Official JVC RS65/X90 Owners Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 151 Old 03-22-2012, 12:48 PM
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My blu-ray is a Mcintosh MVP 881 (Based on the Marantz UD9001). I also have an Oppo-BDP-95 that shows the same problems. The HDMI cable is the same one used with the Marantz. I still have the Marantz and shows no problem what so ever.
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post #62 of 151 Old 03-22-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kal View Post

Just to be clear: You're seeing this on test patterns from digital sources like the AVS709 or Digital Video Essentials test discs right? Not on actual movie (film based content). Kal

Yes, and also on the test patterns from the projector itself in the service menu. I also see the artifacts on many blu ray dics: Transformers 3, I-Robot, to name a few.

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You've got the projector connected via HDMI correct?Kal


Yes. Transparent Premium HDMI cable 15FT
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post #63 of 151 Old 03-22-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigimonagas View Post

My blu-ray is a Mcintosh MVP 881 (Based on the Marantz UD9001). I also have an Oppo-BDP-95 that shows the same problems. The HDMI cable is the same one used with the Marantz. I still have the Marantz and shows no problem what so ever.

I dont have any of these problems with my 65 and 95
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post #64 of 151 Old 03-22-2012, 01:10 PM
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Very strange that you're able to make it go away by turning on DNR in the source but that you see the same sort of thing in the internal test patterns too. I'm at a loss to explain this.

Kal
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post #65 of 151 Old 03-22-2012, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigimonagas View Post

Hi everyone,

I recently installed a brand new RS-65 in my theater replacing a Marantz VP-11S2. First off, the RS-65 is far better than the Marantz in every department except for image noise. Even after 120 hours on the bulb, the RS-65 shows incredible amount of grain/noise in bright images; no problem with dark material.

The unit is calibrated to Rec. 709 D65 with amazing color accuracy. I noticed when calibrating the unit that on low test patters (20% - 30% - 40%) the whites shows distracting artifacts. I really don't know if this is a normal thing on D-ILA projectors since coming from a high end DLP. I've tried every color mode, MPC level, sharpness and noise reduction set to 0, to no avail. The only thing that works is applying DNR in my blu-ray player, but that kills the naturalness of the image.

Any advice on this issue?

Current set-up:

Perfectly light control room

Screen - Stewart Studiotek 130 G3 92" 16x9
18.1 - FL

User 1
Film mode
Gamma - Custom (2.3 - 2.23 calibrated)
Color Management - Custom 1
Contrast - (-6)
Brightness - (-5)
Color - 0
Tint - 0
Sharpness - 0
NR - 0
MPC Level - 2
Lens Aperture - (-12)
Lamp - High mode

Thanks in advance

Your contrast/brightness seems weird. If it's not a typo, I would try to set hdmi to standard and contrast/brightness to 0, or hdmi to enhanced and contrast to +14 and brightness to -6. They might not be exactly the right settings for your setup, but they should be better than what you have in a bat cave, with this screen.
Not sure it could explain the grain/noise, but it could help.
Also try to change the lens ap temporarily, and see if it makes a difference when fully open / fully closed. And also try low lamp with a higher aperture. You'll lose some on/off, but it might improve the noise issue.
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post #66 of 151 Old 03-22-2012, 03:21 PM
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Thanks for replying.

My contrast numbers are correct. I achieved a perfect grayscale with these settings running from 30 to 100. Colors and gamma are also spot on. The image is incredible detailed and crisp during dark images. The problems are visible during bright scenes only. HDMI is set to enhanced; in normal mode whites where crushed.

Remember that I'm coming from a very dim DLP image; around 10FL with a brand new bulb. Even dough I'm having these issues the JVC throws a beautiful image.
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post #67 of 151 Old 03-22-2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigimonagas View Post

Thanks for replying.

My contrast numbers are correct. I achieved a perfect grayscale with these settings running from 30 to 100. Colors and gamma are also spot on. The image is incredible detailed and crisp during dark images. The problems are visible during bright scenes only. HDMI is set to enhanced; in normal mode whites where crushed.

Remember that I'm coming from a very dim DLP image; around 10FL with a brand new bulb. Even dough I'm having these issues the JVC throws a beautiful image.

I am not trying to undermine your calibration. I am just suggesting, based on my experience, a few things to try to see if it has a positive or negative effect on the issue.
It is entirely up to you to try them or not.
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post #68 of 151 Old 03-22-2012, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

I am not trying to undermine your calibration. I am just suggesting, based on my experience, a few things to try to see if it has a positive or negative effect on the issue.
It is entirely up to you to try them or not.

Will try them and report back.

Thanks,
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post #69 of 151 Old 03-23-2012, 06:01 AM
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It appears that in standard HDMI mode all colors are clipping in my setup. In enhance mode everything looks normal. Raising the contrast to +14 crushes not only the whites, but all colors. A +2 setting seams to tone down a lot the noise/grain problems. By Playing the with lamp/iris setup I found out that I could solve the problem but would have to sacrifice a lot light output.

I also noticed that these issues are only present on some discs (All Transformers, I Robot). I watched the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo last night and didn't detect any of the problems. Image looked amazing, like razor sharp DLP with better blacks and detail. I also tried some animation (Meet the Robinsons, Rango) and no problems what so ever.

Thanks kindly for all the help and suggestions.
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post #70 of 151 Old 03-23-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigimonagas View Post

Report:

It appears that in standard HDMI mode all colors are clipping in my setup. In enhance mode everything looks normal. Raising the contrast to +14 crushes not only the whites, but all colors. A +2 setting seams to tone down a lot the noise/grain problems. By Playing the with lamp/iris setup I found out that I could solve the problem but would have to sacrifice a lot light output.

I also noticed that these issues are only present on some discs (All Transformers, I Robot). I watched the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo last night and didn't detect any of the problems. Image looked amazing, like razor sharp DLP with better blacks and detail. I also tried some animation (Meet the Robinsons, Rango) and no problems what so ever.

Thanks kindly for all the help and suggestions.

So if you used enhance in the end what + - did you end up with for black and contrast?
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post #71 of 151 Old 03-23-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigimonagas View Post

Report:

It appears that in standard HDMI mode all colors are clipping in my setup. In enhance mode everything looks normal. Raising the contrast to +14 crushes not only the whites, but all colors. A +2 setting seams to tone down a lot the noise/grain problems. By Playing the with lamp/iris setup I found out that I could solve the problem but would have to sacrifice a lot light output.

I also noticed that these issues are only present on some discs (All Transformers, I Robot). I watched the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo last night and didn't detect any of the problems. Image looked amazing, like razor sharp DLP with better blacks and detail. I also tried some animation (Meet the Robinsons, Rango) and no problems what so ever.

Thanks kindly for all the help and suggestions.

Glad some of the suggestions helped.

Based on your feedback, I suggest you investigate your source and/or avr settings. Make sure they are both set to hdmi standard, even if you use enhanced on the rs65. Make sure the avr isn't doing any processing or change of colorspace. If there is a pure direct mode on your avr, try to use it.

In standard and brightness/contrast set to 0,0, the JVC has a bit of black crush, but I never came across such behaviour with whites/color crushing.
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post #72 of 151 Old 03-24-2012, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

So if you used enhance in the end what + - did you end up with for black and contrast?

-6 for Brightness
+2 Contrast

My avr is a Mcintosh MX150, which doesn't have a video processor. It acts only as a switcher. The Mcintosh Blu Ray has a source direct option but I don't see any difference from the auto mode.

I calibrated the projector again using Calman pro and the Eye One Pro and only had to adjust a few points in the grayscale. Colors maintained their proper settings.
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post #73 of 151 Old 03-24-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigimonagas View Post

-6 for Brightness
+2 Contrast

My avr is a Mcintosh MX150, which doesn't have a video processor. It acts only as a switcher. The Mcintosh Blu Ray has a source direct option but I don't see any difference from the auto mode.

I calibrated the projector again using Calman pro and the Eye One Pro and only had to adjust a few points in the grayscale. Colors maintained their proper settings.

So it seems like all your problems are resolved since you changed to enhanced.
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post #74 of 151 Old 03-24-2012, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

So it seems like all your problems are resolved since you changed to enhanced.

He was in enhanced to start with, but with a very weird contrast value (-6). +2 is a bit closer to what is to be expected in enhanced, but still weird.

What's even weirder is the clipping in standard. I've never seen that on a JVC.

Apparently what made the biggest difference was the change to low lamp/different lens ap.
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post #75 of 151 Old 03-24-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

He was in enhanced to start with, but with a very weird contrast value (-6). +2 is a bit closer to what is to be expected in enhanced, but still weird.

What's even weirder is the clipping in standard. I've never seen that on a JVC.

Apparently what made the biggest difference was the change to low lamp/different lens ap.

Manni was it you that said +14 contast, -7 black with enhanced?
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post #76 of 151 Old 03-24-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post


Manni was it you that said +14 contast, -7 black with enhanced?

Yes, although it might vary unit to unit, but it's closer the what's most often found.

When using hdmi enhanced, it is advised to set contrast first, as it has a strong effect on brightness.
If you set brightness first, you are likely to raise your absolute black level.

By the way, these values are meant to target 235 for contrast, not super white.
The main benefit is to deal with the slight black crush (present in hdmi standard).

However, depending on the way you set enhanced and on your lens ap settings, you can easily raise black levels and hurt on/off.

To debug, I highly recommend using hdmi standard with values at zero, zero as it's usually a safe fallback.
You are likely to have a slight black crush (level 17 might not show) but otherwise it should give you a good starting point (in a bat cave with a nominal gain screen) unless there is something going on with the avr/source.

Ymmv, yada yada yada
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post #77 of 151 Old 03-26-2012, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Yes, although it might vary unit to unit, but it's closer the what's most often found.

When using hdmi enhanced, it is advised to set contrast first, as it has a strong effect on brightness.
If you set brightness first, you are likely to raise your absolute black level.

By the way, these values are meant to target 235 for contrast, not super white.
The main benefit is to deal with the slight black crush (present in hdmi standard).

However, depending on the way you set enhanced and on your lens ap settings, you can easily raise black levels and hurt on/off.

To debug, I highly recommend using hdmi standard with values at zero, zero as it's usually a safe fallback.
You are likely to have a slight black crush (level 17 might not show) but otherwise it should give you a good starting point (in a bat cave with a nominal gain screen) unless there is something going on with the avr/source.

Ymmv, yada yada yada


If the blu-ray player is not limited to HDMI standard, some of the test discs are based on 0-255 and NOT 0-235. So crush would be seen at +14 based on those discs/test screens. It is very important that the test pattern is understood as well as all the components in the chain. I am a bit suspicious that the reason +2 was the final value was because the test material used was 0-255.

JVC projectors really don't vary much at all. You may get a +-1 variance in settings for things like brightness and contrast. More than that, and either the projector is faulty or there are other things happening in the chain.
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post #78 of 151 Old 03-26-2012, 03:54 AM
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117" wide 1.2 gain white 2.35:1 samples X90 (RS65) 13` throw.
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #79 of 151 Old 03-26-2012, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

If the blu-ray player is not limited to HDMI standard, some of the test discs are based on 0-255 and NOT 0-235. So crush would be seen at +14 based on those discs/test screens. It is very important that the test pattern is understood as well as all the components in the chain. I am a bit suspicious that the reason +2 was the final value was because the test material used was 0-255.

JVC projectors really don't vary much at all. You may get a +-1 variance in settings for things like brightness and contrast. More than that, and either the projector is faulty or there are other things happening in the chain.

For brightness and contrast I used the Oppo Forge Disc, for grayscale and color the AVS disc. With HDMI set to Standard in user 1, film mode, 0-0 (Brightness & contrast) whites, blacks, and every other color clips. By switching to enhance everything looks normal. If a raise the contrast to +14 everything again clips. I ended up with +2 at 18.5 FL with a 2.22 gamma, excellent grayscale tracking and an almost perfect CMS. Blacks look deep and bright. Remember that this is my first JVC projector coming from DLP, so any more suggestions are welcome.

Thanks again
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post #80 of 151 Old 03-26-2012, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigimonagas View Post

For brightness and contrast I used the Oppo Forge Disc, for grayscale and color the AVS disc. With HDMI set to Standard in user 1, film mode, 0-0 (Brightness & contrast) whites, blacks, and every other color clips. By switching to enhance everything looks normal. If a raise the contrast to +14 everything again clips. I ended up with +2 at 18.5 FL with a 2.22 gamma, excellent grayscale tracking and an almost perfect CMS. Blacks look deep and bright. Remember that this is my first JVC projector coming from DLP, so any more suggestions are welcome.

Thanks again

Hi, did you mean the Spears & Munsil High-Definition Benchmark Blu-ray Edition which comes bundled free with Oppo blu-ray players? This one IS 0-255 and will show crush on HDMI standard even though 99% of Blu-rays would not because they are only 0-235. A few people have tripped up with the same thing using that disc and a JVC projector. Even when you set it to HDMI enhanced, if you calibrate so that disc shows properly, you are actually throwing away some contrast because as I say, 99% of titles won't use 235-255 anyway.
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post #81 of 151 Old 03-26-2012, 06:42 AM
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Yes, that disc. Ok so I should use the AVS disc for brightness and constrast also?
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post #82 of 151 Old 03-26-2012, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigimonagas View Post

Yes, that disc. Ok so I should use the AVS disc for brightness and constrast also?

Yes the AVS disc is fine. It clearly labels the 16 black, and 235 white. So you "should" see clipping start at those 2 points. Don't worry if you have difficulty seeing 17 as this is a known issue with JVCs without some additional tinkering. Set HDMI to enhanced on the JVC but calibrate for 16-235 and you should hopefully now find your levels are identical or within 1 point of Manni's suggestion. It is better to keep black level down rather than raise it to see level 17, so don't feel too bad if you can't see it.
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post #83 of 151 Old 03-26-2012, 09:56 AM
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I just sold my RS-35 today and debating where to go to next.
The RS55 is the natural progression, but I'm also thinking about the RS65.

My rationale on the RS65 as a very long-term projector are as follows:
a) it is 4K ( well e-shift interlaced anways, and I'm OK with that - I saw RS65/X90 at CES )
b) we may be many years away from "mainstream" 4K source material
c) can native contrast get much better than 120,000:1 and how much more native contrast can my eyes appreciate
d) it is bright enough for a Da-Lite HiPower 136" wide scope screen
e) I still don't give a hoot about 3D, so its 3D issues aren't a big concern
f) I will have Chromapure/DVDO-Duo/Display-3-Pro to address calibration issues

Have any of you spent time with both the RS55 & RS65 ?
Aside from the bundled emitter & 2 glasses, is the extra contrast of the RS65 that much more noticable than the RS55 ?
Would you quantify the RS65 at 10%, 15%, 20% better than the RS55 ?

- Andy
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post #84 of 151 Old 03-26-2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Lammer View Post

I just sold my RS-35 today and debating where to go to next.
The RS55 is the natural progression, but I'm also thinking about the RS65.

My rationale on the RS65 as a very long-term projector are as follows:
a) it is 4K ( well e-shift interlaced anways, and I'm OK with that - I saw RS65/X90 at CES )
b) we may be many years away from "mainstream" 4K source material
c) can native contrast get much better than 120,000:1 and how much more native contrast can my eyes appreciate
d) it is bright enough for a Da-Lite HiPower 136" wide scope screen
e) I still don't give a hoot about 3D, so its 3D issues aren't a big concern
f) I will have Chromapure/DVDO-Duo/Display-3-Pro to address calibration issues

Have any of you spent time with both the RS55 & RS65 ?
Aside from the bundled emitter & 2 glasses, is the extra contrast of the RS65 that much more noticable than the RS55 ?
Would you quantify the RS65 at 10%, 15%, 20% better than the RS55 ?

- Andy

A review comparing both...
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/JVC-...63/Review.html
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post #85 of 151 Old 03-26-2012, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Yes the AVS disc is fine. It clearly labels the 16 black, and 235 white. So you "should" see clipping start at those 2 points. Don't worry if you have difficulty seeing 17 as this is a known issue with JVCs without some additional tinkering. Set HDMI to enhanced on the JVC but calibrate for 16-235 and you should hopefully now find your levels are identical or within 1 point of Manni's suggestion. It is better to keep black level down rather than raise it to see level 17, so don't feel too bad if you can't see it.

Jon is the AVE HD Basics disc just as good as the AVS disc for resolving 17/235?
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post #86 of 151 Old 03-27-2012, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Jon is the AVE HD Basics disc just as good as the AVS disc for resolving 17/235?

I believe the AVE HD disc is fine..it is a couple of years since I looked at it, but I don't recall any concern with calibrating 16-235 with it!
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post #87 of 151 Old 03-27-2012, 12:44 PM
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Trigger has been pulled -> RS65 on the way !
( my RS-35 found a happy home yesterday )

I currently have 120" 16:9 Silverstar.
So far leaning towards 136" x 58" standard HiPower ( 2.4 )
Am waiting for a sample of DNP 23 to arrive before making final decision.
Anyone own a DNP screen ?

- Andy
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post #88 of 151 Old 03-27-2012, 01:34 PM
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Andy - there is some detailed discussion in this thread regarding the DNP, not sure if you've read through it already.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1378510
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post #89 of 151 Old 03-28-2012, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post

I have it, got it from the JVC site had to use my serial number before i could download it, GaryB linked to it from the avforum site, sorry lost link you will have to search.

Searched for you here you go.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/16233754-post139.html

Spyder4Elite spec lists Front projection as YES so double check on the Pro version

sorry for the late reply, haven't been here for awhile.

Thank you Kevin for the link.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/wink.gif
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post #90 of 151 Old 03-29-2012, 09:36 AM
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I thought I read on the JVC website or a review that the eshift works only when its sent an HD signal? Or will the projector take a lower resolution signal, say 480i/p, upscale it to 1080p, then output it using the eshift technology? I suspect the latter.....

Adz
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