Official JVC X30 / RS45 owner's thread! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 02:12 AM
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The X3/RS40 and X30/RS45 contrast and brightness numbers are not comparable as the X3 was measured after calibration for accurate colour and the X30/RS45 was not, or so it appears.

When the X30/RS45 is calibrated it should be about the same as the X3/RS40.

The same goes for the X7/RS50 and X70/RS55 comparison.
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post #92 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 02:29 AM
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However, the translated website seems to suggest both the X30 and X70 is measured at D65 calibrated value...

Brightness D65 (eco)
Brightness measured with the short focal iris open or automatic mode.
Projector calibrated to D65 - eco lamp mode.

Brightness D65 (normal)
Same but in normal mode of the lamp.
(The noise problem can be more important
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post #93 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 02:43 AM
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Note that you don't get the 64,000:1 at the same time as the 930 lumens on the X30. What's more telling is the contrast with the iris fully open on these results. Last year's X7 was only 18,000:1 in fully open for example which is surprisingly low. I also noticed that the old HD100 (RS2) has significantly higher contrast than my HD350 yet JVC claimed the same 30,000:1 for both, so it's an interesting link you've posted.

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post #94 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

However, the translated website seems to suggest both the X30 and X70 is measured at D65 calibrated value...

Brightness D65 (eco)
Brightness measured with the short focal iris open or automatic mode.
Projector calibrated to D65 - eco lamp mode.

Brightness D65 (normal)
Same but in normal mode of the lamp.
(The noise problem can be more important

Hi,

you're right, but it was pre product models.

All Information are on this sheet (with detail for each projector in different sheet) :

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/Colorim...rojecteurs.xls

For information :

focale courte = Short Throw
focale longue = Long throw
iris ouvert = iris open
iris fermé = iris closed
lampe normale = eco lamp mode
lampe haute = high lamp mode

and it seems that the X30 has high brigthness and high contrast :

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/v...251#p175667251

Another sheet for Comparison is on this post.
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post #95 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 04:03 AM
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I had originally thought that these new models were just updated versions of last years ones with small changes. I think I might have been wrong. It has taken JVC a long time to get these models out and it seems that they are still updating firmware on the 70. The case may be the same but what is under the hood is what is important. Love to see a Cine4home review.
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post #96 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 04:08 AM
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It's hard for me to believe that no professional review site/magazine has had one in their hands. It's tough waiting for this thing as it is. Why does JVC not wish to give their products in the hands of reviewers? Are they afraid they will find its faults therefore taking away sales?
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post #97 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 04:17 AM
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There could be several reasons why JVC has not let professional reviews get their hands on the units yet. 1. It is possible that they have been tweaking their firmware and want to get it right before subjecting their machines to reviews. 2. In the past JVC released units to reviewers and they had issues that were reported and were not fixed.

The fact is that reviewers will get units one way or another so we should hear something soon. The reviews will also come from several forum members that have as much experience with projectors as most reviewers.
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post #98 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 04:28 AM
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The secrecy of it all makes me nervous. The lamp issue and all. I know, I know.. I can buy a different PJ but thats just it, I don't see any of the other PJ's competing with this one for 2D (at this price point). I need high calibrated lumens for my 120" 2.35 screen and lens memory. The Panasonic just won't cut it for brightness. I'm just hoping this PJ will not disappoint.
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post #99 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm View Post

It's hard for me to believe that no professional review site/magazine has had one in their hands. It's tough waiting for this thing as it is. Why does JVC not wish to give their products in the hands of reviewers? Are they afraid they will find its faults therefore taking away sales?

Hi,

the measures are realised with this professional :

http://www.cinemotion.biz/noticias.php

You are here a "short" review (with another projector too) :

http://www.cinemotion.biz/noticia_de...=1198&ccat_n=0

http://translate.google.com/translat...8%26ccat_n%3D0
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post #100 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

Please only use the term rebadged if that is actually what it is. Since the RS45 adds lens memory among other features, it is not a rebadge of the RS40. If you want to say it sounds like a tweaked RS40, then that's fine. I'm just sick of the term rebadged being thrown around by people that don't seem to understand what it means.

I can call it what I want to. Since I owned 4 of the RS40'S I know exactly what it was. Lighten up...Why dont you buy one and test out that rebadged bulb for us?
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post #101 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ripley161 View Post

Yes correct, from what I have tested. You certainly cant just pop a 3d movie in and watch straight away.

uuuhhh oooooo
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post #102 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ripley161 View Post

Correct ghosting is still there but like I said earlier it doesnt look as bad on the x30 vs the x3.

Sorry if I missed this, but how did you come to that conclusion exactly? Were you able to compare the two both with the same lamp hours?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

The X3/RS40 and X30/RS45 contrast and brightness numbers are not comparable as the X3 was measured after calibration for accurate colour and the X30/RS45 was not, or so it appears.

When the X30/RS45 is calibrated it should be about the same as the X3/RS40.

The same goes for the X7/RS50 and X70/RS55 comparison.

It says right on there D65 for the X30/X70.

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post #103 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

I can call it what I want to. Since I owned 4 of the RS40'S I know exactly what it was. Lighten up...Why dont you buy one and test out that rebadged bulb for us?

You can call it what you want, doesn't make it correct. If JVC sends me one for review then I'll take a look at it. I imagine JVC has 1-2 units set aside for review, since setting aside more wouldn't make as much sense as they obviously have a lot of pre-orders to fill, and reviews will show up as those get around. As the number of units out there seem to be able to be counted on fingers now, I wouldn't expect a review from a review unit for a bit.

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post #104 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 08:35 AM
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Those test numbers on the X30 are very encouraging, but I'm thinking maybe TOO encouraging. It was noted that the model tested was a pre-production model, so I'm hoping for a test of a production model that shows even remotely similar results.

Approximately double both the brightness and the contrast of the X3 seems rather extreme given what we've heard so far.
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post #105 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

Those test numbers on the X30 are very encouraging, but I'm thinking maybe TOO encouraging. It was noted that the model tested was a pre-production model, so I'm hoping for a test of a production model that shows even remotely similar results.

Approximately double both the brightness and the contrast of the X3 seems rather extreme given what we've heard so far.

I would be willing to be alot of money you will find the real numbers for the X30 / RS45 will be very close to the RS40 / X3. What is being suggested above, in my opinion, is not possible given the light source / light engines are very similar, if not identical. Those kinds of gains are just not possible without major changes in the architecture of the projector. Not to mention, JVC would be marketing the hell out of the improved light output if it were the case and certainly they would know.
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post #106 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

You can call it what you want, doesn't make it correct. If JVC sends me one for review then I'll take a look at it. I imagine JVC has 1-2 units set aside for review, since setting aside more wouldn't make as much sense as they obviously have a lot of pre-orders to fill, and reviews will show up as those get around. As the number of units out there seem to be able to be counted on fingers now, I wouldn't expect a review from a review unit for a bit.

at 400.00 dollars cheaper than the sony 30 I hope JVC did in fact fix the bulb issue however the initial report says they didnt. We will have to wait and see. I dont know about you but sitting on the seat waiting for 30 miniutes to be able to watch a 3D movie will drive me and my guests nuts! I guess we could all arm wrestle of play spades. lmao
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post #107 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

Those test numbers on the X30 are very encouraging, but I'm thinking maybe TOO encouraging. It was noted that the model tested was a pre-production model, so I'm hoping for a test of a production model that shows even remotely similar results.

Approximately double both the brightness and the contrast of the X3 seems rather extreme given what we've heard so far.

I agree. Those seem a little too good. I would guess the actual numbers between the 40/45 will be VERY similar.

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post #108 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 08:57 AM
 
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If you are talking MSRP, the JVC is $3499 and the Sony is $3999 but the Sony includes the emitter and two pairs of glasses. If you subtract out the costs of the emitter and 2 pairs of glaases, the JVC would be about $100 less expensive. I do not think a choice between the two could be based on price except if one was not interested in 3D at all and didn't want an emitter and two pairs of glasses. The JVC because it emits the same direction polarized light from all three chips and because most screens have at least a polarization extinction ratio that would merit using 3D glasses whose polarizers are aligned with polarized light coming from the JVC, chosing the JVC glasses over others with not the same polarizer orientation, not buying the JVC glasses and chossing some other would probably not be the best decision. The JVC glasses MSRP for $179 and the emitter MSRPs at $79. Adding the JVC glasses and emitter to an RS 45 makes the JVC about $60 cheaper. Once again, hardly a reason to choose between the two. Then the extra year of the Sony warranty is free and purchassing it for the JVC would throw the money decision in the Sony's favor by quite a few hundred. But. Once again one must evaluate everything including the strength and weaknesses of each, the intended souces, and the set up parameters. Which is better generiacally is not possible to determine and it is pathetic that some repeatedely ask this question. The only question which can be answered is which is better for you.
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post #109 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

Those test numbers on the X30 are very encouraging, but I'm thinking maybe TOO encouraging. It was noted that the model tested was a pre-production model, so I'm hoping for a test of a production model that shows even remotely similar results.

Approximately double both the brightness and the contrast of the X3 seems rather extreme given what we've heard so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

I would be willing to be alot of money you will find the real numbers for the X30 / RS45 will be very close to the RS40 / X3. What is being suggested above, in my opinion, is not possible given the light source / light engines are very similar, if not identical. Those kinds of gains are just not possible without major changes in the architecture of the projector. Not to mention, JVC would be marketing the hell out of the improved light output if it were the case and certainly they would know.

I was told best mode lumens were increased around 30% across the board, not just the 55 and 65. JVC did not say a word about increased light output for the 55 and 65 and yet early reports (Cine4home) have shown about 30% increase.

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post #110 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

If you are talking MSRP, the JVC is $3499 and the Sony is $3999 but the Sony includes the emitter and two pairs of glasses. If you subtract out the costs of the emitter and 2 pairs of glaases, the JVC would be about $100 less expensive. I do not think a choice between the two could be based on price except if one was not interested in 3D at all and didn't want an emitter and two pairs of glasses. The JVC because it emits the same direction polarized light from all three chips and because most screens have at least a polarization extinction ratio that would merit using 3D glasses whose polarizers are aligned with polarized light coming from the JVC, chosing the JVC glasses over others with not the same polarizer orientation, not buying the JVC glasses and chossing some other would probably not be the best decision. The JVC glasses MSRP for $179 and the emitter MSRPs at $79. Adding the JVC glasses and emitter to an RS 45 makes the JVC about $60 cheaper. Once again, hardly a reason to choose between the two. Then the extra year of the Sony warranty is free and purchassing it for the JVC would throw the money decision in the Sony's favor by quite a few hundred. But. Once again one must evaluate everything including the strength and weaknesses of each, the intended souces, and the set up parameters. Which is better generiacally is not possible to determine and it is pathetic that some repeatedely ask this question. The only question which can be answered is which is better for you.

Mark will you be doing a side by side evaluation between these two pj's?
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post #111 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

There could be several reasons why JVC has not let professional reviews get their hands on the units yet. 1. It is possible that they have been tweaking their firmware and want to get it right before subjecting their machines to reviews. 2. In the past JVC released units to reviewers and they had issues that were reported and were not fixed.

The fact is that reviewers will get units one way or another so we should hear something soon. The reviews will also come from several forum members that have as much experience with projectors as most reviewers.

you can bet JVC isn't going to give Art a demo anytime soon, he raised a lot of questions last year about the low lumen performance of their flagship RS60, they could barely break 500 lumens @ D65 with a new lamp. The whole issue quietly faded away, they gave him some engineering mumbo jumbo at the NAB conference and that was the end of that.

Phil Hinton @ AVS also pointed out all the CMS / Gamma flaws to JVC and also no resolve. If I was JVC, I wouldn't be in rush to hand out demo's to critical reviewers until after the big first wave of sales. They don't need to anyway, the allure of deep blacks is enough to keep plenty of folks coming back for more.

Kutlow - I feel bad, you are stuck in projector purgatory. If you buy the HW30, you'll have great 2D and 3D, FI in 3D and cheap lamps with no known issues yet.... but, in a certain scene in a certain movie, might miss that extra notch of black level the JVC affords. if you get the JVC, the 2D will be great as usual, 3D ? (waiting for more results), lamp life ?, etc.

why not pick up both and just keep the one that appeals to your viewing preferences and sell the other. both models should have decent resale value in the beginning.
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post #112 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

Those test numbers on the X30 are very encouraging, but I'm thinking maybe TOO encouraging. It was noted that the model tested was a pre-production model, so I'm hoping for a test of a production model that shows even remotely similar results.

Approximately double both the brightness and the contrast of the X3 seems rather extreme given what we've heard so far.

Hi,

it's right about brightness but not for contrast :

In fact, the real comparison are :

X3 - Iris open - Short Throw : 22 800 :1
- Iris open - Long Throw : 30 000 : 1

X30 - - Iris open - Short Throw : 34 700 :1
- Iris open - Long Throw : 46 600 : 1

About the X30, the measures of contrast at 64 900 : 1 is with iris closed and long throw. This measure was not available on the X3 because brightness was too low, it's what I understand...
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post #113 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I was told best mode lumens were increased around 30% across the board, not just the 55 and 65. JVC did not say a word about increased light output for the 55 and 65 and yet early reports (Cine4home) have shown about 30% increase.

I can appreciate what you were told, but it doesn't make sense. Light output has been a key factor in making a decision on a projector and it is made even more important in the context of 3D projection. Furthermore, how are the additional lumens being extracted? If the light engine was made appreciably better they would be marketing it as upgraded. This leaves the lamp itself. Again, the lamp would be given new specifications and identified as new hardware. a redesigned/respecified lamp would be good marketing as well, given the fact that last year's lamp design has been deemed by many to be a complete failure.
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post #114 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebes View Post

Hi,

it's right about brightness but not for contrast :

In fact, the real comparison are :

X3 - Iris open - Short Throw : 22 800 :1
- Iris open - Long Throw : 30 000 : 1

X30 - - Iris open - Short Throw : 34 700 :1
- Iris open - Long Throw : 46 600 : 1

About the X30, the measures of contrast at 64 900 : 1 is with iris closed and long throw. This measure was not available on the X3 because brightness was too low, it's what I understand...

Thank you for the clarification. I'm still curious why JVC hasn't marketed the hell out of this improvement if that is what the production models are expected to achieve. It's a rather remarkable improvement, yet my understanding is that JVC marketing material lists identical specs to last year (50,000:1 and 1300 lumens).
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post #115 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

I can appreciate what you were told, but it doesn't make sense. Light output has been a key factor in making a decision on a projector and it is made even more important in the context of 3D projection. Furthermore, how are the additional lumens being extracted? If the light engine was made appreciably better they would be marketing it as upgraded. This leaves the lamp itself. Again, the lamp would be given new specifications and identified as new hardware. a redesigned/respecified lamp would be good marketing as well, given the fact that last year's lamp design has been deemed by many to be a complete failure.

You did see where Cine4home got about 30% increase in lumens over last years 50/60? Jvc did not advertise about that either. I guess we will find out before too long. Also for all the guys on the RS45 pre-order: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1375032

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post #116 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebes View Post

Hi,

it's right about brightness but not for contrast :

In fact, the real comparison are :

X3 - Iris open - Short Throw : 22 800 :1
- Iris open - Long Throw : 30 000 : 1

X30 - - Iris open - Short Throw : 34 700 :1
- Iris open - Long Throw : 46 600 : 1

About the X30, the measures of contrast at 64 900 : 1 is with iris closed and long throw. This measure was not available on the X3 because brightness was too low, it's what I understand...

50%+ increases across the board!! Absurd. Obviously, this has no chance of turning out to be the case. Someone was not performing the testing properly. I will wait until we see numbers from someone we know and trust.
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post #117 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

You did see where Cine4home got about 30% increase in lumens over last years 50/60? Jvc did not advertise about that either.

If this all turns out to be true, it is great news - I will also be applying to JVC for a marketing position because they obviously are making gross errors in this area.
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post #118 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

50%+ increases across the board!! Absurd. Obviously, this has no chance of turning out to be the case. Someone was not performing the testing properly. I will wait until we see numbers from someone we know and trust.

Hi,

me too, but maybe we'll have a good surprise.

Remember that the 30 was a pre production model and maybe the X3 was a model with a "bad" lamp, it's possible .

About increase on brigthness, when the X30, X70 and X90 were officialy unveil in italia, JVC has said there will be an increase on 30 % on the X30.

http://www.avmagazine.it/news/videop...rivo_6637.html

http://translate.google.com/translat...rivo_6637.html

But I don't know how...
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post #119 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 10:07 AM
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I suppose that by virtue of higher brightness that real world contrast will have improved over previous models: The iris will be able to be closed more and yet retain the same brightness. Particularly for 2D unless you have a very big and/or low gain screen then you should be able to take advantage of this.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #120 of 4456 Old 11-27-2011, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

If this all turns out to be true, it is great news - I will also be applying to JVC for a marketing position because they obviously are making gross errors in this area.

We can hope. I am right in there with the rest of the JVC pre-order guys.

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