JVC 2011-2012 lamp measurement project - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 391 Old 05-08-2012, 11:08 AM
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I saw in the X70 thread that there's a new lamp design with an added cooling fin. Is anybody who is measuring lamps for this project measuring one of those?

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post #302 of 391 Old 05-13-2012, 07:55 AM
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5th reading. No significant change


1. 7th May-12
2. X30
3. Calibration disc
4. 70 hours
5. 95% Normal
6. Normal
7. Zero
8. 60 min
9. 742 (± 2; n=5) peak lumens (measurements taken around centre screen region)

10. 85 screen
11. Throw distance 3.5m
12. Meter used: LX1330B
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post #303 of 391 Old 06-06-2012, 12:49 PM
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Would be definitly worthy to take the following variables in your data:
- bulb serie (rev. 1: QLL0194-001, rev. 2: QLL0194-002, rev. 3: QLL0194-003)
- housing serie (rev. 1: plastic flow tunnel, rev. 2: metal flow tunnel)
- high altitude mode (on, off)
- room temperature
- rooom climate control (yes, no)
- and maybe some coding ratio's for lamp mode use (normal, high)
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post #304 of 391 Old 06-09-2012, 04:53 PM
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12/16 12h 325 lux [baseline - 100%]
1/10 104h 270 lux [83% of baseline]
2/9 188h 273 lux [84% of baseline]
3/11 265h 305lux [94% of baseline]
6/9 423h 274lux [84% of baseline[

Sorry for not reporting for awhile...but I'd say the bulb is stable for me. Still not clear why the 3/11 number was so much higher although I did just replace a dead battery in my meter - perhaps it was low and causing issues...not sure...

At this point I'd say it is stable & I am still happy with the brightness - and my room is not a bat-cave...

- M
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post #305 of 391 Old 06-11-2012, 09:00 AM
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Warmup times as well as switching back and forth between normal and high can cause odd variations in the output like that. I wouldn't worry too much about an occasional blip in the reading. It's more the trend over time that matters.
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post #306 of 391 Old 06-12-2012, 11:18 AM
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6th reading. No significant change


1. 7th June-12
2. X30
3. Calibration disc
4. 90 hours
5. 95% Normal
6. Normal
7. Zero
8. 60 min
9. 746 (± 7; n=5) peak lumens (measurements taken around centre screen region)

10. 85 screen
11. Throw distance 3.5m
12. Meter used: LX1330B
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post #307 of 391 Old 06-12-2012, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Solid View Post

With all this talk about lamps dimming at a much faster then normal rate... Bottom line...

Would this issue with the current generations lamps steer you in a different direction then JVC if you could do it over again?

I personally have the JVC DLA-HD1 (RS1) and have been very happy with the lamp life and lumens on my projector. I know that the problem seems to have started in the last years models and continued on to this years. I was looking into upgrading my HD1 to a DLA X30 but this could be a solid reason to perhaps wait till next years models. Thoughts?

I didn't see anyone respond, so I figured I might as well chime in. Knowing what I know, would I by my RS40 again? That would be a big fat NO. I'd have kept my RS20 in a heartbeat. Why? Keep reading...

It's too early to tell if the new (003) lamps are any better than the earlier incantations provided by JVC. I distinctly recall hearing that the last lamp model (002) would resolve the problems and that's not the case. If it was, there wouldn't be a need for a newer model (with flaps - woohoo). My own RS40 experience was a dimming and then exploding original bulb (001) at under 400 hours, followed by a dimming 002 lamp at 350 hours, which JVC also replaced. I give them credit for at least placating us with replacement bulbs. Perhaps the 003 will be the answer, but I doubt it. Why? Because the RS40/50/60/45/55/65 projectors are a different design from the previous models. And while some have said that JVC has always had lamp dimming issues, I never noticed that with my Pioneer PRO-FPJ1 (RS2 clone) and RS20. Both were excellent projectors. IMHO, there's something inherently wrong in the design of the new generation JVCs (cooling, airflow, etc.) coupled with these lamps that causes dimming and failure. They're supposed to last up to 2000 hour. Good luck with that. I know of previous JVC owners that reach that number. I'm still waiting for anyone to hit 1000 on these new lamps and be happy with the output. It seems to me that shelling out over $400 for a lamp that's had a questionable heritage is going to be very difficult.

In a nutshell, I'd wait or look elsewhere.

...Steve
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post #308 of 391 Old 06-13-2012, 07:37 AM
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It does seem that JVC has backed up their product by resolving premature lamp failure issues. Since that is the case I think one should still consider purchasing their projectors. It is true that it is too soon to know if the version 3 of the lamp will resolve the failure issues but as long as JVC supports its customers I don't see any problem. I would hate to give up the picture quality of these projectors. I should also point out that not everyone has had lamp issues. We always hear from people with problems on this forum.
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post #309 of 391 Old 06-13-2012, 08:45 PM
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My last measurement results are below. Doesn't look good.


1) Date: 2012-6-13 date of measurement
2) Model: RS45
3) Source of white field: w6rz
4) 369 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp used almost exclusively
6) Normal lamp during measurement (Cinema picture mode after a reset)
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 60-min warm-up before measurement
9) 445 lumens measured (9-point technique, LX1010B meter)


Considering that my first measurement (at 7hrs) showed 748 lumens, that is a 40% drop in approx. 360 hrs. Is it time to call JVC? I'm definitely outside the bulb warranty period.
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post #310 of 391 Old 06-15-2012, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouradb View Post

My last measurement results are below. Doesn't look good.

6) Normal lamp during measurement (Cinema picture mode after a reset)

that is a 40% drop in approx. 360 hrs. Is it time to call JVC? I'm definitely outside the bulb warranty period.

Did the projector run in "high lamp" mode for even a minute for the hour or so before your measurement? As I posted earlier, this can cause significatly lower readings in "normal" lamp mode until the projector has been powered off, cooled down, and re-started. After doing a "reset" (as you did in step 6) - some modes will force "high lamp" until you change it back. Cycling through the picture modes can cause this to happen. Just a thought, and possible reason to re-test.

If the bulb has dimmed that much, call JVC. It seems a lot of people are getting bulb replacements out of warranty - and getting an improved version that appears to improve airflow/cooling of the bulb.

Paul
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post #311 of 391 Old 06-15-2012, 07:22 PM
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Are you serious? So basically everytime I watch a 3D movie (or short 3D clip to show a friend), then we watch a 2D feature in normal / low lamp cinema mode, I have to turn the projector off and let it cool down or I risk not getting the most lumens possible out of my bulb? I bet that puts more wear and tear on the bulb to heat cycle it like that....
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post #312 of 391 Old 06-15-2012, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkarmouche View Post

Did the projector run in "high lamp" mode for even a minute for the hour or so before your measurement? As I posted earlier, this can cause significatly lower readings in "normal" lamp mode until the projector has been powered off, cooled down, and re-started. After doing a "reset" (as you did in step 6) - some modes will force "high lamp" until you change it back. Cycling through the picture modes can cause this to happen. Just a thought, and possible reason to re-test.
If the bulb has dimmed that much, call JVC. It seems a lot of people are getting bulb replacements out of warranty - and getting an improved version that appears to improve airflow/cooling of the bulb.
Paul

Not that I know of. Overall, I don't use the Cinema mode (I have User2 as the mode I calibrated and use all the time). The cinema mode is on the default settings anyway and me doing a reset before calibration is just to make sure I am consistent across all the measurements I've done before. If the projector is shifting to 'high lamp" on by itself, that is news to me.
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post #313 of 391 Old 06-15-2012, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vullcan View Post

I have to turn the projector off and let it cool down or I risk not getting the most lumens possible out of my bulb?

No. Honestly I don't think the difference is enough to require cooling down and restarting. Few of us are that sensitive to discern a 50-100 lumen drop unless it's side by side or an A-B test. But for the purpose of measuring your bulb, this appears to be something to consider. I have measured three different RS-55's - and they all exhibited this behaviour.

Try it: Next time you start up "cold" (in "normal" lamp mode), check it with your light meter. Then change to "high lamp" mode (let it stabilize a couple of minutes). Then change back to "normal" lamp mode and re-check the brightness. What is really interesting is, if you immediately repeat the procedure (without cooling down first) - the "normal lamp" brightness is even lower again.


Paul
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post #314 of 391 Old 06-17-2012, 06:48 PM
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My RS-45 does not exhibit that symptom.
It was the same when I tried it, I started in low power mode, then went into high power mode, then low, I got the same measurements regardless of switching order or BEFORE/AFTER.


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post #315 of 391 Old 06-18-2012, 08:21 AM
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I have a idea for JVC, Get a White LED that can output 2000 lumen and modify these Projectors to use them, These projectors now will last 20,000 hours.

I would fork over 500$ for a LED replacement. I am sure many would.
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post #316 of 391 Old 06-20-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

I have a idea for JVC, Get a White LED that can output 2000 lumen and modify these Projectors to use them, These projectors now will last 20,000 hours.
I would fork over 500$ for a LED replacement. I am sure many would.

I'd settle for a 1200 LED solution that retrofits into the existing JVC housing (but 2000 is better). Fading/failing lamps are a serious issue and the high prices listed for a JVC replacement lamp does not instill any warm fuzzy feelings... ..

I believe that Red will have their 4K Laser PJ ready before JVC comes out with LED.

EDIT: I sold my RS40 last week as the Epson 6010 made it expendable. No need for two projectors as the 2D is nearly as good and the 3D much better. No more lamp worries either. Have fun beta-testing the JVC lamps.

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post #317 of 391 Old 06-20-2012, 02:15 PM
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Well, the high output LED's used in the high end Vivitek LED DLP (and others?) needed liquid cooling of the LED engines (diodes I guess). Blowing air over them wasn't effective enough it seems. Makes sense considering how there's much less surface area vs a large incandescent lamp.

So it doesn't seem like there's a simple solution....yet.
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post #318 of 391 Old 06-20-2012, 04:52 PM
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While it is pretty niche, myself and I'm sure several others on this forum watercool our computer processors so we are no stranger to liquid cooling. If such a light source existed and was reliable as long as it was cooled I would gladly hack apart the bulb door to install inlet and outlet valves. I would even go to the length of custom CNC milling a waterblock to fit over the diode.

We can dream right?
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post #319 of 391 Old 06-22-2012, 01:54 PM
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Here is my second measurement on this new unit. It's been slow adding hours as I had to ceiling mount it after doing some work on my wall panels (didn't want it in the room while I was creating dust).

1) June 22, 2012 date of measurement
2) RS55
3) service menu
4) 31 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp 100%
6) Normal lamp during measurement
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 120min warm-up before measurement
9) 129 LUX measured (center, highest point, LX1010B meter)


Lens Memory and Zoom Setting : 16:9
Masking : None
Picture Mode : Natural / Video / 6500
Calibration: Gamma NORMAL, Contrast +4, Brightness -1, Dark level +3, Bright level 0, Color 0, Tint 0. MPC 2.

Screen : 113 x 63 (throw distance 16', area 49.4025 sq. ft.)
Lux : 129
Lumens : 592


Jim, maybe you should restart my data since my unit is now ceiling mounted and "calibrated". I expect I can settle in and do some movie watching now, so I might finally start producing some actually usable data for you (I will always test with these settings in future).

Paul
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post #320 of 391 Old 07-15-2012, 06:32 PM
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12/16 12h 325 lux [baseline - 100%]
1/10 104h 270 lux [83% of baseline]
2/9 188h 273 lux [84% of baseline]
3/11 265h 305 lux [94% of baseline]
6/9 423h 274 lux [84% of baseline]
7/15 496h 212 lux [65% of baseline]
Note: about 7/7, screen size was tweaked slightly (same physical screen - enlarged image very slightly to better cover corners w/ the a-lens)

While this measure saw a drop, I do not notice it being dimmer watching the computer or movies.

Given the previous odd reading (3/11) I am not 100% confident in this meter...we'll see how the next reading goes...

- Mike
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post #321 of 391 Old 07-15-2012, 07:57 PM
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What's the most hours anyone has on one of the newest "finned" or "flapped" lamps? Anyone up to 800-1,000 hours yet? Can't tell from some of these reports on this page if they're those type lamps or the earlier sucky 1st 2 versions. Was really hoping to hear this was no longer an issue with this last version.
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post #322 of 391 Old 07-21-2012, 08:20 AM
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Latest lamp measurement:

1) Date: 2012-7-20
2) Model: RS45
3) Source of white field: w6rz
4) 390 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp used almost exclusively
6) Normal lamp during measurement (Cinema picture mode after a reset)
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 60-min warm-up before measurement
9) 439 lumens measured (9-point technique, LX1010B meter)

Not much drop since last month (it was 445 last month), but that's no consolation since I haven't used the projector much this month (20 hrs only). Started seeing the difference (first measurement was 748 lumens).

Will be calling JVC Monday. Hopefully I will "qualify" for a free bulb replacement even though my bulb is 7 months old.
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post #323 of 391 Old 07-23-2012, 02:15 PM
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Third measurement:

1) July 23, 2012 date of measurement
2) RS55
3) service menu
4) 71 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp 100%
6) Normal lamp during measurement
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 120min warm-up before measurement
9) 120 LUX measured (center, highest point, LX1010B meter)


Lens Memory and Zoom Setting : 16:9
Masking : None
Picture Mode : Natural / Video / 6500
Calibration: Gamma NORMAL, Contrast +4, Brightness -1, Dark level +3, Bright level 0, Color 0, Tint 0. MPC 2.

Screen : 113 x 63 (throw distance 16', area 49.4025 sq. ft.)
Lux : 120
Lumens : 551



Paul
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post #324 of 391 Old 07-30-2012, 12:13 AM
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By the way (and for the record), my unit has the new -003 lamp with the little flapper.

Paul
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post #325 of 391 Old 08-01-2012, 10:15 PM
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Not part of the official project but thought I'd add my findings.

My original lamp for my RS-50 lasted about 800 hours, at which point is was too dim to use.

My new lamp, an 003 series (with the flapper), has never seen high lamp mode, never been on for longer than 3 hours, and is used at low elevation.

My first 54 hours have been:



Color me extremely worried, as the recent trend to loose a few lux every few hours is the same as when my original bulb died.

At very minimum seeing this drop short of 100 hours is...worrisome, and is no doubt the same pattern my original bulb followed when new. I will continue to monitor and report my findings.

As a quick aside it's a pain because at 205 Lux this projector is simply *stunning*; why do these lamps have to be such a pain confused.gif
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post #326 of 391 Old 08-20-2012, 12:17 PM
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Fourth measurement:

1) August 19, 2012 date of measurement
2) RS55
3) service menu
4) 95 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp 100%
6) Normal lamp during measurement
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 120min warm-up before measurement
9) 120 LUX measured (center, highest point, LX1010B meter)


Lens Memory and Zoom Setting : 16:9
Masking : None
Picture Mode : Natural / Video / 6500
Calibration: Gamma NORMAL, Contrast +4, Brightness -1, Dark level +3, Bright level 0, Color 0, Tint 0. MPC 2.

Screen : 113 x 63 (throw distance 16', area 49.4025 sq. ft.)
Lux : 116
Lumens : 532
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post #327 of 391 Old 08-21-2012, 02:19 AM
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Am I correct that there is no consensus as to whether the bulb on the the X30 is any better or worse?

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post #328 of 391 Old 08-21-2012, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breadvan View Post

Am I correct that there is no consensus as to whether the bulb on the the X30 is any better or worse?

I do not think anyone has put enough hours on the newer bulb yet to see if the issues have been fixed. I know JVC has been good about lamp replacement but I can only imagine that lasting only a little while longer if the new line has major design changes. I just bought a X3 (RS-40) and the image is amazing and bright but I have less than 20 hours on it. I only avarage 500-600 hrs a year if that.

It is a little surprising that 3 1/2 lamp revisions later we still dont know if the issues have been fixed. If not I am leaning more towards a design flaw somewhere in the unit itself and maybe not the lamp.
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post #329 of 391 Old 08-21-2012, 05:54 AM
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From my understanding anyone coming forward now, the tech are telling them that this is there last bulb they are getting for free.

Until I know if these flap bulbs are better, I will not be purchasing there over priced bulbs.
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post #330 of 391 Old 08-21-2012, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphinc View Post

I do not think anyone has put enough hours on the newer bulb yet to see if the issues have been fixed. I know JVC has been good about lamp replacement but I can only imagine that lasting only a little while longer if the new line has major design changes. I just bought a X3 (RS-40) and the image is amazing and bright but I have less than 20 hours on it. I only avarage 500-600 hrs a year if that.
It is a little surprising that 3 1/2 lamp revisions later we still dont know if the issues have been fixed. If not I am leaning more towards a design flaw somewhere in the unit itself and maybe not the lamp.

You mention 3 1/2 versions. I have Ver 3. What changes are there in Ver 3.5?

Jack
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