Official Sony VPL-VW95ES Owners Thread - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus74 View Post

Hi,
To have perfect alignment i must use zone alignment.
Does anybody knows if has some side effect in picture?
I made some adjusments and i didn't see any side effect.
I told him about the pink effect on unidisk units.
My dealer just told me..Quote
You have to do the pixel alignment also within the Zones !
Only pixel alignment over the complete picture is not enough - you also have to do the zone alignment.

It became pink because you mix blue and green - that´s normal.
He is a very good ISF calibrator.

Did you ask what is the procedures? Which one should be done first?
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post #1532 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 01:30 PM
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Hi,
First i made shift alignment for R and B for both V,H.
After that i use zone alignment for R in the right up of the screen where is still a small shift.
Zone alignment is the same with 0.1 pixel for one click.
For that reason i was asking if somebody has used this feature,because i didn't see any side effect.
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post #1533 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 01:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mmarki View Post

I know, I have to take the wife there tomorrow. Unfortunately I have to involve her in the decision too, or I might have ordered it today!! I have no doubt that she will see a big difference from the Sony 60 we have now. I hope to buy it soon. I think you might know the dealer I went to. He cracks me up.

Say Hi to Bob for me!...
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post #1534 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Yes. If the pictures above from Unidisk are normal, then I will just have to live with whatever my new one brings about.

I really don't think it is normal. I do not see anything like that.

Do you have to exchange your unit or can you pick up the new one first and try it - just in case its no better in that regard and worse in others. Probably not necessary, but I'm just wondering.
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post #1535 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spankenstein View Post

Maybe it's time to start a "VW95 tweaker thread". I would hate for this to contaminate this thread as the processes can get long-winded, as you already know.

I have gone over this to a great degree in the "VW60 Tweak thread".

As I stated earlier, I am not a 95 owner (yet). Whether these setting translate from the 60, I do not know. I imagine their iris algorithms have been refined, but the implemetation should be the same.

Great idea!

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post #1536 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus74 View Post

Hi,
First i made shift alignment for R and B for both V,H.
After that i use zone alignment for R in the right up of the screen where is still a small shift.
Zone alignment is the same with 0.1 pixel for one click.
For that reason i was asking if somebody has used this feature,because i didn't see any side effect.

I was not able to detect ANY downside whatsoever by using the panel shift function, using either test patterns or real world material. And they make it easy to do this because as you know you can toggle panel shift on and off easily (as opposed to having to back out your settings to get back to 0).

I do not know how they pull this off. Mark H has said for years that the approach used by Sony lowers resolution. Maybe it does, I do not know. But if it does it certainly imperceptible, at least in the small amounts I am using.

What can be easily perceived is the difference between my corrected convergence and the OOTB setting. I can put up a single pixel grid and from a normal seating distance flip back and forth between panel shifted and Off. And as I do I can see the grid turn from a somewhat reddish glow to solid white. It is rather striking. So my philosophy is that if I can see an obvious benefit, but cannot see any downside whatsoever, I'm using it! Although I should also add that with real world material I can't see any improvement in focus or otherwise when I flip back and forth with the panel shift on or off either.

I do not know if the same applies to the zone level controls, but I assume it works the same. Afterall electronic shift is electronic shift. I do recall, however, there is some mention of it in the user manual for the VW95 - it says something about using too much of it may reduce the resolution, or something like that. I do not recall if it is specific to the zone control or the overall shift.
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post #1537 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unidisk View Post

Here are the screen shots with AVS HD709 with the single pixel off/on patterns. The panel adjustment is off.

Issues are:

1. The blue and red are off a bit.

2. The blue spans wider than red and the red is wider than the green. Is this the similar to what SWOK had with his first unit?

This is pretty similar to mine. Except it's perhaps a bit worse than that at the bottom of my screen, while it could be slightly better than that at the top.
I think it's Chromatic Aberration rather than convergence. Purple fringes are classic CA behavior.
My projector is set up level with the top of my projector, maximum distance back from the screen (extreme zoom), which means that the lens shift is near maximum downwards vertically.

This yields no noticeable impact on the image from more than 4 feet away (100 inch screen), even on test patterns. I don't notice anything on real world material.

Still, I wish I didn't see any CA up close.
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post #1538 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 01:46 PM
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When I tried to use zone convergence adjustment to tweak the bottom of my screen, it ended up creating significant pink color shift to one on one off pixel checkerboard patterns. So I abandoned the convergence adjustment.
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post #1539 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 01:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spankenstein View Post

Maybe it's time to start a "VW95 tweaker thread". I would hate for this to contaminate this thread as the processes can get long-winded, as you already know.

I have gone over this to a great degree in the "VW60 Tweak thread".

As I stated earlier, I am not a 95 owner (yet). Whether these setting translate from the 60, I do not know. I imagine their iris algorithms have been refined, but the implemetation should be the same.

LOL...You could name it, "Tweekers Anonymous"...Bring your own donuts and coffee...
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post #1540 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Does anyone's vw95 have that much chromatic aberration like the picture I posted?


None off the two I have seen.


dj
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post #1541 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Dang,

Re JVC vs Sony (since I'm about to pick up a JVC RS55).

I wish I had some opportunity to see the VW95 before jumping on the JVC bandwagon again. I love my RS20 and I'm a black level fiend so that's a major reason why I stuck with JVC again (RS55). There used to be a Sony store with an excellent projector demo room nearby, but they got rid of the demo room and now none of the Sony stores can demo their projectors.

Also, there is the "dealer" issue. I don't know anybody dealing Sony projectors as far as getting a better deal, and my projector dealer doesn't sell the Sony saying he had too many issues and that Sony was much more problematic to deal with when customers had problems with their unit, whereas JVC response was much faster and more helpful.
(I was able to immediately get a replacement projector for my first RS20 which had pretty crappy convergence).

I'm sure the Sony looks fantastic. This will be my first 3D projector so I was hoping to get at least decent 3D performance. I'll have to see...


R Harkness

I really dont think you go wrong with any off these two - I own the 95 and I have seen the X70 ( Europe name ) and I think, that both looks wonderfull and they both haves many strong points and very few weak points off what we know off for now.

And they can both make a beuatyful picture

dj
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post #1542 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

How did you like using the zone controls? I didn't play with it. In my case I got nearly perfect convergence with the overall shift of R and B. However one side about the last 20% is off a bit in green. It is not noticeable at all with patterns so I did not want to bother with the zone controls - no knowing if there was any artifact or downside to using it. But I figured if it wasn't really necessary or visible then don't bother with it. Plus I figured I would leave it for when I got bored tweaking other things.

I wonder if when you use the zone adjustment it applies the overall adjustment first and then your zone. Or if you have to do the whole thing as a zone (with no overall shift) if you decide to use any zone at all.
Also did you notice if you the 0.1 pixel increments in the zone control are any different than the amount moved by one click in the overall shift?


No, you can do the overall shift first, and then fine tune some zones for example one the left side alone - so it applies the overall shift adjustment first and then your zone can move it specifically in that zone.

dj
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post #1543 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by A.West View Post

When I tried to use zone convergence adjustment to tweak the bottom of my screen, it ended up creating significant pink color shift to one on one off pixel checkerboard patterns. So I abandoned the convergence adjustment.

I have seen the same thing. As the nature of the color, I guess the blue infringes more than others. So I hope the overlap is really not a CA issue. I also have the PJ ceiling mount and it is at the end of the vertical shift.

Here I attached two pictures which is before and after the pixtel shift. These are the center portion of the 5th screen shot of the basic settings on AVS HD709 disk. The white dots are the single cells inside the black square.

Before th panel shift, the blue/red/green are visible in up/left/right direction. After a small panel shift, only the blue/red are visible as one outlines the other with the white in the center. However overall picture backgroud turns to be pinkish.

If viewing from the sitting distance, I can pull a single cell or line pattern screen. Strange enough, the white on the before adjustment screen looks whilte and the white looks pinkish on the aftr adjustment screen. The unaligned screen looks better than the aligned.

Why is that?
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post #1544 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

How did you like using the zone controls? I didn't play with it. In my case I got nearly perfect convergence with the overall shift of R and B. However one side about the last 20% is off a bit in green. It is not noticeable at all with patterns so I did not want to bother with the zone controls - no knowing if there was any artifact or downside to using it. But I figured if it wasn't really necessary or visible then don't bother with it. Plus I figured I would leave it for when I got bored tweaking other things.

I wonder if when you use the zone adjustment it applies the overall adjustment first and then your zone. Or if you have to do the whole thing as a zone (with no overall shift) if you decide to use any zone at all.

Also did you notice if you the 0.1 pixel increments in the zone control are any different than the amount moved by one click in the overall shift?




They both move in 0.1 pixel increments and up to 2.0 pixel


dj
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post #1545 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 02:43 PM
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[quote=maximus74;21325302]Hi,
First i made shift alignment for R and B for both V,H.
After that i use zone alignment for R in the right up of the screen where is still a small shift.
Zone alignment is the same with 0.1 pixel for one click.
For that reason i was asking if somebody has used this feature,because i didn't see any side effect.[/QUOTE



There are one, but it only affects high resolutions patterns like one pixel on / one pixels off - it gets "funny" color and if you use Zones, it can make weird color splashes
But I have for now not seen any "problems" with real material ( but still dont like that it do it )


dj
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post #1546 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 02:47 PM
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Ok, I have ordered the 95, have an Oppo BDP-93 on the way as well as 4 pair of the MonsterVisions and the kit. Now all I need to do is make sure my HTPC can pass all types of 3D content. Presently I have a 5 series ATI card and use Arcsoft TMT 3.0 as well as WMC via a Ceton InfiniTV card. For what I understand, the Ceton is good to go and will handle 3D content with my existing graphic card and Comcast but in order to handle 3D Blu Ray iso's, I need either an NVidia or an AMD 6 Series card with TMT 5.

I know it's not the right thread for HTPC nerdiest but woo-whoo here comes da 3D fun.
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post #1547 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.West View Post

When I tried to use zone convergence adjustment to tweak the bottom of my screen, it ended up creating significant pink color shift to one on one off pixel checkerboard patterns. So I abandoned the convergence adjustment.


I get "funny" round color splashes in one on/off patterns - but never seen it on real world materiel ( probely because there isnt very much one pixel on/off details in real world pictures ?! ) - but its a little trade off - live with a little convergens error ( say red edges ) or perfect convergens ( what I can achieve with shift + zone ) ,but a chance for a small high resolutions patterns "pops" up in some extreme scene ? what to do

But as said, never seen it for now in real materiel


dj
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post #1548 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 03:01 PM
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BTW have found my first MV setting who is better then the Sony glasses for ghosting ( delay 1720 duty 60 ) a little darker picture then on the Sony´s , but less ghosting - Im getting closer to enjoy 3D



dj
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post #1549 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

I get "funny" round color splashes in one on/off patterns - but never seen it on real world materiel ( probely because there isnt very much one pixel on/off details in real world pictures ?! ) - but its a little trade off - live with a little convergens error ( say red edges ) or perfect convergens ( what I can achieve with shift + zone ) ,but a chance for a small high resolutions patterns "pops" up in some extreme scene ? what to do

But as said, never seen it for now in real materiel


dj

Hi,
It means that you did use shift+zone adjusments to have perfect convergence?
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post #1550 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 03:26 PM
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Planning a fun 3D weekend with Smurfs 3D and Kung Fu Panda 3D!

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post #1551 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 03:37 PM
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Sony swaps out their units within 72 hours or sooner.

Is that bulb hours or ownership hours?
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post #1552 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 03:39 PM
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That's 3 days turnaround shipping

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses". - Abraham Lincoln
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post #1553 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 03:41 PM
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Planning a fun 3D weekend with Smurfs 3D and Kung Fu Panda 3D!

I only watched a few mins of smurfs, not sure I can take the whole movie. KFP should be pretty good in 3D, checking it out this weekend too.
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post #1554 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

BTW have found my first MV setting who is better then the Sony glasses for ghosting ( delay 1720 duty 60 ) a little darker picture then on the Sony´s , but less ghosting - Im getting closer to enjoy 3D

dj

Try the same thing with Delay of 1150 but duty cycle at 60. Does that perform any differently?
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post #1555 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I only watched a few mins of smurfs, not sure I can take the whole movie. KFP should be pretty good in 3D, checking it out this weekend too.

I have my Daughter this weekend and she is wanting to see it so I will have to grin and bear it (Smurfs)...

I am excited about Kung Fu Panda though.

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post #1556 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 06:15 PM
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That's 3 days turnaround shipping

Exactly.

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post #1557 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

As for Sony dealers that is an issue easily solved. Just make sure you have a good out in case you are not happy with the RS55.

Just curious: can you tell me how the "Sony dealers" issue is easily solved?
I'm in Toronto and the only Sony dealers I know are Sony stores (full MSRP price), the occasional high-end AV store (full MSRP price) and some kinda shady looking off-the-beaten-track places (which if I remember still charge close to full MSRP). And nowhere to demo (whereas a number of AV stores demo the JVCs).

So...?

Thanks.
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post #1558 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 07:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Just curious: can you tell me how the "Sony dealers" issue is easily solved?
I'm in Toronto and the only Sony dealers I know are Sony stores (full MSRP price), the occasional high-end AV store (full MSRP price) and some kinda shady looking off-the-beaten-track places (which if I remember still charge close to full MSRP). And nowhere to demo (whereas a number of AV stores demo the JVCs).

So...?

Thanks.

Can you drive to Detroit and buy one there?...Might be the cheapest way.
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post #1559 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post


Just curious: can you tell me how the "Sony dealers" issue is easily solved?
I'm in Toronto and the only Sony dealers I know are Sony stores (full MSRP price), the occasional high-end AV store (full MSRP price) and some kinda shady looking off-the-beaten-track places (which if I remember still charge close to full MSRP). And nowhere to demo (whereas a number of AV stores demo the JVCs).

So...?

Thanks.

There are authorized Sony dealers in GTA that are selling the Sony high end stuffs below MSRP. I bought the VW95 a month ago way below that from the local store. I am in Richmond Hill.
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post #1560 of 3591 Old 12-09-2011, 09:14 PM
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Thanks.

It's a bit academic at this point as I'm headed for the JVC RS55. But for future reference
it's nice to have options.
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