Official Sony VPL-VW95ES Owners Thread - Page 35 - AVS Forum
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post #1021 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:44 AM
 
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The Sony glasses sync perfectly...just press the button once and they're on. Maybe while I wait for my replacement projector I'll order some of the Monsters...or more Sonys.
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post #1022 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

The Sony glasses sync perfectly...just press the button once and they're on. Maybe while I wait for my replacement projector I'll order some of the Monsters...or more Sonys.

Go Monsters!!!

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
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post #1023 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 10:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Go Monsters!!!

What's the best bet price wise?...get the Optima equavalents and a monster emitter separate?
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post #1024 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

SOWK. The human eye probably can't decern an error of 1.5DE and your cheap probe (and that is not meant to be offensive) is simply not accurate or linear enough where a graph printed from its reading showing a deviation of 1.5 means anything. It is likely that your probe, even if sold with calibration offsets, measured for the probe or generic, has more error than that at several points. There is a reson that professional calibrators own expensive highly accurate probes (which are ubfortunaely slow but accurate) to generate an on site offsets for their cheaper much quicker probes.

A graph is just eye candy. Duh. I got de s of 0 everywhere. It is just as likely that having a de of 1.5 at one or more points is just as accurate. So many obsess at calibration and when reaching it on some graph is pseudo because of their probe. Generally, any true de of 2 or 3 or less can't be discerned by the eye but it does look bad on the graph and graphs are what this game is all about. The Pro shows his customers perfection graphs and hobbyists obsess and obsess and post purty graphs.

Don't be mad my calibration reports look better then your... lol. j/k

But it is well known that a certified eye-one pro is very close to ultra expensive meters in performance. So the closer I can get it to 0 DE, the better the results will be imaginary or not (called Placebo Effect, and it is very powerful.) Let people be happy, and buy more Sony VPL-VW95ES from AVSForum.
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post #1025 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 10:53 AM
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Update on my lumen reading for any that may be confused...

I use PC 255 white level for lumen measurements.


You can measure the same way with a PC white level 255 full field pattern or 100IRE video pattern if your player / projector settings crush white so no steps above 235 are visible.

You can check you player / projector settings with the free AVS calibration disk under the display calibrations forum.

*If you allow above white information with your player / projector settings you will not maximize on/off contrast, ANSI contrast, and lumen output.

But some movies (very very few) that are not authored correctly may have information above white, so you will have to choose between the 2.

Loss of above white information and maximize on/off contrast, ANSI contrast, and lumen output.

OR

Keep above white information for the random movie that may contain any information above white.
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post #1026 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

SOWK. The human eye probably can't decern an error of 1.5DE and your cheap probe (and that is not meant to be offensive) is simply not accurate or linear enough where a graph printed from its reading showing a deviation of 1.5 means anything. It is likely that your probe, even if sold with calibration offsets, measured for the probe or generic, has more error than that at several points. There is a reson that professional calibrators own expensive highly accurate probes (which are ubfortunaely slow but accurate) to generate an on site offsets for their cheaper much quicker probes.

A graph is just eye candy. Duh. I got de s of 0 everywhere. It is just as likely that having a de of 1.5 at one or more points is just as accurate. So many obsess at calibration and when reaching it on some graph is pseudo because of their probe. Generally, any true de of 2 or 3 or less can't be discerned by the eye but it does look bad on the graph and graphs are what this game is all about. The Pro shows his customers perfection graphs and hobbyists obsess and obsess and post purty graphs.

In that case, there is NO truly accurate (even professional $50k probe) meter, unless the meter can tuned to your eye particular tristimulus response!!! As each eye is slightly different in response from people to people, the professional perfection graph is only perfection from an "average" perspective.

I understand you seems to tell us that we should not be obsess with dE, as our probe is not accurate. However, this is what hobbyists do, and a way for us to justify our obsession to our wife :P
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post #1027 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Are you talking about different stimuli(IRE)?

If so it tracks well, not perfect but very well.

still averages about 1.5 DE off when changing levels.

I tried 100%, 75%, and 50%

No, I think he is talking about different saturation level, not different IRE level with same saturation level (like 100% saturation in almost all projector internal test pattern, or for that matter, Lumagen and DUO only have 100% saturation pattern, IIRC.) which brings up a good point.. Which test disc have different saturation level? AVSHD??
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post #1028 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 12:09 PM
 
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The Monster emitter is hard to get seperately. The best deal is to buy a kit which includes the glasses, emitter, and all necessary cables. Supposedly the Optoma glasses are the same as the Monsters but the Monster glasses can be had for about the street price of the Optomas.
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post #1029 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Couple of things I would like to say...

- It is very very good in cinema 1 preset out of the box. By far the best projector I have ever tested calibration wise.

- Even after calibration it is about as close to reference you could ever expect.

- All results in report above are with dynamic iris "ON".

- Gamma was a little flatter to 2.22 with the dynamic iris off.

- lumens: After calibration with now 10 hours on the bulb vs 0 from first measurements is 798 lumens.

SOWK, what tools did you use for calibration? Just the eye one pro, chromapure software, and the 95's CMS? No external devices (lumagen, dvdo)? Is the CMS enough for proper calibration?
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post #1030 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Here is the BIG report...

Couple of things I would like to say...

- It is very very good in cinema 1 preset out of the box. By far the best projector I have ever tested calibration wise.

- Even after calibration it is about as close to reference you could ever expect.

- All results in report above are with dynamic iris "ON".

- Gamma was a little flatter to 2.22 with the dynamic iris off.

- lumens: After calibration with now 10 hours on the bulb vs 0 from first measurements is 798 lumens.


Wow, exceptionel impressive and precise calibration ( but must admit, it did already look very,very good OTB ) and I really dont think the little " bump" in the gamma has ANY effect in reality and in that room I still would adjust it up to around 2.3 - 2.4 after 20% if possible

I guess you are a satisficed customer SOWK !?



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post #1031 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Are you talking about different stimuli(IRE)?

If so it tracks well, not perfect but very well.

still averages about 1.5 DE off when changing levels.

I tried 100%, 75%, and 50%

That's good but can you also measure saturations. You can do this with chromapure. These are "inside the triangle" measurements.

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post #1032 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Actually I was referring to different saturation levels. The AVS disk has 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, & 100% saturations for each of the 3 primary and secondary colors. Some discrepancies (from ideal) may be noted as the saturation levels change. For example, with the RS50 if the colors need to be adjusted more than some minimal amount they may be right at 100% saturation but become under saturated at lower saturation levels. You can test this in the "Advanced CM" module in Chromapure (not sure in Calman).

Yes! These, please!

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post #1033 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Yes! These, please!

I will certianly play around with this when I get some time.
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post #1034 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 03:47 PM
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Hey guys - I have read your questions and will be answering as soon as I have a chance to spend some quality time with the unit - which starts TONIGHT!

That's right - after some VERY late nights calibrating, tweaking and testing I am finally in a position to sit down and actually WATCH the thing.

For right now I will just say WOW.
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post #1035 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

SOWK, what tools did you use for calibration? Just the eye one pro, chromapure software, and the 95's CMS? No external devices (lumagen, dvdo)? Is the CMS enough for proper calibration?

eye one Pro, AEMC CA813 Light meter, Chromapure, 95's CMS.

No external devices

I need to spend more time with the CMS and multi saturation levels to know fully. I will try this maybe tonight or tomorrow morning.
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post #1036 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 03:54 PM
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The real question is, who is more anal and picky? SOWK or Lovingdvd?

I say me, because I certainly don't love DVD's right now...
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post #1037 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Hey guys - I have read your questions and will be answering as soon as I have a chance to spend some quality time with the unit - which starts TONIGHT!

That's right - after some VERY late nights calibrating, tweaking and testing I am finally in a position to sit down and actually WATCH the thing.

For right now I will just say WOW.

Sounds good!

Affable Nitwit
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post #1038 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

The real question is, who is more anal and picky? SOWK or Lovingdvd?

I say me, because I certainly don't love DVD's right now...

dunno, but there's at least one person out here who appreciates your picky-ness...

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post #1039 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I am confused why people think tha shadow detail is about anything other than the gamma that is being used...

This is only true if the projectors have the same on/off contrast.

If two projectors are running identical gammas than the projector with the higher on/off will have better shadow detail. Also a projector that has a PWM drive system can have worse shadow detail even if it has identical on/off and gamma when compared to an analog model. Members with older DLPs before they increased the pulse rate will remember this issue.
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post #1040 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

...*Note - Gamma is flatter with DI off.*

Results below...


I just confirmed with my Sony pro contacts that it is still the case that you should calibrate with DI off especially if you are using window patterns. The DI system will be invoked during lower APL patterns and you will measure higher luminance levels that the pjs gamma curve is really providing.
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post #1041 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 04:59 PM
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I use full field windows.

I don't think you can go wrong either way calibrating... DI on or off. I feel on is better representation of real world use if you plan on using the DI. And only gamma is better represented if calibrated / viewed in DI off mode.
Top level calibrators also calibrate with it on as well, if the end user is going to use it in real world.
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post #1042 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

I use full field windows.

I don't think you can go wrong either way calibrating... DI on or off. I feel on is better representation of real world use if you plan on using the DI. And only gamma is better represented if calibrated / viewed in DI off mode.
Top level calibrators also calibrate with it on as well, if the end user is going to use it in real world.

I'm only talking about gamma. Grayscale and color should not change if the DI is on or off.
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post #1043 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 05:31 PM
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Ok thank you for the clarification. The results you quoted from me was the gamma with DI off.
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post #1044 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 07:14 PM
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Ok, leave RCP off...

I tried with different saturation levels and it's almost perfect at 100% but totally messed up at 75% / 50% / 25%

With RCP off and normal color space I would say it averages about 1.3dE across all saturation levels for every color.

So better to leave alone.
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post #1045 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

Okay guys, it looks like because this is an ES product I will get a replacement relatively quick. I've had my panties in a bunch so much about the poor focus that I didn't get a chance to post my impressions of the unit as a whole. As some of you know, I am very familiar with last years VW90ES and the JVC RS-40. Looking past the blurryness here are my impressions...

Positives:

Great colors, Looks fantastic out of the box, black levels are very good, Sports as expected are "very good" much better than watching sports on the JVC. The JVC RS-40 has slightly better blacks, (but I prefer the Sony for all around viewing) The 3D cross-talk issues have in fact been "much improved" over the VW90ES. Motion enhancement frame interpolation is very good. I prefer it on low. I cannot comment on sharpness, (because I received a bad unit)...will not focus) I played the new POTC movie 3D and was "BLOWN AWAY" with the 3D effect!...Did not care for this 3D movie on the JVC RS-40 projector. I am no expert, but will post more findings as I play with it.

Cons:

The Xpand103's do not sync well with this projector...I have had a hell of a time getting any of 5 pairs to sync...finally I got 1 pair to sync, but loses sync too easily. The picture frame position works, but does not function as well, or is not as well engineered IMO as the Panasonic projectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

Actually, the Sony glasses look quite good to me on the VW95ES...(better than what you are showing on that pic in your link)...My problem with the Xpand103's is how hard they are to sync. Had no issues with them on the JVC models.

Just a guess but if it's working great for Zombie with the AES30 and you are having issues with the 95 maybe the external emitter on the AES30 is better than the internal one on the 95. Just a guess.
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post #1046 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 09:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Just a guess but if it's working great for Zombie with the AES30 and you are having issues with the 95 maybe the external emitter on the AES30 is better than the internal one on the 95. Just a guess.

I'd say that's a pretty good guess.
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post #1047 of 3582 Old 11-19-2011, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Ok, leave RCP off...

I tried with different saturation levels and it's almost perfect at 100% but totally messed up at 75% / 50% / 25%

With RCP off and normal color space I would say it averages about 1.3dE across all saturation levels for every color.

So better to leave alone.

This is very good to know. Looks like it might have the same issue as in RS20, which I heard mess up the saturation as well when you use its CMS.
SOWK, do you have a Lumagen VP or DUO to try calibrate and see if it is better? Lumagen should have no problems in their CMS control for different saturation level.
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post #1048 of 3582 Old 11-20-2011, 12:24 AM
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3D = outstanding (with monster glasses). Plenty of brightness for me with 528 lumens in high mode. More tomorrow. Er, I mean, later today.
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post #1049 of 3582 Old 11-20-2011, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

I'm only talking about gamma. Grayscale and color should not change if the DI is on or off.



HoustonHoyaFan

Would it be ok to adjust the gamma with DI off and then activate the DI after that, if you want to use it ? - will that still give the "correct" behavier from the gamma ?


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post #1050 of 3582 Old 11-20-2011, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Just a guess but if it's working great for Zombie with the AES30 and you are having issues with the 95 maybe the external emitter on the AES30 is better than the internal one on the 95. Just a guess.


Absolutly not, the inbuild transmitter in the 95ES ( and in the "old" 90ES ) is way better and stronger then the external transmitter from the 30ES IMO.

I could never get the external transmitter from the 30 to work stabil with bouncing off the screen´s to the projector ( gain 1.3 and 2.8 ), and I did try both the "0" and the "1" in the service menu. Both with the 90 and the 95 I never have had any problem and I didnt need to go into the service menu at all.


dj
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