Sharp XV-Z30000 3D DLP - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 12:23 PM
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Sharp 30K - some quick observations after a few hours:

  • Focus uniformity - Decent, but not great. The center to 3/4 of the edges is good but gets soft towards the edges of the screen. This is likely sample variances like we've seen with every other model out today. If you get a copy that has perfect focus, you have to keep that projector. My W7000 is very good and the RS-55 is literally perfect. This is all luck of the draw. Unfortunately my screen @ 142" is not forgiving so it stands out more than it would on a smaller screen. It's not an issue with real content, but would have liked to see top shelf focus on this model.

  • Motion test - I ran the FPD benchmark, it seems to resolve ~450 lines without a problem, I couldn't make out much more below that level. I will re-visit this later and check playback with other source devices (HTPC, etc) to verify the results.

  • 3D lumen output - I have to spend more time with this, but it seem the brightest mode I could find was ~ 700 lumens. This was with the projector @ 17 feet from the 142" 2.8HP. 3D looked very good good, there was obviously no ghosting in any of the tough scenes I use in the shoot-out thread. Contrast in 3D looks good, better than the W7000 but I need to equalize the light output for a more fair comparison since the W7000 is brighter by several hundred lumens. I do wish it had the FI in 3D, there is a bit of detectable motion artifacts in 3D but most will not see this.

  • Color Space - I could write a white paper on this topic titled 'what where they thinking'? cool.gif The color controls only allow for gain changes, not the offsets. So you have to tweak it in a way that satisfies the spread between 30 and 80. It doesn't work great, but I was able to get the dE's to an acceptable range with the built in controls. Color space appears very similar to what we saw in Tom Norton's review. It needs helps. The built in CMS controls are clunky, I have to see if I can harness in some of the over-saturated primaries. As Tom noted, it still looks decent with regular content, no obvious issues a casual viewer will notice, but I know what to look for. I'm going to spend a bunch of time trying to tweak this further over the weekend.

  • Contrast - good for a DLP. I have a large, bright high power screen that is very unforgiving with black floor. There is only so much an iris can do on dark scenes, then we rely on native contrast. the Sharp looks very good with mid -> bright scenes. It's weaker with low APL scenes and the image looks a bit flat. Definitely better than the W7000, but not quite as good as last years Sony's HW30. The black floor is a few notches below the Sony HW50 and Epson 5020 and a league away from my RS55 @ -11 on the iris.Still impressive for a DLP at this price point.

    DLP fans talk about 'Pop', great motion etc as positive qualities of the DLP which I agree with. But average black floor (compared to the JVC) can take me out of a movie with low APL scenes. Any of the dark scenes in 'The Dark Knight Rises' is a perfect example. The RS55 is on another planet in comparison. Very dark blacks with high peak whites create a certain depth to the image that cannot be replicated by the DLP's at this price point (Sharp 30K and HC8000 as a reference). The Sharp is definitely better than the Mitsubishi HC8000 which left me disappointed considering it has a DC3 panel.

  • RBE - I am hypersensitive to RBE. This projector is quite good for my eyes. I could see it occasionally, but overall impressed with the Sharp in 2D in 3D.



The 3D lumen output could be a challenge depending on the setup. I can still get away with it because I am getting the full 2.8 gain on my screen (projector is inches from eye level). However the lamp will wear over time, so this should be a consideration when choosing a screen to match.

The 3Dglasses are nearly perfect. Very comfortable with glasses, no pinching behind the ears. They sync quickly and seem relatively neutral with color (I haven't done a 3D cal yet). The 2D option is a great feature for those that don't like 3D but want to still watch the movie. Definitely some of my favorite factory 3D glasses with the Epson 5020 RF as a close second.

I still have plenty of info to come, this is just some basic info to share.
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post #272 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 12:43 PM
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Could you comment on dynamic iris "visibility" and pumping between the 30K and the HC8000? Which 2D picture do you prefer?

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post #273 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

[*] Motion test - I ran the FPD benchmark, it seems to resolve ~450 lines without a problem, I couldn't make out much more below that level.
:[
But that was a great read!
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post #274 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 01:37 PM
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I could see the iris on the HC8000 but didn't notice it yet on the Sharp. I'll look at this closer tonight and let you know.

One of the odd issues I saw with the HC8000 was white & grey field uniformity. It seems odds to discuss in the context of a single chip DLP, but I saw strange uniformity issues during calibration. I am guessing it's the lens or something in the optical path causing it to happen. The Sharp is well behaved here, all the grey fields looked relatively consistent.

I would take the Sharp over the Mitsubishi for 2D without a doubt. The sharp has nice punch with mid - high brightness scenes. It would be better if it had that Konica lens from your Marantz projectors.. cool.gif

@ Elix - I will go back and try other sources for the FPD test to make sure what I'm seeing is consistent. My main focus is on color right now. I tried an auto-cal last night with the lumagen, but the red and green dE's are so far off it couldn't wrangle them in to my expectations.


The wish list would include better color controls, better lens, brighter 3D (~1000 lumens) and FI in 3D. I have to look at this closer because motion in 3D was bugging me a bit last night. I used several fast paced scenes from 'Step Up 3D' and 'Journey to the Mysterious Island' for reference. I'm curious now to see one of these new triple flash 144hz DLP's to see if it makes a difference compared to these 120hz models without FI.

I hope no one takes my comments out of context, this is a nice projector overall for the price point.


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post #275 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I could see the iris on the HC8000 but didn't notice it yet on the Sharp. I'll look at this closer tonight and let you know.

One of the odd issues I saw with the HC8000 was white & grey field uniformity. It seems odds to discuss in the context of a single chip DLP, but I saw strange uniformity issues during calibration. I am guessing it's the lens or something in the optical path causing it to happen. The Sharp is well behaved here, all the grey fields looked relatively consistent.

I would take the Sharp over the Mitsubishi for 2D without a doubt. The sharp has nice punch with mid - high brightness scenes. It would be better if it had that Konica lens from your Marantz projectors.. cool.gif

@ Elix - I will go back and try other sources for the FPD test to make sure what I'm seeing is consistent. My main focus is on color right now. I tried an auto-cal last night with the lumagen, but the red and green dE's are so far off it couldn't wrangle them in to my expectations.


The wish list would include better color controls, better lens, brighter 3D (~1000 lumens) and FI in 3D. I have to look at this closer because motion in 3D was bugging me a bit last night. I used several fast paced scenes from 'Step Up 3D' and 'Journey to the Mysterious Island' for reference. I'm curious now to see one of these new triple flash 144hz DLP's to see if it makes a difference compared to these 120hz models without FI.

I hope no one takes my comments out of context, this is a nice projector overall for the price point.

Good to know. I just bought a new lamp from AVScience. From reviews the VP15S1 will be putting out over 850 calibrated lumens with the iris open! eek.gif and I'll be throwing it on my 92" 2.8 HP screen! tongue.gif Looks like the iris is staying all the way closed!

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post #276 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 03:39 PM
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Help me find one of these Marantz projectors, I was looking years ago and stopped for a while. I almost bought one 3 or 4 different times.

http://www.displaywars.com/92-inch-16x9-vs-142-inch-16x9

My last HP was a 92" 2.8 pull down. it looks like a peanut next to the 142". biggrin.gif:D

92-inch-16x9-vs-142-inch-16x9.png


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post #277 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 05:32 PM
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Sharp glasses + lens cover. These are a great fit over prescription glasses. Nice size lenses so we don't see the frame in the field of view.

sharp1.jpg


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post #278 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 05:49 PM
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If it arrives intact without issues, I'll let you borrow it for a couple weeks if you want.

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post #279 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 06:35 PM
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"it seems the brightest mode I could find was ~ 700 lumens"

That's not right. The Z17000 I just picked up shows 1300 lumens on a 106" screen. You use dynamic for 3D which is the brightest choice, 37ft candles. The glasses and their tint balance out the colors here. I've watched a few 3D movies and colors looks fine, brightness is more than fine. You missed something, maybe turning off the fixed iris and turning on the bright boost. 700 lumens is what I got for a tuned down to D65k 2D setup on the 106" screen. My projector also is set at max zoom which adds to brightness. The gamut is very different on the Z17000 also after looking at Huffman's posted gamut. Red is close on mine but green and blue are increased by the same level. You know this the engineers do to get the most brightness. 3D projectors need all they can get.

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post #280 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 07:42 PM
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Why isn't it right. The Sharp XV-Z30000 is a completely different chassis than the Sharp XV-Z17000, I'm not making any assumptions between the 2 models unless someone has seen both of them for a direct comparison.


In 2D, the dynamic mode is ~1100 lumens, with a color temp that is 7300K which isn't too bad for a torch mode.

In 3D Dynamic mode, iris 1 = High Brightness, iris 2 = off, ~700 lumens.

I've seen 3D lumen drops of all of the 3D DLP's i've measured. This one seems a bit more than the others though. My measurements coincide with Tom Norton's findings.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/sharp-xv-z30000-3d-dlp-video-projector-page-2

3D Performance

Sharp claims this projector produces a bright, punchy 3D image, and in a relative sense that’s true. But also true is the fact that there is a dramatic loss of brightness from 2D levels, even in the Dynamic Picture Mode. In that respect, the XV-Z30000 is little different from most 3D displays we’ve tested.

Do you have a Sharp 30K that measures differently? Let's compare notes to see if it's sample variance.


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post #281 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

If it arrives intact without issues, I'll let you borrow it for a couple weeks if you want.

good deal, then I'm going to want one for sure. cool.gif

btw, the iris that is adjustable between high brightness and high contrast causes a pretty good swing on grey scale. I'd want a separate calibration for both iris settings.

I'm going in for round 2 in a bit, this time to check out some more 3D. I have to charge the Monster Vision glasses to see if they work, I haven't used them in a while.


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post #282 of 1661 Old 03-21-2013, 11:19 PM
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Yeah somethings a little different but not really. I see you're saying the dynamic choice hits 1100 lumens on a 142" screen, but with the glassess on it's about 700 lumens. That's puts the two sharps pretty close.

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post #283 of 1661 Old 03-22-2013, 08:40 AM
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Man I love everything about this projector and really want to get one but 3D is really important to me and I'm really worried about the brightness as the bulb wears.

I have a 136" screen, but I would be projecting from the minimum distance of 14' 2". I have no idea what the gain on my screen is though as It's a painted screen I built myself.

Am I really going to have to go with the BenQ w1070? I was hoping for better blacks and overall quality. The W7000 will not throw an image large enough to full my screen in my screen with my throw distance available.
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post #284 of 1661 Old 03-22-2013, 09:04 AM
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From reading projectorreviews take on brightness I saw they mentioned the "Stage" picture mode was brighter than dynamic.

Any truth to that observation? If we are talking brightest setting for 3D with colors accuracy taking a back seat I would be interested to know the lumen output in Stage mode if it is brighter than Dynamic as hinted at by Arts review.
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post #285 of 1661 Old 03-22-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post

Man I love everything about this projector and really want to get one but 3D is really important to me and I'm really worried about the brightness as the bulb wears.

I have a 136" screen, but I would be projecting from the minimum distance of 14' 2". I have no idea what the gain on my screen is though as It's a painted screen I built myself.

Am I really going to have to go with the BenQ w1070? I was hoping for better blacks and overall quality. The W7000 will not throw an image large enough to full my screen in my screen with my throw distance available.

I think 136" 3D is too much for this projector to handle. I am using 120" DW at 15'5" with Dynamic mode/ IRIS- High Brightness and I found the brightness was just right. I had the Acer H9500 before and I found the image too dim.
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post #286 of 1661 Old 03-22-2013, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonthorn View Post

From reading projectorreviews take on brightness I saw they mentioned the "Stage" picture mode was brighter than dynamic.

Any truth to that observation? If we are talking brightest setting for 3D with colors accuracy taking a back seat I would be interested to know the lumen output in Stage mode if it is brighter than Dynamic as hinted at by Arts review.

I only tested 3D for few minutes but I seemed to recall 3D dynamic and 2D dynamic have same brightness. I thought 3D brightness from my 120" screen looks like a giant plasma but I didn't have a light meter to measure the lumens.
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post #287 of 1661 Old 03-22-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by humbland View Post

It's 20 feet each way...from the projector to the screen, then from the screen to the seating. It's actually closer to a total of 35 feet. Has anyone tried it reflected off the screen?
Thanks

Hi All,
I won't be able to set up the Z30000 for a few weeks. I have a question for those who have it up and running.
How long is the included cable that runs from the projector to the 3D IR emitter, and what kind of plug/jack set up is it; a standard 1/8 inch mono plug?
I think I'll need to make a long (50 foot) run to get an IR line of site to the seating area and I want to have the right extension cable ordered and available, if I need it.
I'll experiment with bouncing it off the screen, but the manual (PDF online) is suggesting that the max distance is a 30 foot line of site and I'm over that...
Thanks:)
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post #288 of 1661 Old 03-22-2013, 05:59 PM
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Seegs108... We need to talk... mad.gif lol!!!!

Does previous top bidder of $876 sound familiar to you????


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post #289 of 1661 Old 03-22-2013, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Seegs108... We need to talk... mad.gif lol!!!!

Does previous top bidder of $876 sound familiar to you????

LOL...I'm typing this right now as it throws an image on my screen tongue.gif

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post #290 of 1661 Old 03-22-2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Seegs108... We need to talk... mad.gif lol!!!!

Does previous top bidder of $876 sound familiar to you????

Sheesh Seegs... Glad I didn't tell you where the ls-1 was $550 until after I had mine wink.gif

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #291 of 1661 Old 03-22-2013, 07:21 PM
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Lol I didn't know he was the other bidder. We both didn't make a bid till a few minutes left.

When it comes to getting these projectors at these prices its every man for himself. smile.gif

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post #292 of 1661 Old 03-22-2013, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

Hi All,
I won't be able to set up the Z30000 for a few weeks. I have a question for those who have it up and running.
How long is the included cable that runs from the projector to the 3D IR emitter, and what kind of plug/jack set up is it; a standard 1/8 inch mono plug?
I think I'll need to make a long (50 foot) run to get an IR line of site to the seating area and I want to have the right extension cable ordered and available, if I need it.
I'll experiment with bouncing it off the screen, but the manual (PDF online) is suggesting that the max distance is a 30 foot line of site and I'm over that...
Thanks:)

How far is your projector going to be from the screen? it's a standard 1/8" stereo jack so you should be able to run an extension if needed.

The IR sender is huge and has a number of IR emitters, it's probably going to work from most distances to the screen.


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post #293 of 1661 Old 03-23-2013, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

How far is your projector going to be from the screen? it's a standard 1/8" stereo jack so you should be able to run an extension if needed.

The IR sender is huge and has a number of IR emitters, it's probably going to work from most distances to the screen.

Hi Zombie10k,
I'm a big fan of yours (5k posts!!!)smile.gif

The z30000 will be mounted about 15 feet high (cathedral ceiling) shooting 16 feet to a 110 inch 2.8 High Power screen.
The seating is about 15 feet from the screen. If I mount the IR emitter near the projector, it will have a signal round trip of >30 feet, bounced off the screen.
Alternately, I could run the emitter wires to the front of the room and mount the emitter near the screen. However, I would need a very long cable run (about 50 feet).
How long is the enclosed cable?

Another relevant question:
Can the IR emitter shoot down to the glasses from above them?
I could easily mount the emitter directly above the seating area, and orient it to shoot vertically down...With no IR 3D experience, It's hard to figure.
The room set up (with high ceilings), means multiple 12 foot ladders and logistics to mount the projector, emitter and tweak the screen. I want to have everything available and on hand to do it in one shot...

Thanks for the help and please keep the projector reviews and tips coming.
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post #294 of 1661 Old 03-23-2013, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

I think 136" 3D is too much for this projector to handle. I am using 120" DW at 15'5" with Dynamic mode/ IRIS- High Brightness and I found the brightness was just right. I had the Acer H9500 before and I found the image too dim.

I have the Acer H9500 running on a 120" 1.3 gain screen. I found the 3D brightness a big improvment over the Optoma HD66 I was using previously. However, more 3D brightness wouldn't hurt, plus the other improved features the Sharp has over the Acer makes it very tempting.

Some test reviews I've seen show both projectors pretty close in 3D brightness. I think it was something like 689 Lumens for the Acer and 700 for the Sharp. IIRC. Although I put more weight in an actual user of both machines more than two separate reviews. Are you seeing better than that? If so that makes the Sharp even more tempting.
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post #295 of 1661 Old 03-23-2013, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Seegs108... We need to talk... mad.gif lol!!!!

Does previous top bidder of $876 sound familiar to you????
and a Sharp XV-Z20000 sold for $760 the following day. Seegs, how's the ceiling paint on the 15s1?
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post #296 of 1661 Old 03-23-2013, 10:30 AM
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and a Sharp XV-Z20000 sold for $760 the following day. Seegs, how's the ceiling paint on the 15s1?

I spent about 10 minutes washing it off with a sponge and warm water. Looks like new. I'm sure more people would have bid on it if he took those 10 minutes to clean it up.

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post #297 of 1661 Old 03-23-2013, 11:52 AM
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He probably would have gotten another $500+ too!!!


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post #298 of 1661 Old 03-23-2013, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Walternate View Post

I have the Acer H9500 running on a 120" 1.3 gain screen. I found the 3D brightness a big improvment over the Optoma HD66 I was using previously. However, more 3D brightness wouldn't hurt, plus the other improved features the Sharp has over the Acer makes it very tempting.

Some test reviews I've seen show both projectors pretty close in 3D brightness. I think it was something like 689 Lumens for the Acer and 700 for the Sharp. IIRC. Although I put more weight in an actual user of both machines more than two separate reviews. Are you seeing better than that? If so that makes the Sharp even more tempting.

The problem with Acer is while it's bright in 2D mode, when you engage 3D mode the lumens drop by few hundreds and you get a dimmer picture. It doesn't maintain same brightness as 2D. With the Sharp 3D brightness is same as 2D so you get a brighter 3D picture. The difference to me is huge between Acer and Sharp. The Acer is too dim to enjoy and the Sharp is just bright enough. However I feel after 300 -350 hours the Sharp may be too dim as well (assuming 25% brightness loss).
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post #299 of 1661 Old 03-23-2013, 06:19 PM
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The problem with Acer is while it's bright in 2D mode, when you engage 3D mode the lumens drop by few hundreds and you get a dimmer picture. It doesn't maintain same brightness as 2D. With the Sharp 3D brightness is same as 2D so you get a brighter 3D picture. The difference to me is huge between Acer and Sharp. The Acer is too dim to enjoy and the Sharp is just bright enough. However I feel after 300 -350 hours the Sharp may be too dim as well (assuming 25% brightness loss).

Thanks for the reply. How would you compare the Acer glasses and the Sharps? Will the Sharp do DLP link or strictly IR?

I'm watching the price on Amazon. If it gets down to $2000 I might just buy it.
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post #300 of 1661 Old 03-28-2013, 07:52 AM
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Thanks for the reply. How would you compare the Acer glasses and the Sharps? Will the Sharp do DLP link or strictly IR?

I'm watching the price on Amazon. If it gets down to $2000 I might just buy it.

+1 on the glasses question.
Is the Sharp IR only? or will it also do DLP link?
How about other IR glasses. Will the Sharp work with the PlayStation 3 3D Glasses?
Thanks
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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Mitsubishi Hc5 , Sharp An3dg20b 3d Glasses Black Single , Sharp He Xvz17000 300 Inch 1080p Front Projector , Benq W7000 Home Projection System , Panasonic Viera Tc P65vt50 65 Inch Plasma Tv , Sharp Xv Z30000 Dlp
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