JVC 2011-2012 lamp measurement project - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 391 Old 03-02-2012, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I guess you have a decade up on me. I only got my EE degree 41 years ago and starting working as an engineer after another couple of years in graduate school.

We've got a lot in common. I worked as an electrical technician while getting my BSEE degree, then got my MSEE and started working as a member of technical staff in exploratory development at Bell Telephone Labs back in the early '60's. Lots of water over the dam since then, but my hobbies keep me busy these days in retirement.

Sorry for the off-topic posts as I don't mean to intrude into the interesting thread topic of tracking the lamp dimming of JVC projectors.

Bob
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post #272 of 391 Old 03-09-2012, 11:17 AM
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Three month reading


1. 7th Mar-12
2. X30
3. Calibration disc
4. 40 hours
5. 75% Normal
6. Normal
7. Zero
8. 60 min
9. 738 (± 8; n=4) peak lumens (measurements taken around centre screen region)

10. 85 screen
11. Throw distance 3.5m
12. Meter used: LX1330B
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post #273 of 391 Old 03-10-2012, 05:29 PM
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I had an opportunity to test the accuray of my LX1330B lux meter against another LX1330B owned by another AVS forum member. His meter measured about 10% higher lux than my meter. So it appears there can be be some moderated unit to unit variation in their lux reading. Last year when I first received my LX1330B I tested it against a fairly expensive meter and the results where within 5% which I considered good for such a low priced alternative. In any case these meters are still more than adequate for tracking changes in lux as your projector's lamp ages. Just take the absolute calculation of your projector's lumens as being approximate when comparing it to the results posted by other forum members, even those using the same make and model of lux meter.

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post #274 of 391 Old 03-11-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by msamblanet View Post

12/16 12h 325 lux [baseline - 100%]
1/10 104h 270 lux [83% of baseline]
2/9 188h 273 lux [84% of baseline]

3/11 265h 305lux [94% of baseline]

When I looked at this compared to my prior numbers, I scratched my head and re-measured 3 times...I got 303, 305, and 307 for the readings...I kept the 305 as an average of the 3...

I double checked settings and I have no explanation of why the brightness increased this much since the last reading...

I am testing in the factory natural settings (which I do not calibrate), I do not make any adjustments in service mode, and I am using the service mode test pattern so that my Lumagen does not influence the image. No light leakage in the room that could account for 30 lumens...

My personal current guess is that the brightness has been stable for the last couple months at least and variations are natural variations in the meter and/or projector. This guess is subject to change without notice
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post #275 of 391 Old 03-11-2012, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msamblanet View Post

I double checked settings and I have no explanation of why the brightness increased this much since the last reading...

Was the light meter right up against the screen when you made the measurement? Is there any chance the projector was a little closer to the screen this time, or the zoom was slightly different this time?

It only takes a few inches closer to the projector (or equivalent zoom difference) to make a noticeable difference in the reading.
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post #276 of 391 Old 03-11-2012, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post


Was the light meter right up against the screen when you made the measurement? Is there any chance the projector was a little closer to the screen this time, or the zoom was slightly different this time?

It only takes a few inches closer to the projector (or equivalent zoom difference) to make a noticeable difference in the reading.

Projector is bolted down on channel struts so it has not been moved. Same zoom also.

I always take the reading myself with my hand just barely off the screen.

I also leave the aperture wide open so that should not be it either.

I'll take a few more measurements over the next week and see what I get...
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post #277 of 391 Old 03-11-2012, 03:35 PM
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JVC projectors seem to have slight voltage regulation issues with the bulb in high mode. I have noticed this in the last range and the current ones. If your projector has been on for about 20 minutes in low bulb, and then you switch to high and take a reading....it will be about 6-7% higher than if you then take a reading after 2 hours of continuous high bulb mode usage. So it is important that you always take the reading after the same amount of on-time at that specific bulb level.
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post #278 of 391 Old 03-12-2012, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

My reading with 7 hours on my RS55 is 1050 lumens on the THX mode, which is the best viewing I can do in high mode. Basically the highest setting that I can watch. I prefer 14-15fL to watch blu rays, which I can get in normal mode with the aperture at -10 that gives me 435 lumens.

Just calibrated my RS55 with an i1pro. Picture looks great. Finally got it to were I want it to be. Ok, so my new measurements on my 100in 16:9 SI gamma 4K screen at mid throw with 145 on the bulb

Normal lamp open with 238 lux and 654 lumens
with it closed 88 lux at 242 lumens

High lamp open at 347 lux and 954 lumens.

I watch blu rays with the iris at -12 and it gives me 350 lumens for 13ftL. Which is good for me.

So max lumens was 1050 at 7 hours and calibrated at 145 hours is 954
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post #279 of 391 Old 03-12-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msamblanet View Post

I double checked settings and I have no explanation of why the brightness increased this much since the last reading...

It doesn't seem to be all that unusual for things like this to happen. Just keep tracking it over time to see the trend. Individual readings may blip high or low occasionally, doesn't seem to be a big deal.

Could be lots of different things, issues with the meter, differences in warm-up time, something changed slightly in the arc pattern within the bulb... etc.
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post #280 of 391 Old 03-15-2012, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msamblanet View Post

I double checked settings and I have no explanation of why the brightness increased this much since the last reading...

The previous times you took a reading (with the lower readings), had you been running the PJ in "high lamp" (or 3D) mode before you changed to low lamp and took the reading?

I had previously posted that I found that if the projector is run in "high lamp" then switched back to "normal", the light level drops off. Do it again and it drops off further. Only shutting down, cooling off, and turning it back on again restores "normal" lamp to it's full potential.

Just a thought...

Paul
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post #281 of 391 Old 03-15-2012, 11:26 PM
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My second measurement (on my 2nd projector):

31 hours. Same settings as on my first (2/12/12) measurement. New reading: Lux: 144. For all intents and purposes, no change.


I have my 3rd RS-55 coming as this one has some odd bright dots (which AVS supposes are slightly misaligned micromirrors of some sort). Boy, am I glad I bought from AVS because they have been 100% on top of things and are making sure I am satisfied.

Jim,

Since I'll be essentially starting from scratch, how do you want to deal with this? Delete my measurements and start from scratch with me when I get the new one mounted? Or pull me out of the data since I'll be so late to the party? Let me know. I'm happy to keep reporting...

Paul
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post #282 of 391 Old 03-18-2012, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkarmouche View Post

The previous times you took a reading (with the lower readings), had you been running the PJ in "high lamp" (or 3D) mode before you changed to low lamp and took the reading?

I cannot remember with 100% certainty - the most recent reading had no high lamp reading near it...the previous one might have because I had just gotten my replacement monster 3d emitter so it is possible I might have been testing it.

I have taken 2 more readings - all in the same ballpark (one was even higher!) - I have not used high this month at all, so that is not an impact in the current readings although it is possible it impacted past ones.

Perhaps I'll use high mode for a bit later today and re-measure when I come out of it...see what ballpark this puts me in.
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post #283 of 391 Old 03-18-2012, 02:59 PM
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1) Date: 2012-3-17 date of measurement
2) Model: RS45
3) Source of white field: w6rz
4) 264 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp used almost exclusively
6) Normal lamp during measurement (Cinema picture mode after a reset)
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 120-min warm-up before measurement
9) 625 lumens measured (9-point technique, LX1010B meter)
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post #284 of 391 Old 03-18-2012, 03:12 PM
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^^^
Considering that my previous measurement 62 hours ago (at 202 hrs) showed 634 lumens, I'm hoping that things have stabilized (my first reading at 7hrs gave 748 lumens!!).
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post #285 of 391 Old 03-22-2012, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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1) 2012-03-19 date of measurement
2) RS45
3) service menu (source of 100IRE screen)
4) 412 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp used almost exclusively (99%)
6) Normal lamp during measurement
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 30min warm-up before measurement
9) 648 lumens measured (9-point technique, LX1010B meter)

All of my measurements, in order: 767, 695, 655, 648, 648

So the lamp looks to be stabilizing at about 84% of its initial brightness. I'm reasonably pleased with that, assuming it does not drop a lot more during the next 1000 hours.
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post #286 of 391 Old 03-26-2012, 04:11 PM
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A few weeks ago I noticed a different moderately low priced lux meter being sold on eBay and Amazon. It appears the same meter is being sold under several brand names and there are two versions available. One has a USB port and PC software (not compable with Win7 x64 however) for recording and creating graphs and the other version lacks the USB port. I just today received the model (under the Pyle brand name) without the USB report can can report that it appears to be a somewhat higher quality unit than the less expensive LX1330B used by many here on AVS (I also own one of those). The new one I purchased was sold by Amazon but is now listed as out of stock on the Amazon web site. The prices vary a lot depending on where you purchase one of these and the specific brand name printed on it. Below are a few example of these meters: (web link to Amazon or eBay):

Pyle meter w/o USB at Amazon - HERE

Extech LT300 meter w/o USB at Amazon (200K max. lux vs. 400K for Pyle but otherwise appears to be the same meter) - HERE

Brand-X w/USB port on eBay - HERE


Brand-X w/o USB port on eBay - HERE

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post #287 of 391 Old 03-26-2012, 07:46 PM
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Ron,
What makes you say these meters are much better than the lower priced meter? Do you believe the one you bought has been worth the extra $75 over the other one?
Thanks

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post #288 of 391 Old 03-27-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Ron,
What makes you say these meters are much better than the lower priced meter? Do you believe the one you bought has been worth the extra $75 over the other one?
Thanks

What I said was they seem "somewhat higher quality" and the regular price for the Pyle meter at Amazon (when they had it in stock) was $79. I managed to pick up an open box unit for $55 (the meter appeared new and came in the original box with the case and manuals). Overall the meter has the look and feel of being somewhat higher quality and it has a few extra features. In direct comparison with my LX1330B the readings are within about 2%. I did recently test my LX1330B against another LX1330B owned by another AVS forum member and his meter read 10% to 12% higher lumens than mine, so there seems there can be some significant unit-to-unit variation with the LX1330B. That raised my concerns about such low cost meters. About a year ago when I got my LX1330B I had the opportunity to compare its readings against a couple of more expensive meters and it appeared to be fairly accurate (within 5%). Perhaps my friend's LX1330B is a rare example, and in any case either his or my LX1330B are adequate for tracking projector lamp dimming over time, but may not be accurate enough to compare one user's posted lux/lumens measurements against those of another user. Since I only have one sample of the 'new' Pyle meter I cannot say if it subject to less unit-to-unit variations than the less expensive LX1330B or not. The intent of my post was to point out there is another 'family' of moderate priced (but not really low cost) lux meters out there that can be considered.

You can download the manual for the Pyle PLMT68 - HERE

Some features that make that may make this meter more attractive, as compared to the LX1330B, for some users are:

1. A resolution of 0.01 lux (in the lowest range setting) could be useful for the measurement of black level (and contrast ratio)

2. Display has a backlight that can be turned on

3. Both a lux digital readout and a bar graph are displayed and the bar graph has a high update rate

4. Meter has a tripod socket

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post #289 of 391 Old 03-27-2012, 10:42 AM
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Thanks for the feedback. At the price you got yours, it may be a better alternative.

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post #290 of 391 Old 04-07-2012, 09:39 AM
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Third projector arrived. Jim, please remove the data from my old projector.


1) 2012-04-06 date of measurement
2) RS55
3) service menu
4) 11 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp 100%
6) Normal lamp during measurement
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 120min warm-up before measurement
9) 115 LUX measured (center, highest point, LX1010B meter)

Lamp Mode : normal
Lens Aperture Setting : 0
Lens Memory and Zoom Setting : 16:9
Masking : None
Picture Mode : Natural / Video / 6500
2D Mode
Calibration: Gamma, Color Temp., Color Space, Contrast, Brightness: Normal, 0,0,0,0


Screen : 113 x 63 (throw distance 16')
Lux : 115
Lumens : 523

This new projector is dimmer than the previous one. The previous one had a defect where I could see little blue/white dots on black scenes, but it produced 642 lumens, almost 20% brighter. I did have both projectors for a few days - so I tried swapping the bulbs - but the LUX readings from the projectors were UNCHANGED (both projectors produced the same result with either bulb). Possibly it is caused by differences in OOTB calibration (I did not calibrate either projector, however all settings were identical)?

Paul
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post #291 of 391 Old 04-07-2012, 03:07 PM
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My Lux readings Replaced X90 Batcave.

iris open
standard/6500k/normal/other settings 0/
126"diag 1.2gain 2:35/16:9 screen/13`7" throw
Service menu white pattern
60 mins warm up
Center screen readings

Low/High lamp
106 hours
207/340 16:9 87" wide
124/208 2:35 117" wide
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post #292 of 391 Old 04-09-2012, 01:21 AM
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Four month reading- no real change. My light use continues so I'm afraid I'm not contributing much to the the project


1. 7th April-12
2. X30
3. Calibration disc
4. 54 hours
5. 80% Normal
6. Normal
7. Zero
8. 60 min
9. 732 (± 1; n=5) peak lumens (measurements taken around centre screen region)

10. 85 screen
11. Throw distance 3.5m
12. Meter used: LX1330B
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post #293 of 391 Old 04-17-2012, 10:02 AM
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Does your meter come with a NIST calibration
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post #294 of 391 Old 04-18-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlang46 View Post

Does your meter come with a NIST calibration

None of the low cost meters have NIST calibration/certification and their lux readings should not be assumed to be any better than 10% (or perhaps even 20%) of the absolute true value. However, relative readings taken with the same meter on the same projector/lamp over time should be valid for tracking the dimming of the lamp, especially when we are talking about lamps dimming 20% in the first couple of hundred hours and 50% (or more) over their useful lifetime.

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post #295 of 391 Old 04-18-2012, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

None of the low cost meters have NIST calibration/certification and their lux readings should not be assumed to be any better than 10% (or perhaps even 20%) of the absolute true value. However, relative readings taken with the same meter on the same projector/lamp over time should be valid for tracking the dimming of the lamp, especially when we are talking about lamps dimming 20% in the first couple of hundred hours and 50% (or more) over their useful lifetime.

To some degree I am sure the readings are valid as you noted more so in the first 50%, once it gets too dark though the linearity issues will arise with these cheap light meters. That should not be too big of a deal, plus our eyes can see some brightness changes.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

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post #296 of 391 Old 04-18-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

None of the low cost meters have NIST calibration/certification and their lux readings should not be assumed to be any better than 10% (or perhaps even 20%) of the absolute true value. However, relative readings taken with the same meter on the same projector/lamp over time should be valid for tracking the dimming of the lamp, especially when we are talking about lamps dimming 20% in the first couple of hundred hours and 50% (or more) over their useful lifetime.

Exactly. For the purposes of this test, accuracy of the meter doesn't really matter as long as it is reading fairly consistently. A low cost meter should be plenty for tracking the relative change in lux on a single projector.
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post #297 of 391 Old 04-23-2012, 06:49 PM
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1) Date: 2012-4-23 date of measurement
2) Model: RS45
3) Source of white field: w6rz
4) 304 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp used almost exclusively
6) Normal lamp during measurement (Cinema picture mode after a reset)
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 120-min warm-up before measurement
9) 532lumens measured (9-point technique, LX1010B meter)

After 60-min warmup, I measured 513 lumens. In any case, I think this is my worst drop losing 100 lumens in approximately 40 hrs!!
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post #298 of 391 Old 04-25-2012, 10:18 AM
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My Lux readings Replaced X90 Batcave.

iris open
standard/6500k/normal/other settings 0/
126"diag 1.2gain 2:35/16:9 screen/13`7" throw
Service menu white pattern
60 mins warm up
Center screen readings

Low/High lamp
106 hours
207/340 Lux 16:9 87" wide
124/208 Lux 2:35 117" wide

158 hours
207/325 Lux16:9 87" wide
124/197 Lux 2:35 117" wide
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post #299 of 391 Old 05-08-2012, 05:48 AM
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My 3rd measurement (late submission):

1. 1st April 2012
2. X30-WE
3. Lumagen Mini 3D, smallest 100 IRE window pattern
4. Lamp 201 hours
5. 99% Normal
6. Normal / High
7. Iris zero
8. Warm-up 5 hours
9. 502 / 799 lumens

Other info:

10. 110" screen
11. Throw distance 4.1 meters
12. Standard gamut, Natural mode, 6500K, Normal gamma, Contrast and Brightness at zero (OOTB)
13. Minolta 10-T meter
14. Last reading: 568 / 903 lumens @ 53h, i.e. a 12% drop in 148h

Calibrated lumens are much lower, so low I gave up on it even after 50 hours. The 6000K preset is still closest to D65, at least in the higher IREs (tracking is off in the sense that the colour temp becomes warmer (more red) towards lower IREs).
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post #300 of 391 Old 05-08-2012, 06:17 AM
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My 4th and final (see below) measurement:

1. 7th May 2012
2. X30-WE
3. Lumagen Mini 3D, smallest 100 IRE window pattern
4. Lamp 297 hours
5. 99.5% Normal
6. Normal / High
7. Iris zero
8. Warm-up 3 hours
9. 424 / 658 lumens

Other info:

10. 110" screen
11. Throw distance 4.1 meters
12. Standard gamut, Natural mode, 6500K, Normal gamma, Contrast and Brightness at zero (OOTB)
13. Minolta 10-T meter
14. Last reading: 502 / 799 lumens @ 201h, i.e. a 17% drop in 96h

This will be my last measurement of this particular lamp since I will be changing it for a new one later this week. I will continue to participate in the project with the new lamp.

The main takeaway from having measured the original lamp is that its brightness dropped by approximately 45% in the first 300 hours.
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