 3d side of things, which is ultimately my main motivator, but truth be told I will likely still be watching more 2d than 3d.

Thoughts? Insight? Thanks.

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post #2 of 44 Old 10-08-2011, 05:32 PM
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http://www.trustedreviews.com/epson-3_Projector_review

http://www.trustedreviews.com/panaso...ojector_review
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post #3 of 44 Old 10-08-2011, 06:21 PM
 
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I love the title 6010 vs 7000, and then your question goes to 5010 vs 7000. Are you trying to trip us up?
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post #4 of 44 Old 10-08-2011, 09:27 PM
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I'm VERY MUCH looking forward to an A/B shootout of these two projectors.
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post #5 of 44 Old 10-08-2011, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I love the title 6010 vs 7000, and then your question goes to 5010 vs 7000. Are you trying to trip us up?

Lol, oops, my bad totally. I have had tooooo many projectors on the brain lately. Have a headache from 8 hours of reading on the subject today, ugh. Now fixed....

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post #6 of 44 Old 10-09-2011, 11:54 AM
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1) Panasonic has lens memory, Epson does not

2) Epson has body-centered-lens, Panasonic has offset lens

3) Panasonic has clumsy joystick to control lens shift; Epson has ??? to control lens shift
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post #7 of 44 Old 10-09-2011, 12:11 PM
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http://translate.google.com/translat...000_Test_A.htm

If I purchase an Epson I'll use my outboard filter (that I use with my Epson 9500) with it for 2D and just remove it for 3D. Apparently the FI and dynamic iris don't work in 3D mode so I'll probably look at something else. The FI does work in 3D mode with the Panny, which I hear is a big plus for 3D.
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post #8 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

http://translate.google.com/translat...000_Test_A.htm

If I purchase an Epson I'll use my outboard filter (that I use with my Epson 9500) with it for 2D and just remove it for 3D. Apparently the FI and dynamic iris don't work in 3D mode so I'll probably look at something else. The FI does work in 3D mode with the Panny, which I hear is a big plus for 3D.

I just read that yesterday and that really sucks! I was so close to pulling the pin on the Epson, now how big a difference will it actually make for 3d, who knows, but dollar for dollar it seems like he Panny would be a better investment.

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post #9 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 10:30 AM
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I wonder if the Epson is getting firmware updates right now to make it more competative with the Panasonic before release...
My guess is specific features may be what makes a deciding factor between these two. I'm guessing street price will be similar, and picture shold be about the same.
Epson warranty wins out (3 years with the 6010?), right?
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post #10 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

http://translate.google.com/translat...000_Test_A.htm

If I purchase an Epson I'll use my outboard filter (that I use with my Epson 9500) with it for 2D and just remove it for 3D. Apparently the FI and dynamic iris don't work in 3D mode so I'll probably look at something else. The FI does work in 3D mode with the Panny, which I hear is a big plus for 3D.

----------------
Sory for my ignorance what is F1 and whhat is this outboard filter its use.
Thanks for precision
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post #11 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post

I wonder if the Epson is getting firmware updates right now to make it more competitive with the Panasonic before release...
My guess is specific features may be what makes a deciding factor between these two. I'm guessing street price will be similar, and picture should be about the same.
Epson warranty wins out (3 years with the 6010?), right?

You are correct 601 has 3yr 24hr replacement warranty, 5010 has 2yr 48hr replacement warranty.

I imagine that they will both look quite similar, Epson should be a little brighter with 400 lumens more than the Panny

I know there is a last minute change that has been made to the Epson, it is what caused the delays in reviews, so maybe it is to add FI or a dynamic iris.

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post #12 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toni1 View Post

----------------
Sory for my ignorance what is F1 and whhat is this outboard filter its use.
Thanks for precision

FI is film interpolation, it is the technique used to add extra frames in between existing ones to make for a smoother image during fast paced scenes.

The outboard filter though, I have no clue.

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post #13 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 01:14 PM
 
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I am looking into getting a 6010 unit to put up on my test bench
to do a review for my web and You tube Page...

Once i find out firm details will update everyone...
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post #14 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 01:43 PM
 
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Outboard filters can be used to do different things. A neutral density filter can be used to lower light output across the board. A colored filter can be used to change the color of say for explantory purposes, white. The color filter will filter out certain color components and for example make the color of white closer to d65. This is just a brief explanation. But any color filter will reduce the amount of light output and usually with respect to 3D, you wouldn't want to lose any light so if you were employing a filter for 2D, you would remove it in 3D. Last year or so, there was a model Epson I believe sold in Europe that included an external filter. A filter was not included in the US version.
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post #15 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 03:13 PM
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Me to I'm VERY MUCH looking forward to an 5010 OR 6010 VS 7000U of these two projectors
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post #16 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

i am looking into getting a 6010 unit to put up on my test bench
to do a review for my web and you tube page...

Once i find out firm details will update everyone...

what is your web and you tube page......??
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post #17 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cofn42 View Post

FI is film interpolation, it is the technique used to add extra frames in between existing ones to make for a smoother image during fast paced scenes.

Not to nitpick, but I believe FI is commonly used more generically to mean frame insertion (it could obviously also be used for film interpolation). Frame insertion can be either the interpolation type, where the processor compares some number of frames and then generates intermediate frames of video that don't actually exist in the source, or it can be black frame insertion, that does exactly as it sounds like. Both types of FI help alleviate the motion blurring caused by eye-tracking with sample-and-hold displays (like LCD and LCoS). The interpolation type of frame insertion also increases the smoothness or "soap-opera" effect of the video.

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post #18 of 44 Old 10-10-2011, 09:39 PM
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These 3 features of the 6010 has me sold:
  • 3D glasses includes two pairs of active shutter 3D glasses
  • Also includes spare lamp, cable cover and mount
  • Outstanding support three-year limited warranty; next-business-day shipping service
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post #19 of 44 Old 10-11-2011, 05:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopLord View Post

These 3 features of the 6010 has me sold:
  • 3D glasses includes two pairs of active shutter 3D glasses
  • Also includes spare lamp, cable cover and mount
  • Outstanding support three-year limited warranty; next-business-day shipping service

This list is what gets me excited ....
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post #20 of 44 Old 10-11-2011, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

This list is what gets me excited ....

How well it does 3D compared to DLP and how good the contrast is without its DI enabled in 3D mode are major concerns to me. The fact that its FI is disabled in 3D mode is another concern. A lot of the 2D positives Epson has to offer, that we pay for, in 2D are stolen from us in 3D mode. Epson needs to "fix" this, and maybe they are, before they introduce this product to the buying public. There are two sides, at least, to every story and I want full disclosure before I make a purchase!
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post #21 of 44 Old 10-11-2011, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

The fact that its FI is disabled in 3D mode is another concern.

Doesn't 3D depend on every other video frame being synced to either the left or right eye via the shutter glasses?

So where would an in-between FI "interpolated" frame be sent? Since we have no middle eye I cannot see where FI would work unless the LCD refresh rate was doubled and hence interpolated frames could then be sent to each eye alternately.

Correct me if I am mistaken on this but I don't see FI being available for projection shutter 3D till we get way faster LCD's and probably LED lamps too.

Polarized non-shutter Real 3D is another story...
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post #22 of 44 Old 10-11-2011, 09:27 PM
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3D does not display every other frame to each eye. Rather a single frame is sent to the display device that has the images for both eyes encoded in it. In frame packed HDMI, 2 full resolution images are included in a single frame, the display device simply toggles between these 2 images at the cycle rate of the panels (and glasses) until a new frame is delivered. In side-by-side or top-and-bottom encoding, 2 half resolution images are stitched together and delivered to the display device as a normal image. The display device then splits the single image into 2, scales the 2 images to full size, and then toggles between them.

For a 24p source, you only have to have 96hz panels to take advantage of FI in 3D (since a 24p frame will be displayed 4 times, twice for each eye, an FI enabled display could display the original image once plus one inserted image per eye before the next frame arrived).

The new Epson and Panny technically have 480hz panels, but they only get full image updates 240 times per second (the panels refresh faster than the processor can copy a full 1920x1080 image to them, so it takes 2 cycles for a full image). At 240hz, a single frame from a 24p source can be displayed 10 times (5 times per eye in 3D mode). A 30p source would be 8 times (4 per eye), and a 60p source would be 4 times (2 per eye). As you can see, even a 60p source can take advantage of frame insertion in 3D on 240hz display devices.

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post #23 of 44 Old 10-12-2011, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopLord View Post

These 3 features of the 6010 has me sold:
  • 3D glasses ā€” includes two pairs of active shutter 3D glasses
  • Also includes ā€” spare lamp, cable cover and mount
  • Outstanding support ā€” three-year limited warranty; next-business-day shipping service

The things you mention are not features of the projector at all, in fact depending on where you order you may be able to get similar things for the Panny also. when selecting please look at the spec from each machine rather than the gimmicks each company throws at you for the choice.

1) 2 free glasses (Panny one cost you about $100-$150 for 2, now are you spending thousands of dollars on a projector to save $150 on not buying glasses?....scary) and I am not dumb i know in this economy every penny counts.

2) Spare Lamp... Panny/Epson lamps are rated at 3-5 thousand hours minimum.... your projector will be obsolete in 24-36 months...my guess is you'll put maybe 1000 max hours on the projector in 2 years. Spare lamp reasoning moot,....something you can pick up for half or less the price in 12 months NO way your lamp will burn out in 12-24 months unless its defective.

3) Outstanding support - Again this depends on where you order...I've ordered my last 3 projectors from VA (Sponsor here) and support has been stunning.

Just seems like you are not taking into acount the true measure of the PROJECTORS and are beign swayed by factors which have little to do with A. vs. B. just my thoughts ....projectorcentral.com has some good reviews for both go do some light reading in your spare time. most of all enjoy your choice! Times in this sector are changing so fast...none of these machine are junk as I've mentioned in the past.

Good luck!

The Epson price ~4k is 1k more than current price of the Panny/JVC...you could probably get all of the above for less than that....
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post #24 of 44 Old 10-12-2011, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukedallas2005 View Post

The things you mention are not features of the projector at all, in fact depending on where you order you may be able to get similar things for the Panny also. when selecting please look at the spec from each machine rather than the gimmicks each company throws at you for the choice.

1) 2 free glasses (Panny one cost you about $100-$150 for 2, now are you spending thousands of dollars on a projector to save $150 on not buying glasses?....scary) and I am not dumb i know in this economy every penny counts but if your'e in the game ...play it.

2) Spare Lamp... Panny/Epson lamps are rated at 3-5 thousand hours minimum.... your projector will be obsolete in 24-36 months...my guess is you'll put maybe 1000 max hours on the projector in 2 years. Spare lamp reasoning moot, woulda coulda had the spare....something you can pick up for half or less the price in 12 months NO way your lamp will burn out in 12-24 months unless its defective.

3) Outstanding support - Again this depends on where you order...I've ordered my last 3 projectors from VA (Sponsor here) and support has been stunning.

Just seems like you are not taking into acount the true measure of the PROJECTOR and are beign swayed by factors which have little to do with A. vs. B. just my thoughts ....projectorcentral.com has some good reviews for both go do some light reading in your spare time. Good luck!

You might want to think about #2. I personally, as well as many others, use their projector 4 to 5 hrs a day. Couple that with dimming (beyond what I can stand at around 1000hours) , and your actually changing that bulb more than you think. I don't understand how people can watch 3000 hour bulbs and convince themselves it looks ANYWHERE NEAR what a new bulb looks like. I always say people mention they have 2500 hours on the bulb and it still looks like new. Then they put a new bulb in and are like "holy shTT", ok, NOW it looks new.

But I agree with you on all the extras. I personally would like to go with the 5010. The real, physical reason for a 6010 would be the extra bulb, AND the extra year of warranty. Is it worth about a grand??? Probably not, but there you go.
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post #25 of 44 Old 10-12-2011, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

You might want to think about #2. I personally, as well as many others, use their projector 4 to 5 hrs a day. Couple that with dimming (beyond what I can stand at around 1000hours) , and your actually changing that bulb more than you think. I don't understand how people can watch 3000 hour bulbs and convince themselves it looks ANYWHERE NEAR what a new bulb looks like. I always say people mention they have 2500 hours on the bulb and it still looks like new. Then they put a new bulb in and are like "holy shTT", ok, NOW it looks new.

But I agree with you on all the extras. I personally would like to go with the 5010. The real, physical reason for a 6010 would be the extra bulb, AND the extra year of warranty. Is it worth about a grand??? Probably not, but there you go.

This has been my stand point all along.

When you take a bulb and glasses they come to about $550 give or take, so $450 for a warranty extension, that is a little steep.

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post #26 of 44 Old 10-12-2011, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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So after many many hours of being on the fence, I have taken the plunge and purchased the Panny last night.

A local dealer here got one in for the show room and I had to go see it first hand.

Once I was the picture quality on the unit, coupled with simply jaw dropping 3d (much better than local theater / imax I have seen) and I was sold hook line and sinker.

And another nice feature I had no clue even existed was the 2d/3d switch on the 3rd gen panasonic glasses.

One person can be watching a film in 3d, and if the other is feeling woozy from the effects, you can flip a little switch and it goes 2d, no need to stop the movie and pop the other version in.

This blew me away and sold my wife as she is pretty sensitive to 3d.

I have a Sanyo z3000 now and this unit puts it to shame in terms of 2d quality. My hats off to Panasonic.

Now just the excruciating wait until it arrives.

Marantz AV8801 / Rotel 2x RMB-1095 / RMB-1090 / Yamaha P7000S / Velodyne SMS-1 / DTech BP2000TL / DTech C/L/R 3000 / 4x - DTech BPVX/P Surrounds / DTech SM55 Heights / DTech SM65 Wides / SVS PB13 Ultra / 2x Buttkicker LFE / PTAE-8000U / Globalcache, iRule & Insteon.


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post #27 of 44 Old 10-13-2011, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cofn42 View Post

So after many many hours of being on the fence, I have taken the plunge and purchased the Panny last night.

A local dealer here got one in for the show room and I had to go see it first hand.

Once I was the picture quality on the unit, coupled with simply jaw dropping 3d (much better than local theater / imax I have seen) and I was sold hook line and sinker.

And another nice feature I had no clue even existed was the 2d/3d switch on the 3rd gen panasonic glasses.

One person can be watching a film in 3d, and if the other is feeling woozy from the effects, you can flip a little switch and it goes 2d, no need to stop the movie and pop the other version in.

This blew me away and sold my wife as she is pretty sensitive to 3d.

I have a Sanyo z3000 now and this unit puts it to shame in terms of 2d quality. My hats off to Panasonic.

Now just the excruciating wait until it arrives.

Congrats I also had the Sanyo projector you have and the difference in image was stunning going from my Sanyo to the Panny 4000 which I did about 18 months ago, your'e not going to be disappointed going to the 7000 trust me!!!! I watched Lion King in 3D last night and the colors, depth and clarity was stunning I got the chills, like watching it for the first time. Hopefully you have access to some other 3D content like DirectTv or your local cable channels to fully take advantage of this projector.

3D to me was a secondary issue when I decided on the 7000, i was looking at the quality of the 2D picture at first and foremost, in my reality though I have been hooked on the 3D since I bought this projector, I spend a few hrs every night watching 3D content in Directv...its not 100% perfect but its amazing.
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post #28 of 44 Old 10-17-2011, 09:24 AM
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Congrats!! We went from the Sanyo z4 to a epson 8350 and the difference was amazing! A year from now the 8350 will be moved to the general family/reading room and we are looking at the 6010 for the dedicated theater room.

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post #29 of 44 Old 10-17-2011, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jstabb View Post

3D does not display every other frame to each eye. Rather a single frame is sent to the display device that has the images for both eyes encoded in it. In frame packed HDMI, 2 full resolution images are included in a single frame, the display device simply toggles between these 2 images at the cycle rate of the panels (and glasses) until a new frame is delivered.

jstabb -

I think you are playing with words/terminology a bit here. Perhaps a single frame has both he left and right images included in it but unless you are using Real 3D which has both images sent to the screen/display at the same time and uses different polarization for the image for left or right eye, then the left and right IMAGES in the shutter system are not on the screen/display at the same time. The IMAGES are displayed sequentially.

You may be correct then in that FI can be done so why isn't it being done by Epson? Are their processors too weak to handle all that information?
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post #30 of 44 Old 10-18-2011, 05:52 AM
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This has been my stand point all along.

When you take a bulb and glasses they come to about $550 give or take, so $450 for a warranty extension, that is a little steep.


The only question I've always had with these "Pro" versions is just how good is this mount that comes with it? Is it a 'cheapie' just enough to hold it up there, or is it a decent $200 - $250 type mount?
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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