Official Sony VPL-VW95ES Owners Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post

True Mark, The Optoma 3D RF kit is lacking of the IR receiver extension and need my special converter cable to work with Sony projectors (this has been fully tested by some french people just last week). True, this special cable is a DIY project but I may build myself some and send them for AVS members.
No cable is required to be linked to the projectir with MV kit : only IR receiver cable hooked to the MV RF dongle. True, Optoma RF kit is using my DIY special cable to work with Sony projectors (30/90/95ES).

By the way, I've sent an email to you about Optoma kit availability from AVS store This is true Mark.
John

John - thanks for the research you did to find the pin-outs on the RJ45 connection. I read through the 35+ page thread on this topic on Kraine's site, lots of HW30 and VW95 fans over there enjoying the MV3D's.
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post #452 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

Everything I've read in every projector thread says to calibrate with the Dynamic Iris completely turned off. It seems confusing, because like you said, you aren't calibrating what you will be seeing, but if you have the DI on, the image is constantly changing, thus you have no constant test platform to do your calibration. The purpose of the calibration is to make sure everything is set correctly at a uniform level. Then, once you have that, you can turn your DI back on if you want to adjust the light levels dynamically with the iris.

A lot of people with Panasonics use DI because they have to. It just doesn't produce quality uniform blacks without it. A lot of people with JVCs will adjust it manually because the projector produces enough black and they don't want the image to change at all. Although the Sony gets better blacks without DI than the Panny, and not quite as good blacks as the JVC without DI, they find the Sony's DI to be pretty much invisible to the eye, and so they use it, allowing their black levels to be pushed even further and to a reference grade quality. No matter what you set it to be, you should still calibrate your projector without DI on.

What you say makes sense.

I guess the fact that the DI has an unknown effect on calibration is one of the reasons that I have advoided projectors with a DI in the past. Fear of the unknown.

Affable Nitwit
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post #453 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

John - thanks for the research you did to find the pin-outs on the RJ45 connection. I read through the 35+ page thread on this topic on Kraine's site, lots of HW30 and VW95 fans over there enjoying the MV3D's.

Yes, A lot of french Sony projectors owners are awaiting for this special cable in Europe since MV kit is almost impossible to find while Optoma kit is widely available here .
I take the opportunity to thank you about your original finding about these RF glasses performances with your Sony VW30ES : you was this initiator of this 3D glasses fever

John

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post #454 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post

...This is true Lovingdvd : MV RF dongle is working nice with Optoma RF glasses and Optoma RF dongle is working nice with MV glasses !
John

I am confused about something here John. Above you say that the Optoma RF dongle works fine with the MV (and Optoma glasses too I presume, of course).

However you also say this above:
Quote:


True Mark, The Optoma 3D RF kit is lacking of the IR receiver extension and need my special converter cable to work with Sony projectors (this has been fully tested by some french people just last week).

What exactly is in the Optoma 3D RF kit? Does it not including the RF dongle? I would think it does. In which case I am confused why you say it would not work, because you just said the Optoma RF dongle works. Unless you are saying the RF dongle does not come in the RF kit, which in itself would be very surprising, because what's is an RF kit without an RF dongle!! Please help us make some sense out of this.
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post #455 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 07:20 AM
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UPDATE:

I put in the filters I ordered from sony and my BR50 glasses work.

Thanks for the tip!
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post #456 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 07:23 AM
 
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OK. let's get this through my head.

First, the Monster glasses and the Optoma glasses will work with either the Monster emitter or the Optoma emitter. (I knew that one anyway guys).

We refer to cable and dongles and emitters. Exactly what are we refering to with the use of the word dongle? I would think that a special converter cable like the DIYs here is a dongle.

The two emitters are pretty much the same BUT the Monster if placed near an IR emitter will pick up the IR beam and retransmit it as IR. The emitter still needs to be powered and one can do so in a variety of ways. The Monster emitter can be hooked up directly to to certain IR oputs on projectors. Does it comes with a cable permitting this?

The Sony projector can not be hooked up directly to the Monster emitter without a DIY adaptor cable but since the emitter can be placed to pick up the IR beam from the projector this is no problem provided the emitter can be powered.


The Optomoa emitter does not have a built in IR receiver. It can be directly hooked up via a supplied IR input cable to various projectors with IR outs. But not the Sony. The Sony's require a special DIY cable to hook up to the Optoma emitter.

John. Your up.
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post #457 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 07:30 AM
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@ lovingDVD - the way I am reading it, my guess is that the IR receiver is not included in the Optoma kit. Which makes sense since the Optoma projector that the kit was 'designed' for uses the 3 pin VESA connector.

There may be a way to order the IR receiver directly from Monster or Bit Cauldron.
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post #458 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frontside720 View Post

UPDATE:

I put in the filters I ordered from sony and my BR50 glasses work.

Thanks for the tip!


Your welkomme


dj
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post #459 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

@ lovingDVD - the way I am reading it, my guess is that the IR receiver is not included in the Optoma kit. Which makes sense since the Optoma projector that the kit was 'designed' for uses the 3 pin VESA connector.

Exactly : the IR receiver "cable" is only sold with MV kit, not Optoma since Optoma is using Bit Cauldron designed RF glasses with the RF dongle feeded with a standard 3 point VESA cord
Quote:


There may be a way to order the IR receiver directly from Monster or Bit Cauldron.

Dunno, worth to ask. This will not presume to work with Optoma Dongle depending on the internal firmware limitation ...

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post #460 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

We refer to cable and dongles and emitters. Exactly what are we refering to with the use of the word dongle? I would think that a special converter cable like the DIYs here is a dongle.

No Sorry Mark, The name "Dongle" is refering the 3D VESA converter and the RF transmitter to the glasses. This is this part of the kit only :

The DIY special cable is the part that is used to connect the Sony VW30/90/95ES to the dongle (through its TRRS 3.5mm jack). It also powering the dongle to be free of an external AC adaptor (the Projector is providing the DC power).

About the MonsterVision "3D sync IR receiver" : this is a special cable that have a small black box with a circular IR window on one end and a TRRS 3.5mm jack on the other end. This function is an option that is NOT built-in inside the dongle. here is a picture of this option (far top/left corner) :

FYI, the powering of the dongle in this wiring is required through the mini-USB input with the need of an external AC adaptor or USB port from a Master Device (AV/AMP, Bluray player, etc.)

Sure, you can't use my special DIY cable while using the MV "3D sync IR receiver" cable in the same time...

Hope this makes things clearer ...

John

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post #461 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

@ lovingDVD - the way I am reading it, my guess is that the IR receiver is not included in the Optoma kit. Which makes sense since the Optoma projector that the kit was 'designed' for uses the 3 pin VESA connector.

There may be a way to order the IR receiver directly from Monster or Bit Cauldron.


That I think is the main difference - so for us Sony owners the MV kit is the way to go ( because we need the IR to RF converter OR make John´s cable IF you dont want to use the inbuild transmitter/ and the Sony glasses at the same time )

Now where do a europe guy ( like me ) buy the MV !!????, because here it is almost impossible to get ( I tried Monster´s own internatiol dealer i Sweden - no luck, did almost not know WTF I was talking about.

Monster´s own site do not sell out off US.

DO AVS ???


dj


BTW yes, zombie10k, thanks for the good work with finding the "best" 3D glasses for Sony projectors
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post #462 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

That I think is the main difference - so for us Sony owners the MV kit is the way to go ( because we need the IR to RF converter OR make John´s cable IF you dont want to use the inbuild transmitter/ and the Sony glasses at the same time )

Now where do a europe guy ( like me ) buy the MV !!????, because here it is almost impossible to get ( I tried Monster´s own internatiol dealer i Sweden - no luck, did almost not now WTF I was talking about.

Monster´s own site do not sell out off US.

DO AVS ???


dj


BTW yes, zombie10k, thanks for the good work with finding the "best" 3D glasses for Sony projectors

Hopefully AVS can help, I also believe www.bhvideo.com is a monster dealer and will sell internationally. This is one of the US's largest photography/video companies located in New York City.
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post #463 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

OR make John´s cable IF you dont want to use the inbuild transmitter/ and the Sony glasses at the same time )

My case since I will not use the crappy Sony glasses anymore

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post #464 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 08:10 AM
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Am I correct that the Sony VW95 does not have a USB port? If so that would make it handy for getting power to the Monster dongle, but it doesn't look like it in which case we'll have to use an AC/USB adapter. Not a big deal but would be cleaner if the Sony has a USB.
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post #465 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 08:11 AM
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Lawguy - check your PM

thanks
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post #466 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Am I correct that the Sony VW95 does not have a USB port? If so that would make it handy for getting power to the Monster dongle, but it doesn't look like it in which case we'll have to use an AC/USB adapter. Not a big deal but would be cleaner if the Sony has a USB.

You're right see :

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post #467 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 08:20 AM
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Hello,thrang

How do you find Sony 95es vs JVC RS50,both in 2D and 3D(i have JVC RS20).

Thanks
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post #468 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 10:26 AM
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Just to clarify before I start climbing around:

I have the Monster Vision 3d kit (4 of them, as I struggled to find the glasses on their own for shipping to UK). I take the IR convertor, plug that into the RF reciever thing, and..... place it somewhere. I think Joe said he sellotaped it to the projector (?).

The DIY cable sounds mighty intruiging, but just to get it hooked up to test am I on the right lines here?

I've already updated the firmware, and the glasses are charging. I can use a laptop to tweak using a suitable scene like Zombie10k sugggests, starting from 2020 and 80%, I'm just not entirely sure I understand what people are doing in terms of placement of the dongle. Guess I need to work out how to supply USB power too, eh?

Cheers!

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post #469 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJayRFU View Post

Just to clarify before I start climbing around:

I have the Monster Vision 3d kit (4 of them, as I struggled to find the glasses on their own for shipping to UK). I take the IR convertor, plug that into the RF reciever thing, and..... place it somewhere. I think Joe said he sellotaped it to the projector (?).

The DIY cable sounds mighty intruiging, but just to get it hooked up to test am I on the right lines here?

I've already updated the firmware, and the glasses are charging. I can use a laptop to tweak using a suitable scene like Zombie10k sugggests, starting from 2020 and 80%, I'm just not entirely sure I understand what people are doing in terms of placement of the dongle. Guess I need to work out how to supply USB power too, eh?

Cheers!

CDJay

Hi, if you look at joerods VW95 review, he posted photos of how he pointed the IR receiver at the Sony emitter. It's pretty much just taped to the front. You can use any blackberry micro-usb charger, they work great to power to the RF emitter.
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post #470 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 11:46 AM
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Guys - what user mode/setting is the most neutral on the Sony in terms of its CMS, grayscale and gamma. Just wondering what is the best baseline for a calibration where all these things will be tweaked (no sense having the Sony applying all sorts of expanded gamuts etc just for me to be reducing them etc).
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post #471 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hopefully AVS can help, I also believe www.bhvideo.com is a monster dealer and will sell internationally. This is one of the US's largest photography/video companies located in New York City.

Thanks zombie10k

dj
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post #472 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Guys - what user mode/setting is the most neutral on the Sony in terms of its CMS, grayscale and gamma. Just wondering what is the best baseline for a calibration where all these things will be tweaked (no sense having the Sony applying all sorts of expanded gamuts etc just for me to be reducing them etc).


I think it was:

Cinema 1
gamma off ( around 2.2 ) or 4 for batcaves ( around 2.35 )
color temp: low 1/ custom 3
color space: normal


dj
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post #473 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 12:43 PM
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In case anyone has had difficulty following the MonsterVision vs Optoma kit, here it is detailed simply.

The kits and glasses are the technically the same and are designed by Bit Cauldron and merely rebadged. The difference in the kits is what is included.

The kit supplies an RF emitter to sync via RF with the glasses. The RF emitter (which John calls the dongle) has 2 cable connection inputs. The RF emitter dongle has to be powered via a micro USB to USB cable. In addition, to receive a sync signal, the RF emitter must also have either a separate IR receiver plugged in, or a direct VESA port cable connector for displays with these types of ports.

The MV kit supplies 4 cables with the RF emitter.
1) A USB to micro USB cable to power the emitter
2) An IR receiver to 3.5 that when plugged in, receives IR from a displays IR emitter and allows the dongle to translate it to an RF signal for the Bit Cauldron glasses
3) A VESA to 3.5 cable that allows the RF emitter to be connected directly to a display that has a VESA port for external emitters
4) An additional USB to micro USB cable for charging the glasses

The Optoma kit lacks #2.

#3 cannot be plugged directly into the Sony external emitter port.

John has figured the pinouts to the Sony port and is making a custom cable that can connect a Bit Cauldron RF emitter to it. Using this cable allows the Bit Cauldron RF emitter dongle to directly receive the Sony shutter glasses sync signal. Connecting this cable to the Sony port disables the built-in emitter exactly as it would if you plugged in a Sony external emitter.

For US users, the optimal option due to differences in pricing appears to be buying 1 MV kit plus as many additional Optoma glasses as needed since this route allows you to use the IR to RF conversion, which means you can use the Bit Cauldron glasses AND the Sony glasses simultaneously, if you wind up with more viewers than you have Bit Cauldron glasses for.

For our friends in Europe though, the MV kit and glasses are hard to get, so their options are to use John's cable, which means disabling the Sony glasses, or praying that AVS (or BHP photo?) will be willing to ship MV kits to Europe.


Max
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post #474 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 01:00 PM
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max - good summary. I also recommend the MV3D kit since you get the IR receiver. It allows for a quick 123 setup and lets us use the Sony glasses as well.

I've used 2 Sony adult glasses, the 2 Sony kids glasses and 4 of the MV3D's all at the same time with no problem.
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post #475 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Great summary... I've add a link to your post on the on first page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

In case anyone has had difficulty following the MonsterVision vs Optoma kit, here it is detailed simply.

The kits and glasses are the technically the same and are designed by Bit Cauldron and merely rebadged. The difference in the kits is what is included.

The kit supplies an RF emitter to sync via RF with the glasses. The RF emitter (which John calls the dongle) has 2 cable connection inputs. The RF emitter dongle has to be powered via a micro USB to USB cable. In addition, to receive a sync signal, the RF emitter must also have either a separate IR receiver plugged in, or a direct VESA port cable connector for displays with these types of ports.

The MV kit supplies 4 cables with the RF emitter.
1) A USB to micro USB cable to power the emitter
2) An IR receiver to 3.5 that when plugged in, receives IR from a displays IR emitter and allows the dongle to translate it to an RF signal for the Bit Cauldron glasses
3) A VESA to 3.5 cable that allows the RF emitter to be connected directly to a display that has a VESA port for external emitters
4) An additional USB to micro USB cable for charging the glasses

The Optoma kit lacks #2.

#3 cannot be plugged directly into the Sony external emitter port.

John has figured the pinouts to the Sony port and is making a custom cable that can connect a Bit Cauldron RF emitter to it. Using this cable allows the Bit Cauldron RF emitter dongle to directly receive the Sony shutter glasses sync signal. Connecting this cable to the Sony port disables the built-in emitter exactly as it would if you plugged in a Sony external emitter.

For US users, the optimal option due to differences in pricing appears to be buying 1 MV kit plus as many additional Optoma glasses as needed since this route allows you to use the IR to RF conversion, which means you can use the Bit Cauldron glasses AND the Sony glasses simultaneously, if you wind up with more viewers than you have Bit Cauldron glasses for.

For our friends in Europe though, the MV kit and glasses are hard to get, so their options are to use John's cable, which means disabling the Sony glasses, or praying that AVS (or BHP photo?) will be willing to ship MV kits to Europe.


Max

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post #476 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 01:12 PM
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Max, One more stupid question, the RF Emitter can be powered via either of the HDMI inputs on the Sony, correct?
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post #477 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by md1953 View Post

Max, One more stupid question, the RF Emitter can be powered via either of the HDMI inputs on the Sony, correct?

HDMI? Did you mean cannot instead of can?

The emitter needs an open/available USB port, or a charger (like a phone charger) with a USB port. Powered USB ports provide 5v through the cable (although some really old USB ports are not powered). HDMI on the other hand, does not provide power.


Max
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post #478 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I had tried calibrating with the iris on manual a few times as well, but did not get as good results. However, the sensor was closer than my final attempt for the evening, and the iris was set at 75.

So I can try again at the further distance and a lower manual iris.

Are you suggesting doing the gamma first with manual iris, then greyscale and cms afterward with DI on? Or everything with DI off?

I'll also do an off the screen measurement as the Duo bug apparently is only affecting off the lens readings.

Yes, as some other posters already mentioned, I would calibrate EVERYTHING with DI=OFF... especially gamma/grayscale.

The reason being that GAMMA is defined as the curve of the various light output level (between 0%-100%) WITHIN a FRAME. Therefore, when you paused your movie, GAMMA is the relationship between the black and white (and everything in between) and how bright/dim they are with respect to each other, again, within that particular FRAME/scene. Notice that with that FRAME, the IRIS opening will be constant. The DI only have effect when you change to a different FRAME or scene...
Now, consider when you have DI ON and during calibration on grayscale.. when you project a 10% test pattern, the DI detect that it is not that bright, so it will close the IRIS down more to give you better black. When you project say a 70% WHITE test pattern, the IRIS will open up as it should be brighter.
If you calibrate your projector with those different IRIS setting, then you are not calibrating a single "FRAME", because the IRIS opening is different. You are probably calibrating 10 different "moving" frames and they probably do not have any relationship with each other... as the base 0% and 100% changes for each IRIS setting.
Hope this help. I know it sounds confusing, but hopefully if you read it a few times, you will understand.
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post #479 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 01:52 PM
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Brain fart. I meant USB, not HDMI, and the projector does not have a USB port. It looks like a Blackberry charger will work (mini USB) as it outputs 5VDC, 750 ma.
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post #480 of 3582 Old 11-07-2011, 01:58 PM
 
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NPR is reporting Sony, Panasonic To Stop Manufacturing TVs
http://www.npr.org/2011/11/07/142089...ufacturing-tvs

I'm sorry to hear this news. Hopefully its for flat panels only as the 95 looks like a great, fair priced projector.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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Sony Vpl Vw95es Full Hd 3d Home Cinema Projector

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