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post #1441 of 3270 Old 01-31-2012, 06:09 PM
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And the other part. -- see post 1451 below. So there you have it Joe -- Conan48 has found his projector, well until the next one. Who knows if he still owns an Epson.
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post #1442 of 3270 Old 01-31-2012, 06:13 PM
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Jeez. That sounds just like me.

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post #1443 of 3270 Old 01-31-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I'm back.

Watched some more 3D and I've come to the conclusion that this will be my 3D projector of choice. Ghosting is VERY minimal and damn the 3D brightness is ridiculous. I toggled 3D on and off and the brightness in 3D, in it's insane 3D dynamic mode with glasses brightness set to high is almost brighter then the 2D cinema mode in eco mode for 2D!! BTW, I love the panasonic 3D3 glasses. Very light and rechargeable, and seem to have a neutral tint. I'm running the 3D glasses almost always in high brightness mode as there are only a very select few titles that need the benefit of slightly lower brightness to reduce ghosting to almost zero.

2D:

I'm actually pretty amazed at how this projector performs in 2D. I bought this projector from a place that has a 14 day return policy and I didn't really think I would keep it. Just needed seomething to play with over the holidays I looked for reasons to get rid of it, but I can't now. The performance for the money is just too good.

You guys are probably wondering how this compares to expensive projectors like the X7, X70, VW90, INfoucs SP8602, etc that I've had in the past year.

Very well actually and beats the more expensive projectors in some categories

The 5010 too me is a combination of a DLP and LCOS in one machine.

The image on the 5010 REALLY POPS!! bright scenes have a three dimensional imagd that I did not see on any LCOS (the X70, VW90 are pretty close) It looks similar to the Infocus in bright scenes. Whites are WHITE, while the X70 has more of a "foggy" look in bright scenes.

I believe the brightness was around 700 lumens in best mode but it seems brighter then my X70, and Much brighter the the X7. Not sure if it could be just perception and the image dynamics that make it seem brighter then it really is. I really wan't someone to test the ANSI contrast on the 5010, as it's hard to imagine it no being really good. LCD in general has better ANSI then LCOS, while DLP has the highest ANSI. This might be the reason for the "pop". With the new D9 chip it very well may have gotten a bump.

Sharpness from corner to corner is perfect, as is the convergence. I DID NOT expect this at all from my prior experience from the 6500 and 8700. They had horrible convergence and average sharpness. Again, this may just be an exceptional unit it this regard and other 5010 may not be as good.

SDE (screen door effect) Yes it's visible at around 1 screen with too me, but even then it's not intrusive and really only visible in white scenes are scenes with solid colours. This may bother some people more then others. Pixel grid structure is extremely visible up close.

Motion is Very good. Ran the motion tests from the Japanese FPD benchmark disc and it reproduces motion as well as I have seen from any projector. No blurring or smearing, or loss of texture detail during the panning store front scene. Motion is about the same as a good DLP. FI works well with very few artifacts but is very aggressive in all modes and I really wouldn't use it for film content.

Blacks. Without the iris they are good to average, and with the iris it can get very close to the JVC on many scenes and the Epson has the blackest fade to black of any projector. (iris pretty much completely closes) Really dark movies with very low APL scenes still have a clearly visible advantage to the JVC. I would say that 80% of dark scenes would be very hard to tell the JVC and Epson apart for the average movie. However something like the move Afraid of the Dark which I recently watched, that has pretty much low APL scenes throughout favour the JVC.

The iris is generally not visible is very good most of the time. It can get tripped up once in a while but it's the best iris other the the Sony VW90 that I"ve seen. It is still noisy however, and it quiet scenes it can be annoying. It makes a kind of gurgling sound that while not high pitched is audible once in a while. I'm tolerating it right now, but I may just turn it off for some types of talky movies.

The picture is very digital looking. This is probably a great thing for some and a negative for others. It looks more like a giant LCD, but with better colour, motion, and black levels. Grain in films stands out like a mother ****er on the 5010. I tried MANY movies and newer "cleaner" films look great, some older stuff or even some newer films like Black Swan, that have grain or use it for "artistic" reasons, it really stands out. Even more so then the X70 with eshift. However the depth and detail is phenomenal, producing a 3D like picture. This doesn't have the "film look" at all really. The Sony and JVC looks a little more refined I guess I would say with a buttery smooth image that is reminicent of a GOOD cinema picture (hard to find nowadays withe the crap film projectors out there) but they lack the "pop" of the Epson in bright scenes.

Overall I would say that the Epson will be liked more by some then any of the LCOS machines out there. I really liked the improvement in dynamics from the X70 but the Epson takes it too another level. If you wan't a giant LCD flat panel like picture, then go with the Epson. If you wan't a smooth less noisy film like picture with ultimate blacks, go with an LCOS. They really are very different, but both very good

I'm really enjoying the Epson right now and may play with it for a while

BTW. Almost forgot to mention that this thing puts out massive light output in 2D in it's living room or dynamic modes. Now I know what a picture might look like on an HP screen I don't really find these modes necessary for me as I have a bat cave but it's nice for doc, and sports, or if you dont have a light controlled room then the brightness would be a great addition. Living room mode looks fine in terms of colour, but the Dynamic mode has colour that is not very good but can be tweaked a bit for accuracy at the cost of some lumens.

I probably forgot some stuff so ask away.......

OK here's the other half.
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post #1444 of 3270 Old 01-31-2012, 08:20 PM
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FWIW, add this info to the pot...

Lots of subjective talk, not much detail. Some interesting photos.

www DOT joe rod home theater DOT com /Sony--VPL-HW30-AES-3D-Projector.html

(sorry, some pain inserting the link above. censorship?)

---

First time I came across this list of top ten home theaters I was blown away by some..., err many. Play name that projector in the photos...
http://theaterprojector.org/the-top-...-money-can-buy

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post #1445 of 3270 Old 01-31-2012, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

First time I came across this list of top ten home theaters I was blown away by some..., err many. Play name that projector in the photos...
http://theaterprojector.org/the-top-...-money-can-buy

some of those are pretty wild. If I had a choice of anyone's theater on AVS, it would be Wolfgang (W.Mayer)..

His HT is from another planet. 22 foot screen, 4K 3D DLP and the room looks huge in the photos i've seen.
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post #1446 of 3270 Old 01-31-2012, 09:00 PM
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The last two were hilarious, the bat cave home theater. The audio setup in the 6-million dollar one was just a tad-slight overkill.
The star trek one used a 720p projector, pretty funny.


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post #1447 of 3270 Old 01-31-2012, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

... Since the Epson 5010 has the best dynamic mode of any LCD ever made (let's assume 1300-1400 lumens corrected), I'm assuming it's very watchable even for movies in this mode ...

Really, can you watch movies in that mode? It is way too loud to watch movies for me.
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post #1448 of 3270 Old 01-31-2012, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I think he is referring to the noise. I can hear it, but it doesn't bother me. I can see some not wanting the extra noise, but there has to be a price to pay for that kind of lumen output in 3D mode.

to me, loud is those 500 lumen 720P LED projectors. The small fans are screaming loud. I borrowed one from work for a night but there is no way I can put up that particular noise.

I still use my QUMI LED DLP for watching TV at night. It's enough on my HP screen with the lights out and if I fall asleep, it doesn't matter.
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post #1449 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 12:18 AM
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Ahh, sorry I was thinking in terms of the image because it was so bright.
I'm not as adverse to noise as some, the only thing is if the noise is inconsistent it bothers me a tad more. My Viewsonic DLP is pretty loud, but not too bad in low lamp.


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post #1450 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 08:44 AM
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If you're interested in an outboard filter for the Epson's dynamic mode here's a good place to start.

http://www.camerafilters.com/pages/fl.aspx
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post #1451 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 10:06 AM
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I like a quiet projector. I have an old Planar PD7130 (720P DLP) the fan is stuck in high mode. I immediately stopped using it for movies. I gave it to my son for Xbox gaming. My Viewsonic Pro8100 and my RS45 are nearly silent.

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post #1452 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 10:31 AM
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After reading Conan's quoted post above, that was the straw that broke the camel's back...I just could not resist any longer, so I just placed an order with Mike Garrett a few minutes ago for the 5010 and 4 pairs of Epson glasses...

Thanks, Mike!
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post #1453 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

After reading Conan's quoted post above, that was the straw that broke the camel's back...I just could not resist any longer, so I just placed an order with Mike Garrett a few minutes ago for the 5010 and 4 pairs of Epson glasses...

Thanks, Mike!

Bob - what you don't know is that Conan posts the same exact info on every projector he gets.

all kidding aside, please let us know your thoughts when you get it. Is this your first 3D projector?
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post #1454 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:


Bob - what you don't know is that Conan posts the same exact info on every projector he gets.

Yes, I do know...
Quote:


all kidding aside, please let us know your thoughts when you get it. Is this your first 3D projector?

Yup...fist 3D display of any kind ever, so my opinions about 3D will be basically useless, but I will be more than happy to evaluate its 2D performance, good or bad...
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post #1455 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 12:25 PM
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I am going to try a friends 3d blu ray player tonight and see if that works, then i will know if its a ps3 setting that i am missingor something else..
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post #1456 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 12:26 PM
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oops sorry wrong post..
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post #1457 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 01:00 PM
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^^^ discover an entirely new dimension by using the Delete function as many more should do also.

Coolplazma's HT Den project. Early project info. Needs update with final results.
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post #1458 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Yes, I do know...

Yup...fist 3D display of any kind ever, so my opinions about 3D will be basically useless, but I will be more than happy to evaluate its 2D performance, good or bad...

Looking forward to those thoughts, Bob.

I'm a little terrified. I agree with the vast majority of what Conan has to say about the Epson projector. I may have skimmed those reviews in the past, but if I did I completely forgot them because the Epson wasn't on my radar at all. Conan is a manic-depressive projector owner - "I love it" one day and "I sold it yesterday" the next week. Sorry, Conan. We seem to be picking on you, don't we?

I have a few additional thoughts on 2D, since I've been concentrating on it after my initial 3D binging. I'll share those later. Honestly, though, I think Conan pretty much nailed it.

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post #1459 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 03:56 PM
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Wow the Epson is really gets some great praise. Has anyone measure the on/off CR on this thing, both with the auto iris and natively? I wonder about the ANSI CR too...
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post #1460 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Wow the Epson is really gets some great praise. Has anyone measure the on/off CR on this thing, both with the auto iris and natively? I wonder about the ANSI CR too...

tom posted some info on ansi in his review

http://www.displaycalibrationonline...._epson5010.asp
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post #1461 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

tom posted some info on ansi in his review

http://www.displaycalibrationonline...._epson5010.asp

Thanks. Interesting. Very nice write up. I would have liked to have seen how the gamma would have calibrated as I prefer a more flat response curve (except at the low end). Also I wonder if the dE of 7.1 post-calibration at 10% is correctable. Would also like to see what is going on with the gamma and dE at 5%. If anyone measures please post - thanks.
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post #1462 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 05:00 PM
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"Wow the Epson is really gets some great praise. Has anyone measure the on/off CR on this thing, both with the auto iris and natively? I wonder about the ANSI CR too..."

I think, from what I've read, on/off without DI (native) is between 4,000:1 and 7,000:1 depending on zoom and with DI on close to 30,000:1 and in dynamic mode with outboard filter (according to Cine4Home) 100,000:1 -- however, in this mode you may be permanently blinded!
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post #1463 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 05:14 PM
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Still got the Epson and I'm still enjoying it for 2d and 3D.

Again in regards to comparisons between the Epson and the Sony or JVC (LCOS) I still stand by all my reviews at time I wrote them. The Epson and LCOS units have very different looks and both are good in different ways. I never thought I would be happy with the Epson and was planning on using it for 3D only, but I really liked it and I don't feel guilty about saying that I prefer it to the JVC overall for 2D as well.

Yes the X70 has better blacks, and a more film like image but I found other factors that greatly benefited the Epson.

No, I'm not buying anything else until the next gen projectors come out this fall.

Just for reference I doubt gush about every projector I own. I blasted the VW90 after my initial impressions, and stated flat out that the X70 3D is garbage.

I also owned the SP8602 which I liked but didn't even bother to review, and checked out a Benq W6000 which I also didn't bother to write about. Also had an Optoma 8200 for a couple of weeks. Basically I've tested enough projectors for the year and for me the Epson won Not in every category but overall. Also money is not really a factor for me and I could afford anything under 10k. Too bad the Sony 4k is 25k
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post #1464 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 05:16 PM
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Save some money and I'll see you in the under 3500 forum
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post #1465 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 05:26 PM
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The 4k projectors will come down soon enough. I got a Onkyo 809 for the 4k upscaling just in case.
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post #1466 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 05:35 PM
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As a 2D projector, I think the Epson 6010 is head and shoulders above my Panasonic 4000. I don't know what the raw contrast numbers are, but the Epson looks far superior. That said, in dark scenes it can't touch the RS45 with a 43,000 foot pole.

Ditto to almost everything Conan said in his posts, though. Mainly, for me, there's an edginess to 2D on the Epson that turns into a buttery smoothness on the RS45. And as Coderguy keeps saying, I don't think it's because the RS45 lacks sharpness. I watched an episode from the Star Trek: The Next Generation HD preview disc that came out yesterday. As Conan says, film grain is very pronounced on the Epson. For Star Trek and for a Blu-ray of Stargate: Atlantis Fan Favorites, I had to crank sharpness all the way down to zero to tame it, and there's still an edginess (no doubt in part because of the lower pixel fill factor, which I can just perceive from my 1.5x screen width seating distance). It's not objectionable, but it's very different than the look I'm used to on the JVC.

The disc where the difference between the Epson and my JVC seems the most dramatic so far is the live Broadway production of Rent. For me, it's a very revealing disc because of the extreme highlights - brightly lit characters and dark stage backgrounds. To me, the Epson easily beats the Panasonic in terms of contrast, although the Panasonic appears a bit "smoother," probably as a result of its "Smoothscreen" technology. But, it's the JVC that really shines in a disc like this. Regardless of the pixel fill ratio, both the Epson and the Panny flatten the image considerably in dark scenes. The contrast of the RS40/45 humanizes all the characters for me, by rounding out and giving smooth texture to their features.

I think the auto iris on the Epson is much better than on the Panasonic 4000. On low it's unobtrusive, although I may end up simply turning it off altogether. I don't like the high speed setting. During a fade to black, it shuts off the iris altogether. There's no lamp light hitting the screen. But it calls attention to itself every single time I see it happen. On the other end, the projector gets so freakin' bright on bright scenes with my 110" HP that it literally hurts my eyes. I'll probably use the low setting for sports, but I can't see myself using the high speed iris setting very much. The range of highs to lows feels like a body slam to my eyes (that metaphor doesn't work too well, does it? ).

I think the Epson's frame interpolation is the best I've seen. On my other displays, I never could put up with the artifacts for very long. Invariably, I'd turn it off. On the Epson, I think I'll be able to live with the low setting for most things. It smooths out the slow 24p frame rate nicely without making the edges look like they were sculpted by razor blades. The middle and high settings take an already "edgy" image and "harden" the look even more. I'm interested in how it will perform in the Superbowl, though. It might work well for sports. I think a lot of people would really like it. In the Stargate episode I watched, I was really struck by an arc shot around John Sheppard and several other characters in the Control Room. The camera arcs almost completely, and it looks extremely smooth even on the mid FI setting. It looks very much like a high frame rate video, which is what it's supposed to look like - so in that sense it's a good thing. But it's also unlike anything I'm used to in a typical film, so in that respect it's jarring.

On the very positive side, I find the THX mode with a 2.3 gamma very satisfying, with good contrast in mid to bright scenes, good color and plenty of pop and impact. With sharpness all the way down, and these settings, 2D looks really good.

Overall, for 2D I'm very impressed. For 3D, I'm ecstatic.

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post #1467 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 05:46 PM
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Oh, in THX mode with a 2.3 gamma preset, shadow detail is very good on the 6010. Although not great at some things, on balance the 2D image is extremely satisfying on the Epson.

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post #1468 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Conan - you know we're just busting chops. you tell it like it is.. regardless if it offends the owners of those particular projectors.

JC - thank for the input and glad you like the Epson. You can buy me a virtual beer one of these days.

is the STNG 4:3 or 16:9? I read that it was 4:3.. wasn't this shot on film? how does it look?
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post #1469 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 05:52 PM
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So for you Joseph, the Epson is mainly a 3D projector? I've considered ordering one for the heck of it. I think I may just wait on the 61000 Epson though. Or JVCs next year models.
With the JVCs weaknesses, it is still tough for me to give up the stellar black levels.
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post #1470 of 3270 Old 02-01-2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Conan - you know we're just busting chops. you tell it like it is.. regardless if it offends the owners of those particular projectors.

JC - thank for the input and glad you like the Epson. You can buy me a virtual beer one of these days.

is the STNG 4:3 or 16:9? I read that it was 4:3.. wasn't this shot on film? how does it look?

The sampler is 4:3. I was hoping they'd be able to do it in 16:9 for the HD transfers, but that probably would have involved too much cropping. It was shot on 35mm, and it has noticeable film grain. But that's the way film is. Some people love film grain. I don't. Still, it looks really good -certainly better than we've ever seen it before. They included my second favorite TNG episode (The Inner Light) and the pilot (Encounter at Far Point). I'll be getting the first season when it's released.

I'd love to be able to buy you a real beer or three. Maybe someday.

Joe Clark

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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