JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 10:42 AM
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Jason -- are you going to update the first page of this thread with the Epson 5010 information? It would be interesting to see how the Epson fares in each category you used to compare the others.
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post #902 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 12:18 PM
 
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He will. But for some uncomprehensionable reason let's his professional responsibilites and need to catch some occasional shut eye time, hasn't had time to do it yet. Go figure.
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post #903 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

He will. But for some uncomprehensionable reason let's his professional responsibilites and need to catch some occasional shut eye time, hasn't had time to do it yet. Go figure.

Are you saying he's letting his job get in the way of his dreams? Always follow your passions.
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post #904 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Jason -- are you going to update the first page of this thread with the Epson 5010 information? It would be interesting to see how the Epson fares in each category you used to compare the others.

I am definitely going to update the first page with the rest of the 5010 information. I wanted to get the ghosting photos up as soon as possible for a few members who were on the fence on the 3D performance.

I know you are a big fan of the Acer and will give it plenty of credit since it started my pursuit for a good 1080P 3D projector. I didn't see ghosting firsthand until my first RS40. The 5010 feels like a next generation projector even though it's Epson's first attempt at 3D. They have successfully trumped the other projectors by a factor of 2 when it comes to 3D lumens.

They also did a good job at harnessing crosstalk. Sammy's and FD5 were good tests for crosstalk, and both look great on the 5010. It's sharp in 3D and has nice color in torch mode (after I made some adjustments). I'd like to see them turn on the FI and DI in 3D mode since there is plenty of lumens on the HP.

I'll try to get the info finished by the weekend.


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post #905 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I am definitely going to update the first page with the rest of the 5010 information. I wanted to get the ghosting photos up as soon as possible for a few members who were on the fence on the 3D performance.

I know you are a big fan of the Acer and will give it plenty of credit since it started my pursuit for a good 1080P 3D projector. I didn't see ghosting firsthand until my first RS40. The 5010 feels like a next generation projector even though it's Epson's first attempt at 3D. They have successfully trumped the other projectors by a factor of 2 when it comes to 3D lumens.

They also did a good job at harnessing crosstalk. Sammy's and FD5 were good tests for crosstalk, and both look great on the 5010. It's sharp in 3D and has nice color in torch mode (after I made some adjustments). I'd like to see them turn on the FI and DI in 3D mode since there is plenty of lumens on the HP.

I'll try to get the info finished by the weekend.

Thanks. Your endorsement of the Epson sure has me interested and I'm sure lots of others as well.
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post #906 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I think the color tint and brightness is about the same on the Epsons vs. the MV3D's. For some reason, I like the Epson glasses and the first factory glasses I would wear vs. reaching for the MV3D's.

The IR Receiver that ships with the MV3D kit works fine with the built in emitter on the 5010. I just put the receiver in the front of the projector and it sync's up fine. I haven't been able to tune the MV3D's as well as I'd like on the 5010, I might need to update the firmware on the receiver box first.

I thought the emitter for the 5010 is optional?
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post #907 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

I thought the emitter for the 5010 is optional?

it appears they have an option for an external emitter, but there is indeed an IR emitter built in that works excellent (better than the external emitter on the HW30). All I did was place the IR receiver of the MV3D in front of the lens area and got 5 'bars' of signal strength on the MV3D transmitter.


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post #908 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

I thought the emitter for the 5010 is optional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

it appears they have an option for an external emitter, but there is indeed an IR emitter built in that works excellent (better than the external emitter on the HW30). All I did was place the IR receiver of the MV3D in front of the lens area and got 5 'bars' of signal strength on the MV3D transmitter.

The 5010's external IR emitter dongle (connected via RJ45 on the back) is optional (not included) and meant for cases where the pj's front firing emitter may be shielded, ie: in a hushbox. If you plug in an external emitter, that apparently shuts off the builtin emitter.

The MV3D (and Optoma) glasses receive only a RF signal from their RF transmitter. The MV transmitter can utilize a Vesa mini-din plug directly, such as with the JVC projectors. In other cases where a mini-din is not provided, the MV "kit" includes a little IR reciever that can capture virtually any IR emitter, then retransmit using the RF transmitter. Using the IR capture device it is possible to use both the MV RF glasses plus any other IR glasses you may also want to use at the same time.

For the projectors with RJ45 ports, there have been discussions about building a cable to tap into the emitter port directly, in the same fashion as with the JVC.

Go see Jason's "JVC / Monster Vision 3D Splitter cable" post (included on his sig) for an example of a splitter cable he built for the JVC setup in order to use both IR and RF glasses. You'll see the MV RF transmitter there.


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. Early project info. Needs update with final results.
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post #909 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 04:56 PM
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Thought that I would add my 3D experience to this. First I am not a 3D guy, but read so many complaints about the RS45, that I decided to see what 3D looks like on this projector.

Projector RS45
Screen Screen Inovations Enlightor 4K, 106" diagonal 1.78
Movie, Harry Potter, The Deathly Hallows Part II
Glasses, JVC new and last years JVC glasses

After all of the complaints, I expected to see a lot of ghosting. That was not the case. In watching the movie (not pausing) I did not see any ghosting in this movie. This makes me wonder just how much the screen effects ghosting. Are those with lower gain screens not going to see as much ghosting. Also the movie was nice and bright on my screen with about 70 hours on the lamp.

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post #910 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Thought that I would add my 3D experience to this. First I am not a 3D guy, but read so many complaints about the RS45, that I decided to see what 3D looks like on this projector.

Projector RS45
Screen Screen Inovations Enlightor 4K, 106" diagonal 1.78
Movie, Harry Potter, The Deathly Hallows Part II
Glasses, JVC new and last years JVC glasses

After all of the complaints, I expected to see a lot of ghosting. That was not the case. In watching the movie (not pausing) I did not see any ghosting in this movie. This makes me wonder just how much the screen effects ghosting. Are those with lower gain screens not going to see as much ghosting. Also the movie was nice and bright on my screen with about 70 hours on the lamp.

In movies that are darker the ghosting isn't as apparent. For example there wasn't much ghosting going on watching Polar Express but when you start watching other movies with scenes where dark objects were next to blue skies and such is when the ghosting begins.
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post #911 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 08:18 PM
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I'm returning the 5010 that I received yesterday due to HORRIBLE convergence (red - seen from 17', over the entire grid pattern!).

Although the projector has an LCD alignment feature, I don't want to use it.

A replacement will ship tomorrow.

P.S.
This projector is SUPER bright on my 159" 2.8 HP, in my true bat cave.
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post #912 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 08:39 PM
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Yes, it happens. That is my only real issue with Epson is random convergence, but their customer service is bar none the best. Mitsubishi is probably my second favorite customer service (they are both exceptional at it). I have great convergence on my JVC on the first try, and I cannot say the same about ANY other projector I have purchased (but maybe I was just lucky this time with the JVC, well I think I was slightly lucky but I also think the chances of getting a JVC with near-perfect convergence are much higher than most of the other MFR's, just my estimation).

The other MFR's besides Epson and Mits are not as good at customer service and handling warranty issues sad to say, sometimes they come close, but overall they just don't train their support to be as accommodating as Mits and Epson in my experience (but I don't have as much experience as some with other MFR's, so not sure about all MFR's).



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post #913 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Yes, it happens. That is my only real issue with Epson is random convergence, but their customer service is bar none the best. Mitsubishi is probably my second favorite customer service (they are both exceptional at it). I have great convergence on my JVC on the first try, and I cannot say the same about ANY other projector I have purchased (but maybe I was just lucky this time with the JVC, well I think I was slightly lucky but I also think the chances of getting a JVC with near-perfect convergence are much higher than most of the other MFR's, just my estimation).

The other MFR's besides Epson and Mits are not as good at customer service and handling warranty issues sad to say, sometimes they come close, but overall they just don't train their support to be as accommodating as Mits and Epson in my experience (but I don't have as much experience as some with other MFR's, so not sure about all MFR's).

What do you suppose Epson does with the many 5010/6010 projectors they get returned with convergence errors?
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post #914 of 3270 Old 01-18-2012, 09:23 PM
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No idea for sure, they could re-align but they probably only re-align if it is off by more than 2 pixels. They probably go into the refurb pool or the RMA pool, but I am taking a wild guess here and don't really know for sure, purely speculation.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

What do you suppose Epson does with the many 5010/6010 projectors they get returned with convergence errors?

Maybe they sell them to Panasonic who uses them to make new 7000s? Yuk Yuk. Just kidding.
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post #916 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 01:04 AM
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Thx for good informations !!

I found this thread today and this was very helpful for me!




I'm curious about panny ae7000u also (vs epson 5010e)
because of its input lag on game mode.

(I'm a heavy gamer , and this issue is serious/critical for me. )

But I cannot find exact(=tested) information about ae7000u
anyone knows about tested input lag information about ae7000u?


about 80ms in normal mode (tested info)
about 20~30ms in game mode (uncertain info) <<---




for me,

# 5010e
pros: brightest 2D3D / speaker / wirelessHD (easy setup for me)
cons: 80ms lag / no DI,FI in 3D

# ae7000u
pros: brighter than others / DI,FI in 3D / better input lag than 5010e (estimate)
cons: dimmer 3D than 5010e (maybe this is enough for controled darken room)


thx!!
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post #917 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 06:53 AM
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The panasonic has lower input lag for gaming. My brother has it and I have the Epson 5010. The Epson is far from unplayable and is perfectly fine if you are not going online and expecting to be the world's #1 best player. You can feel the lag in some games and not others, but again, it doesn't make the Epson unplayable by any means. I have tested well over 20 games on the 5010 and only 1 game did I have a hard time with it and it was the new Duke Nukem game (which sucks anyways.)

Zombie - I just pulled the trigger on the Acer H9500BD, tired of waiting on BenQ to release the new update and I need a unit for my secondary room. I'll let you know how it is (should be here tomorrow.)
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post #918 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 08:38 AM
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Received the 5010 yesterday and spent a few hours running through various segments of 2D and 3D clips. The footprint is not as deep as I thought - only about 17" depth needed from front to the back of the cables protruding. Air intake and exhaust both on the front. Hot air (and noise) exits one side, cool air pulled in on the other.


Setup:
Trying to get the shift and focus dialed in is something of a pain with the manual controls which are somewhat sloppy. Moving the up/down shift effects the right/left shift and visa versa. Something that is very precise and quick to do on the JVC takes a good 5 minutes on the 5010. Didn't seem to be able to get the focus quite dialed in - the control is very touchy and IMO could be less so. My 110" (96x54) screen is 21.5ft away. The PJ lens is just lower than the top of screen and about 1ft horz shift. The image exiting the lens appears very centered. Panel alignment was pretty good. Did a couple sessions (one at start and another after a few hours) of tweaking alignment. Pretty good if you ask me. I like that you can adjust intersections anywhere across the grid.

I ran through a quick brightness/contrast setup but not a calibration yet. Will maybe take a stab at a cursory calibration tonight. Meanwhile we used Cinema and Natural modes, the former being somewhat over-saturated but the latter being not punchy enough. I don't have a lot of time left to mess around with this machine before deciding whether or not to keep it.


3D:
Used the Epson 3D glasses. Have the MonsterVision RF glasses, but didn't get to dial those in yet. The Epson glasses were comfortable enough and clear, though I prefer a larger vertical field of view. The frames are quite wide and over-sized for my wife's head size. I can't see kids using these and would likely get a couple pair of PS3 v3 glasses ($50) for small heads.

We are blown away how nice the 3D is with this projector. The clarity and depth far surpasses what we saw on our previous RS40 we used for 10 months.

On the RS40 I had last year, "Resident Evil - Afterlife" was horrible with ghosting/crosstalk, poor depth and frequently made our eyes go crossed. Not the case on the 5010, where it was excellent. Likewise, maybe 80% of the DirecTV SbS 3D is now very watchable and no problems tuning in to the DTV 3D content - sports or otherwise.

Old standards like Avatar showed much better depth and clarity on the 5010. Avatar 3D went from "Ho Hum" on the JVC, to "Wow".

No issues noted for motion and panning in 3D. Considering all that is going on when watching 3D - glasses, depth, etc, I think black level and overall picture is great.


2D->3D conversion:
... excellent! Many people here shun the idea. IMO, on the 5010 the conversion is as good as the DTV 3D SbS content. We tuned into DTV 2D sports (football, basketball) and movies, and Blu-ray 2D movies and were really really pleased with the conversion. In fact, my wife who was not impressed with the RS40 3D much at all agreed the conversion on the 5010 was enticing enough to use almost all the time. Maybe it's the "new toy" thing, but we thought it was very good. In fact, if ESPN tossed away their expensive 3D rigs and just used this conversion, it would turn out just as well (maybe there is a conspiracy theory here... are they really creating live 3D or just using conversion? . No kidding, the conversion produced on-the-fly 3D as good or better than Tron 3D looked in the theaters with Real3D glasses.


2D:
Good. It's not the vibrant pop level, depth or smoothness as the RS40, but a very acceptable picture. Like I mentioned at the top, have not done a calibration yet.


Audible Noise:
In ECO mode (Natural, Cinema) LOW lamp it is roughly about the same level as the RS40 was... not intrusive. In Dynamic or Living Rm (HI lamp - 3D mode) a bit higher level... maybe like a big 1500 watt hair dryer running on low type of noise.


Motion (FI):
Maybe the only time to use it at all was for watching hockey where the constant panning and fast player movement blurred a little. Otherwise, didn't needed it anywhere else.


Brightness:

As mentioned above, my 110" (96x54) screen is 21.5ft away, a Da-lite Cinema Vision 1.3 gain. Sitting at 16ft, brightness is plenty in 2D and 3D. I wouldn't say 3D brightness in Dynamic mode couldn't be higher, but with the new lamp it is fine (glasses @ medium brightness).

---

That's my subjective feedback so far, FWIW.


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. Early project info. Needs update with final results.
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post #919 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 08:41 AM
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Good feedback coolP. Are you using the natural setting by chance? I was using cinema and found natural to be more accurate out of the box and have had little urge to break out my calibration equipment.
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post #920 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

Audible Noise:
In ECO mode (Natural, Cinema) LOW lamp it is roughly about the same level as the RS40 was... not intrusive. In Dynamic or Living Rm (HI lamp - 3D mode) a bit higher level... maybe like a big 1500 watt hair dryer running on low type of noise.

How's the noise compare to the RS40 when it's in high lamp mode?
I've heard the JVC is quiet in low mode but it gets pretty loud as well in high lamp mode.

2014
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post #921 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 09:21 AM
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Jmalto, thx for sharing your experience !!


maybe..

It looks like.. my wallet want to buy 5010e now
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post #922 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by whizzpop View Post

Jmalto, thx for sharing your experience !!


maybe..

It looks like.. my wallet want to buy 5010e now

You won't be disappointed, especially if you have a high gain screen. I have a 1.2 gain 140" AT screen in my main room and a 110" HP screen 2.4 gain in my other room and I have very little desire to go back to the bigger screen because of how good the Epson looks on the HP one (think giant LED LCD.)
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post #923 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 10:41 AM
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Got a TW9000 (i.e. 5010) for a review earlier today. After a short first session I'm pretty impressed. Hugely better crosstalk performance than on TW6000 (i.e. 3010). One disappointment so far: for some reason I was under the impression that TW9000 has interpolation for 3D, but nope :/

Oh yeah, also received Xpand X104 glasses today. They work fine with the Epson; they even support the glasses brightness setting properly.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #924 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Good feedback coolP. Are you using the natural setting by chance? I was using cinema and found natural to be more accurate out of the box and have had little urge to break out my calibration equipment.

For 2D viewing, I tried out both Cinema and Natural with the OOTB calibration - whatever that is I have not verified yet other than setting the brightness and contrast levels using the AV709 disc. See my comment in the OP under "Setup". I agree with what you said, but found Natural to be somewhat bland looking (needed more pop). Increasing the color saturation a couple clicks helped a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

How's the noise compare to the RS40 when it's in high lamp mode?
I've heard the JVC is quiet in low mode but it gets pretty loud as well in high lamp mode.

The 5010 is a tad loud in 3D, and I found the RS40 a bit too loud for me. I like it dead quiet, so I'd probably need to build a hushbox regardless of which PJ I use in high mode. On the 5010, the fan noise seems to emanate almost entirely from the exhaust port side.

ECO mode is fine.


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post #925 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Got a TW9000 (i.e. 5010) for a review earlier today. After a short first session I'm pretty impressed. Hugely better crosstalk performance than on TW6000 (i.e. 3010). One disappointment so far: for some reason I was under the impression that TW9000 has interpolation for 3D, but nope :/

Oh yeah, also received Xpand X104 glasses today. They work fine with the Epson; they even support the glasses brightness setting properly.



Many peoples bought ae7000u costantly praise of FI in 3D..
(especially FI mode 3)

It looks like a REAL WINDOWS. everything moves so real..
I'm so so curious about it


This is one major reason why I hesitate btw 5010e vs ae7000u
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post #926 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 11:39 AM
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I much prefer the significantly less ghosting of the 5010 over the FI of the Panasonic.
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post #927 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Got a TW9000 (i.e. 5010) for a review earlier today. After a short first session I'm pretty impressed. Hugely better crosstalk performance than on TW6000 (i.e. 3010). One disappointment so far: for some reason I was under the impression that TW9000 has interpolation for 3D, but nope :/

Oh yeah, also received Xpand X104 glasses today. They work fine with the Epson; they even support the glasses brightness setting properly.

I'm curious about your impressions of the black level and contrast in 3D mode, and what type of screen you're using.

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post #928 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

How's the noise compare to the RS40 when it's in high lamp mode?
I've heard the JVC is quiet in low mode but it gets pretty loud as well in high lamp mode.

The JVC is pretty quiet in high lamp mode also. Much quieter than most projectors.

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post #929 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whizzpop View Post

Many peoples bought ae7000u costantly praise of FI in 3D..
(especially FI mode 3)

It looks like a REAL WINDOWS. everything moves so real..
I'm so so curious about it


This is one major reason why I hesitate btw 5010e vs ae7000u

On the RS40 I used CMD 3 all the time. I like a fairly smooth pan and motion. With the 5010 last night, I found it wasn't needed for almost all content (only enabled for hockey).

Resident Evil 3D has a ton of fast motion, panning, dark on white, white on dark scenes (which is why I used it as a benchmark), but it looked great without FI available. I think it's sort of like complaining about not getting reference level blacks in 3D all the while you're wearing shutter glasses - it's meaningless if it's not a real factor. The lack of ghosting on the 5010 probalby cleans up the image a lot more than using FI in conjunction with blurry frames.


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post #930 of 3270 Old 01-19-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The JVC is pretty quiet in high lamp mode also. Much quieter than most projectors.

I concur, I almost spit my coffee out reading comments of this projector being loud in high lamp.LMAO

Apparently none of these folks have used DLPs.
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