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post #271 of 499 Old 12-06-2011, 08:49 PM
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With the flexible lens shift and faster color wheel, the Benq is the better projector for most. Even if not bright enough, you can fix that with a retro-reflective screen. Even just buying a secondary HP or tripod gain screen for when you use it for 3D would work.


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post #272 of 499 Old 12-06-2011, 09:07 PM
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I'm really, really interested in this projector, my other alternative would be the JVC, but I have been craving some DLP action in my theater.

I'm worried about the minimum distance to the screen though, I made a fixed screen which is about 130" 16:9 diagonal with black bars on the sides, I don't think I have a problem there, but in order to fill the screen in the 2:35 format I have to almost go all the way to the sides of the walls in the room, which comes up to about 139" diagonal for a 2:35 aspect ratio movies which translates into a more or less 150" diagonal 16:9 screen. how far back do I need to go in order to fill the screen?

Basically my 2 viewing choices are 130" diagonal for 16:9 material and 139" for 2:35 movies.

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post #273 of 499 Old 12-06-2011, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post

I'm really, really interested in this projector, my other alternative would be the JVC, but I have been craving some DLP action in my theater.

I'm worried about the minimum distance to the screen though, I made a fixed screen which is about 130" 16:9 diagonal with black bars on the sides, I don't think I have a problem there, but in order to fill the screen in the 2:35 format I have to almost go all the way to the sides of the walls in the room, which comes up to about 139" diagonal for a 2:35 aspect ratio movies which translates into a more or less 150" diagonal 16:9 screen. how far back do I need to go in order to fill the screen?

Basically my 2 viewing choices are 130" diagonal for 16:9 material and 139" for 2:35 movies.

For 150" diagonal 16:9 screen the manual says 16.76' MINIMUM distance projector to screen. This is from page 14 of the manual at ftp://downloads.benq.net/user_manual...lish/w7000.pdf
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post #274 of 499 Old 12-06-2011, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

For 150" diagonal 16:9 screen the manual says 16.76' MINIMUM distance projector to screen. This is from page 14 of the manual at ftp://downloads.benq.net/user_manual...lish/w7000.pdf

Great news thank you.

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post #275 of 499 Old 12-06-2011, 11:14 PM
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The above numbers are not correct, that's why it's easier just to use a calculator.

For a 139" 2.35 screen, the minimum throw is about 17 ft 5 inches (assuming 1.63 throw), or 17 feet 3 inches for a 1.62 throw. The evidence is leaning towards a 1.62 throw ratio not a 1.63, but either way the above numbers stated are off. So the minimum you might get away with is 17 feet 3 inches for a 139" 2.35 screen (diagonal size).

If we were basing it from the chart in the manual on a 150" diagonal (which doesn't match the 2.35 size he gave):
5386 millimeters = 212.047244 in
212.05 = 17 feet 8 inches for 150" 16:9 diagonal

Just use the calculator and change the aspect ratio and screen size to match your screen, it does the rest for you. Otherwise, I keep seeing people post the wrong throw numbers in various threads and it is going to mess people up. I'm generally using the "worst case" throw numbers in the calculator anyhow (1.63 here), so you should be safe, but you may get away with 1 or 2 inches closer. You can change the throw to 1.62 in the calculator if you want to see the best case tolerance. For JVC's I use 1.4, even though many people claim 1.37 or 1.38, but regardless worst case numbers are on the safer side of the tolerance.


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post #276 of 499 Old 12-06-2011, 11:47 PM
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I think I'm in the worst possible situation for these two DLP projectors (mits 7800 and benq 7000). My screen is 115" (painstakingly painted on wall with border, really dont want to go smaller). My room is about 12.5 feet long, and these projectors are about a foot long so that leaves 11.5 feet for throw before I hit a soffit (above screen), but if I go more than 5" above screen I'd have to take down a ceiling fan that would block the light path. I can get a 13' throw if I project from just under the top of the screen because I'd clear the soffit.

To recap:
-115" screen
-~11.5' throw top of screen and above, have to remove fan > 5" above top of screen
-13' throw 2" below top of screen

from the calculator it looks like:
-benq w7000 can be placed @ 13'7" (7" over budget causing image to fill only 110" of screen)
-mits 7800 11'8" but 11" above screen = removal of a ceiling fan (not too hard but then i'd get hot in the summer as the AC is average at best).
-sony hw30 = best of both worlds? 11'9" throw and does not require fan removal but its a lot more expensive. Will the picture look that much better than the benq or mits to justify the price hike (if you get 3D Glasses / emitter for this PJ I assume it would be almost $1000 more than the benq)? Does sony tech have more input lag than the DLP's from benq and mits?

My main concerns are black levels, pop and low input lag for gaming (which is why I was mainly looking at DLP's). Epson 5010 fit my screen perfectly but lagged me to hell and back.

Since this is just a rental residence I am not interested in investing in a fancy lens to go in front of the projector to "correct" the throw that will cost even more money. I can tell you for sure one of my top priorities when I buy or rent again next year will be a room thats at least 18' long
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post #277 of 499 Old 12-06-2011, 11:51 PM
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If your not RBE sensitive, go for the Mits if your main concern is 3D and the Benq won't fit.
For the Mits, try and get a low profile ceiling fan if it would fit?
Ceiling fans aren't that expensive and aren't really that hard to install either.

The Sony hw30 isn't really much more expensive than the Mits though, only a little bit.

Otherwise buy a regular room fan or something.


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post #278 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 12:15 AM
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I think its going to be a gamble, I've only ever owned LCD projectors so no idea if I will see the RBE. I think I will replace the fan with something low profile or a ceiling light if even a low profile will not clear the light beam.

Thanks for the reassurance
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post #279 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 01:53 AM
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Just a curious note, the Benq w6000's throw charts generally show a 1.63 to 1.635 min. throw ratio (depending on how they rounded), but the Benq w7000's throw charts generally show a somewhat more consistent 1.62 min. throw ratio. Take that for what it's worth (which isn't much), but I'll continue to use 1.63 for now, not like 1-2 inches is going to make much difference for most people anyhow.


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post #280 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vullcan View Post

-sony hw30 = best of both worlds? 11'9" throw and does not require fan removal but its a lot more expensive. Will the picture look that much better than the benq or mits to justify the price hike (if you get 3D Glasses / emitter for this PJ I assume it would be almost $1000 more than the benq)? Does sony tech have more input lag than the DLP's from benq and mits?

My main concerns are black levels, pop and low input lag for gaming (which is why I was mainly looking at DLP's). Epson 5010 fit my screen perfectly but lagged me to hell and back.

Call Mike or Mark @ AVS for best pricing on the HW30, it's less expensive than you might be thinking. It comes with a 3 year warranty, the 3D emitter and 2 pairs of Sony glasses so it's ready for 2D/3D right out of the box.

The black level on the HW30 is likely going to be better than the 7800 or 7000, but DLP has a certain sharpness that is hard to beat if your used to it. I don't see any noticeable lag issues while gaming on the Sony.

I have the JVC RS50 and Sony HW30. I use the HW30 80% of the time, this a very good all around projector and handles 3D better than the JVC imo. (faster panels and FI in 3D make a difference). Plus the lamps on the Sony are the cheapest of any of these projectors by a good margin.

The main interest I have on the BenQ 7000 is for the 3D. The 3D DLP's are much faster than the LCOS/LCD panels and can provide ghost-free 3D viewing. My expectations are high on the W7000's 3D performance.
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post #281 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post

Is there anything out wit hthe .95" for 3D, without being super expensive??

Depends on how you define "super expensive". Does mid to high teens qualify for this label?
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post #282 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Call Mike or Mark @ AVS for best pricing on the HW30, it's less expensive than you might be thinking.


lens shift and slower color wheel aside, do you think the w7000 has much up on the hc7800 for 2D viewing? I dont think I will be shelling out the little bit extra for the sony; $3000 is already at the upper end of my price range, and I want to experience the pop / sharpness everyone always talks about to see if I like it.

3D isnt the main attraction to me just a nice addon bonus. I'm going for low input lag, and a bright sharp image. I'll be getting off the 5010 train so I hope the blacks in DLP land are at least somewhat comparable although I know that as mentioned LCD / LCOS tend to have better contrast / blacks. I do have a grey screen so that might help a little.
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post #283 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 08:40 AM
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Based on the Benq W6000 if all stays the same, would it be fair to say that in this price range the Panasonic and the JVC units would give better black levels? I know that the Benq should be sharper and its 3D performance should be better, besides that, what other qualities would a DLP have over the other technologies? I love 3D but I will be watching 95% or more regular 2D movies and I don't play games.

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post #284 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vullcan View Post

lens shift and slower color wheel aside, do you think the w7000 has much up on the hc7800 for 2D viewing? I dont think I will be shelling out the little bit extra for the sony; $3000 is already at the upper end of my price range, and I want to experience the pop / sharpness everyone always talks about to see if I like it.

3D isnt the main attraction to me just a nice addon bonus. I'm going for low input lag, and a bright sharp image. I'll be getting off the 5010 train so I hope the blacks in DLP land are at least somewhat comparable although I know that as mentioned LCD / LCOS tend to have better contrast / blacks. I do have a grey screen so that might help a little.

I would check out the W6000 thread to see what the input lag on that projector is like. If I recall, it was either the W5000 or the W6000 that had higher input lag than most projectors. I would double check just to make sure though.
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post #285 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 10:35 AM
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Fwiw, BenQ told me this unit will ship in January.
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post #286 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 11:32 AM
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Any perks to pre-ordering directly from BenQ?
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post #287 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 11:38 AM
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Don't know, my order is with AVS, I was just digging for info.
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post #288 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 11:49 AM
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The Panasonic is not particularly great for black levels in this price range, and does not in any way compare to the JVC's black levels, as a matter of fact I would place the Panny near last in black levels for the $3000+ price range other than DLP's.

Generally, the black levels on projectors like the Mits DLP and Benq DLP's will be at least somewhat near the Panny 7000's black levels, and at worst maybe slightly brighter, but either way they should be decent for a DLP. We don't know which projector will have better black levels, the Mits or Benq, and we don't know for certain exactly where the black levels will fall (so speaking in general terms here). If I had to take a wild guess, I'm going to assume the Benq will have the better IRIS, simply being able to tweak the IRIS in the service menu is a huge benefit for the Benq (as long as it kept this feature). That way you can adjust out the level of IRIS movement you like, and we don't know if the Mits will have some feature like this or not. Plus the Benq has other advantages, overall I just have to favor the Benq over the Mits, but the image itself is probably not going to look that different between the two other than for RBE sensitive people.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look to the Epson 5010 or Sony hw30 if you want better blacks and decent 3D. The Epson 5010 might be really good, but no idea on how much ghosting.

DLP will always have the advantage for 3D though, at least for a while.

The Epson 5010 and Sony hw30 are in another league over the Panny's black levels, but the JVC's are in another dimension of black levels


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post #289 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post

Based on the Benq W6000 if all stays the same, would it be fair to say that in this price range the Panasonic and the JVC units would give better black levels?

I tried to live with a W6000 (because of its price) but eventually the black level was its downfall. There were a few other issues (for me) however I boxed it up over this one. I used the W6000 years ago and it didn't bother me however time has marched on but its black level hasn't. I use the dedicated room strictly for movies so its brightness and DLP look (tons of ANSI) almost worked against itself. The 120 inch diagonal image from 12 feet back appeared coarse at times. Lowering the brightness in the service menu helped but didn't help the black level. Low intensity scenes simply appeared too flat.
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post #290 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 12:02 PM
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I guess it depends what your used to, DLP's are never the strongest on black levels, but I don't think the blacks on the Benq or Mits will be bad at all. Some people just want darker and darker blacks, some people care more about other things as well. If you really want darker blacks, you can't beat the JVC's for the price, or even the Epson 5010 or Sony hw30 does blacks well also. It is a misconception that the Panny 7000 has all that good of black levels, now the Panny's blacks are ok for a sub $2000 projector, but in this price range they are weaker, not terrible but just weaker.

Also we shouldn't immediately assume the w7000 is a slightly modded w6000 when it comes to the engine itself so to speak, it may very well be, but we don't know that for sure. We do know they have similarities like the same throw and placement, but we don't know to the extent of if contrast is better or worse. Most people thought the w6000 did very well on black levels for a DLP, but a DLP can never match black levels of projectors like the Epson 5010, Sony hw30, and especially not a JVC RS-45/55/65.


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post #291 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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First review is up at Taiwanese AV site:
http://www.hd.club.tw/thread-125119-1-1.html
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post #292 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 12:46 PM
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I thought I'd bring back a list of questions I asked earlier and remove ones that have been answered:

#1 Confirmation is 6x color wheel
#2 Dynamic Iris available in 3D?
#3 Frame Interpolation available in 3D?
#4 MSRP of replacement lamp (since only rated at 2000/2500 hours is important to me)
#5 Release date
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post #293 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

but a DLP can never match black levels of projectors like the Epson 5010, Sony hw30, and especially not a JVC RS-45/55/65.

Man that really worries me! I have the 5010 now and coming from the 8350 these are the blacks I have been searching for, I'm prepared to make a small sacrafice but I'm hoping its not as bad as the blacks on the 8350.

If the 5010 didnt lag I'd be keeping it for sure but whatever pixelworks engine / processing chip they added really slowed the line down so im kinda forced to go DLP or go home.
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post #294 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

I thought I'd bring back a list of questions I asked earlier and remove ones that have been answered:

#1 Confirmation is 6x color wheel
#2 Dynamic Iris available in 3D?
#3 Frame Interpolation available in 3D?
#4 MSRP of replacement lamp (since only rated at 2000/2500 hours is important to me)
#5 Release date

#6 Any masking and if so what exactly?

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #295 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 03:23 PM
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My dealer just told me they'll have them in at the end of the month.

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post #296 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theologian View Post

First review is up at Taiwanese AV site:
http://www.hd.club.tw/thread-125119-1-1.html

thanks for posting. The reviewer does his own calibrations and seems impressed with the color performance vs. BenQ's from the past. I am loosely translating that he isn't seeing crosstalk which makes sense given that it's DLP.

This 3D image from his review would crush even the new LCOS/LCD's. We would easily see the images of the girls against the blue background.

I can't wait to see 3D on this projector.. finally, 1080P 3D DLP w/ real lens shift. The Acer 5360 is going to be retired soon.

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post #297 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 04:02 PM
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From the posted review link...

summary
conclusion, BENQ launch of the first 1080p 3D projector W7000 performance in both the have above-average performance, 2D color reproduction, color saturation are very good. Past emphasis on the projector BenQ green part of the overall projector brightness highlights the practice of an extension of the color gamut problem, this time in the W7000 also done a lot of change, which is the color performance of the machine could be so precise a major the key.

3D performance as very good, people are concerned about CrossTalk phenomenon, W7000 DLP's performance as the advantages of 3D, the whole testing process is almost completely unaware of. 3D images of a sense of depth and prominent part of the performance is also very quite satisfactory.

Since this is only works on hand machines, the evaluation process to the BenQ projector also the RD department made ​​some suggestions items, so the measured values ​​in this listing will also slightly adjust and correct, but to see the project machine's performance level has been so, I believe that listing will be more excellent, I would like to see a lot of players over the performance of the W7000 also like us can think W7000 is really looking forward to a new FHD 3D projector!
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post #298 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for posting. The reviewer does his own calibrations and seems impressed with the color performance vs. BenQ's from the past. I am loosely translating that he isn't seeing crosstalk which makes sense given that it's DLP.

This 3D image from his review would crush even the new LCOS/LCD's. We would easily see the images of the girls against the blue background.

I can't wait to see 3D on this projector.. finally, 1080P 3D DLP w/ real lens shift. The Acer 5360 is going to be retired soon.


I would have thought with all your newer and much more expensive 3D projectors that little POS, as Conan48 called it, would have been retired long ago.

At least the Acer, with its $49.95 lens can be focused!
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post #299 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I would have thought with all your newer and much more expensive 3D projectors that little POS, as Conan48 called it, would have been retired long ago.

At least the Acer, with its $49.95 lens can be focused!

I still keep it around for SBS and 3D gaming once in a while, and lent it out all summer for 'back yard movie night' to coworkers.

The Acer proved 1 major point, that complete ghost free 3D CAN exist. My issue with the Acer:
  • I thought it looked a little soft on my 142" screen @ 720p.
  • When the lamp was new, the RBE was brutal for me, even in 3D when it was less noticeable.
  • colors and contrast were average at best
  • Projector placement was pretty bad. I had to use heavy keystone to get it to look ok on my screen, I wanted max gain on the HP screen.
While certainly more expensive than the Acer, the Ben Q W7000 should improve in all these areas. The W6000 and SP890 at work are some of the sharpest projectors i've seen, the lens shift is ideal for HP owners and the 300watt lamp should crank out out the lumens.

The HW30 w/ the tuned MV3D's is about as close as it gets with 3D frame packed content - much better than the JVC imo. I can get rid of 90% of the visible ghosting, but it will still show it's face with a tough movie like Sammy's Adventures.
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post #300 of 499 Old 12-07-2011, 06:18 PM
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The colour graphs of the W7000 don't exactly look great if that's out of the box settings.

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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