Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 03:35 AM 03-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Mike, I have been going back and forth with Andy @ BQ. I sent additional photos this morning showing the mapping issue and explaining how to replicate the problem with a PC going back and forth between VGA and HDMI mode. It's the simplest test to show them what's happening. It's not quite as obvious with video sources unless you A/B between HDMI and VGA with a high quality source.

I asked him to see if this is happening with the beta firmware he is currently testing.

His son had some minor surgery yesterday, so he was not able to get to test, (who could blame him) but he said that he would be looking at it today.

zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 09:17 AM 03-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

His son had some minor surgery yesterday, so he was not able to get to test, (who could blame him) but he said that he would be looking at it today.

that's the same info he sent me late last night.. definitely understandable.

I'm glad they are listening and attempting to resolve the issue. The photos I provided were clear enough where they could see the obvious difference in HDMI vs. VGA mode, so hopefully the firmware they are testing does the trick.
JerryW's Avatar JerryW 02:31 PM 03-30-2012
I hope they can reproduce the problem first.

If they can't reproduce it, then they can't know if the new firmware really fixes it or they just got lucky with whatever particular configuration they have in the lab. After all, it is hard to imagine that a problem of this magnitude would get through QA if it happened to every unit. It is more likely that it only happens under certain conditions and those conditions weren't part of their QA testing.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 03:59 PM 03-30-2012
I don't think it will be hard to reproduce the problem. They only need a PC with HDMI / DVI output, 1920 x 1080 desktop screen and the built in 'MSPAINT' program to draw some single pixel boxes that intersect.

I do believe it's happening on all W7000's out in the field. The reason it could have gotten past Q/A is because it's not entirely obvious with video content. It's still reasonably sharp, but definitely not as a good as it can be (the VGA output is the evidence)

I'll post when I have more info from BQ.
Ruined's Avatar Ruined 07:56 AM 03-31-2012
I'm sure it is fixable since Cru Jones had the problem and they sent him a unit with the issue fixed... Question is can BenQ just send out a usb stick/download or do we have to ship em all back again?
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 09:53 AM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

I'm sure it is fixable since Cru Jones had the problem and they sent him a unit with the issue fixed... Question is can BenQ just send out a usb stick/download or do we have to ship em all back again?

I am somewhat doubtful his was actually fixed. If he hooked up a PC, he'll likely see the same thing the rest of us are seeing. Without the PC test and a frame of reference like I have with the W6000 and SP890, I could see it being easily overlooked.

The 9500 is a good example - all of them have the same HDMI mapping issues, yet plenty of owners seem to like it. If you don't hook up the VGA connection and see how much clearer it is, it still looks decent, just not as good as it should be.

let's see what happens this week with their testing of the updated firmware.
svosteve's Avatar svosteve 12:17 PM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I am somewhat doubtful his was actually fixed. If he hooked up a PC, he'll likely see the same thing the rest of us are seeing. Without the PC test and a frame of reference like I have with the W6000 and SP890, I could see it being easily overlooked.

The 9500 is a good example - all of them have the same HDMI mapping issues, yet plenty of owners seem to like it. If you don't hook up the VGA connection and see how much clearer it is, it still looks decent, just not as good as it should be.

let's see what happens this week with their testing of the updated firmware.

You are right Jason. My third projector has the vga hdmi problem like everyone else. Here are the pictures that I took today.
The first one is HDMI and the second is VGA
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Ruined's Avatar Ruined 12:23 PM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

You are right Jason. My third projector has the vga hdmi problem like everyone else. Here are the pictures that I took today.
The first one is HDMI and the second is VGA

Seriously, these W7000 projectors are running effectively 1080p over VGA, but over HDMI the effective resolution appears only 720p.

BenQ needs to fix this as they can't advertise the W7000 as 1080p if the effective resolution over HDMI is only 720p upscaled.
TSO's Avatar TSO 01:01 PM 03-31-2012
Just a point of clarification for those of us joining this thread late (WAS in the market for a W7000...) -

Is this softening happening only on a PC HDMI source, or on ANY HDMI sourse, like blu ray or satellite?

Thanks
Ruined's Avatar Ruined 01:04 PM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSO View Post

Just a point of clarification for those of us joining this thread late (WAS in the market for a W7000...) -

Is this softening happening only on a PC HDMI source, or on ANY HDMI sourse, like blu ray or satellite?

Thanks

All HDMI sources.
JerryW's Avatar JerryW 01:56 PM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

You are right Jason. My third projector has the vga hdmi problem like everyone else. Here are the pictures that I took today.
The first one is HDMI and the second is VGA

Regardless of the sharpness issue, that seems like a lot of chromatic aberration there - if this were a 3-chip projector I'd say convergence was off. Are those photos from close to the edge of the screen or near the center and how much zoom and/or lens-shift are you using?
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 02:03 PM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryW View Post

Regardless of the sharpness issue, that seems like a lot of chromatic aberration there - if this were a 3-chip projector I'd say convergence was off. Are those photos from close to the edge of the screen or near the center and how much zoom and/or lens-shift are you using?

I wonder if he has cleartype turned on.. it surrounds the pixel with funky colors. I turned it off for my photos above.
svosteve's Avatar svosteve 02:18 PM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryW View Post

Regardless of the sharpness issue, that seems like a lot of chromatic aberration there - if this were a 3-chip projector I'd say convergence was off. Are those photos from close to the edge of the screen or near the center and how much zoom and/or lens-shift are you using?

I used a canon A590 digital camera set on TV mode. The shutter speed was set to 1/4. The zoom was fully out.
svosteve's Avatar svosteve 02:21 PM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

I used a canon A590 digital camera set on TV mode. The shutter speed was set to 1/4. The zoom was fully out.

I also took the picture from the top left side of the screen. My current w7000 is well focused in all 4 corners unlike my first w7000.
Mikes2cents's Avatar Mikes2cents 08:09 PM 03-31-2012
I posted this in the Acer 9500 thread but thought it may be of interest to some here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

For those who are not aware or do not remember, there has been pictures posted of the blur issue a long time ago. Some say it is a 1:1 pixel mapping issue and some say it is from downsampling 1080 to 720 and then back to 1080 which I am beginning to think may be the case, but I am still waiting for Acer support engineers to explain it.

Now movie and video viewing looks very good but some say that it is even better via VGA (From the W7000 forum). So they think the issue extends to all HDMI/DVI input viewing and not just PC input. If this is the case that is a real bummer because we don't know what we are missing. I am going to try to figure out a way to test this via VGA which none of my video cards support for blu-ray viewing.

Enough blah blah, here are the pics. The first one is the VGA via my older laptop because as I said my PC does not do that in the current configuration. It is the exact same file in paint as the HDMI ones from the PC that follow. I apologize for the quality but I did the best I could with what I have. No matter the quality you should be able to see exactly what the 9500 is doing. Here we go:

VGA:



HDMI input:





Wish I had better camera equipment but you can see what is going on and it looks worse in person.


zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 08:41 AM 04-01-2012
Mike- thanks for posting the examples on the 9500.

I'm still not convinced it's happening in 3D mode, I did some A/B back and forth last night between the W7000 and the 5010 which is quite sharp in 3D. This is a closeup of the 'PLAY' graphic in the beginning of 'Hugo'. it looked sharp on the W7000 and took some closeups to compare. (camera is about 8" from the screen)

3D mode - photographed through the left lens of the Optoma ZD201 on the BQ and the factory Epson glasses on the 5010.

W7000



5010


Mikes2cents's Avatar Mikes2cents 09:52 AM 04-01-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I'm still not convinced it's happening in 3D mode, [/IMG]

I would have to agree with you Jason. 3D on the 9500 is absolutely beautiful and as clear as it gets. The problem is comparing that to a 2D shot that might reveal something. I need to figure out which 3D movie I have that has good comparison material, IOWs something that might show blurring while paused, if there is any, and look at both 2D and 3D. I have a feeling BenQ is going to be providing an answer to this before Acer does but if I hear back from Acer before I will let everyone here know what they say as well since it seems the two units are doing the same thing.
svosteve's Avatar svosteve 07:48 PM 04-02-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

I also took the picture from the top left side of the screen. My current w7000 is well focused in all 4 corners unlike my first w7000.

I tried playing x-men through my HTPC using VGA output and HDMI output. Here is the difference between the two. It seems that HDMI (PIC 1) makes the picture look a lot darker then PC (PIC 2). All the user1 settings are the same for both.
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davo1976's Avatar davo1976 08:17 PM 04-02-2012
Does anyone have excellent calibration numbers for a totally dark cinema room to input into a BENQ W7000? Also do you have good ISF calibration numbers? I will be playing my videos through HDMI using either a WD live TV HUB or a panasonic 3D blu ray player.
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 08:57 PM 04-02-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

3D mode - photographed through the left lens of the Optoma ZD201 on the BQ and the factory Epson glasses on the 5010.

W7000



5010


Good picture showing the difference of pixel fill ratio between DLP and LCD...
ahmedreda's Avatar ahmedreda 08:04 AM 04-03-2012
Davo, If you have used the 2d to 3d conversion on the panasonic player, Did it work with you if you have the 24p turned off?? Mine works only if the output is 24p. If the output is 60p, the projector screen shows a distorted image and even the menus don't show properly. Your feedback is appreciated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davo1976 View Post

Does anyone have excellent calibration numbers for a totally dark cinema room to input into a BENQ W7000? Also do you have good ISF calibration numbers? I will be playing my videos through HDMI using either a WD live TV HUB or a panasonic 3D blu ray player.


davo1976's Avatar davo1976 03:20 AM 04-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

Davo, If you have used the 2d to 3d conversion on the panasonic player, Did it work with you if you have the 24p turned off?? Mine works only if the output is 24p. If the output is 60p, the projector screen shows a distorted image and even the menus don't show properly. Your feedback is appreciated.

Sorry, have not tried this yet. I must be unlucky though, I got my projector on Tuesday, it went dead by wednesday with a red indicator for the lamp and then I get a replacement w7000 today and it was DOA, did not even turn on....disappointed. Maybe my 3rd one will work.....
rlhjr34's Avatar rlhjr34 03:57 AM 04-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by davo1976 View Post

Sorry, have not tried this yet. I must be unlucky though, I got my projector on Tuesday, it went dead by Thursday with a red indicator for the lamp and then I get a replacement w7000 today and it was DOA, did not even turn on....disappointed. Maybe my 3rd one will work.....

Yikes, now I'm worried. My replacement ships today. Sure hope it isn't DOA.
michaelscott73's Avatar michaelscott73 09:03 AM 04-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhjr34 View Post

Yikes, now I'm worried. My replacement ships today. Sure hope it isn't DOA.

So the new firmware is out??
rlhjr34's Avatar rlhjr34 10:40 AM 04-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelscott73 View Post

So the new firmware is out??

Not sure on that. They are shipping a replacement but did not mention anything about the firmware. I hope it is trouble free, PITA to reship over and over.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 10:45 AM 04-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelscott73 View Post

So the new firmware is out??

not yet.. I just received an email from their engineer this morning with an overnight call tag to have this W7000 updated with their latest beta firmware.

The engineers have all the HDMI vs. VGA mapping info I provided recently and they are asking that I check the W7000 after they update the firmware. I am sending it back tomorrow and should arrive by Monday. Hopefully I'll have it back no later than Wednesday to validate the changes.

stay tuned for more info..
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 04:33 PM 04-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

not yet.. I just received an email from their engineer this morning with an overnight call tag to have this W7000 updated with their latest beta firmware.

They should pay you for bug testing or send you a free unit, with all the work you did on it. These MFR's need to have at least one very adept person at finding these issues that goes over everything before they release it to the public, they need to have a group of a few beta testers where they send sample units out ahead of time (they have reviewers, but reviewers often don't have time to correspond). It's only costing them sales and money by not testing this stuff better, and it hurts their REP...
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 04:52 PM 04-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

They should pay you for bug testing or send you a free unit, with all the work you did on it. These MFR's need to have at least one very adept person at finding these issues that goes over everything before they release it to the public, they need to have a group of a few beta testers where they send sample units out ahead of time (they have reviewers, but reviewers often don't have time to correspond). It's only costing them sales and money by not testing this stuff better, and it hurts their REP...

hehe, I'm not counting on that. The reason I put so much effort into this is because the 3D on this projector is excellent and I've been looking for a 1080P 3D DLP to replace the 720P Acer.

It's good to see they are at least listening to the customers/dealers and attempting to resolve the issue. We should know by this time next week if they fixed it.
Toe's Avatar Toe 05:42 PM 04-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

They should pay you for bug testing or send you a free unit, with all the work you did on it. These MFR's need to have at least one very adept person at finding these issues that goes over everything before they release it to the public, they need to have a group of a few beta testers where they send sample units out ahead of time (they have reviewers, but reviewers often don't have time to correspond). It's only costing them sales and money by not testing this stuff better, and it hurts their REP...

I think Jason should just make a career out of it. I trust his reports more than anyone on the net My hat is off.....thanks for all your hard work Zombie!
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 06:17 PM 04-05-2012
He might get burnt out after all the work he did this year. Also, there isn't much money in it (if any), but it is funner than most of our day jobs
I want to build an open venue review site so that external contributors like the Zombies of AVS can submit their own reviews online. When I get the time that is what I will do. I will write some of my own reviews as well, but it'll be more of a collaboration tool than a private review site.

I just now got a chance to get back to the projector calculator, I'm working on a pretty neat aspect of it at the moment, a seating calculator that calculates clearance above seating given any mounting location. It's basically the mounting portion I already finished and then adding another tab to allow people to then move their seating around to see how the projected path might get in the way (or not get in the way) at any given mounting configuration. Not sure when it will be ready (Beta 025 I'll call it), but hopefully sooner than later.
Tags: Benq , Projectors , Benq W7000 Home Projection System , Dlp Projector 2000 1080p
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