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post #2101 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 12:54 PM
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First post here. Just wanted to get some opinions. I currently have the projector 16' - 6" from 134" 1.78 screen and found that I do have to zoom in to filll fill the screen. I am posting some pictures of my finding when I compare component DVD vs HDMI DVD vs Blueray HDMI. Component is best bluejean cables at 20'. HDMI is 3'. DVD player is Sony CX777ES megachanger. HDMI test using PS3.

Findings: I did not realize that the component signal would be so poor when compared to the HDMI tests. Everything seems a bit to unfocused as my pictures demonstrate. I have over 1200 movies in 4 CX777ES machines which use component only and I use a VideoStorm video switcher. Moving forward, I will expand with primarily BD. So, what to do with my current setup? I don't want to rip 1200+ movies. Any suggestions for improving the component quality? I felt I had the best I could do for component. Replacing the CX777 with the BD version at $700 each is an expensive option but that gets me HDMI. I would need a new video switcher so that's another $700 so I don't like that option. Anyway, I thought I would share these images and hopefully get some suggestions. Are my findings expected and typical?



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post #2102 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 12:58 PM
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So running -6 brightness and +13 contrast with the aparature at -12 seems as though I was crushing the blacks just a bit. So I set the blk level at +3.... would that be the correct move or should I set the brightness to -5 (didn't want to raise the blk floor)??

Also has anyone noticed their image to be a bit grainy .... on blu rays I mean? I've set the sharpness and detail enhancements both to +5... they were at +25 or +30 default I believe. I seem to lose a bit of the sharpness but it removes most of the perceived graininess.
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post #2103 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 01:04 PM
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Another image showing test pattern output. I was wondering if the interesting patterns indicate a problem with the lens or if that is expected output. Of course the original test patterns don't look like that but are single pixel test patterns called Horizontal, vertical, even.

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post #2104 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YummyCarp View Post

First post here. Just wanted to get some opinions. I currently have the projector 16' - 6" from 134" 1.78 screen and found that I do have to zoom in to filll fill the screen. I am posting some pictures of my finding when I compare component DVD vs HDMI DVD vs Blueray HDMI. Component is best bluejean cables at 20'. HDMI is 3'. DVD player is Sony CX777ES megachanger. HDMI test using PS3.

Findings: I did not realize that the component signal would be so poor when compared to the HDMI tests. Everything seems a bit to unfocused as my pictures demonstrate. I have over 1200 movies in 4 CX777ES machines which use component only and I use a VideoStorm video switcher. Moving forward, I will expand with primarily BD. So, what to do with my current setup? I don't want to rip 1200+ movies. Any suggestions for improving the component quality? I felt I had the best I could do for component. Replacing the CX777 with the BD version at $700 each is an expensive option but that gets me HDMI. I would need a new video switcher so that's another $700 so I don't like that option. Anyway, I thought I would share these images and hopefully get some suggestions. Are my findings expected and typical?

I'd build a simple small HTPC then add a server with say 6 to 10 3TB drives. 6 drives would get those SD's ripped. Then you get to use something like SimHD in TMT to enhance your SD content and send it out via HDMI. $400 bucks for the HTPC, $2000 or less for the Server. Don't do it now though as 3TB drives are in short supply due to the Thailand flood. You would certainly free up a lot of space but as you noted, that is a lot of ripping.
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post #2105 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 02:32 PM
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Thanks, guys, for your answers.
Hope that my daughter won't be angry against me if i choose 2.35 screensize because most of the contents she likes will be viewed in 1.77 with black bars on each side.
The most reasonnable thing for me is to try the zoom of my unit. If it works properly, i'll go for 2.35. If it's not accurate enough then i'll stay in 1.77 and build horizontal black bars (even if the X30 gives very dark bars by its own).
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post #2106 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YummyCarp View Post

Another image showing test pattern output. I was wondering if the interesting patterns indicate a problem with the lens or if that is expected output. Of course the original test patterns don't look like that but are single pixel test patterns called Horizontal, vertical, even.


This looks like a Classic example of Down-conversion Motion Artifacts . What type of Signal are you feeding the PJ when you see those Patterns ? Can you select proper Pixel Mapping in the JVC , i.e. no scaling ?

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post #2107 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post

My experience is that's it's not related to setup. The first RS45 I received had really bad vertical streaking which could easily be see from my seating position. It was sent back defective. The second one has very little with the exact same setup and is a huge improvement.

Attachment 232021

I see the same thing on my old Proscan CRT but in the horizontal direction as that is how the Picture was "scanned" , left to right , top to bottom . But with a digital , progressive picture , aren't the full horizontal lines displayed top to bottom ? Might have something to do with the refresh rate of the PJ or differences in timing between the Source and Display .

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post #2108 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post

My experience is that's it's not related to setup. The first RS45 I received had really bad vertical streaking which could easily be see from my seating position. It was sent back defective. The second one has very little with the exact same setup and is a huge improvement.



So what is the "fix" for this streaking that is more noticeable on text? I see the same thing on my RS45 but it was while testing it on a wall in our dining room. I chalked it up as just the odd setup. But I tested it again with a screen sample and saw the same thing. Is everyone seeing this, or is it an oddity that justifies getting a replacement?
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post #2109 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 03:13 PM
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So I am sure this is going to start a religious war, but does anyone have any actual reasons why I would buy am Eye One vs. a Spyder to do my calibration for my RS-45? I am planning, for now at least, to use HCFR if that makes any difference.

Down the road I plan to, most likely, buy a Lumagen. At that time I will probably get one of the better calibration packages, like CHromaPure, but for now I think HCFR is free and will let me learn a little about calibrating before I drop more cash into it.
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post #2110 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kertofer View Post

So I am sure this is going to start a religious war, but does anyone have any actual reasons why I would buy am Eye One vs. a Spyder to do my calibration for my RS-45? I am planning, for now at least, to use HCFR if that makes any difference.

Down the road I plan to, most likely, buy a Lumagen. At that time I will probably get one of the better calibration packages, like CHromaPure, but for now I think HCFR is free and will let me learn a little about calibrating before I drop more cash into it.

the problem with buying an un-calibrated meter is just that, you have no reference of what is correct. So your charts might look good, but the reds could be off by 20% in the gray scale when actually looking at content.

I started with the inexpensive LT / HCFR but outgrew it in a week when I realized the results just weren't right.

Chromapure imo is a much easier way to learn to calibrate from scratch. It follows a specific work flow and the built in help is excellent and walks you through the steps.

I just calibrated an RS45 this past weekend, the gray scale on this particular model needed help and it looked fantastic when it was done correctly.
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post #2111 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

So what is the "fix" for this streaking that is more noticeable on text? I see the same thing on my RS45 but it was while testing it on a wall in our dining room. I chalked it up as just the odd setup. But I tested it again with a screen sample and saw the same thing. Is everyone seeing this, or is it an oddity that justifies getting a replacement?

Depends how far back you can see it from, if you can see it from even halfway from the screen to your seating distance, I'd say get a replacement for sure. Otherwise it's up to you, give your dealer a call and discuss it with them.

How visible the streaks are on a unit-to-unit basis appears to vary, on my unit I have trouble seeing them even with my nose to the screen, but my unit has the bright corners issue but also has very good convergence, so I guess I still have to live with 1 mild issue out of 3 potential ones. If I had to choose any of the 3 issues as being the least severe, I'd definitely pick the bright corners over convergence or overly visible streaky lines, so I guess in that sense I did ok.


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post #2112 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 04:11 PM
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It should be interesting to see the 3D version of Transformers on Jan 31st on the JVC.
I am hoping that Ghosting will not be an issue with this film but time will tell.
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post #2113 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Did you see this in the first few hours of using it?

I did see this in the first few hours (particularly during machine startup or quasi-calibration), but had seen posts here that this was previously documented and "normal" on both RS40s and the new rs45s, so i didn't think much about it until seeing all these recent posts.

Plus it really doesnt affect actual movies/tv at all since there is hardly ever just a stationary set of light text against dark backgrounds (except perhaps during the warnings signs pre-movies). I suppose if I ever use it for computer output that may start to be an issue...

I am going to test again tonight or tomorrow to see if lens shift has anything to do with it and will cross my fingers that, at least in my case, it is the factor.

Otherwise perhaps I will give AVS a call to see what my options are considering I am outside the 4 hour testing window. It would be sad to send this one back which has good convergence and focus and roll the dice (though probably very low odds given reports to date here) with getting a poor convergence machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

You should be testing your projector first and using it later.

This type of stuff is much easier to say by a person who has previously owned, tested, and calibrated a bunch (or even one) PJs in the past. For someone dipping their toes in with this PJ as their first ever, only after reading, watching, testing, etc do you get a sense of what is expected of these machiens vs what is mfg error. And in that case I would say 4 hours is no where near enough time - heck it took me personally an hour alone to shift, focus, check convergence, etc since those were the most basic things even a n00b might know to look for and so i spent a bunch of time looking at those (particularly convergence). something like white streaks that only come out when looking at certain content is not something a n00b may go straight to look for when this thing comes out of the box...
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post #2114 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 05:46 PM
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Anyone made a control4 serial driver for this projector? i`m trying to put it to work with no success until now...
I just need one example how must be done.. for example
Power on?
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post #2115 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post

This type of stuff is much easier to say by a person who has previously owned, tested, and calibrated a bunch (or even one) PJs in the past. For someone dipping their toes in with this PJ as their first ever, only after reading, watching, testing, etc do you get a sense of what is expected of these machiens vs what is mfg error. And in that case I would say 4 hours is no where near enough time - heck it took me personally an hour alone to shift, focus, check convergence, etc since those were the most basic things even a n00b might know to look for and so i spent a bunch of time looking at those (particularly convergence). something like white streaks that only come out when looking at certain content is not something a n00b may go straight to look for when this thing comes out of the box...

I agree, 4 hours is tough on a new guy using the projector, heck it wasn't even enough time for me to really test everything because I wasn't as familiar with the JVC as I was with some projectors. The JVC has a bit of convergence drift and uneven convergence (well really CA) on the screen which fooled even some of my test patterns at first, until I just absolutely forced myself to move the PJ around. It was weird, I have better CA now then the first day I used it from a different mounting position as well as some drift after it warms up.

So I hear you, it is tough, but you'll be fine, JVC will stand behind it if the issue is very visible.

Now if we base this on my unit, to me being able to see the streaks from any sitting position is way beyond the threshold of normal, unless enough others are weighing in and claiming they can also see it from that distance.


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post #2116 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 06:06 PM
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I can barely see it from my seating position (13 ft away). I can definitely see it mid-way... so maybe I need to talk to my dealer.... The good thing about my unit is it is plenty bright. THX normal is 700 lumens on LOW and 1130 on HIGH... (i have RS55, so it is quite a surprise to me). Convergence on my unit seems OK, just a bit off...
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post #2117 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 06:21 PM
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Let's try to get everyone else to weigh in before a bunch of people start sending them back, because there could be variances in screen setups and what not, I am sure I cannot see mine at all though. I don't remember seeing it on the HP screen and I don't remember seeing it on this white matte screen either. Would be great if everyone else can test.


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post #2118 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 06:34 PM
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I have no streaking at any distance on a uber bright 20 gain screen.
I commented on this in post 971
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post #2119 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 06:40 PM
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Hours dont have an impact on the streaking. My 40 showed the same thing at 10 hours and 540 hours.

Like I have mentioned, I have seen this streaking on 3 different machines so it is certainly not unusual.

From our discussions in the 40 thread last year, this is some sort of lens anamoly and is not unique to JVC.

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post #2120 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 06:48 PM
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Over the past week I watched Christmas Carol and The Lion King in 3D. A Christmas Carol looked very good in 3D with minor ghosting but unfortunately The Lion King showed a fair amount of ghosting. Enough to make me not really want to watch it in 3D.
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post #2121 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Like I have mentioned, I have seen this streaking on 3 different machines so it is certainly not unusual.

We are trying to figure out how much should be visible at what distance, it is not visible on mine unless I take a picture with a camera very close up or if I stick my nose to the screen. Some people are saying they can easily see it from seating distance, to me that sounds abnormal.


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post #2122 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Over the past week I watched Christmas Carol and The Lion King in 3D. A Christmas Carol looked very good in 3D with minor ghosting but unfortunately The Lion King showed a fair amount of ghosting. Enough to make me not really want to watch it in 3D.


I know how you feel! Once ghosting gets to a certain limit, it really dampens the experience.

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post #2123 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

We are trying to figure out how much should be visible at what distance, it is not visible on mine unless I take a picture with a camera very close up or if I stick my nose to the screen. Some people are saying they can easily see it from seating distance, to me that sounds abnormal.

I still believe setup can have an impact on the visibility of this issue so there are variables that will come into play making whatever we find out somewhat useless. If this truly is a lens issue, there could be enough variation from one lens to another to account for the different reports. Overall brightness can also be a factor.......just like ghosting, this streaking will be more noticeable with a brighter image.

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post #2124 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 07:05 PM
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Well we could say the same thing about everyone posting their opinions of what they see in this forum as invalid. Just trying to get a general idea here, as some have said the issue is serious.

Some are saying significant image degradation and very visible. Mine is not even close to visible from seating distance no matter how bright I turn the projector up, I just put it in high brightness mode in LAMP HIGH with the aperture at 0, it's still not visible unless I put my nose to the screen. I'm sure if the variance is on the lesser side of good it does become more visible with brightness.


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post #2125 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Over the past week I watched Christmas Carol and The Lion King in 3D. A Christmas Carol looked very good in 3D with minor ghosting but unfortunately The Lion King showed a fair amount of ghosting. Enough to make me not really want to watch it in 3D.

this is a tough movie in 3D on the RS45. I watched a few scenes on saturday and it was evident in a good portion of the scenes. Beauty and the Beast faired a bit better.
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post #2126 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 07:15 PM
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This seems to be another unit to unit variable type thing. Unless you have an extreme case, I would be hesitant to return for this since it does not seem to impact normal viewing and your replacement unit could have worse convergence, ghosting, etc.....all of which is worse (IMO) than some mild streaking on text.

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post #2127 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 07:15 PM
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I did not tell them to return it, I told them to call their dealer to inquire if it is bothering them or to get an exchange if it is very visible at half seating distance (that seems bad if it is blurring their image), nothing wrong with that IMHO. I mean 50% of this forum is about 3D ghosting in some image, but I am talking about a problem that may be affecting someone's ability to enjoy their projector in all content.

On another note
I know we can't mention prices here, but for anyone that wants a second projector to go with the JVC just for general use or gaming, 1500 lumens with 20ms lag (no 3d though), and great for bright content, check the Viewsonic Pro8200 thread as there are some specials right now. It makes an incredible complimentary projector to the RS-45, it fills in the rest of the weaknesses except 3D of course, but the 2D image besides black levels is spectacular for gaming.


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post #2128 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 07:23 PM
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Just trying to put some perspective on it. All 3 units I have seen had this streaking....it is far from unusual. I would agree that an extreme case like the picture shown recently in this thread is cause for concern.

Either way, you need to chill

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post #2129 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 07:39 PM
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I can say I have no streaking, No bright corners and convergence is vey good, I guess I got lucky, fingers crossed.
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post #2130 of 4489 Old 12-27-2011, 07:40 PM
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@Toe
Sorry I didn't mean to sound brash, accident actually. I really was just unsure why it sounded like you were telling everyone to live with it, but we have no idea how bad some of it really is. You are right, you are more experienced with more JVC's than me, you have owned other models I think, but I can only go from what I see in front of me, and I promise you there is no streaking unless I take a pic with a camera closeup, and even then it's very minor compared to some of these.

It's not just me either, several people seem to be reporting no streaking, and I know what it looks like because when I put my nose to the screen I can see it.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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