Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 3811 Old 04-11-2012, 05:26 PM
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These issues aside, and I won't buy unless they are fixed....I just noticed some screen shots of a game on page 75, post 2229 by isamu..... in the W6000 thread. These BenQs look really good!!
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post #902 of 3811 Old 04-11-2012, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

Why can't Benq engineers test for 1-1 mapping after they flask it? They should test it and ONLY ship it back when all issues have been resolved. Its insane that they would upgrade the firmware but not test it before they sent it back.

Better question, why can't the user flash it themselves like every other modern piece of electronics hardware?
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post #903 of 3811 Old 04-11-2012, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post


Better question, why can't the user flash it themselves like every other modern piece of electronics hardware?

It could be that to flash it, the end user may need a special set of conductors that touch a couple of leads on the inside of the case. . They may have not built the firmware update capability into the ports on the outside. Just a guess..
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post #904 of 3811 Old 04-11-2012, 06:37 PM
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I have 1.02 on my review unit and it has the mapping error. That said, I used both user and ISF modes to calibrate today and the results look really good at first glance. I haven't had a chance to watch much (some of Hugo) but will tonight or tomorrow. Also got 3D glasses in for it to test. I do wish it had a faster color wheel as I can't help but constantly see rainbows.

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post #905 of 3811 Old 04-11-2012, 06:54 PM
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Are you guys kidding me? Sure there is a blurring issue via PC torture test input. I bet the video will knock your socks off. I do not have the W7000 but if it is similar to my 9500 then it rocks. I am watching it right now and have to say it does not get any better than that except BD viewing. For their part, Acer is scratching there collective heads about this. It appears I am the spearhead there. I will post any news I have because I just sent the MS Paint file forward for engineer review. If my picture can get any better then I want that. Just do not know how that is going to happen. It looks soooo good. I suspect the W7000 is the same way and perhaps even better.
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post #906 of 3811 Old 04-11-2012, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Are you guys kidding me? Sure there is a blurring issue via PC torture test input. I bet the video will knock your socks off. I do not have the W7000 but if it is similar to my 9500 then it rocks. I am watching it right now and have to say it does not get any better than that except BD viewing. For their part, Acer is scratching there collective heads about this. It appears I am the spearhead there. I will post any news I have because I just sent the MS Paint file forward for engineer review. If my picture can get any better then I want that. Just do not know how that is going to happen. It looks soooo good. I suspect the W7000 is the same way and perhaps even better.

It's the only projector, or display, that I've reviewed or used that I can recall that can't do 1:1 mapping over HDMI correctly. As such, you can't even set the sharpness control for HDMI correctly since it's either soft, or has ringing around it, but is never sharp. I can easily switch back to a DLP Runco here and see that it's not as sharp. With internal test patterns and menu text it is sharp, but that doesn't extend to any test patterns I can bring up, and I know from that it's making real world material softer as well.

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post #907 of 3811 Old 04-11-2012, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

It's the only projector, or display, that I've reviewed or used that I can recall that can't do 1:1 mapping over HDMI correctly. As such, you can't even set the sharpness control for HDMI correctly since it's either soft, or has ringing around it, but is never sharp. I can easily switch back to a DLP Runco here and see that it's not as sharp. With internal test patterns and menu text it is sharp, but that doesn't extend to any test patterns I can bring up, and I know from that it's making real world material softer as well.

I think one of the reasons it went overlooked by some of the published reviews is that it's not entirely obvious at first, especially on a smaller screen. Once someone compares video over VGA vs HDMI or compare it to another projector sitting right next to it, it become obvious that something isn't right.

I let them know that they flashed SOWK's with 1.02 and to please double-check mine before they flash and send it back tomorrow. I realize folks are frustrated and that everyone wishes the firmware update was a user install. I don't have any answers other than I waited this long, I can wait a few more days to see if it's resolved.

They specifically referred to the beta firmware as the one 'that has to do with HDMI softness', so hopefully all the photos I sent was enough for the HQ to whip up a correct firmware. Plus I know how sharp my BenQ SP890 is at work (same chassis/lens), so I'm picturing an even better image with 1:1.

Chris, btw, thanks for spending my $$. I am eyeing up the Pioneer SC-57 to replace my original SC-07. That was a great review you wrote.
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post #908 of 3811 Old 04-11-2012, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I recieved an email late tonight from BQ confirming there was a mixup with SOWK's projector. They updated my W7000 today with the beta firmware, I should have it back by Friday.
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post #909 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

It's the only projector, or display, that I've reviewed or used that I can recall that can't do 1:1 mapping over HDMI correctly. As such, you can't even set the sharpness control for HDMI correctly since it's either soft, or has ringing around it, but is never sharp. I can easily switch back to a DLP Runco here and see that it's not as sharp. With internal test patterns and menu text it is sharp, but that doesn't extend to any test patterns I can bring up, and I know from that it's making real world material softer as well.

Chris, thanks for the input. The only other PJ I have for side by side is an 8350 and the 9500 looks better though perhaps I need to look at some different material. I am talking about TV or movie watching and not test patterns or Windows material. As I mentioned before, if the picture can be better I will do backflips and that is why I am watching what BenQ can do with the W7000. For now I guess I do not know what I am missing and would probably be better off that way but that is not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I recieved an email late tonight from BQ confirming there was a mixup with SOWK's projector. They updated my W7000 today with the beta firmware, I should have it back by Friday.

Jason, besides finding out if the picture is fixed, for me the real question is what is causing it in the first place? Can you ask your contact about this? Maybe then I can get Acer moving faster on it.
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post #910 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Edit: I just received the W7000 this morning, I wasn't expecting it until tomorrow. Things are looking good!!

I don't have a bluray player at work, only the same Thinkpad with HDMI out that I use to drive my BenQ SP890 at work. I had the W7000 right next the SP890 and I can thankfully say that my 1920x1080P desktop is crystal clear.. I did the single pixel box test in MSPaint and also some quick text in a notepad window.

It is a day/night difference than before I sent it back last week, at least in regard to a PC via HDMI @ 1080P. I won't be home until 10pm EST tonight, but won't go to sleep until I run it through the various tests and will post photos of the AVS HD single pixel tests via the BD player.

I only have my ipad camera at work, ignore the scan lines, they are a side effect of the ipad camera. I assure you guys the box is single pixel perfect and the text is crystal clear. I can't wait to try this out tonight.

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post #911 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 08:27 AM
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Wow! That is looking very promising. Can you ask them what the issue was?
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post #912 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

[b]Edit: I just received the W7000 this morning, I wasn't expecting it until tomorrow. Things are looking good!!

Awesome news. Thanks for all your effort, it's greatly appreciated.

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, would it be possible to determine if the new firmware has increased the lumens in 3D mode? If they address that particular issue (in addition to resolving the sharpness defect in hdmi/component) then the W7000 will be the perfect unit for my living room.

It's great to see that BenQ is actively working with the AVS community to make this a formidable projector.
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post #913 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 08:53 AM
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And of course, the next question is when will the final version be ready and how do we get it?
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post #914 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Wow! That is looking very promising. Can you ask them what the issue was?

Mike, once I validate the initial findings, I'll see if they can provide any information as to what they changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greekwolf View Post

Awesome news. Thanks for all your effort, it's greatly appreciated.

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, would it be possible to determine if the new firmware has increased the lumens in 3D mode? If they address that particular issue (in addition to resolving the sharpness defect in hdmi/component) then the W7000 will be the perfect unit for my living room.

It's great to see that BenQ is actively working with the AVS community to make this a formidable projector.

no problem, I was in weekly contact with them and sent them countless screenshots of the various HDMI vs. VGA comparisons. I am glad they are working with the AVS community to resolve the issue.

If all goes well, i'll get started on round 2 of the mini-shootout to finally give the W7000 a fair comparison against the others. If I have time, I'll try to grab some lumen measurements in 3D later tonight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

And of course, the next question is when will the final version be ready and how do we get it?


They are waiting for me to validate the changes. It's going to take me a few days to go over the entire projector and make sure the CMS is working and that they didn't break anything with this change. I'd imagine they would release it as soon as we give the OK.
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post #915 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 09:22 AM
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Dayam! Jason! You da man!
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post #916 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 09:46 AM
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What did the firmware number say on the beta firmware ?
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post #917 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Dayam! Jason! You da man!

yes... yes I am.

just kidding, but I am exciting to get this home tonight to check it out. The mapping issue was quite obvious on my 142" compared to the other projectors, especially when I know how sharp the W6000 and SP890 I have at work are in comparison. Now the W7000 matches the SP890, at least with a PC 1080P signal over HDMI.

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What did the firmware number say on the beta firmware ?

it's kind of cryptic, it just says 001. I'll verify later tonight.
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post #918 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

yes... yes I am.

just kidding, but I am exciting to get this home tonight to check it out. The mapping issue was quite obvious on my 142" compared to the other projectors, especially when I know how sharp the W6000 and SP890 I have at work are in comparison. Now the W7000 matches the SP890, at least with a PC 1080P signal over HDMI.



it's kind of cryptic, it just says 001. I'll verify later tonight.

GREAT NEWS! I've been putting off this purchase waiting for this to be fixed.
QUESTION - Jason, are you the "Jason" on staff here at the forum (as in Turk)?

If not, Could you PM your name to me? I'd like to contact BenQ and reference the work you are doing with them when I order my projector. In the past, when I have contacted a manufacturer about a PJ issue that has been in the works for months here on the forum, I've had the manufacturer claim ignorance -
"We're not aware of any HDMI problem", "AVSforum? We've never heard of it...", "No, we are not currently working on any firmware update".

Drives me bananas!

Anyway, point being i (and others) would like to be able to reference your good work in our contact with Benq or other distributors, to make sure we get an "updated" unit.

THANKS!!
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post #919 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 11:42 AM
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post #920 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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TSO - Hi, I am not the Jason that works for AVS, I am the 'other' Jason.

Mark from AVS and I have gotten together for the initial mini-shootout in December and i'm helping them review some of the current projectors. I guess i'm a 'friend of the family'.

I understand the frustration about contacting a manufacturer that pretends there isn't an issue. I work in the IT industry and hear 'it's not our problem' all the time. In this case, BenQ was very receptive to speaking with us regarding the issue and that is refreshing no doubt.

It's still too early to say it's fixed, I just had a good first impression with a PC desktop @ 1080P over HDMI which was definitely an issue before they installed this beta firmware. We'll know much more tonight when I get home.

What I would recommend to do is stayed tuned to the thread. If the HDMI bug is squashed, I'm sure BenQ is going to work with AVS to get any current stock up to date (and current owners as well).
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post #921 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 12:00 PM
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While I am happy to hear BenQ may be solving their issues I don't like they relied on end users that paid good money for their product to test it.

Shame on BenQ. I am surprised they still have people interested in this unit after all the shenanigans.

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post #922 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

While I am happy to hear BenQ may be solving their issues I don't like they relied on end users that paid good money for their product to test it.

Shame on BenQ. I am surprised they still have people interested in this unit after all the shenanigans.

Is it any different than buying an iphone or a bluray player that has bugs and subsequent firmware updates? Consumers of electronic devices have become a sort of beta tester, that's the current state of affairs. I'm not saying it's right, but it happens.

What's important to me is a company that listens to their customers. They could have easily told me to take a hike.

in regard to folks waiting for the W7000, there's more folks lined up then you might expect. BenQ has been known for their sharp lenses and good lamp life in this particular chassis. If the HDMI issue is resolved, there is a good chance it's going to lay the smackdown on the current crop of projectors in regard to it's ability to produce a completely ghost-free 3D image. Add in lens shift for HP owners and a full CMS at a new lower price.

watching 3D with zero ghosting and no flicker is very refreshing after seeing a number of the other projectors this year and comparing 3D performance. I also own the Acer 5360 3D DLP, Sony HW30 and JVC RS55, plus had access to the Epson 5010 for quite some time (which is excellent in it's own right since it's a light cannon with great 3D, but still not as good as the W7000).
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post #923 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 12:38 PM
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This is great news. I said a few months ago I was waiting till tax time to make a purchase and looks like it will be just the perfect time.
Benq needs to put "Z" for Zombie in the firmware to prevent any further mixups.
I hope someone out there ordered a bunch of zd201 glasses.
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post #924 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 12:55 PM
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This is good news, but still a few other things to consider...

I was hoping they'd make the torch mode work as in 3D selectable?
Did they ever say if the CW was 4x vs. 6x? It sounds like it is 4x from all the reviews.

FI does not work in 3D but image still looks smooth anyways (DLP motion), right??

Dynamic IRIS is not doing much in 3D, or is it?

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Benq needs to put "Z" for Zombie in the firmware to prevent any further mixups.

That's pretty funny. I agree with Zombie on the beta tester thing, it shouldn't be that way, but it is. It's mostly corporate red tape and disorganization that causes it.


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post #925 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

While I am happy to hear BenQ may be solving their issues I don't like they relied on end users that paid good money for their product to test it.

Shame on BenQ. I am surprised they still have people interested in this unit after all the shenanigans.

If that's the case, shame on every tech manufacturer because that is the status quo for literally all manufacturers these days.

If BenQ is to be blamed for anything, it is not including an easy user-updatable firmware process like most other recent electronics.

And, BenQ should be applauded for fixing the problem instead of simply pretending it does not exist like some other tech companies do (i.e. Apple, Onkyo/Integra).
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post #926 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 01:59 PM
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I could have been the man... lol.

I guess you and I came in as: "close, but no cigar"

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post #927 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post


If that's the case, shame on every tech manufacturer because that is the status quo for literally all manufacturers these days.

If BenQ is to be blamed for anything, it is not including an easy user-updatable firmware process like most other recent electronics.

And, BenQ should be applauded for fixing the problem instead of simply pretending it does not exist like some other tech companies do (i.e. Apple, Onkyo/Integra).

My HW30ES worked out of the box without issue. I know BenQ is not the only one, but it's not like you don't have other options out there. BenQ ruined a lot of prerelease hype by delivering a substandard product. I would understand more if it was the first iteration of some new tech. But come on... they can't even get 1080p mapping correctly over HDMI.

If they finally fixed it... Great. But I still wouldn't buy one unless I could be guaranteed that I would receive the fixed FW on the first unit I receive.

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post #928 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 02:40 PM
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My HW30ES worked out of the box without issue.

Ever hear of Sony's SXRD chronic optical block failure saga (happened to me, even) and resulting successful class action lawsuit?

Oh, and funny enough, unrelated to that issue (but related to the W7000 bug) several Sony SXRD TVs also had issue with resolving 1:1 pixel mapping exposed by reviewers! (required a USB stick firmware upgrade to mailed to you by Sony to remedy problem).

Or how Sony has taken originally advertised features *away* from PS3 owners _years_ after purchasing through forced firmware upgrades for no good reason?

Not to mention Sony's heavy involvment in numerous anti-consumer intrusive DRM schemes.

Yeah, Sony's probably not the best example of consumer-friendly company. You have to look at the company as a whole and not just a single product they released without issue - although if you want to be picky the HW30ES does ghost significantly more than the W7000 in 3D, no matter the firmware revision
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post #929 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 03:04 PM
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Ever hear of Sony's SXRD chronic optical block failure saga (happened to me, even) and resulting successful class action lawsuit?

Oh, and funny enough, unrelated to that issue (but related to the W7000 bug) several Sony SXRD TVs also had issue with resolving 1:1 pixel mapping exposed by reviewers! (required a USB stick firmware upgrade to mailed to you by Sony to remedy problem).

Or how Sony has taken originally advertised features *away* from PS3 owners _years_ after purchasing through forced firmware upgrades for no good reason?

Not to mention Sony's heavy involvment in numerous anti-consumer intrusive DRM schemes.

Yeah, Sony's probably not the best example of consumer-friendly company. You have to look at the company as a whole and not just a single product they released without issue - although if you want to be picky the HW30ES does ghost significantly more than the W7000 in 3D, no matter the firmware revision

I don't see significant ghosting on the Sony. I also don't see RBE. The Sony unit is a better all around unit. You are paying a big price in the quest for a ghost free DLP image not to mention quality DLP link glasses cost a premium. My Sony also has a 3yr warranty compared to BenQ's 1yr. I have had DLP units before. A single chip DLP is not projector heaven.

I am just saying you guys are sure going through a lot grief with the BenQ units.

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post #930 of 3811 Old 04-12-2012, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

I don't see significant ghosting on the Sony. I also don't see RBE. The Sony unit is a better all around unit.

Why is it a better all around unit? To some, it has better motion handling with it's interpolation and no color wheel to cause a rainbow effect. However, it also has lower light output, no ISF modes, not as full featured a CMS, and far more ghosting in 3D.

Perhaps for your use it's better, but for someone else it might be worse. I find it nearly impossible to lay a "best" label on any projector, as they all vary so much in their use. If I'm only watching 1080p24 film content, with no 3D, in a dark room, I think the JVC X30 is the best budget projector there. If I want to watch a lot of sports, or 3D, or in a bright room, I might not think that.

Yes, the 1:1 pixel mapping thing is an issue, but if it's resolved now, it's an issue that is gone and won't come up for anyone down the road, and will be long forgotten when you are still using the projector in 3 years. Given the issues that some companies never fix, I'm OK with someone letting something out with an issue, as long as they fix it ASAP for everyone. Some people think that's too much hassle, and that's fine as well.

Chris Heinonen
Senior Editor, Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, www.hometheaterhifi.com
Displays Editor, AnandTech.com
Contributor, HDGuru.com and Wirecutter.com
ISF Level II Certified Calibrator, ReferenceHomeTheater.com
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