Official Sony VPL-VW95ES Owners Thread - Page 121 - AVS Forum
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post #3601 of 3629 Old 11-07-2014, 12:35 PM
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here i've linked the quick pre-calibration reports if anyone is interested.

http://1drv.ms/1tmg5ei
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post #3602 of 3629 Old 11-07-2014, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masodes View Post
here i've linked the quick pre-calibration reports if anyone is interested.

http://1drv.ms/1tmg5ei
I spoke to Sony today. Since Sony Japan is now involved it will take longer, maybe up to 2 or 3 weeks in total. The local techs are asked to performed various experiments and tests then feedback the results. This likely takes a full day each time instructions are given and results are sent back to Japan.
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post #3603 of 3629 Old 11-07-2014, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jebj View Post
I spoke to Sony today. Since Sony Japan is now involved it will take longer, maybe up to 2 or 3 weeks in total. The local techs are asked to performed various experiments and tests then feedback the results. This likely takes a full day each time instructions are given and results are sent back to Japan.

jebj, would you send me your "Prime Support Ref" and "Job Number"?
i'd like to let the "EU Prime Support" know that somewhere else they are dealing a bit different with problems.
i'm afraid that in my case they haven't even done any measurements. if so they would have seen that something has to be messed up with my projector.
thanks and keep us informed!
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post #3604 of 3629 Old 11-08-2014, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by masodes View Post
jebj, would you send me your "Prime Support Ref" and "Job Number"?
i'd like to let the "EU Prime Support" know that somewhere else they are dealing a bit different with problems.
i'm afraid that in my case they haven't even done any measurements. if so they would have seen that something has to be messed up with my projector.
thanks and keep us informed!
Masodes, I think it might be best to see what the final outcome is before stirring things up. This might cause problems for the service center and tech that I am dealing with, especially if my specific work order is referenced. For now you can perhaps tell them that a customer in Toronto has a similar problem with the VW95ES and the local service center is performing measurements to validate the problem. I also provided them with Calman screen captures showing the pre-calibration measurements at 50 hours vs around 500 hours to clearly show the change in gamma and gamut.
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post #3605 of 3629 Old 11-11-2014, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jebj View Post
Masodes, I think it might be best to see what the final outcome is before stirring things up. This might cause problems for the service center and tech that I am dealing with, especially if my specific work order is referenced. For now you can perhaps tell them that a customer in Toronto has a similar problem with the VW95ES and the local service center is performing measurements to validate the problem. I also provided them with Calman screen captures showing the pre-calibration measurements at 50 hours vs around 500 hours to clearly show the change in gamma and gamut.
That makes sense. I'm hoping the best for you!
In the meantime i found two german guys who also had to deal with the same problem. They both took their projectors to Prime Support. The first one got the whole optical block replaced and everything was working perfectly again. The other one had to cope with Sony's claim that this is reasonable wear and tear of the optical block.
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post #3606 of 3629 Old 11-21-2014, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by masodes View Post
That makes sense. I'm hoping the best for you!
In the meantime i found two german guys who also had to deal with the same problem. They both took their projectors to Prime Support. The first one got the whole optical block replaced and everything was working perfectly again. The other one had to cope with Sony's claim that this is reasonable wear and tear of the optical block.
Well, I picked up the projector last Friday and just had a good look at it today. They replaced the Optical Block and included multiple Sencore charts showing gamma and white balance before and after the new block. The gamma is definitely better. There is however a new problem related to the Iris. I set up white balance with Iris OFF and got average de2000 around 1.7. If the iris is then set to Manual or Auto, there is a big increase in Green which is quite obvious visually and the average de2000 is over 5. I have no idea why a new block would interact with the Iris like this but I intend to call Sony again and if necessary it will go back. I suspect that all testing was done with the Iris off based on notes written on the charts.
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post #3607 of 3629 Old 11-21-2014, 07:57 PM
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Did they leave any of the custom settings with their calibrated values that you could try, see if it is stable and compare to your calibrations?

I calibrate with the IRIS Off (otherwise results are unstable). After calibrating I turn it back on (Auto1) and I don't notice green, in fact it looks amazing. I never tried it in Manual so I will try that next time and take some measurements.

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post #3608 of 3629 Old 11-22-2014, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jebj View Post
Well, I picked up the projector last Friday and just had a good look at it today. They replaced the Optical Block and included multiple Sencore charts showing gamma and white balance before and after the new block. The gamma is definitely better. There is however a new problem related to the Iris. I set up white balance with Iris OFF and got average de2000 around 1.7. If the iris is then set to Manual or Auto, there is a big increase in Green which is quite obvious visually and the average de2000 is over 5. I have no idea why a new block would interact with the Iris like this but I intend to call Sony again and if necessary it will go back. I suspect that all testing was done with the Iris off based on notes written on the charts.
interesting news.
would you now send me your "Prime Support Ref" and "Job Number"?
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post #3609 of 3629 Old 11-30-2014, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by masodes View Post
interesting news.
would you now send me your "Prime Support Ref" and "Job Number"?
Masodes, I am still not comfortable giving out the work order number and I don't think that it adds any value. It should be effective to inform your service center that the Toronto Service Center just processed a VW95ES with a similar problem to yours, that the Optical block was replaced and a white balance calibration was performed.

As to my other issue relating to the white balance when the IRIS is used, this is seen because part of the white balance procedure was not completed. There are separate settings for IRIS off, manual IRIS and auto IRIS. The calibrations is performed with IRIS off, then the settings for high, medium, low1, low2 and custom 1-4 should be copied to the corresponding settings with the IRIS set to manual and Auto. I will take it in to have this completed.
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post #3610 of 3629 Old 11-30-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mka View Post
[FONT=Garamond]I've been having a problem with my 95ES lately.
Howdy… I have not followed to see if you received any response, but it sounds like you need a new lamp. My VW90ES recently did the same thing. I tried removing the lamp and putting it back in to see if it reset something, but that didn't work.

Apparently the lamp can simply lose it's ability to "start" and the projector can detect this during the start up cycle.

There are "blinking" error code references available online, and the blinking 3 times means either 1) projector too hot or 2) replace the lamp.

Good luck
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post #3611 of 3629 Old 12-01-2014, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jebj View Post
As to my other issue relating to the white balance when the IRIS is used, this is seen because part of the white balance procedure was not completed. There are separate settings for IRIS off, manual IRIS and auto IRIS. The calibrations is performed with IRIS off, then the settings for high, medium, low1, low2 and custom 1-4 should be copied to the corresponding settings with the IRIS set to manual and Auto. I will take it in to have this completed.

Are these service level settings or do we all have to worry about doing calibration in different IRIS modes at the user level?

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post #3612 of 3629 Old 12-01-2014, 08:47 AM
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Are these service level settings or do we all have to worry about doing calibration in different IRIS modes at the user level?
These are all service mode settings and are set once for the optical block. The user settings will be offsets from the base service mode settings as the lamp and/or projector ages.
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post #3613 of 3629 Old 12-02-2014, 12:16 PM
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Masodes, I recently purchased a new lamp and confirmed that the lamp has nothing to do with the changes. I plan to take the projector in to Sony some time before the end of the year but there is no hurry since I still have more than a year of warranty remaining and I do get good result after spending a few hours with Image Director.

Attached are a couple of screen captures showing the settings and results from my first calibration on the projector in 2012 and a recent measurement using the same settings. For both calibrations RCP is off and the Normal color space is selected. Note the large change to the blue level, the shrunken gamut and the crazy gamma. The results with the new lamp are identical with respect to the gamut, color balance and gamma but the brightness is back up to around 14.5 fL.

After the projector has been serviced I will report on results in this thread.



Thanks for sharing the info.

Right now I have a couple of same cases here. Reduced Gamut, low Gamma, blue shift.
This comes together with a massive contrast loss to 1/10. One machine still has 1400:1 native contrast., the other 2300:1


Did they give Details about the technical reasons?
Probably Panel aging...




Regards...

Last edited by Cine4Home; 12-02-2014 at 12:28 PM.
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post #3614 of 3629 Old 12-02-2014, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
Thanks for sharing the info.

Right now I have a couple of same cases here. Reduced Gamut, low Gamma, blue shift.
This comes together with a massive contrast loss to 1/10. One machine still has 1400:1 native contrast., the other 2300:1


Did they give Details about the technical reasons?
Probably Panel aging...




Regards...
In my case the contrast was lower but nothing extreme.

They did not give any specifics on the technical reason for the problem but were told by Sony Japan to replace the optical block. I only had 500 hours on the unit and always used low lamp. My theater is in the basement and is always cool so heat damage is unlikely. I would suspect a manufacturing defect.

The local support center said that they rarely see these units come in for service.

Regards
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post #3615 of 3629 Old 12-02-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jebj View Post
In my case the contrast was lower but nothing extreme.

They did not give any specifics on the technical reason for the problem but were told by Sony Japan to replace the optical block. I only had 500 hours on the unit and always used low lamp. My theater is in the basement and is always cool so heat damage is unlikely. I would suspect a manufacturing defect.

The local support center said that they rarely see these units come in for service.

Regards


Actually, low usage seems to provoke the Problem.
Right now we have about 20 documented cases (out of about 25 checked machines).
(HW50 / VW90 / VW95)


Everyone is waiting for Sonys reaction right now. That is why it is so interesting that and how your machine got repaired.




Regards..

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post #3616 of 3629 Old 12-02-2014, 09:18 PM
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Interesting. Is this why there was some B-stock (refurbished) units for sale?

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post #3617 of 3629 Old 12-18-2014, 01:26 PM
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Hello, i own new VW90ES (<10hrs of viewing) with oppo bdp-105.
I have awful image quality - noise and artifacts in dark scenes.
It depends on quality of movie of course, but my Panasonic PT-AE2000 doesnt have such issues...
What is the problem? I have no warranty, so this problem should be fixed by myself ((
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post #3618 of 3629 Old 12-18-2014, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonP View Post
Hello, i own new VW90ES (<10hrs of viewing) with oppo bdp-105.
I have awful image quality - noise and artifacts in dark scenes.
It depends on quality of movie of course, but my Panasonic PT-AE2000 doesnt have such issues...
What is the problem? I have no warranty, so this problem should be fixed by myself ((
I've never seen an image like that! Some setting or settings must be way off. The forum needs more information to figure out what. Is that over HDMI? What are your Oppo output settings? What resolution does the Sony say it's receiving? Something's very wrong, but a good chance it's a setting. If you post them all (Oppo and Sony) the folks here will probably figure it out quickly.

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post #3619 of 3629 Old 12-18-2014, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
Thanks for sharing the info.

Right now I have a couple of same cases here. Reduced Gamut, low Gamma, blue shift.
This comes together with a massive contrast loss to 1/10. One machine still has 1400:1 native contrast., the other 2300:1


Did they give Details about the technical reasons?
Probably Panel aging...




Regards...
About 9 months ago I purchased a B-Stock VW90ES and I had a terrible experience regarding contrast. At the time I had a JVC DLA-X90 and a Sharp XV-Z30000 here and both of these units were remarkably better regarding contrast performance. I purchased it through AVScience and after talking with Mike he really didn't know what to tell me. He trusted my judgement as I've owned 40+ unique projector models over the past 3 or 4 years. I was dumbfounded with what I was seeing and I simply concluded there was just an issue with my specific unit. I'm glad to know this is more of a common issue. Assuming this is an issue with the unit not being used much my B-Stock unit must not have gotten a lot of use or sat at the Sony repair facility for an extended period of time before it was sold to AVScience and then me. They were gracious enough to take it back without question but I felt guilty because I'm assuming they probably sold it to someone else who wasn't nearly as familiar with projectors which would have ultimately meant they didn't know the unit wasn't performing as it should.

I never got a chance to take a contrast reading but it looked like it may have had 1500:1 native and ~4500:1 dynamic contrast with the dynamic iris enabled. I must have gone through the menu's 15 times to make sure it wasn't something enabled or set up improperly before I concluded that it had to have been the unit causing the issues.

This makes me wonder about the VW1000/1100ES and the VW300/500/600ES. Sony claims these are "new" panels they created. Do these SXRD panels suffer the same contrast loss if you don't use the unit on a regular basis?

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post #3620 of 3629 Old 12-19-2014, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Pip View Post
I've never seen an image like that! Some setting or settings must be way off. The forum needs more information to figure out what. Is that over HDMI? What are your Oppo output settings? What resolution does the Sony say it's receiving? Something's very wrong, but a good chance it's a setting. If you post them all (Oppo and Sony) the folks here will probably figure it out quickly.

Pip

Cable - HDMI 1.3 Kramer, itworked with Panasonic projector - all was great.

Everywhere in settingsSource resolution is enabled, with the same settings Panasonic worked withoutartefacts.

I tried different colorspace and turning off deep color in oppo - no result (

The bluray i posted hasrather bad picture quality – it was chosen especially to demonstrate troublesin picture quality. On good BD the problem is not so dramatic, but stillexists.
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post #3621 of 3629 Old 12-19-2014, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
About 9 months ago I purchased a B-Stock VW90ES and I had a terrible experience regarding contrast. At the time I had a JVC DLA-X90 and a Sharp XV-Z30000 here and both of these units were remarkably better regarding contrast performance. I purchased it through AVScience and after talking with Mike he really didn't know what to tell me. He trusted my judgement as I've owned 40+ unique projector models over the past 3 or 4 years. I was dumbfounded with what I was seeing and I simply concluded there was just an issue with my specific unit. I'm glad to know this is more of a common issue. Assuming this is an issue with the unit not being used much my B-Stock unit must not have gotten a lot of use or sat at the Sony repair facility for an extended period of time before it was sold to AVScience and then me. They were gracious enough to take it back without question but I felt guilty because I'm assuming they probably sold it to someone else who wasn't nearly as familiar with projectors which would have ultimately meant they didn't know the unit wasn't performing as it should.

I never got a chance to take a contrast reading but it looked like it may have had 1500:1 native and ~4500:1 dynamic contrast with the dynamic iris enabled. I must have gone through the menu's 15 times to make sure it wasn't something enabled or set up improperly before I concluded that it had to have been the unit causing the issues.

This makes me wonder about the VW1000/1100ES and the VW300/500/600ES. Sony claims these are "new" panels they created. Do these SXRD panels suffer the same contrast loss if you don't use the unit on a regular basis?
May be too early to say, but I keep a record of every 500ES I come across and two weeks ago I had one in the low 100's vice the high 800's as of last week I been receiving. Contrast numbers were on par with what I measured when it first came out last year. If anything it appears to me that contrast has actually gotten better in later runs. I just wish the lens quality was much better.

How can the chips lose contrast anyway? I thought it was inorganic..

Last edited by cischico; 12-19-2014 at 05:02 AM.
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post #3622 of 3629 Old 12-19-2014, 06:21 AM
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Official Sony VPL-VW95ES Owners Thread

I got a 95ES contrast ratio (ON/OFF) of 4830
High Lamp
Iris Off
Y max 23.83 fL (post Radiance calibration)

(In Low Lamp:
contrast ratio 4023
Y max 14.25 fL post cal)

Is that good? I had a CRT PJ before so I am not used to failing the "hand puppet" test, even with Iris on!

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Last edited by AVfile; 12-19-2014 at 06:25 AM.
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post #3623 of 3629 Old 12-19-2014, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonP View Post
Hello, i own new VW90ES (<10hrs of viewing) with oppo bdp-105.
I have awful image quality - noise and artifacts in dark scenes.
It depends on quality of movie of course, but my Panasonic PT-AE2000 doesnt have such issues...
What is the problem? I have no warranty, so this problem should be fixed by myself ((
I had a VW90ES that also developed the same condition your pictures show. It was on its first bulb with maybe 1500hrs on it at just about 1 year old. If you measure the gamma I bet it will show a fairly big dive near the upper brightness levels. You will also probably find one of the colors (RGB) doesn't track the others. I sent my unit into sony repair under warranty and they told me they had no more optical blocks but they had a B stock they would give me. Well the B was 10x worse in every way. I said give me my old unit back and they couldn't find it. I got my dealer involved and after lots of back and forth they agreed to send me a new HW50 model. Without the dealer involvement I would have been totally screwed. That HW50 sits unused with maybe 40 hrs on it in my theater. I now use a LED DLP machine. It doesn't do black levels anywhere near what a NEW sony or JVC can but then again it won't ever rot either.

There is a chance you can fix some but not all of your problems with the sony Image Director software that you can find online. It's free and fairly easy to use once you figure out how to hookup your computer to the projector. Just "bend" the problematic RGB curve. You will need a probe and measurement software and a signal generator though.
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Last edited by dryeye; 12-19-2014 at 04:32 PM. Reason: added Image Director information
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post #3624 of 3629 Old Yesterday, 12:58 AM
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I had a VW90ES that also developed the same condition your pictures show. It was on its first bulb with maybe 1500hrs on it at just about 1 year old. If you measure the gamma I bet it will show a fairly big dive near the upper brightness levels. You will also probably find one of the colors (RGB) doesn't track the others. I sent my unit into sony repair under warranty and they told me they had no more optical blocks but they had a B stock they would give me. Well the B was 10x worse in every way. I said give me my old unit back and they couldn't find it. I got my dealer involved and after lots of back and forth they agreed to send me a new HW50 model. Without the dealer involvement I would have been totally screwed. That HW50 sits unused with maybe 40 hrs on it in my theater. I now use a LED DLP machine. It doesn't do black levels anywhere near what a NEW sony or JVC can but then again it won't ever rot either.

There is a chance you can fix some but not all of your problems with the sony Image Director software that you can find online. It's free and fairly easy to use once you figure out how to hookup your computer to the projector. Just "bend" the problematic RGB curve. You will need a probe and measurement software and a signal generator though.
Thank you vey much! What i need except PC and image director software?
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post #3625 of 3629 Old Yesterday, 01:06 AM
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Thank you vey much! What i need except PC and image director software?

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post #3626 of 3629 Old Yesterday, 01:09 AM
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i need smth like COLORMUNKI DESIGN?
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post #3627 of 3629 Old Yesterday, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AntonP View Post
i need smth like COLORMUNKI DESIGN?

No, the i1 Display Pro (also known as EODIS3) would be a better choice.

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post #3628 of 3629 Old Today, 12:27 AM
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but Display pro is colorimeter and Design is spektrofotometr which should be better...no?
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Depends what software you are going to use. Decide software first then head over to the appropriate forum.

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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