Official Sony VPL-VW95ES Owners Thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 06:42 PM
 
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Bummer...I got a bad unit guys... This thing will not focus correctly. When using focus, the lettering is blurry no matter how carefully I try to adjust it. Something is wrong with the lens. Damn it.
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post #992 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 06:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I believe the 95 needs to be in brightness mode 3 for the 103s.

Joe...check your email.
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post #993 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post


SOWK - am I correct to assume that these were taken in the default color temperature (which I think is "High"?). If so the dE at 100% in there is close to 10. Brightness will likely drop about 10-12% from there if you switch to lower 1 color temp which is closer to D65 (dE of 3).

Would be great to get a summary of your lumens from max throw at high and low lamp mode taken at a calibrated D65. Thanks.

Low1

Again this is from default cinema1 mode.

I plan on getting dE of 1 or less once done calibrating.
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post #994 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

Bummer...I got a bad unit guys... This thing will not focus correctly. When using focus, the lettering is blurry no matter how carefully I try to adjust it. Something is wrong with the lens. Damn it.

My first unit also had focus issues. I couldn't get focus to be consistent across the screen. My second unit is more consistent across the screen now. I am still unsure if it is as sharp as some are stating. I can't get the pixel structure to be tack sharp but when I step back the overall image is pretty sharp.

I did find that the focus pattern was very blurry (lines are 3-4 pixels wide) when I engaged the focus screen when the selected input had an active source. When I disabled the source the focus pattern was much more focused. The lines are 1 pixel wide.

Anyone have a razor sharp 95 around Chicago that would be willing to demo it? Would like to see how the focus looks compared to mine.

-- Bryan
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post #995 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 08:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Jozwiak View Post

My first unit also had focus issues. I couldn't get focus to be consistent across the screen. My second unit is more consistent across the screen now. I am still unsure if it is as sharp as some are stating. I can't get the pixel structure to be tack sharp but when I step back the overall image is pretty sharp.

I did find that the focus pattern was very blurry (lines are 3-4 pixels wide) when I engaged the focus screen when the selected input had an active source. When I disabled the source the focus pattern was much more focused. The lines are 1 pixel wide.

Anyone have a razor sharp 95 around Chicago that would be willing to demo it? Would like to see how the focus looks compared to mine.

The focus pattern is what I am talking about mostly...My VW90ES was razor sharp...This 95ES unit is very blurry on the focus pattern...The word, "FOCUS" is blurry and I cannot get it to be sharp...The overall picture doesn't look too bad when I step back ten feet or so. Also, I cannot get any of my 5 pairs of Xpand103's to work or stay in sync with the projector.
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post #996 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 08:44 PM
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even if the brightness is set to 3, it's still a problem with the 103's? This seems to have worked for others including the HW30. Otherwise, when it's set to 4, it would lose sync every 10-15 seconds.
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post #997 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

If movie watching on this pj is close to your OLD RS20 I suspect the new RS 55 will beat the Sony 95 in movies. Now sports I will suspect the Sony to stomp the jvc.

IMO, better motion is more important than a tiny increase in blacks. I watch a lot of action movies and with a big screen, watching a blurry image is not my cup of tea. We'll see how the RS55's motion is, but most likely it will not be as good as the Sony 95's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

The focus pattern is what I am talking about mostly...My VW90ES was razor sharp...This 95ES unit is very blurry on the focus pattern...The word, "FOCUS" is blurry and I cannot get it to be sharp...The overall picture doesn't look too bad when I step back ten feet or so.

Even quality projectors like this one can have some problems. There are so many things that need to work right in a projector as opposed to tvs. I'm sure you can return it and get another one right?
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post #998 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 09:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post




Even quality projectors like this one can have some problems. There are so many things that need to work right in a projector as opposed to tvs. I'm sure you can return it and get another one right?

Well, the dealer I bought it from assured me I would be able to get an exchange...so I am holding him to it.
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post #999 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 09:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

even if the brightness is set to 3, it's still a problem with the 103's? This seems to have worked for others including the HW30. Otherwise, when it's set to 4, it would lose sync every 10-15 seconds.

Yes, I tried setting it to 3 and still no go...
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post #1000 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post


Lots more to come, so stay tuned! Any questions just ask away.

Very nice preliminary report lovingdvd. Ok, I have some questions. How good are the blacks/contrast to you? Very similar to the RS20? I like to watch a lot of action movies, so do you think the Sony's motion handling will be more important than lets say the RS20's blacks? Some people are saying the Sony wins for sports and the JVC wins for movies, but I tend to disagree simply because the Sony has almost as good blacks, but more importantly has superior motion handling....which is VERY important for movies IMO. I also think some people are misjudging just how close the black levels of the 95 are compared to the 50/55.

So, lovingdvd, do you agree that the 95 wins for watching movies compared to your RS20?
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post #1001 of 3582 Old 11-18-2011, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Very nice preliminary report lovingdvd. Ok, I have some questions. How good are the blacks/contrast to you? Very similar to the RS20? I like to watch a lot of action movies, so do you think the Sony's motion handling will be more important than lets say the RS20's blacks? Some people are saying the Sony wins for sports and the JVC wins for movies, but I tend to disagree simply because the Sony has almost as good blacks, but more importantly has superior motion handling....which is VERY important for movies IMO. I also think some people are misjudging just how close the black levels of the 95 are compared to the 50/55.

So, lovingdvd, do you agree that the 95 wins for watching movies compared to your RS20?

It really sounds like you want a clear knock-out win for the Sony. I think you are going to have to wait for the new model release of the JVC's before any declarations are made.
I have to believe the Sony 95 is a terrific projector given the accolades it has received. However, I will wait for the new JVC's to be released before making a decision. We mainly watch movies on our projector, and depth of image and inky black levels are paramount to us.
I truly hope the 95 is everything you are looking for in a projector.
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post #1002 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 03:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

The focus pattern is what I am talking about mostly...My VW90ES was razor sharp...This 95ES unit is very blurry on the focus pattern...The word, "FOCUS" is blurry and I cannot get it to be sharp...The overall picture doesn't look too bad when I step back ten feet or so. Also, I cannot get any of my 5 pairs of Xpand103's to work or stay in sync with the projector.


Turn the intern test patern off and try to adjust after a extern source ( like DVE ) is it still blury ? ( but must say, that the word "focus" can be adjusted so sharp on mine, that I can see the separate pixels in the letters )

The Xpand did only work ( sync ) in mode 3 when I tested it ( but I think that it is a Xpand problem - none off the Sony glasses had any problem´s ) )


dj
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post #1003 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

If movie watching on this pj is close to your OLD RS20 I suspect the new RS 55 will beat the Sony 95 in movies. Now sports I will suspect the Sony to stomp the jvc.

I have own a rs20, rs40 and rs50. If the trend continu with this year model, the black will be better on the JVC. But I dont think it will make it the ultimate projector for movie. To me, shadow detail, image dynamic, motion and sharpness are better on the 95. Those criteria are also value for movie watching. Also, the black on the 95 look pretty black and close to the rs50 to me. The difference is maybe less than 10%. (maybe 5%). Add to that better 3D, a working CMS and no lamp dimming issue and I think we have a pretty good option in the 95.

Is the 95 perfect? Of course not, some user have already report some issue. I think the reason the 95 is popular this year is because he have no major weakness. Not the best at everything (far from it) but maybe one of the best overall...
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post #1004 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 05:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Turn the intern test patern off and try to adjust after a extern source ( like DVE ) is it still blury ? ( but must say, that the word "focus" can be adjusted so sharp on mine, that I can see the separate pixels in the letters )

The Xpand did only work ( sync ) in mode 3 when I tested it ( but I think that it is a Xpand problem - none off the Sony glasses had any problem´s ) )


dj

It is less blurry without an external source playing...but still blurry...My VW90 was razor sharp...Something is definately going on with the lens adjusting system...I cannot get the Xpand103's to work at all on any setting...I have 5 pairs...all with new batteries.

In addition, there is terrible flickering on Directv channels...Never saw this on my VW90
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post #1005 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 05:54 AM
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I am confused why people think tha shadow detail is about anything other than the gamma that is being used.

To compare one projector to another, you really have to use the same gamma.

I continue to look forward to lovingDVD's and SOWK's further thoughts.

Affable Nitwit
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post #1006 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 07:25 AM
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I agree with LG, i.e., that shadow detail is how one sets gamma; and with higher native o/f CR, one has more flexibility in setting it.

LDVD's report was very well done, as usual, and the 95 seems like an excellent product. The motion handling and sharpness he reports are very attractive.

To me, the most significant 'weakness' is its brightness: ldvd reports 528 lumens (D65) in high lamp. This is disappointing, compared with some earlier reports of > 700 (though the level of calibration was not clear), and this is with a new lamp, which will of course loose some of this with age. (This was at a long throw, though, so it should go up some at the shortest throw.) This may not be an issue for those with smallish screens, but it is certainly something to take into consideration. Do recall that cine4home reported > 900 lumens in his preliminary report on the RS55/65 (high lamp, D65, short throw I presume).
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post #1007 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 07:45 AM
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Reading what lovingdvd wrote, he had some difficulty seeing 17 and sometimes 18 without crushing them on his RS20. I never had that problem.

One thing is true that to use a higher gamma effectively, you need a room to support it. If you have too much light in the room, your blacks will blend together.

For this reason, the advantages of higher on/off and higher gamma might not be apparent to everyone.

Sometimes a lower gamma makes more sense.

One thing is clear is that lovingdvd is demanding and picky (in good ways) and it is a great sign that he has so many favorable things to say.

Affable Nitwit
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post #1008 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 08:43 AM
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SOWK's Sony VPL-VW95ES 2D Review



Reviewers Setup:

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...y/1e82fb69.jpg

Room: Fully Light Controlled / No Windows / All black/dary grey within 14 feet from the screen

Screen Size: Seymour AV Center Stage XD 163" 2.35:1 150" Width X 64" Height - *This is equivalent to a 172" 1.78:1 as I am only using the zoom method

Throw: 21.5 feet


Before we begin:

Some Lumen/Contrast numbers using out of box preset cinema 1. (high lamp)


Lumens at min throw using 255 white...
884

Lumens at min throw using 235 white...
786

Lumens at max throw using 255 white...
729

Lumens at max throw using 235 white...
647

ANSI contrast
420

On/off contrast (auto iris)
61,765:1

On/off contrast (manual)
12,963:1





Grading Scale: 1 - 10 (1 is the worst, 5 is about average, and 10 being "perfect") Also this grading scale is against other technologies as well, not just LCOS. If only against its own technology some of the grades would be higher.

Please remember even a 7 is a good score on my rating system.

Physical Hardware

Appearance: 9
Positive: It looks amazing from all angles
Negative: Would have liked more details on the face of the unit


Video Connections: 8
Positive: 2 HDMI / 1 Component
Negative: No DVI/ No Display Port / No USB


Build Quality: 9
Positive: About as nice as it gets in consumer products
Negative: Still made out of plastic.


Fan Noise: 8
Positive: it wont distract you even during silent passages in movies
Negative: Still can be heard in a silent or sound treated room.


Lens Quality: 6
Positive: has the ability to focus evenly across the screen
Negative: I feel the lens has to much Chromatic Aberration and Pixel level haloing.


Convergence: 7
Positive: Each panel is aligned correctly to green. About 1/8 a pixel off on blue, and 1/16 a pixel off on red. Overall very very good.
Negative: Lens issues as mentioned above make perfect focusing more difficualt.


Lens Memory: 4
Positive: Gets it in the ball park.
Negative: But in that ball park you are as far away from home plate as possible... I still adjust Focus/Shift after a lens memory preset.



Image Quality

Black Levels: 8
Positive: Gets dark enough to not draw attention on a fad to black
Negative: still not "true" black, some extremely low APL scenes with no bright objects on screen still have a "haze"


Shadow Detail: 9
Positive: shows all black steps down to 16 for video content, and can distinguish between 0 and 1 in PC black levels.
Negative: Always room for improvement in the future if they can still get ON/OFF higher


Black Level/Shadow Detailing in Extreme Low Light Scenes: 6
Positive: Shows differences in shadow detailing within objects on screen.
Negative: Can still look very hazy

*Note: This is an area that all digital technologies need major improvement in. AKA: getting real on/off contrast ratios of 1,000,000:1 and still much higher.

Examples:
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...y/ac1a4ff3.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...y/75310743.jpg

Color - REC 709: 9
Positive: Very accurate out of the box in Normal color space mode.
Negative: RCP is not accurate/linear enough to use to correct all saturation levels.


Normal Color:
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...y/eeac1a58.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...y/0bc0f0ac.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...y/7ac6d8b6.jpg

Wide 1 Color:
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...y/eacf8926.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...y/c43e5e8a.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...y/7694217f.jpg

Sharpness: 8
Positive: Sharp for SXRD/LCOS - about as far as the technology maybe able to go.
Negative: Can't compete with a great single chip DLP.


Native Motion Resolution: 7
Positive: Very Good, better then other LCD and LCOS technologies
Negative: Out performed by CRT, DLP and Plasma.


FI Motion (LOW) Resolution: 9
Positive: Almost all 1080 Lines of motion resolution
Negative: Not quite all 1080 lines. I do not like the side effects it has on 24p material. For 60htz material, it's great.


FI Motion (HIGH) Resolution: 10
Positive: All 1080 Lines of motion resolution - Not a hint of motion blur if not native to the source.
Negative: I do not like the side effect it has on 24p material. For 60htz material, it's amazing.


Color Uniformity: 8
Positive: Nearly as perfect as this technology allows and not noticeable by eye in test patterns or real world material.
Negative: A Calibration meter will get slightly different reading from different area's of the screen.


Brightness Uniformity (10% Gray - White): 7
Positive: On my sample you would not be able to see in any real world material.
Negative: Only a very slight hint of color shading. Hard to pick up even in test patterns - Really a non issue. Close enough to being perfect for this technology


Brightness Uniformity (Black): 6
Positive: Great in the center.
Negative: Still has brighter corners then the center of the screen.


Image (ANSI) Contrast: 7
Positive: Very good for SXRD - Some scenes have good "depth" because of the outstanding nature of the ANSI
Negative: Outgunned by DLP / Plasma


Brightness: 8
Positive: Looks good even on my ridiculously sized screen
Negative: we can all use extra brightness... Especially if you plan on using 3D. I could triple the lumen output and still "want" more for my 2D!!! lol


Videophile Qualities - Most important image qualities to me.

"Looking Through The Window ability": 7
Positive: Great for SXRD, & better then most low/mid range DLP's
Negative: Out performed by "high end" DLP/Plasma


Natural Image (non digital image): 7
Positive: Better then LCD, & better then most low/mid range DLP's
Negative: Out performed by "high end" DLP/Plasma


Film Like Image: 7
Positive: Better then LCD, & better then most low/mid range DLP's
Negative: Out performed by "high end" DLP/Plasma



Overall Verdict

8


Calibration report...









During calibration:



Focus:



Looks even better in person and focus is even from edge to edge.



Couple of things I would like to say...

- It is very very good in cinema 1 preset out of the box. By far the best projector I have ever tested calibration wise. If I would have had gamma set to off and sharpness to off, you would not need a pro calibrator if you have a color neutral screen

- After calibration it is extremely close to reference and you would not need a external video processor.

- All results in report above are with dynamic iris "ON".

- Gamma was a little flatter to 2.22 with the dynamic iris off.
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post #1009 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 08:55 AM
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Wow, pretty amzing post cal results there SOWK. The only issue I'd have is that bump in the gamma at 90. I wonder if the main contrast is set a fractioin too high or whether it's just a quirk of the auto iris perhaps. It's the sort of bump that the Lumagen Mini3D would easily be able to manually adjust out, but IIRC you're just using the '95's controls?

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #1010 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 08:57 AM
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How did you managed the color!? Wide2 ? Which values do you used in the CMS?
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post #1011 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post

How did you managed the color!? Wide2 ? Which values do you used in the CMS?

Normal with RCP in user 1, adjusted only the color/hue/lightness settings. Did not touch range or scale settings.
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post #1012 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Wow, pretty amzing post cal results there SOWK. The only issue I'd have is that bump in the gamma at 90. I wonder if the main contrast is set a fractioin too high or whether it's just a quirk of the auto iris perhaps. It's the sort of bump that the Lumagen Mini3D would easily be able to manually adjust out, but IIRC you're just using the '95's controls?

it was at 80, and a dynamic iris will always affect gamma, but I will tell you it is certainly worth the trade off for the massive increase of on/off. Plus I'm sure there is no way to tell during actual material. Or even test patterns for that matter. This is some of the best DI gamma results I have ever seen btw.

All settings were done directly in the Sony, no external processors.

*Note - Gamma is flatter with DI off.*

Results below...

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post #1013 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:08 AM
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Thanks for the further feedback SOWK. For internal controls only that's even more impressive...I already have the Mini3D so maybe when the time comes I might not need it.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #1014 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:15 AM
 
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Okay guys, it looks like because this is an ES product I will get a replacement relatively quick. I've had my panties in a bunch so much about the poor focus that I didn't get a chance to post my impressions of the unit as a whole. As some of you know, I am very familiar with last years VW90ES and the JVC RS-40. Looking past the blurryness here are my impressions...

Positives:

Great colors, Looks fantastic out of the box, black levels are very good, Sports as expected are "very good" much better than watching sports on the JVC. The JVC RS-40 has slightly better blacks, (but I prefer the Sony for all around viewing) The 3D cross-talk issues have in fact been "much improved" over the VW90ES. Motion enhancement frame interpolation is very good. I prefer it on low. I cannot comment on sharpness, (because I received a bad unit)...will not focus) I played the new POTC movie 3D and was "BLOWN AWAY" with the 3D effect!...Did not care for this 3D movie on the JVC RS-40 projector. I am no expert, but will post more findings as I play with it.

Cons:

The Xpand103's do not sync well with this projector...I have had a hell of a time getting any of 5 pairs to sync...finally I got 1 pair to sync, but loses sync too easily. The picture frame position works, but does not function as well, or is not as well engineered IMO as the Panasonic projectors.
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post #1015 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

It would be interesting to see how well saturation tracks tho.

Are you talking about different stimuli(IRE)?

If so it tracks well, not perfect but very well.

still averages about 1.5 DE off when changing levels.

I tried 100%, 75%, and 50%
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post #1016 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dogone View Post

The Xpand103's do not sync well with this projector...I have had a hell of a time getting any of 5 pairs to sync...finally I got 1 pair to sync, but loses sync too easily. The picture frame position works, but does not function as well, or is not as well engineered IMO as the Panasonic projectors.

I've tried the Sony, Xpand 103 and the MV3D's with the HW30, the 103's were my least favorite in regard to how it handled ghosting and color tint.

Take a look at the link in my signature, I can tune out a large portion of visible ghosting with the MV3D's and the color tint imo is the best of the 3.

AVS sells the kits now.
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post #1017 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I've tried the Sony, Xpand 103 and the MV3D's with the HW30, the 103's were my least favorite in regard to how it handled ghosting and color tint.

Take a look at the link in my signature, I can tune out a large portion of visible ghosting with the MV3D's and the color tint imo is the best of the 3.

AVS sells the kits now.

Actually, the Sony glasses look quite good to me on the VW95ES...(better than what you are showing on that pic in your link)...My problem with the Xpand103's is how hard they are to sync. Had no issues with them on the JVC models.
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post #1018 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dogone View Post

Actually, the Sony glasses look quite good to me on the VW95ES...(better than what you are showing on that pic in your link)...My problem with the Xpand103's is how hard they are to sync. Had no issues with them on the JVC models.

I have the projector at eye level on a high power screen in those screenshots, the HP screen is so bright that ghosting stands out a bit more compared to when I am viewing on a lower gain screen.

it's odd your having so many issues with the Xpands, I'm fairly certain that a number of new 95 owners are using them with no issue as long as the brightness was set to 3. Did you try cycling through the various modes again on the glasses?

I think one of my 103's was acting up in the beginning but swapped in a new battery and it fine aftewards.
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post #1019 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I have the projector at eye level on a high power screen in those screenshots, the HP screen is so bright that ghosting stands out a bit more compared to when I am viewing on a lower gain screen.

it's odd your having so many issues with the Xpands, I'm fairly certain that a number of new 95 owners are using them with no issue as long as the brightness was set to 3. Did you try cycling through the various modes again on the glasses?

I think one of my 103's was acting up in the beginning but swapped in a new battery and it fine aftewards.

Yeah, I put a new battery in one of my Xpands and after clicking the button for 15 minutes or so I finally got it to come in, but with the JVC projector I wouldn't even have to press the button on the glasses after the first time I sync them...they would just pop on when the projector was showing 3D. I was playing with another pair just now and got it to work...but dam! took forever!
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post #1020 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:43 AM
 
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SOWK. The human eye probably can't decern an error of 1.5DE and your cheap probe (and that is not meant to be offensive) is simply not accurate or linear enough where a graph printed from its reading showing a deviation of 1.5 means anything. It is likely that your probe, even if sold with calibration offsets, measured for the probe or generic, has more error than that at several points. There is a reson that professional calibrators own expensive highly accurate probes (which are ubfortunaely slow but accurate) to generate an on site offsets for their cheaper much quicker probes.

A graph is just eye candy. Duh. I got de s of 0 everywhere. It is just as likely that having a de of 1.5 at one or more points is just as accurate. So many obsess at calibration and when reaching it on some graph is pseudo because of their probe. Generally, any true de of 2 or 3 or less can't be discerned by the eye but it does look bad on the graph and graphs are what this game is all about. The Pro shows his customers perfection graphs and hobbyists obsess and obsess and post purty graphs.
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