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post #721 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 02:54 PM
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[quote=lovingdvd;21195998]


dj - can you take a look at something for us? As you may have read about, Thrang reported that he sees color shift on a 40% full field pattern (solid gray) on his VW95. Said part of the screen looks very slightly pinkish and greenish on the other side. Said it is not visible on any real world material.
If you pull up this pattern can you see what Thrang sees?




lovingdvd

With a 40% full field pattern there are the slightish ( very little, but its there ) reddish to the left in the screen - never seen any on real life content.

pic 3833 40% full field pattern on my Studiotek 130

pic3834 40% full field pattern on my 2.8 gain screen


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post #722 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

This can only be true if the blu-ray player is outputting 96htz. I don't believe this to be the case.

I think it's outputting 48htz ( 2x24 )

Then any additional processing is being done inside the display.

I think you are correct on the other points.

48htz per eye with FI off and 96htz with FI on.

So 96htz x 2 is 192htz total output.

A reason JVC can not do FI on 3D with only 120htz panels...



Sorry, I dont get this ?

The bluray send 24P framepacked and then the projector take left eye frame and send it twice and then the right eye frame and send it twice = 2 x 24 ( L1 ) + 2x 24 ( R1 ) = 96 frames pr sec ( 2 x 48 L1/R1 ) or do I misunderstand what you say?

dj


Just did look one more time what you wrote: you did mean out off the Bluray player?
NOT out off the projector, correct ? then I did misunderstand the question - sorry
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post #723 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Hey d.j. I love those pictures that you took! Can you please take more in 2D? I think they would be even better if you take them a little closer to the screen.



Just for fun, this is from TV and first picture is with the Studiotek and the second is 2.8 gain screen.

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post #724 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:27 PM
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this is again from TV( PVR) and first picture is with the Studiotek and the second is 2.8 gain screen.


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post #725 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

this isagain from TV( PVR) and first picture is with the Studiotek and the second is 2.8 gain screen.


dj

In BOTH Frames - I preferred the Studiotek - it appeared closer to natural
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post #726 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:30 PM
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SED <--- Rules

This is just for you

2D on the high gain a little closer

dj
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post #727 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post


In BOTH Frames - I preferred the Studiotek - it appeared closer to natural

I have to agree. The HG seemed a bit washed out (granted I am viewing the photos on a phone)
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post #728 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by WhereToStart View Post

I have to agree. The HG seemed a bit washed out (granted I am viewing the photos on a phone)

Even on the Computer that is what you see
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post #729 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

In BOTH Frames - I preferred the Studiotek - it appeared closer to natural

I agree, but I have to say that the high gain pictures see a little overexposed (?)out - like the peak white is cliped - washed out - ( it dosnt, when I look at it - so probely the camera ( I give that the blame everytime - not the photograf )

But the colors on the Studio do look a little more saturated and "real" and black is better.
The high gain gives more "pop" and looks more like a big tv.


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post #730 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

But the colors on the Studio do look a little more saturated and "real" and black is better.
dj

Yes that is what I saw
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post #731 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

SED <--- Rules

This is just for you

2D on the high gain a little closer

dj

Very nice d.j. thank you! Wow this projector looks great!
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post #732 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

this is again from TV( PVR) and first picture is with the Studiotek and the second is 2.8 gain screen.


dj

I agree that the Studiotek looks better...more natural and not overly bright like the HP screen. I wonder what difference, if any, is there between the Studiotek 130 and the Carada Brilliant White 1.4 gain that I want to buy with the Sony 95?
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post #733 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 04:25 PM
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I can't tell from your screenshots because the camera may be adding or subtracting color. Were you able to see any color uniformity issues whatsoever like Thrang saw? And did you do these tests with or without the settings like motion flow and sharpness which can impact the results?
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post #734 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

But the colors on the Studio do look a little more saturated and "real" and black is better.
The high gain gives more "pop" and looks more like a big tv.

If the 95 is like some previous Sony's then if you aren't enabling the dynamic iris you could shut the manual iris down for the HP and possibly help native on/off CR (so deeper absolute black at the same white level off the screen) and if you are using the DI there are adjustments in the service menu for how open the iris can go and how closed it can go, where you could lower the values for the higher gain screen and again start with higher native on/off CR. However, I'm not sure if changing those things in the service menu is completely safe as far as side effects.

--Darin

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post #735 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 04:56 PM
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[quote=d.j.;21196431]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post



dj - can you take a look at something for us? As you may have read about, Thrang reported that he sees color shift on a 40% full field pattern (solid gray) on his VW95. Said part of the screen looks very slightly pinkish and greenish on the other side. Said it is not visible on any real world material.
If you pull up this pattern can you see what Thrang sees?




lovingdvd

With a 40% full field pattern there are the slightish ( very little, but its there ) reddish to the left in the screen - never seen any on real life content.

pic 3833 40% full field pattern on my Studiotek 130

pic3834 40% full field pattern on my 2.8 gain screen


dj


OK, thanks. Is this with your motionflow on and sharpness etc and does that impact this?

Do you also see this on a 90% or 100% full field? That would be potentially problematic, because there are times when we in real movies or shows they to go all white. Or even in a bright cloud sky etc.

Thrang - based on dj's settings is this what you are seeing?

Others with the VW95 - can you reproduce this as well?
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post #736 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

If the 95 is like some previous Sony's then if you aren't enabling the dynamic iris you could shut the manual iris down for the HP and possibly help native on/off CR (so deeper absolute black at the same white level off the screen) and if you are using the DI there are adjustments in the service menu for how open the iris can go and how closed it can go, where you could lower the values for the higher gain screen and again start with higher native on/off CR. However, I'm not sure if changing those things in the service menu is completely safe as far as side effects.

--Darin

Hey Darin - great to see you participating here. I (barely) remember the service menu tweaks for the DI we were doing on the Ruby, but not the details.

Can you refresh my memory? We were cranking the top end higher and bottom end lower? Thereby further increasing lumens and the DI on/off CR?

If doing so creates a benefit, I have to wonder then why Sony wouldn't ship it like that. Maybe it is too slow from open to close if they were to do that.

Anyone care to guess where these settings are in the service menu?
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post #737 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post



Just for fun, this is from TV and first picture is with the Studiotek and the second is 2.8 gain screen.

dj

I agree with everyone as well. The StudioTek pics look much better. In the pictures with the runners, look down the street in both pictures. With the high gain screen the far end of the street is over exposed looking.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

I agree that the Studiotek looks better...more natural and not overly bright like the HP screen. I wonder what difference, if any, is there between the Studiotek 130 and the Carada Brilliant White 1.4 gain that I want to buy with the Sony 95?

I had a ST130 with my Sony G70, but when I went digital with A-lens and scope screen of 120x51 the Stewart was price prohibitive. The reviews at the time comparing ST130 with Carada BW 1.4, which some had measured at 1.1, was so close that even though Stewart had a slight upper hand the differences being reported and the cost differential to me made Carada the choice. I don't know if the new Carada's measure closer to the advertised gain. I didn't have the opportunity to compare each screen with the same pj , but the PQ on the Carada left nothing wanting, at least in a bat cave room. I believe the Stewart does stay accurate at 1.3 gain, but whether the .2 difference would make a viewable difference may require A/B viewing to appreciate. And I believe Carada still has the significant cost advantage over the Stewart.
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post #739 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 07:27 PM
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I think some of you guys are taking overexposed shots of an HP screen out of context - this isn't what it looks like in person.

These are manual exposures on a D90, 142" 2.8HP screen to match the similar brightness and IQ I am seeing with the eyes. 3D on this screen is something to be seen, it's very bright.



















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post #740 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 08:10 PM
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very nice Zombie. Is this the HW30 ?
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since i will be a newlywed i will have to ask permission. :d

im going to puke! :d
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Wait till he wakes up the the morning after and feels a string tied around a certain portion of his anatomy, though many of us married folks have adapted quite nicely to being a human yo yo.

Remember those yo yo tricks like around the world and walking the dog?

Joe. Can you say woof?

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im going to puke! :d

Kidding!

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Wait till he wakes up the the morning after and feels a string tied around a certain portion of his anatomy, though many of us married folks have adapted quite nicely to being a human yo yo.

Remember those yo yo tricks like around the world and walking the dog?

Joe. Can you say woof?

BTW. Congratulations.

Thanks Mark.

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Check out my Dolby Atmos/Surround first take:

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post #745 of 3588 Old 11-10-2011, 09:53 PM
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So not that this will help others much since our setups are so different, but here is my current calibration (thanks the Ric and Tom Huffman for helping me out with this work in progress - as I've noticed and Ric has pointed out, there are some issues with the final measurements, so more work needs to done...)

While the DVDO Duo greatly helped calibrating my Panny 7000, I could not get it to do a better job over manually calibrating the Sony, so I'm returning it - will possibly try a Lumagen Mini 3D to see how it works.

These measurements and adjustments are off my screen, about a foot away - Dalite High Power 2.8, 133" diagonal, about a 15.5 foot throw.

I'll try some off the lens settings this weekend and post those as well.

I installed the Image Director software and tried connecting to the projector, but it does not recognize that anything is connected. Maybe I have to try a different RS-232 cable, but at this point I cannot play with gamma at all. Still, it's reasonably good out of box...

Cinema 1
Auto Iris 1
Contrast: 89
Brightness: 53
Color: 50
Hue: 50
Color Temp: Custom 3
Gain: R -10, G +2, B +6 (set at 80% white field)
Bias: R-3, G -6, B +2 (set at 20% white field)

RCP User 1:
Red: Color -4, Hue +15, Brightness +13
Yellow: Color -10, Hue -4, Brightness -1
Green: Color 3, Hue +34, Brightness -7
Cyan: Color +13, Hue +2, Brightness -14
Blue: Color +4, Hue -2, Brightness -23
Magenta: Color -8, Hue +3, Brightness +9

Gamma Off

Here are some of the measurement results:













I don't see the effects of the gamma spike at 80% in real world viewing, so something was amiss with that final reading I think...

Also, I don't know enough about this, but the HSL values when measuring and calibrating the CMS seems very spot on, and not sure how that translated into the DE of 3 for the Blue and Cyan values...



Going to be a busy weekend!


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post #746 of 3588 Old 11-11-2011, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I can't tell from your screenshots because the camera may be adding or subtracting color. Were you able to see any color uniformity issues whatsoever like Thrang saw? And did you do these tests with or without the settings like motion flow and sharpness which can impact the results?



Quote myself

With a 40% full field pattern there are the slightish ( very little, but its there ) reddish to the left in the screen - never seen any on real life content.

AFAIR the sharpness and MF didnt impact the result ( Im at work now ).

dj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

If the 95 is like some previous Sony's then if you aren't enabling the dynamic iris you could shut the manual iris down for the HP and possibly help native on/off CR (so deeper absolute black at the same white level off the screen) and if you are using the DI there are adjustments in the service menu for how open the iris can go and how closed it can go, where you could lower the values for the higher gain screen and again start with higher native on/off CR. However, I'm not sure if changing those things in the service menu is completely safe as far as side effects.

--Darin


Thanks Darinp2

Normally I only use the high gain screen for 3D ( for higher brighness - needed ) and sometimes for Cinemascope ( its a 2.40:1 screen ) and the Studiotek for 1.85:1 , 1.78 and 1.33


dj
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post #748 of 3588 Old 11-11-2011, 04:23 AM
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[quote=lovingdvd;21196941]
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post



OK, thanks. Is this with your motionflow on and sharpness etc and does that impact this?

Do you also see this on a 90% or 100% full field? That would be potentially problematic, because there are times when we in real movies orhows they to go all white. Or even in a bright cloud sky etc.Thrang - based on dj's settings is this what you are seeing?

Others with the VW95 - can you reproduce this as well?



No, or its even less,so I cant se it, and I never have seen any off the tint in real content - not even bright cloud s or snow scenes

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post #749 of 3588 Old 11-11-2011, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Hey Darin - great to see you participating here. I (barely) remember the service menu tweaks for the DI we were doing on the Ruby, but not the details.

Can you refresh my memory? We were cranking the top end higher and bottom end lower? Thereby further increasing lumens and the DI on/off CR?

If doing so creates a benefit, I have to wonder then why Sony wouldn't ship it like that. Maybe it is too slow from open to close if they were to do that.

Anyone care to guess where these settings are in the service menu?


I have seen them, but cant remember where ( just checked, and its in the menu "other" )and if you expand the iris open/close range the chance for that you see the iris working is getting bigger !

dj
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post #750 of 3588 Old 11-11-2011, 04:47 AM
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Does anyone know how to adjust gamma on the 95 when in the service mode, as I cannot get the image director software to recognize that I've connected the projector (via an rs 232/keyspan USB adapter, which works fine communicating with the DVDO Duo).

I can enter the service menu and call up the gamma section, but any changes I makes to the rgb values do not impact meter readings at all. There is an additional control as well which moves a plus symbol across the screen, row by row, so Im not sure what that is for.

I also cannot see how to pass through a video signal ( external test pattern) in this mode - only seems to show its own internal grey scale screens.

So if there is anyone who is more familiar with how that setting works, or has any idea on how to et image director to work, it would be appreciated.

Now, in the user menu, I had gamma correction off before going into the service menu, which I think would be correct as I was looking to adjust the native gamma of the projector, not adjust a built in curve...am I wrong here?

Thanks


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