JVS DLA-RS45/X30 Calibration - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 173 Old 01-10-2012, 01:33 PM
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It seems JVC has some apparent firmware issues:

1) apparent random hangs, sometime correlated to hdmi source switching? Has been reported several times in this (or that other very similar thread)

2) color incorrect when using ceiling mode. This has been reported once...

But even if one ignores #2, it will be interesting to see how/if jvc handles a firmware upgrade.

... Altan
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post #92 of 173 Old 01-10-2012, 01:36 PM
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I was very impressed with Bitwize's RS45.

I just want to remind everyone:

Advanced settings required for calibration vary a lot from one sample to the next. If you don't like the way Bitwize's settings look on your unit, don't assume you don't like a calibrated picture, because chances are you're not seeing one.
Not only are there the normal electronic variations from one RS45 to another, but the bulbs vary quite a lot as well.

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post #93 of 173 Old 01-10-2012, 01:49 PM
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"color incorrect when using ceiling mode"

What did you mean?

Thanks Daniel
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post #94 of 173 Old 01-10-2012, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel-ht5 View Post

"color incorrect when using ceiling mode"

What did you mean?

Thanks Daniel

See this post above. Look for the "huge bug" paragraph that talks about uniformity. Problem has only been reported once on this thread, so perhaps it should be treated as "developing".

... Altan
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post #95 of 173 Old 01-18-2012, 12:50 PM
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When doing the custom gamma, which really is the grey scale at each ire point, is white "luminance" at each point? And why not use the custom gamma instead of the gains and offsets?
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post #96 of 173 Old 01-18-2012, 01:05 PM
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You need to adjust gain to set 100IRE to 6500k. Gamma can't fix 100IRE. Do this first!

You don't need to adjust offset if you do a custom gamma curve and fix per colour (as should be done).

I'm afraid I didn't follow the first part of your question though - what are you looking for?
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post #97 of 173 Old 01-19-2012, 04:50 AM
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When setting the custom gamma, I am used to using a Videoeq. There you had luminance, red, green, blue to bring everything to your target gamma curve. Is white what you adjust to bring it to the target curve?
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post #98 of 173 Old 01-19-2012, 07:19 AM
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I see what you're saying. Yes, white would be the equivalent to luminance.

You can use white to bring it to the curve first and then balance rgb at each point, or you can just use rgb the whole way. Both ways work.
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post #99 of 173 Old 01-19-2012, 10:09 AM
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What setting did you use as your base? I was going to use Natural, 6000K, custom gamma.
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post #100 of 173 Old 01-19-2012, 02:39 PM
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Thanks, 6000 was the closest to 6500 using my Colormunki.
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post #101 of 173 Old 01-19-2012, 05:45 PM
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Same here. With the IDiplay Pro 3, 6000k measures about 6300k and 6500k measures 6800k on mine (cinema mode). I ended using the 6k as the base.
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post #102 of 173 Old 01-19-2012, 05:50 PM
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and BTW, to get the right temp (white point), I recommend using the custom temperature settings. By adjusting the gains and the offsets (starting with 6000k as the base), I got a perfect D65 in 3-4 trials. When that's done, it was easy to calibrate the gamma curve afterwards (via the custom gamma option).
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post #103 of 173 Old 01-20-2012, 05:02 AM
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Funny you mention that. We were watching Midnight In Paris and the picture did look slightly yellowish and I did switch to 6500k to look good. I haven't really played enough with it yet though.
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post #104 of 173 Old 01-21-2012, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitwize View Post

Just had the RS45 calibrated by my go-to-guy Chad B (www.hdtvbychadb.com).

Thanks for your calibration report. I've added a link to in in the owner's calibration report thread that's linked at the bottom of my post.
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post #105 of 173 Old 02-06-2012, 11:27 AM
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Just grabbed a SpectraCal C6, about to take some measurements with Calman, I'm used to HCFR so may take me a while...




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post #106 of 173 Old 02-06-2012, 04:14 PM
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^^^^
I didn't think that HCFR supported C6. Is that a new version?
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post #107 of 173 Old 02-12-2012, 02:03 AM
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Here is the CIE for Natural vs. Cinema on the JVC RS-45 at 200 hours of lamp usage, note I calibrated the gray-scale of every mode and then took the Sat readings, but these are really the only two modes even close on the gamut. It's pretty much a toss-up to which one is better, would have to watch both and see. On one hand the natural has less hue error on the secondaries, but has a larger saturation error. Most likely Cinema will still look better, even though the Cyan hue is off. I could have fiddled with it more from custom gamma and offsets, but wouldn't make that much difference since there is no CMS. I will post the full calibration once I am convinced I've found the best combo of settings, because different gray-scale mixes of leaving green alone or reducing green may in fact affect the gamut (haven't tried everything yet). As it stands right now, a CMS could improve this by picking one of the over-saturated modes and then doing that one.
---------------------------------------------------

Natural:


------------------------------------------------------

Cinema


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post #108 of 173 Old 02-12-2012, 02:27 AM
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OK. I've read that the best calibration point to do is gamma (biggest bang-for-your-buck so to speak). Can anything be done with gamma without a meter? I would like to do some calibration, but I don't have a calibration meter or whatever you want to call it (and I am sure that most people don't have one).

Can anything be done without spending the money? I know, I know, someone is just going to say that I should just get a meter, but I am just asking. I mean can something like the Disney WOW disc help at all? I have that new in shrink-wrap, but am wondering if it is worth keeping.

Please advise. Thanks!
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post #109 of 173 Old 02-15-2012, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

OK. I've read that the best calibration point to do is gamma (biggest bang-for-your-buck so to speak). Can anything be done with gamma without a meter? I would like to do some calibration, but I don't have a calibration meter or whatever you want to call it (and I am sure that most people don't have one).

Can anything be done without spending the money? I know, I know, someone is just going to say that I should just get a meter, but I am just asking. I mean can something like the Disney WOW disc help at all? I have that new in shrink-wrap, but am wondering if it is worth keeping.

Please advise. Thanks!


I second this request? Any cheap and nasty way to do this? The black crush is killing me on an otherwise great projector
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post #110 of 173 Old 02-15-2012, 08:47 PM
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Something like Disney WOW helps you set brightness, contrast, sharpness, colour and hue/tint.

A calibration involving gamma and achieving accurate colours requires a meter.

You can get a quite reasonable calibration with a ~$100 meter like the I1 Display2 LT and free software (HCFR) - certainly it will give you much more accurate results then you would achieve if you just tried to do it by eye.

This certainly won't be as accurate as the meter/software combo featured by coderguy above, but it'll definitely get you a good ways in the right direction.
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post #111 of 173 Old 02-15-2012, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locki View Post

I second this request? Any cheap and nasty way to do this? The black crush is killing me on an otherwise great projector

The black crush and loss of shadow detail is because the JVC's default gamma curve is backwards, and to make it worse, it also drifts over time. Even Chad's pre-calibration gamma measurement shows it being backwards before he fixed it, but on a unit with more hours it might be even worse than his graph shows due to gamma drift.

Without a meter, here is what you can do, first make sure your brightness is set to around -6 and contrast to 12-13 if using enhanced mode on bluray, otherwise I believe you should set these at 0 (you'll be able to tell easily which one you need to use (-6 vs. 0), because the blacks will be obviously off if you choose the wrong brightness and contrast.

Next, go into the custom gamma editor, and choose a numerical gamma preset that looks best with your unit for BRIGHT SCENES (probably 2.3 to 2.4 if on a new lamp, but if older lamp (100+ hrs), then maybe 2.6 if it has drifted). You may need to watch a few different bright scenes for about 5 minutes and keep changing the gamma preset number (2.3 to 2.6) back and forth to decide. After you find the one that looks best by eye in bright scenes ONLY, move onto the next step...

Next load a dark scene for reference (something from a movie or whatever, or use the AVS test disc or Disney Gamma editor, or something) and go into the custom gamma editor on your JVC and increase the output value of the white gamma point at 5,10,15,20 IRE's until the shadow detail looks about right, and compare a few different dark scenes and make sure the blacks look rich still but also have shadow detail. Keep increasing the white gamma until it looks correct. When adjusting the gamma, increase each IRE by about the same PERCENTAGE amount (hence if you raise 5 IRE by 10 output points and it started at 30 (that's 33% increase), raise all the 5-20 IRE white gamma points by the same percentage I believe (you can try it both ways, raising each one by the same numerical amount or by a percentage amount). I'd say increase each one by 10% as your first attempt, then try 20% if that didn't help enough. You probably do not need to do this to IRE's over 20 (25-95). The white gamma editor is fairly simple to use once you figure it out, but the remote clicking procedures are awkward. What this will do is lower the gamma value in the dark scenes increasing shadow detail. Don't adjust things too extremely, just get it to the point where it looks good enough.


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post #112 of 173 Old 02-23-2012, 05:00 AM
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I finally spent some time and got a pretty good calibration. I believe I started out with 6000 temp and 2.4 gamma. Got a pretty good greyscale. Moving tint to -10 brought the luminances of red and green close enough. Blue was still way low though. I even started to like how they do the greyscale. Calman with Colormunki by the way.
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post #113 of 173 Old 02-23-2012, 06:01 AM
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Mouradb: Your calibration numbers were spot on for me with the change to 6500K temp....THANKS a ton for all the numbers. This was the best setting for me compared to the ones others have posted. Absolutely stunning picture! God bless. :-)
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post #114 of 173 Old 02-24-2012, 07:02 AM
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I have a quick question. Have any of you measured any significant change in the gamma as you go from your initial calibration and then after you get perhaps 100+ additional hours of use on the lamp?

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post #115 of 173 Old 04-08-2012, 12:26 PM
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I have a X30 with just over 40 hours on the lamp. Using HCFR 3.0.1.0 and first a Spyder4 and now a i1d3 I've made a night and day difference in the picture quality folowing the curtpalme guide. Used DVE BluRay and just now the AVS709 to do the primary colors. Below are the settings I've landed on. The dE is under 3 from 30ire up on greyscale and only a 4 on 20ire. Primary colors have dE of 2.6 / 4.6 / 6.2 for RGB, the green and blue need work but without a CMS.....

14' throw into a Carada BW 106" 16x9
12.5ftL on the screen according to the i1d3, which the spyder4 pegged at 14.5ftL. Who knows which is right.
SW v28.056
User1
Lens App 0
Normal (low) lamp @40 hours
Contrast +3
Brightness 0
Color +4
Tint 0
Color temp custom1
Correction value 6000k
Green gain -9
Blue Offset +3
All others 0
Gamma and color space are normal
HDMI mode super white

Gamma is tracking an average of 2.09, how do I go about tweaking that with the tools in the X30?
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post #116 of 173 Old 04-11-2012, 10:13 AM
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Anyone going with Wide 1 color? I have a Videoeq and am wondering if I should go with this and then rein it in with the processor. I have an excellent greyscale just using the projector. I can get a decent gamut but if I mess too much with the hues, I introduce errors in contrast (blue bars).
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post #117 of 173 Old 04-11-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkpro View Post

Anyone going with Wide 1 color? I have a Videoeq and am wondering if I should go with this and then rein it in with the processor. I have an excellent greyscale just using the projector. I can get a decent gamut but if I mess too much with the hues, I introduce errors in contrast (blue bars).

I think Tom Huffman of Chroma Pure suggested that Cinema and standard work best and cause the least errors.
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post #118 of 173 Old 04-11-2012, 01:57 PM
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Thanks for the info. I wonder though with the use of a video processor if that changes things.
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post #119 of 173 Old 04-11-2012, 02:23 PM
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If the video processor is going to be used to alter the color gamut, then yes you need to use one of the color presets that has a wider gamut. I am not sure which profile is best for use with a VP, depends really. This is because you can narrow a gamut with an external processor, but you cannot widen it if is already too narrow. Hence, the only way to fix a narrow gamut with an external VP is to start with a wider one.


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post #120 of 173 Old 04-11-2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

If the video processor is going to be used to alter the color gamut, then yes you need to use one of the color presets that has a wider gamut. I am not sure which profile is best for use with a VP, depends really. This is because you can narrow a gamut with an external processor, but you cannot widen it if is already too narrow. Hence, the only way to fix a narrow gamut with an external VP is to start with a wider one.

I have an RS-45 and it does not have the full CMS like the RS-55, now I am having some even harder issues trying to get the yellow out of skin tones than before. I can tell my PJ needs another calibration at 300 hours and the lamp has significantly dimmed. I may be calling JVC for a replacement lamp soon, it looks like its on the way out.

Thanks for the info regarding the wider color gamut. I will try a re-calibration with Chroma Pure on the Duo in a few days and will report back. I am having an issue with too much red on my greyscale ramp near the top. I also think it might be smart to call JVC and ask for a new lamp before the problem gets worse.
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