Official Sony VPL-VW95ES Owners Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

One last OT post for me....Maybe yes, maybe no. I'd bet they are refined every year and they are claiming improved contrast on the 55 & 65...

Ok, let's put it this way: if the panels would be *substantially* improved/refined, JVC would shout it from the rooftops...

The real problem is that JVC headquarters in Japan think their motion handling is just fine. Thus they have, in their opinion, no reason to improve it. Otherwise it would be pretty easy for them to license state of the art 3rd party FI tech and integrate it in their PJs. But as long as their PJs sell on contrast alone, they won't.
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post #542 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

If you put up a 50 or 60% grey field, you can see a faint broad area of green on one side, red on the other. This was the same I noticed with my 85...

Did you look for this or notice this on the VW90 that you had as well?
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post #543 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 06:45 AM
 
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Lawguy. I am not responding to your specific post here but I just found the last line of your post amusing. I think it is silly for you to waste a hope wish that you are wrong when that would be the normal state.

BTW. In some other thread on delivery dates for JVC orders, you stated that it will be earlier or later than last year. Besides omitting the obvious third and fourth choices of it being the same, or even never, what about the other 17 possibilities and the reasoning to support such choices? BTW It also has nothing to do with who JVC likes.
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post #544 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

That's great if jvc has made those improvements - it only helps to have more good choices...I think part of my decision not to wait was jvc's very poor response to so many issues - while I didn't have the bulb dimming issue, I certainly could have, so I felt for those that did. Their cmd was jadroole for several iterations in a row too...

Thrang - thanks for the comparison to the RS50. My particular RS50 is also exceptionally sharp on my 142" screen which is why I've been hesitating to get rid of it. Right now I use the RS50 10-20% of the time for 2D blurays and the HW30 for everything else.

JVC sent many folks over to Sony this year due to the poor way they handled the issues with the 50/60 last year.

Comparing the 1/2 price HW30 to the RS50, these are some items JVC would need to show an improvement on with the new models:
  • colors out of the box. I lose too many lumens just trying to adjust the JVC gray scale to D65 whereas the HW30 is nearly dead on out of the box.

  • motion - Sports / Formula 1 - I lean towards the Sony every time. especially with MF on low.. excellent. JVC CMD needs a major retune.

  • 3D - no competition.. by a mile here. Even with a new lamp vs. new lamp. No apparent 'warm up' time and I doubt there will be an issue with ghosting as the lamp ages like we see with the JVC. Add in the MV3D's (see the screenshots in my signature) and we're looking at near perfect ghost free 3D which is bright on my HP screen. The MV3D 'tuning trick' does not work on the JVC's to help reduce ghosting.

  • 3D - FI in 3D. this can't be understated how excellent this on the Sony. it creates a rock solid, flicker free image through the glasses. The slower refresh without the FI on the JVC is flicker city. I can watch the 3D on the Sony with FI turned on for hours on end and my eyes never feel tired.

I hope JVC can make specific, measurable improvements in these areas to compete with the VW95. the lamp issue is the biggest concern. We won't know the results until a few months from now if this has truely been improved in some way. meanwhile, the Sony lamp is literally 1/2 the price of the JVC with no reported issues yet. How they did it, I don't know.


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post #545 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Lawguy. I am not responding to your specific post here but I just found the last line of your post amusing. I think it is silly for you to waste a hope wish that you are wrong when that would be the normal state.

BTW. In some other thread on delivery dates for JVC orders, you stated that it will be earlier or later than last year. Besides omitting the obvious third and fourth choices of it being the same, or even never, what about the other 17 possibilities and the reasoning to support such choices? BTW It also has nothing to do with who JVC likes.

Yes. I am wrong a lot. Ask my wife. She will tell you everything I have been wrong about for the last 15 years. Actually, you don't have to ask. Jsut mention me and she'll just volunteer the information.

Also, over the years I somehow lost the ability to make any statement of opinion without qualifying it in some way. The reason that I like contrast so much on my projectors is that I lost the ability to see the world in black and white.

Affable Nitwit
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post #546 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

I only have a 1.0 gain screen (Seymour AT), wondering if anyone that got this PJ had similar screen and what's their opinion on 3D brightness? I saw very good result in high-gain screen.. but wondering if this is a more a requirement or nice to have....

I have a Black Diamond 1.4 Gain and the 3D brightness is amazing. I watched Tahiti Wave Imax last night and was blown away again.

Hope this helps
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post #547 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 07:12 AM
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For someone like me, it comes down to what I can do with the money. The answer is I can get me a JVC RS-45 for movies and SCI FI, and a DLP for everything else. The don't want to have two projectors argument just does not fly with me, but to each their own. Now I have a setup that matches the Sony in motion, 3D, sharpness, brightness, dark scenes, sports, and nearly matches it in lamp life. Hence take some of the best DLP's that are so bright you will most likely get a lot more lamp life than a Sony, so you average that into just using the JVC for movies, etc...

If I'm watching something that I suddenly think, wow wish I had a little better motion, I flip a switch on the remote and now I am watching a DLP. For me personally, you just can't beat a DLP for motion. Before I even use that many lamps on the JVC, I can just sell the RS-45 next year, and get the next gen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but other then watching sports or non-24-fps stuff in general, the JVC motion and Sony motion will look close enough in movies, unless someone likes FI instead of 24fps.

But then there are external algorithms I can use through an HTPC for this if I really want to, of course a little bit more trouble, but not the end of the world. Now I don't know if any of the FI you can overlay on top of a bluray playing on an HTPC are any good, but I'm sure I can find something if I really want to mess with it.

For the calibration issues (if there are any big color space issues on the RS-45, which it should be close enough anyhow), then I can just buy an external video processor if I really want to.

I know people will say they cannot do a dual-projector setup, well then I'm sure the Sony is a better deal, as the JVC is best in a dual projector setup for sure....



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post #548 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Yes. I am wrong a lot. Ask my wife. She will tell you everything I have been wrong about for the last 15 years. Actually, you don't have to ask. Jsut mention me and she'll just volunteer the information.

That pretty much sums it up for just about every male on the planet!
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post #549 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 07:37 AM
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Great thing about using projectors in every room instead of TV's in the winter is you can heat your entire house.



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post #550 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 07:46 AM
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The RS45 is so cheap this year because it is a rebadged RS40! LMAO
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post #551 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 07:48 AM
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Which works great for movies and SCI FI, it is the best projector in that price range for that purpose.

I'd put a dual setup (DLP + LCOS) up against the Sony cost-for-cost and PQ-for-PQ. I'm sure the Sony by itself will still have some advantages (contrast in 3D), but overall I prefer this setup. There will be advantages/disadvantages even to a dual-setup vs. a single Sony vw95es, but for my purposes, my advantages outweigh your advantages.

If I were to go with the Sony vw95, I'd still want a secondary DLP, then that'd get way more expensive.



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post #552 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 08:01 AM
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I have adjust the user1 settings which is based on cinema1. I the lamp control is still at high and using gamma8 for correction. The color space is LOW1 and sharpness is at min. Here are the shots using Canon 5D-MKII with a 2.8L len.

Notice that the pink like color shift at the high white background. Seems like not related to the areas.
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post #553 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Which works great for movies and SCI FI, it is the best projector in that price range for that purpose.

I'd put a dual setup (DLP + LCOS) up against the Sony cost-for-cost and PQ-for-PQ. I'm sure the Sony by itself will still have some advantages (contrast in 3D), but overall I prefer this setup. There will be advantages/disadvantages even to a dual-setup vs. a single Sony vw95es, but for my purposes, my advantages outweigh your advantages.

If I were to go with the Sony vw95, I'd still want a secondary DLP, then that'd get way more expensive.

The way I see it, in your dual setup you will always have contrast *or* good motion handling, but never at the same time. With the VW95 you'll have everything, all the time. Easy choice for me...
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post #554 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 08:03 AM
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One more shot of test patter and rest are from the Sony demo Bluray disk in 2D playback.
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post #555 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 08:05 AM
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More shots from the demo disk.
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post #556 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 08:08 AM
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Some more shots from the demo disk.
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post #557 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 08:10 AM
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Too many shots.
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post #558 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine View Post

The way I see it, in your dual setup you will always have contrast *or* good motion handling, but never at the same time. With the VW95 you'll have everything, all the time. Easy choice for me...

The only thing I really need high native contrast for is movies which are generally 24fps, the JVC's motion isn't bad for movies, I've watched much older projectors for movies and the motion does not bother me. As far as the FI in movies, never cared for it really, but there are other alternatives.

For the contrast thing, there just aren't enough dark scenes when motion becomes important for me to really care, I'd rather have absolute sharpness and DLP motion then more native contrast when I do not need it. Admittedly, there are still advantages/disadvantages to each setup, but for me the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, that doesn't mean for everyone they will.

Perhaps the vw95es can get that same level of DLP pop, but not at the same price as what I'm doing.



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post #559 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 08:12 AM
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And some more.
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post #560 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 08:14 AM
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And some shots from the morning TV programs.
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post #561 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Here is some in 3D, taken last night. ( I just put the camera behind the left glas )

the first is without glasses.
2. is the Sony glasses ( PJ-1 )
3. is the Xpand 103

dj

Thanks for the pics dj, they look great! The Xpands look better to me since the Sonys show a slightly yellow tint to the picture. The Xpands have more natural colors it seems. I'm sure the Monsters/Optomas will look similar to the Xpands.
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post #562 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 09:01 AM
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Other than motion, how does the 2d picture compare between these 2 ?
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post #563 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Thanks for the pics dj, they look great! The Xpands look better to me since the Sonys show a slightly yellow tint to the picture. The Xpands have more natural colors it seems. I'm sure the Monsters/Optomas will look similar to the Xpands.

the Xpand 103's are my least favorite in regard to color tint when I compared the Sony vs. 103 vs MV3D's.

I think each digital camera is going to interpret the colors differently, so this has to be taken into account when viewing the screen shots.

In my signature link, the thread shows the raw 3D image, Sony, Xpand and MV3D's using a Nikon D90.


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post #564 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Which works great for movies and SCI FI, it is the best projector in that price range for that purpose.

I'd put a dual setup (DLP + LCOS) up against the Sony cost-for-cost and PQ-for-PQ. I'm sure the Sony by itself will still have some advantages (contrast in 3D), but overall I prefer this setup. There will be advantages/disadvantages even to a dual-setup vs. a single Sony vw95es, but for my purposes, my advantages outweigh your advantages.

If I were to go with the Sony vw95, I'd still want a secondary DLP, then that'd get way more expensive.

Slightly different approach. Dual projectors, but in different rooms. New RS45 in dedicated room for movies and DLP in family room for TV. Also have a older DLP in dedicated room for gaming for my son.

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post #565 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

If you want to make sure, here's a quick test you can do. Put on one of the snowy mountain scenes from the first LOTR movie. Can you notice any color uniformity issues in the snowy mountain backdrop in those scenes? I have found snowy mountain scenes like this and from other movies to do a very good job revealing any color uniformity issues. Another type of scene which is very good is a bright, clear blue sky, or even a very cloudy one, that fills up most of the screen.

If you cannot see it in such scenes even if gawking for it, that truly is good to hear. In some cases projectors can produce odd issues specifically with a test pattern which does not reveal itself with real material. Just have to hope there is not a movie one day about test patterns.



Please don't bother on my account especially if you have to make it over saturated to see it - I don't think I'd want to see it.

Generally, watching a hockey game is similarly revealing for this kind of issue, and I do not see it present when viewing games.


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post #566 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 09:10 AM
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So Thrang I'm not that crazy for not finding to much wrong with the 95?

No, of course not - you are crazy for completely unrelated reasons!


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post #567 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

it seems like the eshift is running at 120hz and thus great motion at 120hz with no FI. The thing is I wonder if the FI and eshift can be used at the same time?

Thrang, Any issues with color fringing? Have you used both FI and Film projection mode at the same time for the best motion results?

I played with this briefly last night, and need to do more viewing, but no artifacts, an the image seemed even a bit clearer in terms of motion...And so far, I cannot get it to fringe in any mode with any material.

A little more amplification on the FI modes between the Sony, Panny, and JVC. The JVC's is just poor; in low (3), I don't think it does much, and in high mode (4), it tends to artifact easily. Modes 1 and 2, for film, playback, I see flashes of color not unlike a DLP rainbow effect - I suppose the panels cannot keep up with whatever the processing is doing.

The Panny artifacts even in low mode (compression halo's around faster moving objects), and was a larger disappointment in this area.

The Sony show almost no artifacting - occasionally I'll see some colorization in areas of fast motion changes, but really nothing to speak of regarding the halos one might see in other displays.


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post #568 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by unidisk View Post

And some shots from the morning TV programs.

Great shots...I have the same Canon DSLR, so may be I can improve my shots...what settings did you use on the camera?


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post #569 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 09:38 AM
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Great shots...I have the same Canon DSLR, so may be I can improve my shots...what settings did you use on the camera?

I use neutral and shot in raw format. The camera is on the tripod.
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post #570 of 3585 Old 11-08-2011, 09:42 AM
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I use neutral and shot in raw format. The camera is on the tripod.

Automatic, or some combination of manual aperture/shutter speed?


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