JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I believe you just need to charge them -- that's it.

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Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

If you are referring to the $50 Playstation 3D glasses you do nothing but pull the tab to activate the battery, turn the battery on (switch on the right frame that goes over the ear) and hold the button on top until they synch with the projector.

So far I think these glasses do just as well with the HW30 as the MV3D ones. I am hoping what zombie provides can help clear up any ghosting I am seeing with them.

That's what I needed to know. I am on my way to Besy Buy to pick them up for $40. These will be great for my kids.
Thanks!
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post #1352 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 11:06 AM
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Thanks Petri, that is very valuable info. Seems like the biggest difference of the Nvidias/Xpands vs the Epson/RFs is the effect on blue. Makes sense as blue is an essential component in producing pure whites. This helps a lot in trying to tune the 3D mode on my Acer. The Nvidia mode in the 3D settings is actually kindof backwards, its settings are as follows:

107 Red gain, 90 Green, 100 Blue. When in fact according to your tests, the red is already increased by the glasses, the green is increased (slightly, but no more than the RF, and less than the Epsons), the Blue is decreased the most. I'm going to experiment with increasing blue and lowering the red, and I think it should nail it colour wise.

Thanks a lot, this kind of test data makes everything very clear.
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post #1353 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

I wonder if we overlooked a subtle point about the Epson 3D implementation vs the usage of FI in other projectors that have it available in 3D mode.

Referring to: http://global.epson.com/newsroom/201..._20111125.html, the talk there indicates usage of a blackout frame in their frame stream. If it is unique to Epson, perhaps this explains the clarity without "FI".

I understand the gist they are pushing with the claimed 480Hz advantange vs 240Hz, Sony also pushes a similar idea (albeit @ 240Hz and some shutter magic) for "a brighter 3D experience". However AFAIK Sony does not portray a blackout frame in their sequence. Then, JVC lols around 120Hz and just ..., well you know. Apparently the Epson panels are so fast, they have an extra one to burn and still exceed most of the competition. Ouch, stick the knife in and twist.

Is a blackout frame standard for 3D frame streams or just an Epson implementation that results in not needing FI? Maybe I answered that above already, maybe not.

IMO, panning and action sequences seem to play excellently on the 5010 without FI in either 2D or 3D. The only content I wanted FI enabled was for watching hockey... bright white ice with fast motion and panning.

Based on what I'm seeing with this 6010, Epson's explanation of how their system works is totally believable. It explains why motion seems smoother to me than it does with other 3D displays. What I described a few posts ago as the lack of "micro-stutter" must be the result of seeing the image for 3/480 of a second instead of 2/480 (or even less, as happens in other displays). The times are too fast to register on a conscious level, but the perceptual effect is dramatic. Motion looks much better and the image is brighter - there's no doubt in my mind about that. At the same time, ghosting is reduced tremendously. Even at the medium 3D Brightness setting, ghosting doesn't bother me even on my brilliantly bright 110" HP.

Once I changed the gamma, the image became visually dynamic, but the motion remained smooth and "mellow." I've read JVC's tech "explanation" of why their 3D looks so good, and it reads like Epson's. The difference is that what Epson has done improves the 3D experience. Whatever JVC did this past year took 3D that was marginally acceptable for certain types of shots and made it completely unacceptable - at least with my RS45, in my room and on my screen. BTW, my room is very, very dark - not a 100% bat cave, but there's very little light or reflective surfaces to pollute the image.

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post #1354 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post


Once I changed the gamma, the image became visually dynamic, but the motion remained smooth and "mellow." I've read JVC's tech "explanation" of why their 3D looks so good, and it reads like Epson's. The difference is that what Epson has done improves the 3D experience. Whatever JVC did this past year took 3D that was marginally acceptable for certain types of shots and made it completely unacceptable - at least with my RS45, in my room and on my screen. BTW, my room is very, very dark - not a 100% bat cave, but there's very little light or reflective surfaces to pollute the image.

Joseph - I'm not sure if you mentioned this before, but are you sensitive to the flicker on the JVC's? This was my # 1 complaint last year when I got the RS40 (compared to the 5360 which is rock solid). This doesn't bother me at all on the 5010 (or the HW30). Your RS45 observations were identical to the RS45 I demo'd and also the same as my RS55. For the great IQ they excel at in 2D, they have to fix this eventually on the 3D side.

I was watching Imax: 3D Bugs Rain Forrest Adventure last night. I think you'll go nuts when you see this.. they made a special Imax camera with a Macro lens to get with an inch of these bugs and they look massive on the screen with unbelievable 3D detail.
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post #1355 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Xavier1 View Post

Thanks a lot, this kind of test data makes everything very clear.

I hate to point this out but I suppose I'd better before people waste inordinate amounts of time tweaking their projectors: active shutter glasses have a different effect on the RGB balance when active vs. inactive.

The original idea behind these measurements was to compare the tint of various lenses when the LCs are at rest. They were not meant to be used for adjusting color balance. It only dawned on me that people might use them for that purpose once I read Xavier's post. I should have mentioned this earlier; sorry.

To illustrate my point, here's a comparison of what Epson glasses do to pure white in inactive and active modes:


Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #1356 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 11:44 AM
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What's remarkable about the 6010 is that Epson has managed to tame both dark and light ghosting. I've seen both types on this projector, but neither is offensive as it is all too often on other displays. For instance, I watched the credits section of Tangled, the animated Rapunzel tale with Zachary Levy as the lovable thief. Those credits are "ink on parchment" or black letters on a white background, as opposed to most credits (white letters on a black background). I don't care how new the lamp is, the JVC can't handle a scene like this with any grace. The Epson can. And the Epson can handle light ghosting, too. Take the animated space ship in The Universe: Seven Wonders of the Solar System. The JVC looks amazing in these scenes, but the Epson is almost as good. In both cases, there's very little of that telltale white ghosting to destroy the 3D illusion. The Epson loses out in terms of its inability to display brilliant whites and deep blacks as dramatically as the JVC. It doesn't "sparkle" as much. But the cumulative effect of lack of ghosting and smooth motion makes the 3D look even better. As I watched scene after scene last night (til 3:30 ), I was struck time and again by the fact that objects looked like I could reach out touch them. Their "3-dimensionality" was that convincing. I was stunned at how many more 3D objects stood out for me in scenes that I've watched many, many times before.

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post #1357 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Petri- this is great! thanks for doing this. Any chance you have a set of the Nvidia 3D visions to test as well? for some reason I am not a fan of the color tint of the Nvidia 3D vision and Xpand 103 (or any of the JVC's) vs. the MV3D or Epson's.

@ Tom - Ghosting performance is similar between the HW30 and the 5010. The 5010 has the brightness if needed and the HW30 has the FI in 3D which I like since the 3D is nice and easy on the eyes and appears to reduce flicker even though the 2 aren't linked together.

A movie with a lot of action scenes like Final Destination 5 is a good one to compare the HW30 and 5010, with some preference towards the HW30 due to the subtle but effective FI in 3D mode. I'd like to see Epson turn this on in 3D if they can.

Thanks Jason

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My equipment: JVC RS55 for 2D, BenQ W7000 for 3D, Carada 40x117 2.925:1 AR BW Criterion screen, Navatar .8 HD conversion lens, Darbee Darblet, region free Oppo BP93, Toshiba HD-A35 HD-DVD, JVC HD-DH5U D-Theater, Mitsubishi HS-HD 20000 DVHS, Pioneer CLD-97 LD player/AC-3 mod, B&K AC3 Demodulator
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post #1358 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Joseph - I'm not sure if you mentioned this before, but are you sensitive to the flicker on the JVC's? This was my # 1 complaint last year when I got the RS40 (compared to the 5360 which is rock solid). This doesn't bother me at all on the 5010 (or the HW30). Your RS45 observations were identical to the RS45 I demo'd and also the same as my RS55. For the great IQ they excel at in 2D, they have to fix this eventually on the 3D side.

I was watching Imax: 3D Bugs Rain Forrest Adventure last night. I think you'll go nuts when you see this.. they made a special Imax camera with a Macro lens to get with an inch of these bugs and they look massive on the screen with unbelievable 3D detail.

I'm not as sensitive to flicker as you. It never bothered me on the RS40. It was, however, one of the first things I noticed about the RS45. I acclimated to it pretty quickly, but I saw it.

Yes, JVC has some work to do. I hope they can manage to improve 3D while maintaining their incredible contrast. I've never seen a 2D image that I like more than the one a JVC produces.

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post #1359 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 11:56 AM
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Oh I see, thanks Petri! Very interesting experiment. I suppose calibrating in 3D mode through the glasses is bit tricky. That Epson graph is quite different in the two different states. Please keep us up to date on your findings, there isn't enough hard data on this kind of stuff.

Its interesting to note that the colour temperature goes from 5500K (without glasses) to 7000K with the active Epson glasses. IMO, that is not very neutral either if you are trying to achieve perfection. So no glasses really leave the picture unaffected, or exactly as the 2D mode.
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post #1360 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

Well, all this talk in the thread with lots of good info, along with an hour or so on the phone this afternoon with Mark H. and I lept from the fence and ordered the Epson 6010. Should come in next week according to Mark and an install to follow. I was thinking of taking some shots with my C3X of a few movies and then comparing later, but that's probably a useless exercise given the 720p vs 1080p, 3 chip DLP vs LCD, etc. For now (unless the Epson disappoints), I will likely sell my C3X to some needy HDTV ESPN sports nut who would benefit from the 720p signals.

Now I have to decide whether to attempt to remove my ceiling buried 40' HDMI cable (and try to snake it without removing any drywall) and replace it with a new high speed/CEC HDMI cable - or possibly go wireless HDMI. Looking forward to the new projector, but my trusty C3X has served well for several years now.

[i]
Are you sure you made the right choice?
May be you should of went for the JVC and got the darkest blacks of them all.
Ya, you might have some ghosting with the JVC in 3D but the PQ is superior and you should just tolerate ghosting or you will be sacrificing a superb PQ for one that is not so good just to be ghost free and get high beams for 3D.
The JVC sharpness, convergence & PQ surpasses that of the Epson and Sony.
You are settling if you keep the Epson.
Or may be used should of got the Sony.
It has DI and film like PQ like the JVC in 3D.
It's almost like the best of the JVC & Epson.
The Epson PQ is hard edged looking and very digital compared to the JVC & Sony since it's you know, LCD. .
The Epson is hard on the eyes and no where near the analog look of the JVC. You'll be rubbing your eyes 20 minutes to watching the Epson and wondering if you are watching a video game. You eyes will get fatigue quickly and you'll want to gouge them out from the burning.

I don't know...
It might be best to wait for the perfect projector. It's probably around the corner.
Maybe next Dec or the year after.
Some times it's best to wait and get your $3000 worth from a perfect projector.
Otherwise, you might be in multiple threads complaining about anything that is not near perfect. Like convergence, color uniformity, focus uniformity, pixels not the right micron size on a 150" screen, an so on.

May be seriously think about getting a 60" or 70" plasma for $900-1500 and sit about 2-3 feet away from it since it will blow away any of these projectors in terms of PQ and field of view is all that really matters to get the theater PQ experience (audio will not be discussed here as that is another can of worms).
Sitting that close will make your Plasma picture look huge!


[/sarcasm]

2014
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post #1361 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i'm glad you like it. we have similar viewing preferences, same screen, etc. so I wasn't too surprised to think you were going to like it.

I tested the updated firmware on the MV3D transmitter and had a much easier time tuning it for the 5010. I think the factory glasses are about as good as it gets, but I was able to tune the MV3D's to the same performance in handling ghosting with maybe a few % dimmer than the factor glasses. There is still more tweaking to do with the MV3D, this was a 2 minute manual setup.

This sample I have seems a bit different than Petri's, I am not seeing the same amount of dark on light ghosting on the tree vs. petri's screenshots a while back. How does yours look on this scene?

Color tint is very similar between these glasses, with a slight preference towards the factory Epson glasses.

Jason, your MV3D setup looks great on that Grand Canyon shot. Please connect your MV3D emitter to the MV firmware utility/computer and obtain the current delay, duty cycle values from the emitter to post those here.

Other than the tint diff (and perhaps better contrast) my impression was that the Epson's had much better 3D depth.

At $80-90/pair, the Epsons are the best performing glasses for the Epson hands down IMO. Fit-wise, small heads should look elsewhere as in using the PS3s. While the Epson glasses do have an arm adjustment to make the arms fit smaller, that does not improve the nose piece fit or the large frame width.

Petri, the MV, Optoma, and 3D-VIP RF glasses are all the same model from Bit Cauldron, simply stamped with different brand names.

Coolplazma's HT Den project. Early project info. Needs update with final results.
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post #1362 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

[i]
Are you sure you made the right choice?
May be you should of went for the JVC and got the darkest blacks of them all.
Ya, you might have some ghosting with the JVC in 3D but the PQ is superior and you should just tolerate ghosting or you will be sacrificing a superb PQ for one that is not so good just to be ghost free and get high beams for 3D.
The JVC sharpness, convergence & PQ surpasses that of the Epson and Sony.
You are settling if you keep the Epson.
Or may be used should of got the Sony.
It has DI and film like PQ like the JVC in 3D.
It's almost like the best of the JVC & Epson.
The Epson PQ is hard edged looking and very digital compared to the JVC & Sony since it's you know, LCD. .
The Epson is hard on the eyes and no where near the analog look of the JVC. You'll be rubbing your eyes 20 minutes to watching the Epson and wondering if you are watching a video game. You eyes will get fatigue quickly and you'll want to gouge them out from the burning.

I don't know...
It might be best to wait for the perfect projector. It's probably around the corner.
Maybe next Dec or the year after.
Some times it's best to wait and get your $3000 worth from a perfect projector.
Otherwise, you might be in multiple threads complaining about anything that is not near perfect. Like convergence, color uniformity, focus uniformity, pixels not the right micron size on a 150" screen, an so on.

May be seriously think about getting a 60" or 70" plasma for $900-1500 and sit about 2-3 feet away from it since it will blow away any of these projectors in terms of PQ and field of view is all that really matters to get the theater PQ experience (audio will not be discussed here as that is another can of worms).
Sitting that close will make your Plasma picture look huge!


[/sarcasm]

I know who this is aimed at and I'm glad its not me!

Anyway, just one correction in your rant. I don't think the DI works in 3D for the Sony. I was really surprised. It has FI in 3D, but I don't believe the DI is engaged in 3D, much like the Epson, which has neither in 3D.

So, now we have Conan48, Zombie and Joe all turning into Epson fanboys. I would have had a look this weekend, but the showroom isn't complete until next weekend so I'll just have to wait. It is just tougher to buy sight unseen when 3D is involved -- I've seen ghosts and they scare the hell out of me.
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post #1363 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

Petri, the MV, Optoma, and 3D-VIP RF glasses are all the same model from Bit Cauldron, simply stamped with different brand names.

Yup, that's what I figured

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #1364 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

[i]
Are you sure you made the right choice?
May be you should of went for the JVC and got the darkest blacks of them all.
Ya, you might have some ghosting with the JVC in 3D but the PQ is superior and you should just tolerate ghosting or you will be sacrificing a superb PQ for one that is not so good just to be ghost free and get high beams for 3D.
The JVC sharpness, convergence & PQ surpasses that of the Epson and Sony.
You are settling if you keep the Epson.
Or may be used should of got the Sony.
It has DI and film like PQ like the JVC in 3D.
It's almost like the best of the JVC & Epson.
The Epson PQ is hard edged looking and very digital compared to the JVC & Sony since it's you know, LCD. .
The Epson is hard on the eyes and no where near the analog look of the JVC. You'll be rubbing your eyes 20 minutes to watching the Epson and wondering if you are watching a video game. You eyes will get fatigue quickly and you'll want to gouge them out from the burning.

I don't know...
It might be best to wait for the perfect projector. It's probably around the corner.
Maybe next Dec or the year after.
Some times it's best to wait and get your $3000 worth from a perfect projector.
Otherwise, you might be in multiple threads complaining about anything that is not near perfect. Like convergence, color uniformity, focus uniformity, pixels not the right micron size on a 150" screen, an so on.

May be seriously think about getting a 60" or 70" plasma for $900-1500 and sit about 2-3 feet away from it since it will blow away any of these projectors in terms of PQ and field of view is all that really matters to get the theater PQ experience (audio will not be discussed here as that is another can of worms).
Sitting that close will make your Plasma picture look huge!


[/sarcasm]

I'm not sure if that was really aimed at me (I did note the "sarcasm" at the end) but I had few such internal conflicts. So, I'll just assume I didn't quite get it, that there was no animosity intended and I'm out of the loop.

Ray
"You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place." -Jonathan Swift
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post #1365 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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This isn't a rant thread.. and it's certainly not a thread for others to question or try to convince others of their decision - please save that for a different thread. AVS has a 4 hour policy where if Flint350 isn't happy with his decision, he can choose a different model.

DV - if your still thrilled with the 5360 that's great. I am not an Epson fanatic with the exception that I really like the 3D from this projector and the 5360 is a distance memory if I choose to go with this model. IMO, it trumps it in just about every possible way. See it for yourself or just wait until the fall. Round 3 is likely to bring even better features since the CEM's are obviously sold on pushing 3D.

fanatics are folks who blindly support their buying choice, well, because it's their buying choice. I have several projectors that all suite a different need for my viewing habits. I could care less what name is on them when I turn the lights as long as my eyes tell me it's right.
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post #1366 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I could care less what name is on them

So you do care? Sorry, a pet peeve of mine

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #1367 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

So you do care? Sorry, a pet peeve of mine

so you are ranting on my diction? how dare you..
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post #1368 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 01:50 PM
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My comments were not meant to offend anyone -- sorry if they did. Jason, I appreciate your efforts and I am now going to have a look at the Epson. I had written this projector off because of the lack of DI and FI in 3D mode and I wasn't sure about how it would handle ghosting. Your comments, Conan48's and Joseph's have intrigued me enough to make the effort to see it in person. I have no idea as yet what my impressions will be, but I will take some of the tough 3D material and see what happens. This is, IMO, the most informative thread on this forum at this time with respect to 3D projectors.
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post #1369 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 01:59 PM
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I think Zombie was directing that at PlasmaMan, not you. You are one of the more polite posters if I recall, but I could be mistaken (laugh).

My main thing is I started sitting a lot closer to my screen after I got the JVC, as it is only 106" HP, that is why I really appreciate LCOS. Almost like making the screen bigger (I said almost).
If I could do it over again, I would actually buy the RS-55 instead of the RS-45 most likely, but e-shift sounded too "markety" to me at first, I didn't know it really was ALL THAT. I might sell the RS-45 to get an RS-55, haven't decided yet, but seems like too much risk/hassle.


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post #1370 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 02:59 PM
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More about glasses...

Took a couple of pictures, thanks for the tips Zombie. I found a D65 white balance and then compared what I was seeing with what the camera was capturing.

Acer 5360, Despicable Me, no glasses:
Attachment 235687

With Nvidia v1 glasses, using same settings as 2D:
Attachment 235688

With Nvidia v1 glasses, using Nvidia 3D mode settings:
Attachment 235689

Notice how much effect the different colour settings can have on the final picture. The Nvidia mode has much more red (too much actually) compared to the standard settings. As Petri said, and the Epson docs mentioned, the colour shift can be accounted for, just takes some tinkering. These pictures where taken without making any adjustments. I'm going to play with the RGB gains more until I arrive at an ideal balance. Please don't compare these to Zombie's pictures, compare the three to one another.
LL
LL
LL
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post #1371 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

I'm not sure if that was really aimed at me (I did note the "sarcasm" at the end) but I had few such internal conflicts. So, I'll just assume I didn't quite get it, that there was no animosity intended and I'm out of the loop.

My post wasn't directed at anyone specific.
Just a sarcastic post of how critical and sometimes biased we are with projectors.
Take it as a thread intermission and nothing more.

*As for my field of view and plasma reference, a few months ago, a member was telling us projector owners that we were wasting our money and buying a large plasma and sitting 2-3 feet away will blow away any home theater projector PQ. This guy was serious but I think he was a plasma fanatic.

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post #1372 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 05:01 PM
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Zombie - do the epson glasses work on the HW30? Curious how they look if so.
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post #1373 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

My comments were not meant to offend anyone -- sorry if they did. Jason, I appreciate your efforts and I am now going to have a look at the Epson. I had written this projector off because of the lack of DI and FI in 3D mode and I wasn't sure about how it would handle ghosting. Your comments, Conan48's and Joseph's have intrigued me enough to make the effort to see it in person. I have no idea as yet what my impressions will be, but I will take some of the tough 3D material and see what happens. This is, IMO, the most informative thread on this forum at this time with respect to 3D projectors.

Yes, this is a great thread. It's been extremely informative. If someone forced me to bet on whether you'll like the Epson, I'd wager yes, but who knows? You may not. We're all different. I'm glad you're going to be able to audition it for yourself.

BTW, I tried an old Panasonic demo disc of miscellaneous 3D material that I almost forgot I had. There was plenty of 720p/120hz 3D on it. I can't see any more ghosting on that material than on 24p Blu-ray 3D. That shouldn't be surprising, given how Epson has implemented 3D on its projectors. It means I'll be able to review my own 3D footage on the 6010 right from the camcorder. That was an exercise in futility with the JVC.

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post #1374 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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DV - that's why I started this thread. I was hooked on 3D since the 5360 and intrigued by the differences in all these different projectors and how each one handles the most difficult thing for a 3D projector which is the ghosting. I am really glad I got a chance to see so many of the new models this year and share this information with the AVS members. What a major different from last year when the JVC 40/50, VW90, Sharp 17k and Acer 5360 were the only 3D game in town.

If you recall, members got really upset when the owners threads were overtaken by the discussion of 3D since it was hard for those only interested in 2D to get a handle on how the projector performs. This thread is for everyone to discuss 2D and 3D performance on any model out this year, not just the one's in the title. I think it's been pretty successful so far and everyone's conversations and opinions are much appreciated.


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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Yes, this is a great thread. It's been extremely informative. If someone forced me to bet on whether you'll like the Epson, I'd wager yes, but who knows? You may not. We're all different. I'm glad you're going to be able to audition it for yourself.

BTW, I tried an old Panasonic demo disc of miscellaneous 3D material that I almost forgot I had. There was plenty of 720p/120hz 3D on it. I can't see any more ghosting on that material than on 24p Blu-ray 3D. That shouldn't be surprising, given how Epson has implemented 3D on its projectors. It means I'll be able to review my own 3D footage on the 6010 right from the camcorder. That was an exercise in futility with the JVC.

I was a little surprised by how well it does in SBS. The only recording I have is the JA3 3D movie in SBS and watched it for 10 minutes on my RS50 and that was the end of SBS for me for a while. Now I have to check the HW30 since I've never tried this movie or your SBS video of the garden I just tried recently.

Jmalto - Not sure about the Epson's on the HW30, but the Sony's definitely don't work on the Epson.
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post #1375 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 08:29 PM
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My 5010 replacement is a keeper. No ghosting in 3D with the DM disc or the GC disc. And the 5010 is super bright on my 159" 2.8 HP in my bat cave - even in 3D.

I have an issue with Epson's glasses, and with Xpand's 104's. The lens of the Epson's are too small for me - I can see the lower part of the frame. The Xpand 104's are a great fit for me, but they add a very slight reddish tint to the image (e.g. on the yellow rafts and the white container lids in the GC disc at 14:36).

I also like the Epson's 2D (note that I returned an X30 and a W7000 in the past month). I just finished watching Southland, which was recorded on one of my TiVo S-3s last Tuesday. The blacks and the contrast were great.

All I need now is my Darblet (I'm on the pre-order list), and I'll be a very happy camper until this fall, when the 2013 models are announced.
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post #1376 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Elkhunter - it's good that the projector worked for you. I thought you'd like the brightness with the torch mode on the HP screen.

it sounds like the MV3D's are your only choice. These are pretty big compared to all the other glasses including the Epson's. They have come down in price and I recently tested them to work fine with the 5010.

The MV3D's are in the upper right.

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post #1377 of 3270 Old 01-29-2012, 11:10 PM
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So, got some 3D viewing in on my 5010. On brighter 3D movies, the Acer 5360 is tough to complain about. I have a samsung emitter and ultra clear samsung glasses, which I found superior to nVidia glasses and ultraclear dlp link glasses. Movies with darker scenes, like the beginning of How to Train Your Dragon, the Acer is left wanting, and that is where the 5010 is amazing. In 3D cinema mode brightness was plenty. The black level and contrast difference over the 5360 is crazy. Also the resolution increase at my 7' seating position is helpful. I could not go back now.
For kicks I put it to 3D Dynamic mode. Someone turned a vacuum cleaner on so I went to complain and realized it was my Epson. Holy smokes it is loud in that mode. Luckily, I don't need it with my high gain Vutec Silverstar, which I am extra glad I have now.
In Dragon, there is a scene where Hiccup is looking for toothless. The camera(?) pans across the scene and I notice the 24fps jumping. I do think FI in 3D would be nice, but that is really the only scene I noticed it, and I was looking for it.
The Epson glasses are really nice, the only bad thing is they seem really front heavy. The PS3 glasses are much better that way. They seem ligher too. Neither are as comfortable as the Ultraclear glasses. The PS3 glasses were very slightly darker and less clean than the Epson glasses. I actually had to use the Epson glasses tightening feature to get them to stay on my Mom's head. The PS3 glasses fit both of us fine. I think their built in top blinders would be nice in a non bat cave. I will use the Epson, but sure wouldn't mind the PS3 glasses.
I looked for and saw no ghosting in any of the movies I have watched.
I would call this 3D close enough to perfect for me, despite the Dynamic mode being unusable due to noise.
2D is fantastic too, except for the SDE, which doesn't show up in 3D at all. I also wish there was a few more image presets, one darker than I can go now. Just knocking the contrast down to -16 makes it a lot easier to type on at least. I telecommute a lot and use my HTPC to dial in to work.
Given that I don't need (and can't use really) the maximum brightness of this projector, I almost think the Panny 7000 might have worked better for me. I sure love everything but the 2D brightness and SDE though, and those are both probably unique to my really high gain screen, and close seating position, but of course, those are also what makes 3D amazing.
Also, I highly recommend everyone go buy Kung Fu Panda 2. It is a fantastic 3D demo, plus a really decent movie too. It has a ton of pop out effects and just looks beautiful.
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post #1378 of 3270 Old 01-30-2012, 12:56 AM
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You just need an ND filter, some type of slider design so it's easy to put in front of the lens for 2D and then remove it.

The dark scenes with the red lights in the boats, the fireworks, and the others look really good in Kung Fu Panda 2. That was the first animated film that I've seen that I really thought was enjoyable. I have only seen a handful of animated movies however.


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post #1379 of 3270 Old 01-30-2012, 09:01 AM
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An ND filter might be nice. I have a normal screen laying around I will try.
How to Train Your Dragon is one of my favorite movies ever.

I am noticing the power switch on the PS3 glasses is kind stupid, and having to have them turned on to charge is a bit silly. Then one wouldn't charge on my front usb port. I had to hook up in the rear.
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post #1380 of 3270 Old 01-30-2012, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I was a little surprised by how well it does in SBS. The only recording I have is the JA3 3D movie in SBS and watched it for 10 minutes on my RS50 and that was the end of SBS for me for a while. Now I have to check the HW30 since I've never tried this movie or your SBS video of the garden I just tried recently.

Zombie, I've posted the link to a site that has great SBS material previously in this thread shortly after you mentioned your lack of SBS material the first time. The site has clips of frame packed B-rays converted to SBS. Gives you a great way to compare SBS vs your Blu-rays on the same material!

I used a looney toons (roadrunner) clip that I know inside out (ghosted like crazy on a samsung plasma I had) that's excellent for testing both light on dark and vice versa ghosting.
Amazingly I saw none on the RS45, but that was definitely not on a HP screen. And, mind you, I'm not saying that there wasn't any ghosting at all, but on this screen and with that specific RS45, I saw none without pausing the clip.

I'll be demoing the Epson vs the 45 next weekend, so I'll try to pause some of the clips this time, but really, if it doesn't catch my attention while the pic is moving, I frankly don't care it's there. The only reason why it would be bothersome without pausing, is the fact that even though you can't see it, it does cause fatigue on the eyes. Since I had no fatigue while demoing the RS45 for 2+ hours, that to me suggests there wasn't too much there to begin with. With my samsung plasma I had head & eye-aches within 10 minutes!
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