Official JVC RS55/X70 owners thread. - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 11:09 AM
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It's my understanding that the 55's are slightly delayed while waiting for a final firmware update. I also understand the 45 firmware is final. I've not read any comments from 45 owners saying ghosting is worse than last year. I think it's fair to say that someone screwed up by releasing Conan's unit before it had the final firmware installed. I don't see how that computes to "another half baked year for JVC". And before we condemn JVC QA why not wait to see if the firmware update fixes it?

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post #62 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

It's my understanding that the 55's are slightly delayed while waiting for a final firmware update. I also understand the 45 firmware is final. I've not read any comments from 45 owners saying ghosting is worse than last year. I think it's fair to say that someone screwed up by releasing Conan's unit before it had the final firmware installed. I don't see how that computes to "another half baked year for JVC". And before we condemn JVC QA why not wait to see if the firmware update fixes it?

I agree. Its way too early to say that JVC has "dropped the ball" again. We need to wait for more owners' impressions with a finalized model with all updates. So far, the 55 sounds like an excellent 2D projector. Only the 3D is where the questions are arising.
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post #63 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Hey Conan

I was able to do a comparison, and mentioned it in many threads. The Ghosting was the exact same on my X3 compared to a X70. Both Brand new bulbs. I spent 3 hours with this machine and 3d was not any better. this was also with the new glasses and Frame Packed blu-ray 1080/24p.

You do not have a bad unit its how these units are. That shows the exact same amount I was seeing.

try these scenes. The Walt Disney opening with Mickey on his Boat(you can see this on tangled, Lion king). On the lion king when Zazu first flies in during the circle of life.

There are more scenes you can test just like the one you did. It will show the same amount of ghosting.

did you play with any the software features for reducing crosstalk? since the panel speeds are still 120hz, I was wondering how software changes were going to make a noticeable affect with ghosting.


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post #64 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

You never should have been sent that RS55 until the software was finalized which it obviously wasn't. Its not like you are getting a fix for a problem that arose in the field. You got a unit that did not have the final production software.

Firmware is user updatable though. Surely they should just be able to provide Conan the firmware to update himself?! Or are we suggesting that Conan didn't receive a production unit at all, but a sample unit that should not be in the hands of an end customer?
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post #65 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Firmware is user updatable though. Surely they should just be able to provide Conan the firmware to update himself?! Or are we suggesting that Conan didn't receive a production unit at all, but a sample unit that should not be in the hands of an end customer?

Perhaps it has engineering firmware installed and this is not able to accommodate a user update?

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post #66 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Perhaps it has engineering firmware installed and this is not able to accommodate a user update?

I guess thats possible. The X70s circulating in the UK are most definitely final production units. I should be getting an X70 next week. If Conan posts his firmware details, I can check/compare mine when I get my X70.
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post #67 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

did you play with any the software features for reducing crosstalk? since the panel speeds are still 120hz, I was wondering how software changes were going to make a noticeable affect with ghosting.

Yes I did extensive test with all the settings and it did nothing to reduce the crosstalk.
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post #68 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I guess thats possible. The X70s circulating in the UK are most definitely final production units. I should be getting an X70 next week. If Conan posts his firmware details, I can check/compare mine when I get my X70.

So the final firmware is available but not yet installed on Conan's machine. Simple human error could explain this (and it makes complete sense that the unit could ship from China without the final firmware load). It'll be interesting to see if the firmware update resolves Conan's ghosting (and I imagine it could).

So, Jonathan,
I think many of us will be very interested in your RS55 findings and opinions. I know you love to calibrate () and hopefully you'll be able to answer some open questions about the CMS and Gamma controls and what improvements you see over the 50.

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post #69 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 01:24 PM
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Why cant people just accept and appreciate that JVC offer projectors with exceptional 2D performance and that 2D performance has never been better, although little different to last year.

If you want 3D or are worried about lamp life buy something else.
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post #70 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Post #1994 is where I first mentioned this lines above the letters issue in the 40 owners thread........

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...296327&page=67

Like I mentioned though, this became a total non issue for me once I understood what it was and that it was not unusual. Since it VERY rarely presents itself in real material, I forgot about it fairly quickly. You need the right type of scene to even see it like a solid background with letters on top. Like any display type artifact though, how much it bothers someone will depend on the individual.


I've seen it as well on my 50 Todd and it hasn't bothered my either (to me that initial camera shot of Conan's looks exaggerated but I suspect it's the camera contributing to this).

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post #71 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Why cant people just accept and appreciate that JVC offer projectors with exceptional 2D performance and that 2D performance has never been better, although little different to last year.

If you want 3D or are worried about lamp life buy something else.

Then they should just remove the 3d "feature" completely. If however they are going to advertise this as a 3d projector, which obviously they are, it is open to critical debate/comparison vs other models. IF the ghosting gets worse as the hours are tacked on like previous models, these projectors are flat out broken IMHO from a 3d standpoint and JVC deserves all the **** the consumer gives them (IMO).

As far as lamp life, this is also a valid concern. Some people are willing to take the risk, others are not. Those willing to take the risk though have every right to go in cautiously optimistic so to speak considering the mess that is the 40/50/60 as far as the lamp issue is concerned. IF this issue is still present, JVC deserves whatever backlash it gets from the hard core projector community. The next year should be very interesting as far as these new models are concerned and it will be interesting to see what happens.

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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

I've seen it as well on my 50 Todd and it hasn't bothered my either (to me that initial camera shot of Conan's looks exaggerated but I suspect it's the camera contributing to this).

Thanks for confirming Kevin. Both mine and Sams RS40 showed this same thing. If this bothers someone enough, I dont know that swapping units is going to do much good since this seems pretty normal for these projectors (and maybe previous JVCs and other projectors as well as far as I know). I guess everyone needs to see this for themselves to know if it is an issue or not, but like you this is a non issue for me and my viewing habits.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #72 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I just got a message from my dealer saying they wan't me to send the projector back for a software/firmware update

I'll send it in sometime next week maybe. I'll try to find out what it's for, before sending it in. If I do send it in, I'll mention the white streaks, and excessive crosstalk and see if it's a defect or not. Guys I wouldn't freak out too much yet about the crosstalk. I'm thinking something is bad, as it's noticeably worse then the x7 with the exact same material. The crosstalk is also weird that sometimes you don't see the double image itself but just a hard outline of the ghosted image (i'll try and post a picture)

I wonder if it's 3D related (firmware)? and I hope someone does a comparison with the old vs. new glasses to see if they help with crosstalk.

Off too work, but I'll post some more 2D impressions tonight. I need to watch an entire movie from start to finish So far I like the X70 more then the VW90 for film and with the improved CMD, and more dynamic image of the x70, I think it will be great for sports too.

I'll also test to see if anything can get rid of the white streaks. They are not bad, but my x7 did not have them at all.

My dealer is pretty good at keeping me updated with JVC info and he seems to somehow get everything first in Canada for the best price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

You never should have been sent that RS55 until the software was finalized which it obviously wasn't. Its not like you are getting a fix for a problem that arose in the field. You got a unit that did not have the final production software.


Well this makes perfect sense as I was shocked when Conan announced he received a 55 already. I heard from a very in-the-know birdie that all 55's were to be delayed by a week because of a firmware issue (I think it was 3D related but not 100% I heard correctly).

I agree w/ Lawguy... can you show us some convergence pics and how well the new feature works IYO?

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post #73 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Why cant people just accept and appreciate that JVC offer projectors with exceptional 2D performance and that 2D performance has never been better, although little different to last year.

If you want 3D or are worried about lamp life buy something else.

It is a headache hearing about 3D, but I will be getting the rs55 for 2D. I will maybe watch a 3D movie every month or two. Can't see me buying an expensive projector for mainly 3D when there are a couple of 1080p 3D projector for $1500. 3D is a good bonus for me. I learned my lesson last year when I got 3D crazy and stop watching it because I preferred the 2D versions better. Good thing that 3D movies sell fast on ebay. I Sold 40 3d blu rays on ebay in less than 7 days. I have to admit though, Uncharter 3 is really good in 3D with my cheap DLP.
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post #74 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

It's my understanding that the 55's are slightly delayed while waiting for a final firmware update. I also understand the 45 firmware is final. I've not read any comments from 45 owners saying ghosting is worse than last year. I think it's fair to say that someone screwed up by releasing Conan's unit before it had the final firmware installed. I don't see how that computes to "another half baked year for JVC". And before we condemn JVC QA why not wait to see if the firmware update fixes it?

I agree Geof! Let's not get into the same BS we did last year and jump on every little (initial) finding or impression until we have a good baseline of confirmed results (else we will again drive Mr. Haflich CRAZY!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

did you play with any the software features for reducing crosstalk? since the panel speeds are still 120hz, I was wondering how software changes were going to make a noticeable affect with ghosting.

I think Conan did mention that Jason (that he did try all the settings for crosstalk and it didn't help).

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post #75 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I guess thats possible. The X70s circulating in the UK are most definitely final production units. I should be getting an X70 next week. If Conan posts his firmware details, I can check/compare mine when I get my X70.

That is awesome news Jonathan and I very much look forward to your impressions! I saw Manny chimed in once or twice but he never replied to me. Have you guys talked and is he planning on an X70 as well??

I know a lot of the vets here are dying to know if CMS and gamma have been corrected! (God I hope so!) Now that my 50 is sold I can't wait to get the 55 and start "playing" (looks like still about 10 days out or so).

EDIT - Didn't notice Geof and I were thinking the same thing when he posted earlier (gee there's a surprise!)

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post #76 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

That is awesome news Jon and I very much look forward to your impressions! I saw Manny chimed in once or twice but he never replied to me. Have you guys talked and is he planning on an X70 as well??

Does Jonathan do impressions?

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post #77 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post



I think Conan did mention that Jason (that he did try all the settings for crosstalk and it didn't help).

kevin, I was also asking the other fellow who also had a few hours to play with the X70, he mentioned the same thing as Conan, that the controls really didn't do anything.

I was expecting the ghosting to be the same as last year, I understand there's a few tricks they can play with the software, but the panels are still the same speed.

I am looking forward to JonStatt's review, he was one of the original X7 owners and knows a thing or two about calibration. I'd like to know if they made improvements with the gamma fouling up the grayscale and the CMS. Does it still flash the screen between each small change?


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post #78 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I just got a message from my dealer saying they wan't me to send the projector back for a software/firmware update

If possible, post the current FW version for reference.

2014
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post #79 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Does Jonathan do impressions?

Let's hope it's not one of Emmett Kelly the crying clown (after completing his first cal!)

Jason - Agreed! Can't wait!!

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post #80 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 02:38 PM
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I have been told the 55s are delayed ( some sort of update needed) but I cannot speak first hand what the issue discovered was but glad JVC decided to delay to fix the issue. The 45s will ship first.
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post #81 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 04:38 PM
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can the ghosting be reduced by using Monster vision 3D glasses? Zombie10k had very good experience in reducing quite a bit of ghosting in the VW95... wondering if the glasses can help in this case here?

I am torn between VW95 and RS55...Seems like RS55 will be excellent in 2D with its 4K and I like the filmlike look. However, VW95 will also be perfect for 3D... although I do agree that I might only watch 3D once in a while, and usually they are animations and kids probably don't care much about ghosting (as long as there is no real ghost coming out ). Man... tough decision.
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post #82 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 04:43 PM
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BTW, it will be good to know if we have some measurements on lumens and fan noise.
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post #83 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 04:58 PM
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If the 3D is a bust for the 2012 models, does anyone know if JVC are working on new faster panels for the 2013 models (and a faster processor to enable 3D FI)?
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post #84 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 05:37 PM
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I am torn between VW95 and RS55...Seems like RS55 will be excellent in 2D with its 4K and I like the filmlike look. However, VW95 will also be perfect for 3D... although I do agree that I might only watch 3D once in a while, and usually they are animations and kids probably don't care much about ghosting (as long as there is no real ghost coming out ). Man... tough decision.

I certainly agree that these are the top contenders at this price level, and also that one should really focus on 2d performance, in all of its facets (brightness, CR, 'pop', sharpness, motion handling, etc.). 3d is a novelty add-on and not what really matters (IMHO). I am looking forward to some 'professional' reviews of these 2 pj's, e.g., by cine4home, Phil Hinton, etc. I think that both of them are so good that 'hobbiests' (like me) would think that either one of them would be fantastic, so hard to put too much credibility on individual reports (such as mine have been in the past!).
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post #85 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 05:47 PM
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can the ghosting be reduced by using Monster vision 3D glasses? Zombie10k had very good experience in reducing quite a bit of ghosting in the VW95... wondering if the glasses can help in this case here?

JoeRod is due for a 55 soon, i'm sure he'll use the MV3D's to see if it can work for the 55 in the same way it works on the HW30/VW95.

I couldn't get it to do much to reduce ghosting on the 50. It may have to do with the faster panels on the Sony.


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post #86 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


JoeRod is due for a 55 soon, i'm sure he'll use the MV3D's to see if it can work for the 55 in the same way it works on the HW30/VW95.

I couldn't get it to do much to reduce ghosting on the 50. It may have to do with the faster panels on the Sony.

let's pray that it does something magical.. Joe, please make this your priority after your honeymoon!!
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post #87 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

That is awesome news Jonathan and I very much look forward to your impressions! I saw Manny chimed in once or twice but he never replied to me. Have you guys talked and is he planning on an X70 as well??

I know a lot of the vets here are dying to know if CMS and gamma have been corrected! (God I hope so!) Now that my 50 is sold I can't wait to get the 55 and start "playing" (looks like still about 10 days out or so).

EDIT - Didn't notice Geof and I were thinking the same thing when he posted earlier (gee there's a surprise!)

Which calibration package are you using?

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post #88 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


JoeRod is due for a 55 soon, i'm sure he'll use the MV3D's to see if it can work for the 55 in the same way it works on the HW30/VW95.

I couldn't get it to do much to reduce ghosting on the 50. It may have to do with the faster panels on the Sony.

I will be interested in this too. I think JVC is using the same size bulb as last year but more lumens are claimed this year??
The Sony 30 vs JVC rs45
Sony 95 vs JVC rs55.
I would like to see the numbers on these.
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post #89 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Why cant people just accept and appreciate that JVC offer projectors with exceptional 2D performance and that 2D performance has never been better, although little different to last year.

If you want 3D or are worried about lamp life buy something else.

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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Then they should just remove the 3d "feature" completely. If however they are going to advertise this as a 3d projector, which obviously they are, it is open to critical debate/comparison vs other models. IF the ghosting gets worse as the hours are tacked on like previous models, these projectors are flat out broken IMHO from a 3d standpoint and JVC deserves all the **** the consumer gives them (IMO).

As far as lamp life, this is also a valid concern. Some people are willing to take the risk, others are not. Those willing to take the risk though have every right to go in cautiously optimistic so to speak considering the mess that is the 40/50/60 as far as the lamp issue is concerned. IF this issue is still present, JVC deserves whatever backlash it gets from the hard core projector community. The next year should be very interesting as far as these new models are concerned and it will be interesting to see what happens...

Would you purchase a convertible and be happy with your purchase not knowing if you could put the top down after so many drives because of a potential design flaw with the automobile knowing the manufacturer probably wouldn't cover it if it's under warranty?

I know you aren't interested in 3D and the 2D on these projectors is great but these are 3D projectors and being sold just as that just like Toe said. Others invest their hard earned cash into other A/V equipment and media to enjoy 2D and 3D. The most frustrating part of all this is that these projectors are such good 2D projectors being sold as 2D/3D projectors.
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post #90 of 3675 Old 11-25-2011, 09:01 PM
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Of course this is all speculative at best, based on one example that may not be typical.

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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