Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 3824 Old 05-22-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by imblind View Post

Wow, he got you mad enough to have you reenact both conversations here!

Yes, he did.
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post #1352 of 3824 Old 05-23-2012, 07:59 AM
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I received my W7000 about 2 weeks ago and as with everyone else I have the focus (pixel mapping) issue. I was replacing a W5000 which was razor sharp corner to corner and was obviously disappointed with the image. Everything else is fine, much better CR than the W5000 and much brighter. I have to use the economy setting on the lamp (which isn't that much different to the standard setting, certainly when compared to the difference on the W5000's settings. I'm using a 120" wide audio transparent screen with a 1:1 gain in a light controlled room and the images just pop.

Over the last 30 hours of usage I've noticed an improvement in the sharpness, especially at the top portion of the screen which is now almost perfectly sharp, however, the bottom is still blurry - not as much as when the unit was new, but definitely sharper.

I remember the W5000 did not have the perfect image at the beginning but after about 50-60 hours it settled in and gave me about 8,000 hours of great viewing. Could this be the solution, just let the thing settle in, like running in a car. No, I don't think so either, just wishful thinking.
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post #1353 of 3824 Old 05-23-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

I talk to Sid yesterday and sent out my 3rd W7000 for the firmware upgrade today.

I did find the blacks a lot blacker in my refurbished third W7000 from my very first new W7000 that I received last Dec.

I received my W7000 that I sent in to be updated last week back today. I opened the shipping box and they sent me a brand new W7000 with the 1.03 firmware update. Benq really knows how to treat there customers right. I tested at my place of business on the back of an old movie poster and in daylight the picture seems very sharp. I will test more in the next couple of day in my home movie theater. I did find one thing different compared to the old firmware. The clarity control only goes from 1 to 4. Here are some pictures from the menu.
LL
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post #1354 of 3824 Old 05-23-2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

I received my W7000 that I sent in to be updated last week back today. I opened the shipping box and they sent me a brand new W7000 with the 1.03 firmware update. Benq really knows how to treat there customers right. I tested at my place of business on the back of an old movie poster and in daylight the picture seems very sharp. I will test more in the next couple of day in my home movie theater. I did find one thing different compared to the old firmware. The clarity control only goes from 1 to 4. Here are some pictures from the menu.

I received mine, a week ago and the box is writting:

Rev: 00-100
Mfg date: December 2011
firmware: 1.00-4

Where they found this piece. ? From a warewouse in Alaska ?
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post #1355 of 3824 Old 05-24-2012, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

I received my W7000 that I sent in to be updated last week back today. I opened the shipping box and they sent me a brand new W7000 with the 1.03 firmware update. Benq really knows how to treat there customers right. I tested at my place of business on the back of an old movie poster and in daylight the picture seems very sharp. I will test more in the next couple of day in my home movie theater. I did find one thing different compared to the old firmware. The clarity control only goes from 1 to 4. Here are some pictures from the menu.

I checked the projector last night and I found out that it is a refurbished one that was built in Dec. 2011. It looked brand new when I opened it yesterday. I watched tron legacy last night and found the picture even sharper than my last w7000. The blacks look the same. I'm very happy with the new firmware and hopefully this will be my last w7000 that I keep.
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post #1356 of 3824 Old 05-24-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

I checked the projector last night and I found out that it is a refurbished one that was built in Dec. 2011. It looked brand new when I opened it yesterday. I watched tron legacy last night and found the picture even sharper than my last w7000. The blacks look the same. I'm very happy with the new firmware and hopefully this will be my last w7000 that I keep.

svosteve, how are you able to know it's a refurb? is there a specific marking to look for?
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post #1357 of 3824 Old 05-24-2012, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quack724 View Post

svosteve, how are you able to know it's a refurb? is there a specific marking to look for?

It has a small refurbish sticker on the bottom of the unit where the built date and serial number is.
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post #1358 of 3824 Old 05-24-2012, 06:12 PM
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Has anyone tried the new benq 3d Glasses 2. They are smaller, lighter and they fold. Apparently they are comfortable and see for about $90

http://www.benq.ca/product/projector/3dglasses2

I'm wondering if I should get these or the Acer's when I order my w7000.
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post #1359 of 3824 Old 05-24-2012, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppydg68 View Post

Has anyone tried the new benq 3d Glasses 2. They are smaller, lighter and they fold. Apparently they are comfortable and see for about $90

http://www.benq.ca/product/projector/3dglasses2

I'm wondering if I should get these or the Acer's when I order my w7000.

except from design, weight, differ on something else;. ? (better color/picture. ?)
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post #1360 of 3824 Old 05-24-2012, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppydg68 View Post

Has anyone tried the new benq 3d Glasses 2. They are smaller, lighter and they fold. Apparently they are comfortable and see for about $90

http://www.benq.ca/product/projector/3dglasses2

I'm wondering if I should get these or the Acer's when I order my w7000.

I've been looking for these to add to my DLP glasses shootout. I'll order a pair next week and add impressions to the mini-shootout page in my signature. I have 5-6 different kinds of DLP glasses including the original BQ's and the excellent ZD201's.

The reason the ZD201 (black version of the Acer glasses) are so good is that they block out all of the red flash DLP Link signal equally from both eyes. All other glasses I tested leaked some red flash on the right eye, including the original BQ's. I'll see if these new models are the same or better.
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post #1361 of 3824 Old 05-25-2012, 04:19 PM
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Benq told us today that the new firmware projector are now ready to ship.

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post #1362 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 04:31 AM
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Bad news for me.
Now with 1.03 firmware i saw RBE in white subtitles and in the movies when the picture has moving object in white color on a black background.

The picture also appears more contrast i think and a litlle more red in cinema mode.
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post #1363 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemos View Post

Bad news for me.
Now with 1.03 firmware i saw RBE in white subtitles and in the movies when the picture has moving object in white color on a black background.

The picture also appears more contrast i think and a litlle more red in cinema mode.

RBE will vary in different movies, as well as you will may see a little more RBE in 24p vs. 60hz (assuming like other DLP's the Benq is playing 24p at 48hz instead of 5:5 pulldown in 24p mode, hence playing at 48hz instead of 120hz or even 60hz).

It could also just be they modified the color table, if they did then you may be getting a slightly brighter image. A brighter image will cause more RBE for certain. There would be no difference otherwise in RBE from firmware versions, not unless the default color wheel speed was changed (very unlikely).


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post #1364 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

RBE will vary in different movies, as well as you will may see a little more RBE in 24p vs. 60hz (assuming like other DLP's the Benq is playing 24p at 48hz instead of 5:5 pulldown in 24p mode, hence playing at 48hz instead of 120hz or even 60hz).

It could also just be they modified the color table, if they did then you may be getting a slightly brighter image. A brighter image will cause more RBE for certain. There would be no difference otherwise in RBE from firmware versions, not unless the default color wheel speed was changed (very unlikely).

I looked at service menu and the CW multipler (color weel speed) is 2X.
I switched το 3Χ (there is no other option, only 2x-3x) and it is ok now.

I also switched the lamp waveform from 2, to 4 because at 2X color speed the lamp waveform was 4. if you leave it in 2, the white was a little green.

When the wheel speed is in 2x (firmware 1.03) the lamp waveform is at 4, but when i change the speed to 3x, the lamp waveform automatically changes to 2.
I switched manually the lamp waveform to 4 and now i have the same color appearance.

With new firm 1.03 the images in not brighter, i think is more darker. Maybe they closed the iris a litlle. In cinema mode i think is : min=9 max=58
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post #1365 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemos View Post

I looked at service menu and now the CW multipler (color weel speed) is 2X.
I switched το 3Χ (there is no other option, only 2x-3x) and it is ok now.

When the wheel speed is in 2x (firmware 1.03) the lamp waveform is at 4, but when i change the speed to 3x, the lamp waveform automatically changes to 2.
I switched manually the lamp waveform to 4 and now i have the same color appearance.

Wait, so you guys finally got into the service menu?
You should post the directions for others.

Why would they slow the default color wheel speed in the service menu between firmware updates?


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post #1366 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Wait, so you guys finally got into the service menu?
You should post the directions for others.

Why would they slow the default color wheel speed in the service menu between firmware updates?

I dont know.
Maybe for lower temperature, noise, mechanical wear, etc.
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post #1367 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 06:16 PM
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secret service menu:

1) press "menu".
2) go to info tab.
3) press up-down, up-down, up-down (with arrows on the remote control)
4) press "enter"
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post #1368 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The first time you went into the service menu, was it set to 3x or did you change it yourself BEFORE updating the firmware, then after you updated the firmware it reverted?

BTW, all indications of the service menu settings are that this projector has the same speed color wheel as the Benq w6000, which was presumably 4x according to most. The reason I say this is because this is exactly the same setting that was in the Benq w6000 menu. So the 3x vs. 2x setting does not mean 6x/4x AFIK. If this were true, then it would mean the w6000 was actually capable of 6x speeds as well (hmmm, too bad reviewers are so incompetent at this stuff).

A projector's color wheel slows down when it goes from 60hz to 48hz (24p mode), that 2x/3x mode is presumably just changing the pulldown so that the wheel can stay at 60hz speeds even in 24p mode??

I think 2x means 48hz, and 3x means 72hz, that is my guess anyways. You could sort of refer to this color wheel in 24p mode then as an ALWAYS near-4x color wheel, since technically it doesn't have to be slowed down in 48hz mode. This is a very minor difference though and isn't as good as a 6x wheel. Now this is AFIK, I cannot be 100% sure of all this.

My first firmware was 1.00-4
Yesterday the benq service support they put in my benq the 1.03

Today I tried a few minutes to find the service menu because I saw rbe.

This is my first projector, and also for the first time i see how look like the secret service menu.

I hope people who are knowledgeable of benq menu, help us for better settings.


also should mention that at 60hz, and 24hz, from my htpc the wheel speed was 2x. Only in the dynamic mode the wheel speed was 3X.
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post #1369 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

There's no way the actual color wheel speed is as slow as the Acer 5360. The RBE on the Acer is much more noticeable than it is on the W7000.

The color wheel on the Acer 5360 is only 3X, and the w6000/w7000 is presumably 4x. The Acer 5360 in 2D and 24p mode would be about a 2.4x color wheel speed vs. 3x speeds in 3D and in 60hz content, but the w6000/w7000 in 24p mode using the 3x setting would be 4x regardless if 24p or 60hz/120hz (3d).

There are two reasons people see less RBE in 3D, one is because it is dimmer, the other is presumably because the CW is at full speed and not slowing down like in 24p mode which is how most people watch their 2D movies. So I'm not arguing that the w6000/w7000 color wheel is the same as the h5360 (no matter what, the w7000 CW is faster), but it is presumably a 4x wheel. BTW, there is a good visible difference between a 3x and a 4x color wheel, as that is the majority of where a good number of RBE sensitive folk find comfort in the 4x wheel. However, as a super-sensitive person, I prefer a 5x or 6x wheel.

Again, all this AFIK, if someone with a more solid understanding of these settings and how CW speeds are affected by HZ and pulldowns in these newer DLP's can chime in, then please do.


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post #1370 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I can still see RBE with the 6x Marantz 11S2 that I demo'd and almost bought last year. Same with the LED projectors, although not sure what 'speed' they are supposed to be. I would need a 3 Chip DLP for long 2D viewing sessions.

The bit of RBE I see in 2D isn't bad, it dropped off considerably after the first 100 hours on the lamp, but still measuring ~ 1500 @ D65 in user mode one. This can light up the HP with a number of lights on in the room.

The 3D performance is the primary strength of this projector. I can watch 3D for hours on the W7000 since the refresh rate of the glasses is excellent, nice and solid.
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post #1371 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 07:20 PM
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RBE testing is VERY tricky, you need both projectors in the same room with the same source at the same calibrated fL, otherwise it's a pop shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nemos View Post

also should mention that at 60hz, and 24hz, from my htpc the wheel speed was 2x. Only in the dynamic mode the wheel speed was 3X.

Only in dynamic mode, hmmm. Does dynamic mode have FI on by default, I don't get it.

Here is another test using a Bluray player, change the setting to 2x from the Benq, now switch from 60hz to 24p in your bluray player and listen closely to the CW change speeds as you jump from 60hz to 24p. Now go in and change the setting from 2x to 3x on the Benq, then do the same and listen again while switching your Bluray player from 60hz to 24p. Did it sound exactly the same, or was there a different sound. Is the CW the same noise in 60hz to 24p after you enable the 3x setting?


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post #1372 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Since everyone is going to see something different, I don't see a valid way of objectively measuring it.

The advice remains for any single chip DLP, see it in person to find out if it bothers you or not. This is one thing that's impossible to measure or put a number on, it's been the topic of several thread wars over the last few years.
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post #1373 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 07:32 PM
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It is hard to find one to see, that is good if you can, but even then... I have never seen a Benq w7000 setup anywhere yet, and I've seen plenty of w6000's. Seeing it in person is also a bad way to measure RBE, it so hugely depends on calibrated fL. As little as a 20% difference in brightness can increase the visible RBE by as much as double. At double the brightness, someone coiuld see 5x more RBE than at normal 12-16 fL.

Knowing the speed is the main factor and all that really matters, only a person that REALLY knew what they were doing could even determine if the RBE was affecting them at a proper calibrated fL (now that said, if you find a showroom where it is calibrated, that might be a valid test, but it could be too dark and fool you). Every 4x color wheel projector I have seen has had almost the same RBE (the only difference is the Native On/Off) or if the number of segments changes (like the Pro8200 has 7 segs instead of 6).

Knowing the CW speed is all I need to know, so that if someone asks me "Does the w7000 have less RBE than the Mits hc4000", then I can say definitely yes or no.


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post #1374 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

RBE testing is VERY tricky, you need both projectors in the same room with the same source at the same calibrated fL, otherwise it's a pop shot.



Only in dynamic mode, hmmm. Does dynamic mode have FI on by default, I don't get it.

Here is another test using a Bluray player, change the setting to 2x from the Benq, now switch from 60hz to 24p in your bluray player and listen closely to the CW change speeds as you jump from 60hz to 24p. Now go in and change the setting from 2x to 3x on the Benq, then do the same and listen again while switching your Bluray player from 60hz to 24p. Did it sound exactly the same, or was there a different sound. Is the CW the same noise in 60hz to 24p after you enable the 3x setting?

I dont have bluray player, but i can try with htpc.
First at 24hz and then at 60hz.

But all ready notice with 3x speed, the rbe is not exist any more.
Unfortunately, I could not get earlier in the service menu to see if the speed was 2x, with the previous firmware.
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post #1375 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 07:45 PM
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Here is an easier test to keep it less confusing.

The w6000 had a semi-loud color wheel (assuming the w7000 was the same), so if while in 60hz mode the difference between setting the CW in the SM to 2x and 3x while ONLY in 60hz mode is hugely different, then this indicates the color wheel speed is vastly changing speeds even in 60hz mode. Now we'd still have to assume that the 2x setting is the MFR default and this meant 2x-120hz/4x-60hz (possibly). Another test is to get a camera with a super freaking fast shutter speed, although I forgot how to do that test, would have to look in the forums.

If I had one on me, I would know within 15 minutes of testing if it were 6x or 4x. Smackrabbit thinks it was 4x and he is a pretty rigorous tester, that is one reason I have my doubts. If anyone has an older 4x DLP to side-by-side, that would be good, but you need a light meter to get them at relatively the same On/Off and EXACTLY the same fL, otherwise the test will be invalid.


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post #1376 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Knowing the CW speed is all I need to know, so that if someone asks me "Does the w7000 have less RBE than the Mits hc4000", then I can say definitely yes or no.

not sure I agree. The # of segments / pattern also affects the potential RBE, not just the CW speed.
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post #1377 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 07:50 PM
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What are you disagreeing with (and why), I already made that distinction above (see quote below).
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Every 4x color wheel projector I have seen has had almost the same RBE (the only difference is the Native On/Off) or if the number of segments changes (like the Pro8200 has 7 segs instead of 6).

--------------------
Actually with modern HT projectors they NOW mostly all have the same number of segs given a specific CW speed (4x - 6 seg for instance) unless they are a crossover projector. The Pro8200 is the only modern home theater projector with a 4x wheel with 7 segments that I know of, although even then it is partially a crossover projector (it has business features like extra inputs and built-in speakers).


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post #1378 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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The topic is beyond subjective, no one is going to be breaking out high speed cameras, etc.

Trying to decipher items in the service menu without further knowledge from BQ engineering isn't going to answer much. It might be easier to hack the 9500 firmware.

I'd recommend seeing it person. Most dealers have the 4 hour policy that should be plenty of time to see if RBE is going to affect the viewer.
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post #1379 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 08:02 PM
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Knowing the color wheel speed is NOT subjective, the other tests that have been suggested for this are subjective.

It took me 200 hours to figure out if I was too sensitive to stand the Mits hc4000 at 4x (I owned it for 500 hours), it is not a simple thing someone can do in 4 hours, unless they know their sensitivity to 4x already over time or have a lot of experience with DLP's. The problem is also brightness, they need to get the PJ at 16 fL or below to test for RBE, otherwise so many are going to be returning the PJ unnecessarily.

I have many PM's telling me from the Mits hc4000 users that saw rainbows (or other DLP recommendations), "hey code, I'm almost up to my return policy and I just don't know what to do as I see them occassionally". At least half didn't have to return the PJ once I told them they were watching the image too bright. I could take a 4x color wheel if I absolutely had to, but I'd never buy a projector without knowing the CW speed. I just would have to turn down the brightness to maybe sub-14 fL.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #1380 of 3824 Old 05-26-2012, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not arguing that it's 6x vs. the reported 4x, etc. I could still some RBE on the 6x 11S2 that I demo'd last year. I think those sensitive to it are always going to see it.

I have asked BQ, but haven't heard back on this particular question. Now that the firmware is cooked, I am going to ask again since I understand it's an important selling point for those sensitive to RBE.

you know your sensitive to it, so in 4 hours, it should be easy to know if it's for you or not.
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