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post #1171 of 3795 Old 05-06-2012, 04:13 PM
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Among DLP Projectors.
Is the extra boost in light when viewing 3D with the Benq w7000, a big differance, that is very easy to see over the Optoma HD33 and Acer H9500BD ?

If you want more light for 3D, is it worth the extra money for the Optoma HD3300 model and it's 200 boost in light over the HD33, or should you just pony up the exta money and go straight to the Benq W7000 over the Hd33 and Acer 9500 when brighter 3D is what your looking for ?
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post #1172 of 3795 Old 05-06-2012, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post








It would be interesting to see a compare between the W7000 and the Optoma 8300 which should have higher contrast.

I was just about settled on the w7000 when I realized that it won't fit my room, so now the optima hd8300 is my next consideration. The problem is theres nothing on this forum, no feedback good or Bad.

Has anyone here seen it?
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post #1173 of 3795 Old 05-06-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i've been clear to point out that no one is going to mistake the W7000 for the RS55 anytime soon.

I haven't measured the contrast on the W7000. I can tell by eye it's better than the Acer 5360 and worse than the Sony HW30 when watching the first 10 minutes of Underworld Evolution. For the majority of content, the W7000 looks good including Sports, F1 racing, animations, HDTV etc.

My main goal with this projector has been for a 3D companion to the RS55. The cheap Acer 5360 showed non-believers that there was a specific front projector technology (DLP) that can handle completely ghost free 3D viewing. But there were a number of shortcomings on this projector including not-so bright 3D (~750-800 lumens), entry quality lens, 720P, no lense shift, no color controls, etc.

The W7000 ~ the low 2k price point fixed all these issues. it's brighter, sharper, has usable color controls and also the sought after lens shift for HP screens. The 3D is the cleanest of all the current models in the tough scenes. It would definitely be nice if it had higher overall contrast.

It would be interesting to see a compare between the W7000 and the Optoma 8300 which should have higher contrast.

Couldn't agree with you more on this point zombie. I have my RS40 for strictly 2D viewing and the W7000 for all of my 3D needs. 3D is mediocre on the JVC and 2D is decent on the Benq. Between the two I have the best of both worlds. I was thinking about selling the RS40 to simplify my setup with an all-in-one approach but the RBE in 2D is too much for me on the W7000. I must be ultra sensitive to RBE because I'll pull up the test pattern in the W7000 menu and all I can think of is "double rainbow, what does it mean?"
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post #1174 of 3795 Old 05-07-2012, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ultra 150 pilot View Post

I was just about settled on the w7000 when I realized that it won't fit my room, so now the optima hd8300 is my next consideration. The problem is theres nothing on this forum, no feedback good or Bad.

Has anyone here seen it?

I demoed the HD83, pt-ae7000u, HD33, and the JVC RS45 together.
For 3d the best was the HD33 as it was a little brighter then the HD83 but the HD83 had better blacks.

The JVC blacks were a little better then the HD83 but it was not that apparent. I could see artifacts while watching batman on the JVC. The motion handling was not smooth and the 3D was not good (flickering and cross talk) compared to the HD83.

Id go with the HD33 and darken the room a little with some roll up blind or something.
OR
Id go with the HD83 with a higher gain screen.
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post #1175 of 3795 Old 05-07-2012, 04:43 AM
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I always thought the hd8300 might give the Benq a run for the money in PQ, but it's not quite as bright, and it is a lot more expensive AFIK. I imagine overall the PQ is going to be similar between these two projectors except for the brightness. As far as the JVC vs. hd8300 goes, I imagine the RS-45 is going to smoke the hd8300 in black levels in certain types of scenes, especially if the RS-45 has the aperture at -15.

The Optoma hd33 and especially the hd3300 (which is brighters still) in comparing to the Benq w7000 should be near the same brightness, the Benq might be a tad brighter, but shouldn't be enough to matter. The hd8300 however isn't as bright as those two cheaper models.

Overall, the Optoma hd33 is also very good at 3D for the price, and it's gotta be the best sub-$1500 one for 3d, and I've seen it briefly but only in 2D (not in 3D). The native on/off for the h33 is around 1,500:1 to 2,500:1 depending on what measurements you believe. The hd83 should be about the same native, but has the DI to make it go further. We do know the Optoma's absolutely have 6x color wheels at least.

The main difference between the hd33 and Benq w7000 will be that the Benq is a bit sharper, Optoma for sure has 6x color wheel (Benq maybe), and the Benq has better blacks because the hd33 has no IRIS as opposed to the Benq or Optoma hd8300 (which does have an IRIS).


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post #1176 of 3795 Old 05-07-2012, 05:08 AM
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RS-45 is going to smoke the hd8300 and the benq w7000 IF you have a very dark room, but if not its not going to be so noticeable.
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post #1177 of 3795 Old 05-07-2012, 02:22 PM
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Who is the best person, at Benq, to speak to about an RMA? It looks like it's finally ok to send it in.
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post #1178 of 3795 Old 05-07-2012, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by trgraphics View Post

Who is the best person, at Benq, to speak to about an RMA? It looks like it's finally ok to send it in.

call their support 800# and ask for 'Sid'.
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post #1179 of 3795 Old 05-07-2012, 10:32 PM
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Zombie and crew - thanks for all of your hard work, working with BenQ to release a firmware fixing HDMI sharpness. My question (and I'm sorry if I missed it):

What will this new firmware officially be labeled? I live in Winnipeg, Canada, and in a few days, I am ordering the pj through a friend who can get me a great deal through his retailer. I'd love to be able to tell him exactly what firmware this must be, just wanna do it all right the first time. Thanks!!

a p a u l l o
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post #1180 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by apaullo View Post

Zombie and crew - thanks for all of your hard work, working with BenQ to release a firmware fixing HDMI sharpness. My question (and I'm sorry if I missed it):

What will this new firmware officially be labeled? I live in Winnipeg, Canada, and in a few days, I am ordering the pj through a friend who can get me a great deal through his retailer. I'd love to be able to tell him exactly what firmware this must be, just wanna do it all right the first time. Thanks!!

Hi, I don't know the exact version, we'll have to wait until one of the first update projectors shows up, hopefully by next week. It should be something higher than 1.20 which was the last known release.
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post #1181 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 09:07 AM
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I am just about to buy a W7000, and have found reading all the firmware fixes quite interesting. Of course I now think: How long do I have to wait to buy one to get one with new firmware given anything currently in stock will at best be 1.2.0.

I tried to ask benq what the firmware update system was for people in Canada, but unfortunately prodinfo.us@benq.com is failing to receive emails, so all I get is bounces. Not very helpful. Maybe someone has a contact at benq to find out why their feedback form and email address isn't working. I would tell them, but the feedback form is broken.

Any recommendations on a screen to get to go with the W7000? I will be able to put the projector back at least 4m, and could perhaps do 5 or even 5.5m. I will have some ambient light, but hopefully not a lot. Being my first projector I have no idea about screens.

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post #1182 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 09:56 AM
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Da-Lite High Power 2.4 gain screen if you care about 3D brightness and want the brightest image. Since the IRIS doesn't seem that configurable until we know Service Menu codes, you may need an ND filter to watch it in 2D mode if you go for bright 3D. A positive gain gray screen might be better since you said some ambient light, but they are generally too expensive IMHO.

Buy the projector first and project onto a wall or sheet to decide how big of a screen you prefer, that is what I'd do anyhow.


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post #1183 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 11:37 AM
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Well based on a size calculator I found, if I have the projector at 4.3m, then it can do between 80 and 120" screen size, which sounds pretty good. I think I could be willing to only do 3D in the evening when light isn't a concern, or get better curtains.

How bright should the image be? The calculator claims the w7000 (in 2D mode I suspect) would be 193 nits (whatever those are) if placed at 4.3m set to 1.5x zoom at 120" screen with a 2.4 gain screen. A quick read of wikipedia seems to indicate a typical HDTV will be in the 400 to 1000 nits range, and a computer monitor in the 200 to 300 range. That certainly sounds like 193 should be acceptable as long as there isn't direct sun in the room.

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post #1184 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 11:51 AM
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You only get 2.4 gain if you have the projector mounted right next to your head. Expect 1.5 to 2.0 gain from most mounting locations. I would calculate based it on 1.8 gain without knowing your exact mounting height and spot.

In 2D, it would be WAY too bright, but since you have some ambient light, it shouldn't blind you too badly. In 3D, it will still be very bright but also just about right.

We use foot lamberts in here (abbreviated by fL). 12 fL to 16 fL is the standard brightness in a fully darkened room (14 fL is official). In reality, it depends on user preferences and the room as well. Most people are not too bothered by it being too bright until the image gets over 20 fL, and most of us can take it even at 25 fL by turning down contrast and brightness a bit, but it's still too bright. Expect in 3D it will be 12 fL to 16 fL on a 110" to 120" image, but expect 2d to be 30+ fL. That is why an ND filter will probably be needed for 2D.

For mounting space, don't forget to add the size of the projector from front to back (since the lens is in the front) to your calculations if you are short on room length, as well as the cabling space needed behind the projector (generally at least 4" for cabling space, sometimes more).


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post #1185 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 12:29 PM
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Hi Guys
My W7000 came yesterday and before even spending much time tweaking the image beyond a couple clicks on tint, I can already say I like the picture a lot compared to my just calibrated again yesterday by UMR, JVC RS50. The W7000 came right after he left. Too bad ....I was telling him how Zombie has been raving about the "no flicker" aspect, in addition to no ghosting, and he said he was super sensitive and had yet to see any system that didn't flicker....to him.

It is very first firmware 1.0. Seems sharp on HDMI to point but something kind of lacking. Not as sharp as the JVC. Please tell me HDMI sharpness issue was there in 1.0? I got the impression at some point it was good, then they changed & it became bad?

Luckily my lens seems to be able to produce well defined pixels over large majority of the screen when center is good.

But we both got a great look with the Darbee unit on the JVC and he was really impressed with the "DLP" look it gave to LCOS, that sharpness it lacked in comparison. You can see his observations here http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=1909 With a dialed in JVC, a High Power screen and the Darblet in line, holy bleep Batman!!!!

He also remarked he wasn't sure how "DLP" would look with the Darbee Vision as it was already so sharp. While I have only scratched the surface in 2D in a couple hours experimenting so far. DLP ROCKS with the unit! I can only imagine with 3D and my 8.5' wide 16x9AR 2.8 HP how great it should look with all the lumens.

The Darblet seems to actually help with the black level look and detail of the W7000, which only makes sense because of its incredible contrast and sharpness enhancement capabilities. Interscene contrast....again holy bleep!!

One thing though....help please..... Did anyone have trouble getting that protective little plastic strip on top at back of projector started so you could peel it? Really stuck on both ends and can't get with fingernails. Afraid to use a knife or blade for fear of scratching.
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post #1186 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 12:31 PM
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Well my living room is L shaped, so I have quite a bit of room behind where I want to put the projector, I just can't put it so far back that the wall next to it starts to block the light from it.

So like this is what I plan to do:

W = window
S = screen
PJ = projector


Code:
<----------------26'------------>
  +------------------------------+--------
+-+      ^                       |
|        |                       |
W S      |                       |
| S     18'                      |
W S      |         >PJ                        
| S      |        ----------------   -----
W S      |            (hallway)
|        |        +--------------+
+-+      v        |              |
  +---------------+              +--------
  <------14'----->

Len Sorensen
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post #1187 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post


It is very first firmware 1.0. Seems sharp on HDMI to point but something kind of lacking. Not as sharp as the JVC.

Sounds good overall, but it would have been easier to wait to order until they get the PJ's in stock with the newer firmware. All previous units have the HDMI mapping issue AFIK.

Just wait another week or two before contacting Benq, then plan to ship to Benq for the updated Firmware, and you should be all set.

The reason it isn't as sharp as your JVC is probably because of the pixel mapping issue. It will probably be as sharp or even a little sharper after the fact. This should also re-enforce to people just how sharp JVC's really are when they have good convergence. I am amazed to this day at the sharpness of my JVC compared to many DLP's I've owned, it's sharper than most.


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post #1188 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 02:44 PM
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I thought it might ship from this supplier's stock after BenQ shipped new ones, judging from original estimate. But I did it there due to the interest free finance. Didn't expect my G15 to up and have a problem. Can't sink any money into it and both xenon lamps have a lot of hours. They are bank to buy....still $1,100 from JVC or $550 from Atlas Specialty to relamp if you supply the module.

I hope to be able to set up appointment to be able to drive the unit down to their service center only about 40 miles away and have lunch or just wait while they do it. Can't take long. Don't want to ship it again.

Oh so that's what rainbows look like....have seen some now in 3D if I do the darting eyes trick. Not so much without. The Darbee unit does seem to have the same effects in 3D as to more sharpness and pop to your individual liking, same as in 2D

I might have gone overboard above about the blacks' baseline level. They stay kind of the same but the inter-scene contrast does seem to increase as the hi lights are brought out more as the effect is increased. Have only been watching the green world of Avatar for last 30 minutes for my first 3D viewing on it. No ghosting is correct. I also don't believe I see flicker.
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post #1189 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 02:59 PM
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My fixed W7000 arrived today so I will hook it up tonight and test quickly. Probably can't calibrate it for another day or two. Will calibrate in 3D as well since I have a new pattern generator for doing that.

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post #1190 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Hi Guys
My W7000 came yesterday and before even spending much time tweaking the image beyond a couple clicks on tint, I can already say I like the picture a lot compared to my just calibrated again yesterday by UMR, JVC RS50. The W7000 came right after he left. Too bad ....I was telling him how Zombie has been raving about the "no flicker" aspect, in addition to no ghosting, and he said he was super sensitive and had yet to see any system that didn't flicker....to him.

It is very first firmware 1.0. Seems sharp on HDMI to point but something kind of lacking. Not as sharp as the JVC. Please tell me HDMI sharpness issue was there in 1.0? I got the impression at some point it was good, then they changed & it became bad?

Luckily my lens seems to be able to produce well defined pixels over large majority of the screen when center is good.

But we both got a great look with the Darbee unit on the JVC and he was really impressed with the "DLP" look it gave to LCOS, that sharpness it lacked in comparison. You can see his observations here http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=1909 With a dialed in JVC, a High Power screen and the Darblet in line, holy bleep Batman!!!!

He also remarked he wasn't sure how "DLP" would look with the Darbee Vision as it was already so sharp. While I have only scratched the surface in 2D in a couple hours experimenting so far. DLP ROCKS with the unit! I can only imagine with 3D and my 8.5' wide 16x9AR 2.8 HP how great it should look with all the lumens.

The Darblet seems to actually help with the black level look and detail of the W7000, which only makes sense because of its incredible contrast and sharpness enhancement capabilities. Interscene contrast....again holy bleep!!

Ron, that's a shame Jeff didn't get a chance to see the W7000 in action. I am highly sensitive to the flicker as well, and the W7000 is noticeably better to my eyes vs. the JVC and even the Sony and Epson.

The 1.0 definitely had the 1:1 mapping bug, wait until you see it after the firmware update... much better.

I have to be honest, i'm still a little skeptical about the Darbee unit. I was talking about it with Mark for a while when it was first announced. My initial thought is that I want the purest signal coming from my BD's without any 'witchcraft' in between manipulating the signal. I have to imagine they are doing some kind of sharpening or edge enhancement to create such an impression for those that have seen it in person.

now I have to get one and check it out since Jeff (who I imagine is somewhat of a purist) didn't trash it. It will be interesting to see how it compares with the RS55 (e-shift off + Darby) vs. straight e-shift which I think looks excellent on my screen without any sense of the image being processed.
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post #1191 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

My fixed W7000 arrived today so I will hook it up tonight and test quickly. Probably can't calibrate it for another day or two. Will calibrate in 3D as well since I have a new pattern generator for doing that.

Chris, can you let us know the software version? Mine was an odd beta code, didn't fall in line with the 1.0, 1.20, etc. curious to hear your thoughts of the post-hdmi fix.
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post #1192 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Ron, that's a shame Jeff didn't get a chance to see the W7000 in action. I am highly sensitive to the flicker as well, and the W7000 is noticeably better to my eyes vs. the JVC and even the Sony and Epson.

The 1.0 definitely had the 1:1 mapping bug, wait until you see it after the firmware update... much better.

I have to be honest, i'm still a little skeptical about the Darbee unit. I was talking about it with Mark for a while when it was first announced. My initial thought is that I want the purest signal coming from my BD's without any 'witchcraft' in between manipulating the signal. I have to imagine they are doing some kind of sharpening or edge enhancement to create such an impression for those that have seen it in person.

now I have to get one and check it out since Jeff (who I imagine is somewhat of a purist) didn't trash it. It will be interesting to see how it compares with the RS55 (e-shift off + Darby) vs. straight e-shift which I think looks excellent on my screen without any sense of the image being processed.

Woohooo!! That is great to know because like you first thought, it does look sharp as hell in 3D. I moved closer to the 8.5' Hi Power maybe 10 feet back, big image and it looks just great. I can see how a smaller display could cause one to miss, but at that level of HT projector review on a hot new 3D projector, you still would not give a pass for them missing. Mix in a few test patterns for pete's sake.

OK another 30 minutes on Avatar and A/B ing with Darbee. It looks really, really good. This DLP unit takes higher levels of effect easily where you would not go that high with the RS50 it would be too much. At whatever level, in whichever mode you prefer, once you are there and watching, kick it to off and there's just no way you leave it there.

Jason you have to leave any past experience, pre-conceptions and thoughts about "edge enhancement" behind with this technology. It's not there and that's not how they achieve it. Far more sophisticated. You're going to love it.
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post #1193 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 08:01 PM
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I have firmware 0.01 on it so still beta. Will test tomorrow for mapping issue.

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post #1194 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

I have firmware 0.01 on it so still beta. Will test tomorrow for mapping issue.

that's what mine said as well, so we are looking at the same firmware. let us know what you think after you run your tests.
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post #1195 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 09:37 PM
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i just sent mine off today to hopefully get the new firmware put on. i was on 1.0 to begin with. i talked to 2 different techs, and both seemed clueless about the upcoming firmware; i basically had to say that my hdmi image was fugly to get the tech to allow an rma, so hopefully it all gets taken care of.
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post #1196 of 3795 Old 05-08-2012, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flyingmunkey View Post

i just sent mine off today to hopefully get the new firmware put on. i was on 1.0 to begin with. i talked to 2 different techs, and both seemed clueless about the upcoming firmware; i basically had to say that my hdmi image was fugly to get the tech to allow an rma, so hopefully it all gets taken care of.

I'll PM you the tech to email/call @ BQ who is well aware of the updated firmware. let him know your RMA # and that you are sending it in for the HDMI mapping fix.
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post #1197 of 3795 Old 05-09-2012, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I'll PM you the tech to email/call @ BQ who is well aware of the updated firmware. let him know your RMA # and that you are sending it in for the HDMI mapping fix.

Zombie10k can you please also ask the tech to send the latest firmware to Benq Europe so they also have it on their systems.

Ill try and get an email address for one of the tech's here if you like.

We would all like to know the firmware version number as well. The latest they had was released in April, v1.0.2

ps: thanks so much for all your hard work. Do you have a blog? if not you should
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post #1198 of 3795 Old 05-09-2012, 02:56 AM
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Don't think the beta firmware addressing the HDMI blur issue has been made official yet.

Have a pal checked with BenQ support in Taiwan and it seems none knows about any new firmware release for the W7000.
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post #1199 of 3795 Old 05-09-2012, 07:25 AM
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Quick test this AM: 1:1 over HDMI works correctly now, but with a high resolution multiburst, while 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 are handled correctly, there is a ton of image noise and static with an RGB signal. I'll test more later, but I wouldn't send RGB to the projector anymore with this issue.

Correction: With HDMI set to PC, then RGB is fine, and the high resolution multibursts have much better color resolution than either 422 or 444. Also, you get WTW and BTB which you can't get with HDMI and YCbCr. So if I were to configure this, I'd send it RGB (video levels) and use PC mode for the HDMI input. I also find with Sharpness at 5 I get a little green fringing and with it at 4 I get red fringing. So there is no ideal sharpness I can find with the controls, but that might be due to the lens and not the electronics. It can do the 1 pixel resolution, this is totally different.

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post #1200 of 3795 Old 05-09-2012, 09:00 AM
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RS-45 is going to smoke the hd8300 and the benq w7000 IF you have a very dark room, but if not its not going to be so noticeable.

Actually it will be quite noticeable. In fact it would actually be more appropriate to say the difference is profound.

I have an RS35 projector in my room. I run it with the iris fully open in low lamp. My RS35 measures about half the contrast ratio of the X30 I just reviewed and the difference in black levels between my RS35 and the W7000 I'm reviewing is anything but subtle. The only time you may not notice it is in very bright sequences with lots of bright material and some black. But if the movie has anything dark at all, there is a substantial difference that is going to be VERY noticeable.

As I've said before, blacks are not the BenQ's strong point. But it has a lot going for it in other areas. But don't let anyone convince you that this thing has anything approaching good contrast performance.

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