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post #1 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys. Just mounted the projector and spent 3 hours watching a bunch of content to give some first impressions. My dealer told me I'm the first person in North America to get an X70 and a couple of dealers got a few demos in the UK.

Anyhow, if you wan't the quick review this is it. Damn, this thing is awesome! It improves upon the X7/RS50 in every way imaginable. I really can't wait until more people get this projector. It produces a picture that is better then any other projector I've seen/owned (I have not seen any 20+ K projectors and don't plan to.)

For now, I'll post 2D impressions only, as I've not had to time to test the 3D yet. I've been busy with the Sony HMD and I'll tell you what. The Sony HMD pretty much makes any other 3D device obsolete, that's another post though. The HMD for 2D doesn't compare to a good projector however.

1. Brightness. Definitely brighter then the RS50. It looks about as bright on low as my RS50 was on high lamp mode.

2. E-shift is for real. I was skeptical that it would produce a noticeable improvement but WOW!. I sit about a screen width away and I can't believe how smooth, sharp, and 3 dimensional the image looks. It brings out details that I've never seen from my test clips. Example, the opening of the Dark Knight. You can see every fiber, every tiny facial pore, every little nick in the clown masks. The pixel structure is completely INVISIBLE. I though it was already invisible with the X7, but until you see the 4K eshift image in person. You wont really be able to appreciate what I'm saying. Also, there is no way to enable or disable eshift in the menu. Have to find out how to get into the service menu to check it out.

3. Sharpness. Not sure how this is affected by e-shift, but the sharpness is outstanding. About as sharp as a good DLP. Just had the Infocus Sp8602 (had to sell because of mounting issues), and I would say sharpness is very close between the two.

4. Motion. Not sure again if it's the e-shift, but the 24p motion on this thing is DLP like. VERY GOOD, with almost no judder, and amazing levels of detail during motion. Better then the x7.

CMD has been improved. I was actually shocked to notice less artifacting around objects as I was led to believe that JVC didn't do anything to CMD, but they made some improvements. I would say it's gone from a poor rating to a good. Not as clean as the Sony VW90, but it's more aggresive and creates a better SOE. (if you like that sort of look)

I will run the FPD motion benchmarks ASAP, for a more detailed review of the motion.

5. Depth/Pop. The x70 has a more dynamic picture then the X7, and really looks more like a DLP. If I had been subject to a blind test I would have said that the X70 was a DLP (the lack of rainbows would have given it away, but you know what I mean). Really awesome, and I was surprised at the "pop". I even turned down to IRIS to try and match the X7, but is still had the depth and pop.

I can't wait until you guys get this projector. I would seriously consider the X70 over the X30 because the e-shift feature works, and produces an image that is VERY sharp, yet still feels analogue and not digital. It's kind of weird that you get a picture that is both sharper and smoother at the same time.

I'll post more impressions over the days. I've already found 1 issue which may be a defect, but I'm not sure and I'll post a picture of what I see. Also, there is some visible noise in the image, but it's barely ever noticeable, and I remember having some visible noise with the X7 that wen't away after the projector was broken in for a few hundred hours. Also it's still unclear how the lamp will hold up, as it's the same lamp as the X7 (I'm sure your all aware how many issues there were with them).

The one thing that I noticed that kinda bothers me is on a black background, something like a pause icon will have white streaks above and below it on the black background. Not sure what is causing it, and it may have something to do with e-shift, not sure. It's not really apparent on actual content, but it may be as I watch more stuff. I'll post a pic.

I haven't messed around with settings, or convergence (they have zone convergence now) just did most of my watching in THX mode. I used to have a friend who did my calibrations for me, but he moved I may have to learn to do it myself now. So I can't really help with questions on greyscale, gamma, or CMS functionality. I'm just giving eyes on reports.

The remote now has extra 3D buttons (3D setting, and 3D format) and also a Lens memory button where the Lens aperature button was before(I miss that button already)

You may call this over excitement, or the honeymoon period, but I can assure you that I've never seen a picture like this before! Of course there may be issues like the one I described above, or sudden lamp dimming, or 3D that's unusable after a few hundred hours, etc But I'll report that too. If you guys read any of my previous posts, you will realize that I'm not a JVC fanboy at all and the X7 gave me serious issues, and the X7 was my first JVC projector. As of now the picture is incredible, and I think this is the projector of the year (VW95 should be a contender too, but if it's about the same as the VW90, then the X70 has it beat for Film) I still haven't watched enough live action sports, or Docs to have a firm opinion as to how it stacks up to the VW90.

I'll be busy the next few days with more critical viewing, and motion tests will be forthcoming, and of course I'm still testing the Sony HMD (which of course I've found a few issue already which no ones has mentioned, lucky me!) Oh and some 3D testing too!

Just took a break from writing this post to quickly watch 20min of stuff. LOL. Again, WOW. If nothing crazy happens within the next while, I don't see my observations changing much

Ask questions but please be patient as I'm busy, and won't respond 24hours aday I think you guys who preordered from AVS, or are going to preorder will be very happy with your decision. I really can't wait to hear what people think when they get these into their homes. I really wasn't expecting a big improvement from the X70 and was way more excited in getting my HMD then the projector, but the X70 makes the X7 look like a prototype. X70 is better in every way and has surpassed my expectations.
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post #2 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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These are the streaks that I'm seeing over black backgrounds with white text. Have no idea what is causing it. Haven't really been bothered by it from normal viewing distance or seen it during content but it's still there.

You'll also notice a halo or border around the letters. That's not actually visible by the eye and I think it's the e-shifted image that showing up in the picture!
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post #3 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Some close up shots of the screen from the Dark Knight. Doesn't really do justice to seeing it in person but you may get an idea of the detail.
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post #4 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 08:15 PM
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FYI -

The service menu can probably be accessed the same way as for last year's models:

Press up, down, right, left, enter (press these buttons in this sequence and do it fairly fast). You may need to try several times to get the timing just right to bring up the service menu screen.

Perhaps e-Shift can be turned off there - for a direct comparison of the on vs. off image.

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post #5 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Extreme close up of the FBI warning letters. (gives an idea of how smooth letters appear)

Also a nice full frame shot from Planet of the Apes (very good detail)

These shots are from my iphone and are just intended to show off eshift feature. Off course the actual picture is much better then the screen shots.
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post #6 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 08:30 PM
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can you pop the lamp later when it cools off to post a photo of the markings on the lamp? I'm curious if it's similar to the one's that folks were receiving recently as a replacement.

if you get a chance over the weekend, I'd like to see the L/R 3D patterns on cold boot and 30-45 mins later.


thanks for all the good info!
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post #7 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 08:32 PM
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If you stand back 1.5 SW, or 2 SW, is eshift still beneficial?

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post #8 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 08:51 PM
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Great report Conan!

I noticed the same streaks on my 40 last year and reported it here. Someone explained what this was, but I would have to find the posts to explain it (maybe someone can chime in). Its normal for these JVCs (Sams 40 had it as well) though and it very rarely ever presented itself with the material I watched.

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post #9 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Hey guys. Just mounted the projector and spent 3 hours watching a bunch of content to give some first impressions. My dealer told me I'm the first person in North America to get an X70 and a couple of dealers got a few demos in the UK.

Anyhow, if you wan't the quick review this is it. Damn, this thing is awesome! It improves upon the X7/RS50 in every way imaginable. I really can't wait until more people get this projector. It produces a picture that is better then any other projector I've seen/owned (I have not seen any 20+ K projectors and don't plan to.)

Ask questions but please be patient as I'm busy, and won't respond 24hours aday I think you guys who preordered from AVS, or are going to preorder will be very happy with your decision. I really can't wait to hear what people think when they get these into their homes. I really wasn't expecting a big improvement from the X70 and was way more excited in getting my HMD then the projector, but the X70 makes the X7 look like a prototype. X70 is better in every way and has surpassed my expectations.

Oh no! . . . Look what you've done . . .



Nice initial review buddy!!


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post #10 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Great report Conan!

I noticed the same streaks on my 40 last year and reported it here. Someone explained what this was, but I would have to find the posts to explain it (maybe someone can chime in). Its normal for these JVCs (Sams 40 had it as well) though and it very rarely ever presented itself with the material I watched.


Sounds like we're gettin' the band back together! All us old sickoz is comin' out of the woodwork!!

What's up bruthah!? So how much snow do you and Sammy have already??

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post #11 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Just ran the motion tests and the good news is that CMD FI is way better then the X7.

The Hammock scene had no fringing or false contouring, and very little artifacts around edges.

The store pan clip also looked very good with no artifacts, and street numbers were all clearly visible. Also, the texture of the trees and brick remained detailed during motion.

The license plate car clip also looked great. Every license plate is clearly visible and also no fringing at all. Very slight artifacting around license plate numbers.

Without FI the results were very good also. There was no hint of fringing or false contouring and detail was very good on all tests.

I'm not sure if it's mentioned in any press release or info from JVC, but the motion is definitely improved from last years model.

Also watched some planet earth and Anime for motion tests and it was great. With FI again there was almost no artifacting but I did notice a few times where the FI seemed to turn itself off and then on again. Very hard to see it happen, but it's there very infrequently. I wonder if JVC changed how the FI works like the Epson, where it disengages itself when the scene becomes to difficult. Very interesting.

I don't think anyone has to worry about motion issues. I just came off the Sp8602, so motion issue would stand out like a sore thumb to me. Good so far.

I checked the service menu and there is no option that hints at eshift or 4k. I wonder what it could be?

There is an option in the service menu and advanced menu called MPC. I have no idea what it does but toggling it seems to sharpen everything up without any bad effects. I wonder if this is eshift. I'll have to get up to the screen and test it out.
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post #12 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 10:17 PM
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Awesome stuff so far Conan!

How do the blacks/contrast compare to the x7?

How does the native motion and FI motion compare to the Sony VW90?

How does the sharpness compare to the VW90?

Is the high lamp fan noise bothersome?

Does the e-shift increase the overall picture quality?

Thanks!
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post #13 of 3675 Old 11-23-2011, 10:42 PM
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Great news on the FI, I hope the RS-45 has the updated FI as well.

The FI does not work in 3D mode though, right?

So you prefer the JVC over the Infocus sp8602?


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post #14 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 04:35 AM
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Sample of sharpness with sharpness set to 0 on my HD-350 (RS10). Compared to iphone best so far RS55/X70.

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post #15 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

These are the streaks that I'm seeing over black backgrounds with white text. Have no idea what is causing it. Haven't really been bothered by it from normal viewing distance or seen it during content but it's still there.

You'll also notice a halo or border around the letters. That's not actually visible by the eye and I think it's the e-shifted image that showing up in the picture!

I'm surprised no one else commented on this yet. This has me concerned. Is the white lettering with the streaks on program material or was the pic you took from the menu screen?

Also, what type of screen are you using? I'm wondering how benificial the 4k e-shift is on an AT screen like the Seymour XD material.

Thanks for your first impressions!
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post #16 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 06:04 AM
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Thanks Conan for the quick review! You've put my mind at ease! Can't wait to get my unit!
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post #17 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 06:27 AM
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Can you try looking at a single pixel crosshatch pattern and take a picture of that?

Those streaks look like something lens-related.

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post #18 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Great news on the FI, I hope the RS-45 has the updated FI as well.

The FI does not work in 3D mode though, right?

So you prefer the JVC over the Infocus sp8602?

I read the FI improvement is due to 4K so may be not applicable to RS45.
I hope I'm wrong.
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post #19 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

I'm surprised no one else commented on this yet. This has me concerned. Is the white lettering with the streaks on program material or was the pic you took from the menu screen?

Also, what type of screen are you using? I'm wondering how benificial the 4k e-shift is on an AT screen like the Seymour XD material.

Thanks for your first impressions!

Tom, as I mentioned above this was talked about last year in the RS40 thread since I noticed the same thing. A good explanation was given as far as what this was exactly which I cant remember off hand. I have seen it on both RS40s I have watched (my own and damnsam77s) You can try and search it out, or I will try and find it when I get more time. Bottom line though is this is "normal". If it bothers you or not will depend on the viewer. I found it a non issue with real world viewing since it VERY rarely reared its ugly head (unless you like to obsess on movie credits).

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post #20 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Sounds like we're gettin' the band back together! All us old sickoz is comin' out of the woodwork!!

What's up bruthah!? So how much snow do you and Sammy have already??

The band is back together and gearing up for a show!!!

Whats up dude? How is life?

Believe it or not, I have been working outside this week building a fence for a customer in shorts and a t-shirt! The weather here has been mild for the most part. We did have a few weeks in a row where we got some early snowfall, but thats about it so far. Hope it keeps up so I can stay working!

So you have a 55 coming? Me and Sam have some 45s on the way and looking forward to it!

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post #21 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

The band is back together and gearing up for a show!!!

Whats up dude? How is life?

Believe it or not, I have been working outside this week building a fence for a customer in shorts and a t-shirt! The weather here has been mild for the most part. We did have a few weeks in a row where we got some early snowfall, but thats about it so far. Hope it keeps up so I can stay working!

So you have a 55 coming? Me and Sam have some 45s on the way and looking forward to it!


All is good bro!

Sounds like some nice weather and can't really complain here in Chicago either. Supposed to be almost 60 over the next couple days!

Yep can't wait but let's hope you are the one to open the 45's owner thread this time!

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post #22 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 09:50 AM
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On the screenshot of the hd-350 vs the X70 I can clearly see the hd-350 has a more digital look to the picture. The X70 screenshot looks like there are no pixels and does have that analog feel to it which I like. Interesting indeed. It does sound weird that the X70 has both a sharper and smoother image at the same time...you would think that a smooth image would be less sharp, but Conan says it is close to DLP sharpness! Very nice!
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post #23 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

These are the streaks that I'm seeing over black backgrounds with white text. Have no idea what is causing it. Haven't really been bothered by it from normal viewing distance or seen it during content but it's still there.

You'll also notice a halo or border around the letters. That's not actually visible by the eye and I think it's the e-shifted image that showing up in the picture!


Here's a starting point on this phenomenon.
Normal or not, seems a bit disturbing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

The reversed reflection that you see is due to internal reflections within the projector.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=20150379

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=20149675

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post #24 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 12:10 PM
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Post #1994 is where I first mentioned this lines above the letters issue in the 40 owners thread........

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...296327&page=67

Like I mentioned though, this became a total non issue for me once I understood what it was and that it was not unusual. Since it VERY rarely presents itself in real material, I forgot about it fairly quickly. You need the right type of scene to even see it like a solid background with letters on top. Like any display type artifact though, how much it bothers someone will depend on the individual.

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post #25 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

These are the streaks that I'm seeing over black backgrounds with white text. Have no idea what is causing it. Haven't really been bothered by it from normal viewing distance or seen it during content but it's still there.

You'll also notice a halo or border around the letters. That's not actually visible by the eye and I think it's the e-shifted image that showing up in the picture!

If I can't see these streaks on normal viewing distances than this wouldn't be an issue.
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post #26 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 12:24 PM
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If I can't see these streaks on normal viewing distances than this wouldn't be an issue.

It depends on how bright your picture is from what I have found. It was less noticeable on my ST130 vs my HP screen. It pops up so rarely though that this will be a non issue for the vast majority of users I would have to think.

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post #27 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 12:34 PM
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Nice seeing a user review out there. Now I think you guys can see why I was so stoked about the JVC projectors, after CEDIA. After seeing E-shift turned on and off, you can clearly see a difference from 1 screen width away. Conan48, thank you for posting your impressions. After seeing the JVC's at CEDIA my only question was motion handling for sports. Still have 55's available. Contact your AVS sales person.

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post #28 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 01:24 PM
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Conan,

Thanks for the review. What type of screen are you using? What size?

If you drop the brightness, contrast or iris down a couple of notches do you notice if the fringing/reflection effect on white text is reduced?

Lastly, it would be nice to know how the lens memory works. Does it reliably return the preset position precisely?

Thanks again, and congrat's on the early receipt of the x70

Paul
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post #29 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

All is good bro!

Sounds like some nice weather and can't really complain here in Chicago either. Supposed to be almost 60 over the next couple days!

Yep can't wait but let's hope you are the one to open the 45's owner thread this time!

It looks like someone else will beat us to it this year. No way I could live up to the amazing job Sam did last year though! He really stayed on top of it!

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #30 of 3675 Old 11-24-2011, 04:45 PM
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So any comparisons to the Sony 95???
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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