Knoll Systems HDO2200 - 4500 lumens! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 01-08-2012, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Knoll Systems HDO2200

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Knol...pare_list=6771

The specs look incredible. Is this a reliable company?
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post #2 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 07:25 AM
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I don't know about this model, but a few years back my store was a Knoll retailer. At that time, they were very, very similar to Infocus projectors, even down to the case.

Now I don't want to throw around the term "rebadge"', but again, at that time the Knolls seemed to share a lot of not all technology with Infocus.
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post #3 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conradjohnsonfan View Post

I don't know about this model, but a few years back my store was a Knoll retailer. At that time, they were very, very similar to Infocus projectors, even down to the case.

Now I don't want to throw around the term "rebadge"', but again, at that time the Knolls seemed to share a lot of not all technology with Infocus.

I checked the Projector Central database and they show no Infocus projector that resembles the Knoll either in looks or in specs. Maybe Knoll contracted Infocus or some other firm to build a projector to their specs.
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post #4 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 09:27 AM
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4500 Lumens, 3000:1 contrast, looks like a typical, nothing-special business class machine.

Here's a Vivitek with similar specs:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Vivitek-D963.htm
And a BenQ
http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-SH910.htm

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #5 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 11:40 AM
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Knoll sells a number of PJ's that are rebadged other brands, but because they do something to them they can be called manufactoried by Knoll. There are lots of Business class high power PJs out there.

The hard thing is to find a true HT PJ with that kind of output at a decent price.

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post #6 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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It looks allot like the Vivitek, but when you use Projector Central's lumen calculator it comes out twice as bright. Either this is an error or they changed it to give it better contrast and thus a higher lumen rating when used for movies.
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post #7 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

It looks allot like the Vivitek, but when you use Projector Central's lumen calculator it comes out twice as bright. Either this is an error or they changed it to give it better contrast and thus a higher lumen rating when used for movies.

Usually anything you do to the projector to increase the contrast, decreases the lumens.

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post #8 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I know. I was implying they improved the light engine somehow in a unique way to improve contrast. Sometimes that happens as well. Projector Central's calculator crushes the light output of projectors that do not provide good contrast. The Knoll seemed to get "Presentation Mode" specs when locked in "Movie Mode" settings on the calculator. Must be a mistake, or they have something new.

Probably a mistake. Check out the lumen output for a 147" screen for the Vivitek vs. the Knoll.
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post #9 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 02:20 PM
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I personally wouldn't put any stock in PJC's calculator for lumens or screen brightness, given that there's no information on where from or how they get the numbers they use for it.

If you want a really bright projector with good contrast for home theater, unfortunately you've basically got to look at Projection Design, Digital Projection Inc, Sim2 and the like.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #10 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

I checked the Projector Central database and they show no Infocus projector that resembles the Knoll either in looks or in specs. Maybe Knoll contracted Infocus or some other firm to build a projector to their specs.

Like I said, I am not going to call the knoll a rebadge since I dont have the expertise to do so.

BUT, if you look at the other projectors in the Knoll lineup, they are identical in appearance to Infocus products.

But you are right, it is possible in this case they did exactly as you say, and it is indeed a unique product.

If you have a large screen, this might be the ticket!
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post #11 of 31 Old 01-21-2012, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I emailed Projector Central and suggested their projector calculator for this projector may be off because it comes out so bright. They have not changed it. Maybe the projector is really factory calibrated so they do not need to change it. Someone should check this out first hand.

Factory calibrated to 6500° (D65) and color balance for a true cinema experience.

Super bright image. 4500 ANSI lumens allows viewing in higher ambient light conditions and on much larger screens.

Native 1080p (1920x1080) resolution. The highest resolution possible.

DLP® DarkChip™ and BrilliantColor™ technologies from TI and Maxplay™ with Knoll calibration.

Maximum 3000 hour lamp life and the fan is whisper-quiet at 26dB.

RS-232c port for automation and 12V trigger for simple screen/projector automation functionality.
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post #12 of 31 Old 01-21-2012, 10:08 AM
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Knolls Systems is local where I live, few years back I was going to buy a projector directly from Kevin Knolls. He was telling me that they were buying the projectors from Infocus but all the software in the projector was from Knolls and thats why they weren't just "rebranded".

I didnt end up buying one from Kevin but my boss did and has had a lot of enjoyment from it over the last 4 years.
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post #13 of 31 Old 04-19-2012, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Knoll Systems HDO2200
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Knol...ms-HDO2200.htm

I finally called Knoll Systems and found the MSRP is only $2,999. According to Projector Central's calculator, it is brighter than most 3 chip DLP machines. I emailed Projector Central asking if they had made a mistake and they stuck by their numbers.

Has anyone seen this projector in action? Maybe it disobeys the laws of physics? Maybe some new technology?

What gives?
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post #14 of 31 Old 04-19-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

Knoll Systems HDO2200
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Knol...ms-HDO2200.htm

I finally called Knoll Systems and found the MSRP is only $2,999. According to Projector Central's calculator, it is brighter than most 3 chip DLP machines.

That's really not that hard, assuming you're talking home theater 3 DLP machines, there's lots of business class DLPs that are in the 4000-5000 Lumen range.

What is hard is doing that with contrast that would be considered acceptable in a Home Theater environment. That's really what you're paying for with a 3 DLP machine, high brightness and high contrast. This thing is only claiming 3000:1 contrast, which really is nothing to write home about.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #15 of 31 Old 04-19-2012, 10:56 AM
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The contrast ratio of 3,000:1 is a very low number unless it is ANSI and it is not in this case. Most Prjectors are below 400 ANSI contrast but list absolute contrast. 3000:1 is not bad, but not great for a home theater. Without seeing the PJ, it woul dbe hard to make a determination.

David

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post #16 of 31 Old 04-19-2012, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, but they are claiming to have it calibrated for home theater, not for presentations. Play around with the Projector Central screen calculator and see it reads brighter than a 3 chip 2 bulb Digital Projection DLP. Usually a bright 1 chip machine like that comes out dim compared to its presentation specifications. This one is supposed to be color perfect at the full 4500 lumens, which no other 1 chip machine claims in that brightness category.
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post #17 of 31 Old 04-19-2012, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

Play around with the Projector Central screen calculator and see it reads brighter than a 3 chip 2 bulb Digital Projection DLP.

A DPI is going to have way better contrast and an overall much better image. There's really no reason to think anything special is going on here, it's spec'd and priced like a bright business machine.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #18 of 31 Old 04-19-2012, 01:10 PM
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If you believe their number that they have a 4500 lumen calibrated at D65 machine and seem to be the only one who can provide this at under $30,000 go for it. Otherwise no it will not produce 4500 lumens calibrated and if it does it will not have what many consider good contrast.

You have to remember good, low noise, bright, etc etc are not defined and what you think is bright is not to someone else. What you think is a good contrast is not to another. You have to decide if this is good enough for you.

Look at the CRE thread they claim 3000 lumens from a LED chipset that nobody else has been able to get even 1000 calibrated lumens, yet the company stands by their 3000 lumen claim and say color are very good. If you consider everything being redish or yellow very good then yes... for most of us we would not consider that to be good.

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post #19 of 31 Old 04-19-2012, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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We need someone to view this product and report back.
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post #20 of 31 Old 06-29-2012, 12:21 PM
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new here.... thanks for the warm-welcome !! wink.gif

have one running right now in my "Lab"
has decent light-output.... grey screen / high-ambient
will know more by next week when we install
I suspect they have to remove at least one segment of color wheel ( as do other manufacturers) when attempting
to achieve these output specs.
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post #21 of 31 Old 06-29-2012, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Good! Keep us posted.
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post #22 of 31 Old 06-29-2012, 03:18 PM
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just hung it from ceiling mount, in light controlled room.
Not calibrated yet. fairly bright.... terrible artifacts of some sort. not sure if it is mirror "dither" or other blotchy artifacts that
are potentially related to the cable signal .... although I have never seen these same artifacts on this same system / cable box
( with other projectors)
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post #23 of 31 Old 07-01-2012, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes,...and?
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post #24 of 31 Old 07-02-2012, 04:47 AM
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I am withholding further contributions / opinion until I get to run BRD on it this week. Sorry I just do not want to rely entirely on the local cable providers signal
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post #25 of 31 Old 07-07-2012, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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When you make your report, please tell us what size and type of screen you are using, and what brand and model of Blu-ray player you are using.

THANKS
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post #26 of 31 Old 07-07-2012, 09:52 AM
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I don't have a comment on the thread, but I do find the OP's screen name to be hilarious.

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post #27 of 31 Old 07-09-2012, 04:47 AM
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probably should have gone with Shreadedpork ....
the things we'll do for anonymity
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post #28 of 31 Old 07-10-2012, 09:58 AM
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watched BluRay yesterday on 49 x 87 ( 100 diag) white 1.3 (probably Draper .... relatively inexpensive) screen
this projector is impressive from a light-output standpoint. My guess is that they've done something along the lines of
a clear color-wheel segment or multiple clear segments to achieve the brightness level
There is a bothersome artifact on both BluRay and the HD cable sources. My friend, the homeowner , and "Borrower" of
this projector (whilest his gets fixed) used the word "Sparkles" .... and really looks forward to getting his back
I am not ISF-type-expert enough to know what term to use. Possibly mirror-dither ??
it is annoying .... that's for sure

But hey, let's be realistic .... would we be talking about a 4,500 lumen 1080p DLP , under $3K just 5 years ago
or even 2 years ago ??

we're getting spoiled
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post #29 of 31 Old 07-10-2012, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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So, overall I guess you are saying that this projector is not a good choice for home theater despite it's brightness.

Too bad. The specs sounded too good to be ture.
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post #30 of 31 Old 07-11-2012, 06:04 AM
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I would put it this way ... if you find video-artifacts , "Sparkly" and otherwise , to be as distracting as I do , you will probably never
be satisfied with this projo. spend the extra Grand and get in to something like the new Runco LS-1
The KNOLL is bright and would fill a large screen , therefore it might be a perfect fit for someone with a multi-purpose room who would prefer
sports / entertainment, over film-viewing.
Tomorrow it will be permanently installed into the home theater of the one who is actually purchasing it , and if my opinion changes
I will post my reasons. there may be some delay due to the simple fact that the permanent screen is on back-order
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