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post #3421 of 4457 Old 05-11-2012, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breadvan View Post

Mike, that is interesting.

From what I understand, not that I have done this before, you connect your laptop to a DDC compliant device like a JVC RS45 to your laptop via serial cable/rs232, then also connect your meter via USB and take reading and CALMAN controls the DDC device via the serial connection. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I have the Lumagen and autocal. With it, you do not need to worry about the CMS in the projector. I will check and confirm with regards to autocal without a VP. Since the RS45 does not have much of a CMS, there is not a whole lot you can adjust.

Added
Yes you can do a limited autocal with DDC direct to the projector, but in addition to the Calman software and meter, you have to buy the workflow that goes with your projector. If you change projector brand, you will need a different workflow. I will edit my post above.

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post #3422 of 4457 Old 05-11-2012, 09:29 PM
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Great thanks Mike.

I have a DUO, my assumption is that with the autocal add-on, one could DDC autocal a supported device via serial cable, say the basic high/low grayscale, color gamut, or whatever that the device is able to control, to get close enough, and then move on to your VP to tighten things up.

Please update us.

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post #3423 of 4457 Old 05-11-2012, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breadvan View Post

Great thanks Mike.

I have a DUO, my assumption is that with the autocal add-on, one could DDC autocal a supported device via serial cable, say the basic high/low grayscale, color gamut, or whatever that the device is able to control, to get close enough, and then move on to your VP to tighten things up.

Please update us.

Yes, you could do the basics that way and then do the full auto calibration with the serial cable connected to the Duo, making all changes to the CMS in the Duo.

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post #3424 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 01:02 AM
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I'm debating on grabbing a semi-cheap VP (well maybe very cheap). I was going to run everything through the HTPC (using an HTPC bluray player) and then attempt to use PC color correction software, but it looks like a major mess (it can work, but it's a lot of trouble), plus it is still limiting to ONLY your PC's bluray player and streaming on the PC (which isn't as good IMHO), unless you want to attempt to create a bit-modded HDMI input/output switching system on the PC (now that looks expensive and messy).

The whole HTPC thing could be simple and good, but the HTPC software and external hardware market is so disorganized and messy. Part of it is licensing restrictions Sony implemented for Bluray devices. It's like a major job hunting through all the forum threads finding what works and what does not work.


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post #3425 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 06:36 AM
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I know that every projector (lamp) acts different and for the best result one needs to ISF calibrate for the best results. But can someone give me some basic settings that will result in optimal near REC709 picture?

Picture Mode: Film Cinema, Animation, Natural, Stage, 3D or User?
Contrast: 0 (default) best?
Brightness: 0 (default) best?
Color: 0 (default) best?
Tint: 0 (default) best?
Color temp: 6500k?
Gamma: A, B, C, D or custom?
Color Space: Standard, Wide1 or Wide2?
Sharpness: 0 (default) best?
Detail Enhance: 0 (default) best?
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post #3426 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I have the Lumagen and autocal. With it, you do not need to worry about the CMS in the projector. I will check and confirm with regards to autocal without a VP. Since the RS45 does not have much of a CMS, there is not a whole lot you can adjust.

Added
Yes you can do a limited autocal with DDC direct to the projector, but in addition to the Calman software and meter, you have to buy the workflow that goes with your projector. If you change projector brand, you will need a different workflow. I will edit my post above.

Thanks for the update this makes sense now.
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post #3427 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateTTU View Post

Thanks for the update this makes sense now.

Nate, until you pointed out who you were, I did not know. I am at a disadvantage, because you guys know my name and it is hard to put real names to AVS handles. I sent you an email about the projector. Let me know what you are doing.

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post #3428 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

But can someone give me some basic settings that will result in optimal near REC709 picture?

Cinema Mode in Standard Color Space
6000k or 6500k Color Temp (depends, just whichever one looks better)

Gamma setting Trick without a meter
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21652169

Without modding the Gamma with the above trick, you can try Normal (but there is huge variance between JVC units on this setting, so going to custom and choosing 2.4 might be better), or A or even D if you want more punch in bright scenes

Tint: 0
Color: -10 to 0

Contrast and Brightness probably either -6br/13cr for enhanced or 0/0 depending on your Bluray player's HDMI output setting (enhanced or standard).

Sharpness and Detail Enhance are really up to you and depends what source you are watching. If you turn them up too high, you may see a bit of grain or a texture-like look to the image.
Sharpness: 5 and Detail Enhance: 5 is a good start.

As far as what settings I would choose by eye, well if doing it by eye you still need a calibration disk to check it (free AVS Rec709 download can burn to a DVD), but beyond that instead of trying to get the calibration perfectly, I would make some decisions based on movies that have a yellow BIAS to them because this is where the largest visible error is on the JVC as far as saturation tracking combining with standardized calibration settings. Two movies to test for a YELLOW PUSH are Columbiana and The Immortals, these movies both naturally push towards yellow but the key is if your JVC makes the color in the beginning of them TOO cartoony looking. If the scenes in the beginning are WAY too Yellow looking (keep in mind a little yellow is normal), then I would choose something close to the above settings I posted still, but within those above settings I would pick whatever makes the yellow less cartoony looking without ruining or affecting movies that are filmed closer to d65 with more neutral lighting (Tree of Life as an example for checking skin tones in real world content). For tree of life, I would say the scenes of the baby running around in the house (around 40 minutes or so), are probably some of the most accurate skin tones ever filmed in a movie (I'm sure there are many other good examples). Some of the outdoor skin tones in TOL are also very accurate, most of the skin tones in this movie are darn near filmed exactly at D65 lighting. Apollo 13 and Mr. Popper Penguins also have some fairly neutral skin tones in some scenes (there are other movies, just can't think of them ATM), but none I've seen are really as perfect as Tree of Life as far as closest to D65. So basically after choosing settings semi-close to the above I posted, then pick the ones that look best across varying content (and leave it at that).

It is better to just go buy a meter.


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post #3429 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 11:14 AM
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thanks for your detailed reply coderguy, really appriciate!

Another question. I just found out that the RS45 has a second color space setting (in the picture adjust settings so NOT in the hdmi settings). The manual says that you can switch the color space display of the projector output.

Settings to choose from are:

- Standard
Equivalent to the HDTV color space

- Wide 1
Equivalent to the color space of the DCI standard

- Wide 2
A color space that is broader than Wide 1

Any idea which I have to choose when looking at my config?

my config:
HTPC with:
- Blu-Ray content to play
- Media Player Classic Home Cinema
- madVR as output renderer (set to PC levels 0-255 as RGB output levels)
- LAV video filter (RGB set to 'untouched' in LAV video filter)
- NVIDIA GTX460 with default 1080p23 profile BUT with n vidia fix during installation (for further information about this fix check http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...post&p=1328716)
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post #3430 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 01:45 PM
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Standard


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- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
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post #3431 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 01:55 PM
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Just watched "The Avengers" at one of the local theaters.It is a decent action flick! I can't wait till I can watch it on the RS45. There are scenes in this movie that look terrible at the theater! I'm sure no one noticed it except me. The entire time I watched the movie, I was imagining how much better it would look at home on the JVC.
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post #3432 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

Just watched "The Avengers" at one of the local theaters.It is a decent action flick! I can't wait till I can watch it on the RS45. There are scenes in this movie that look terrible at the theater! I'm sure no one noticed it except me. The entire time I watched the movie, I was imagining how much better it would look at home on the JVC.

Was it a digital theater?
Or are all theaters digital now?
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post #3433 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Was it a digital theater?
Or are all theaters digital now?

Yes it was digital. It was at one of the newest theaters in the area. One of the largest theater chains in the country is based here. I live around the corner from the main office. So they use the good stuff in the local theaters. Still not in the ballpark of what I experience at home. I'm not certain, but it sure looked like LCOS. The contrast in the darker/mixed scenes wasn't all that great. Even the bright scenes left something to be desired. I could see the haze in all scenes.
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post #3434 of 4457 Old 05-12-2012, 02:39 PM
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Yah, commercial projectors just do not have the contrast because the light path and optics are made for brightness, otherwise it would reduce the lumens too far down. Those giant screens need tremendous brightness which means less contrast.


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post #3435 of 4457 Old 05-13-2012, 12:52 AM
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The theater I saw Avengers at had a TON of black crush. But the movie was great!
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post #3436 of 4457 Old 05-13-2012, 06:39 AM
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Does anyone here have experience controlling the RS45u over Ethernet? I have established a connection to it on the port published in the manual and I'm wondering exactly how the "3-Way Handshake" (PJ_OK; PJREQ; PJACK)works.

It seems that I need to do the handshake for each command... does that seem right? Can't I leave a TCP session open (while the system is on) and send commands or is it better form to establish a new session each time I send a command?

I should clarify that I'm able to control the projector by handshaking correctly but the projector only seems to accept commands for a few seconds after the handshake before I have to do it all over again. It's more or less constantly saying "PJ_OK" at me.
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post #3437 of 4457 Old 05-13-2012, 07:26 AM
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Now that this projector has been out for a while and I finally have one headed my way I have a question for you guys on brightness for my setup.

Setup: 137.7" (120" wide)16:9 Seymour XD screen with 2.35 masking panels (when needed) in a dedicated 100% light controlled theater with flat black ceiling, dark blue grey walls and black acoustic panels. It is a 2 row Erskine pro layout design (great service by the way that I need to post a review on) so the screen will be false wall mounted.

Question: with that size screen and only about a 1.0 measured gain should I mount the projector close to wide open for maximum brightness or is it bright enough for me (even with hrs on the bulb) to mount in in the back wall/in the room behind it (23'10") from the screen where I can reap the benefits of added contrast and not having a projector in the room?
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post #3438 of 4457 Old 05-13-2012, 01:52 PM
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I would get more gain for that size, but it is what it is, and yes mount it as close as possible at that screen size.


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Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
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post #3439 of 4457 Old 05-13-2012, 04:27 PM
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jdanforth,

I control the projector through Lan, but I'm not experienced with what you are talking about. I control the RS45 with my iPad using an app called Roomie and it works flawlessly. Roomie's customer service (http://www.roomieremote.com/) is fantastic and they should be able to tell you how they're controlling the projector. I highly recommend the app as well.

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post #3440 of 4457 Old 05-13-2012, 04:32 PM
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Brady84,

I have the RS45 that is 15' back from a 138" (diagonal w/ 1.1 gain) 2:35 screen and it has worked great for me. 15 feet is the closest I can have the projector to the screen and still be able to zoom out to fit the 138" anamorphic aspect.

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post #3441 of 4457 Old 05-13-2012, 07:50 PM
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Brady84: for what it's worth my rs45 is 15' back from my 120" wide 16:9 Seymour XD and I run the lamp on low power. 15' put it right in the middle of the zoom range which worked out well for room placement in my situation. I anticipate switching to high power after 500 hours or so to make up for the light loss.

Speaking of which, is there a method of converting EV from a reflective spot meter to lumens? Even if I can't convert I was planning to measure an 18% grey test pattern with the light meter to track dimming over time. What do you think about that idea?
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post #3442 of 4457 Old 05-13-2012, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbn008 View Post

jdanforth,

I control the projector through Lan, but I'm not experienced with what you are talking about. I control the RS45 with my iPad using an app called Roomie and it works flawlessly. Roomie's customer service (http://www.roomieremote.com/) is fantastic and they should be able to tell you how they're controlling the projector. I highly recommend the app as well.

Thanks! I'm controlling via Crestron but I figured it out. It seems that you have to do this handshake thing for each session and the sessions end themselves after each command. A little inconvenient but hey, it works. If anyone wants, I've now written a Crestron module that controls most functions. :-p
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post #3443 of 4457 Old 05-14-2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brady84 View Post

Now that this projector has been out for a while and I finally have one headed my way I have a question for you guys on brightness for my setup.

Setup: 137.7" (120" wide)16:9 Seymour XD screen with 2.35 masking panels (when needed) in a dedicated 100% light controlled theater with flat black ceiling, dark blue grey walls and black acoustic panels. It is a 2 row Erskine pro layout design (great service by the way that I need to post a review on) so the screen will be false wall mounted.

Question: with that size screen and only about a 1.0 measured gain should I mount the projector close to wide open for maximum brightness or is it bright enough for me (even with hrs on the bulb) to mount in in the back wall/in the room behind it (23'10") from the screen where I can reap the benefits of added contrast and not having a projector in the room?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I would get more gain for that size, but it is what it is, and yes mount it as close as possible at that screen size.

Very good advice. Even close mounted in a dark, light controlled room, I would not expect to get more than 600 to 700 hours out of a lamp with that size and gain screen. I am only looking at best image mode.

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post #3444 of 4457 Old 05-15-2012, 04:37 AM
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What do you guys think about Motion Blur with 23,976fps material (Blu-Ray) on the RS45 compared to the VW95 (both WITHOUT using FI!!). I think there is no visible difference.
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post #3445 of 4457 Old 05-15-2012, 06:22 AM
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Ive heard mention of a firmware update. Has there been one and what does it make better?
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post #3446 of 4457 Old 05-15-2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

What do you guys think about Motion Blur with 23,976fps material (Blu-Ray) on the RS45 compared to the VW95 (both WITHOUT using FI!!). I think there is no visible difference.

No idea, but I'd say the 120hz LCD's I've seen (Epsons mostly) have slightly less blur than the JVC even without FI enabled, and certainly DLP's have even less. I just don't micro-focus on motion though during normal viewing, and its only a few scenes here and there when it matters (mostly irradic action sequences where people are throwing stuff around at 100mph). FI doesn't really completely fix motion blur anyhow (especially since some is inherent to a 24p source), it just fools your eyes to some degree with extra frames, but it cannot fully fix it like a DLP with FI can. I dislike FI in movies anyways, Sony or no Sony. FI's main advantage is 3D viewing or Sports.


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post #3447 of 4457 Old 05-16-2012, 02:11 AM
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Does anybody know where I can find the firmware release note history of earlier releases?

The current JVC website does only show what the latest firmware fixes. So the history between my firmware and the current one is limited to the current and the latest release I guess. The current available firmware is version 28.056 and my DLA-X30B has 25.xxx.

I have called JVC Europe today, but the projector technican out of the office for a while.
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post #3448 of 4457 Old 05-16-2012, 05:45 AM
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If you google jvc x-30 firmware there is a link to a jvc/ken wood page that lists a couple changes in the latest version. Mostly behavior changes nothing major but like any manufacturer there are always bug fixes in a release they don't tell you about. The upgrade is easy, follow their instructions to the letter and you'll be done.
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post #3449 of 4457 Old 05-16-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerman View Post

If you google jvc x-30 firmware there is a link to a jvc/ken wood page that lists a couple changes in the latest version. Mostly behavior changes nothing major but like any manufacturer there are always bug fixes in a release they don't tell you about. The upgrade is easy, follow their instructions to the letter and you'll be done.

A question; first when you say "follow their instructions to the letter..." I'm assuming you are referring to the Ken Wood instructions, or am I incorrect?
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post #3450 of 4457 Old 05-16-2012, 11:40 AM
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So if I haven't upgraded the firmware yet on my RS45 (AVS pre-order vintage), should I? I thought for sure that someone said somewhere that one of the non-current updates either messed a few things up, or made some adjustments or something...
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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