Sharp XV-Z30000 3D DLP - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-sharp-xv-z17000-3d-dlp-projector?page=0,2

"With Auto off, black level rose to 0.0208 while maximum output fell slightly to 33.75 (1,623:1). "

The native contrast is lower than I was expecting, basically the same as the W7000.

for reference, the Epson 5020 and HW50 are in the 5000:1 range without the iris. The JVC's are significantly higher.

Wow, that is low and like you mention similar to what we get with the 7000. What is the native on the 30000? I have never met a DI that I liked and first thing I do with the DI projectors I have owned is to shut this off. How did you find the DI on the 30000 compared to the DI on the 7000? I noticed the 7000 DI immediately and had to shut it off which left the anemic native CR which looks especially rough once I fire up the 45 as you know. Well worth the sacrifice considering the 3d improvements of course, but noticeable none the less.

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post #722 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Wow, that is low and like you mention similar to what we get with the 7000. What is the native on the 30000? I have never met a DI that I liked and first thing I do with the DI projectors I have owned is to shut this off. How did you find the DI on the 30000 compared to the DI on the 7000? I noticed the 7000 DI immediately and had to shut it off which left the anemic native CR which looks especially rough once I fire up the 45 as you know. Well worth the sacrifice considering the 3d improvements of course, but noticeable none the less.

I'm not sure if anyone measured the 30k contrast in the few reviews that are out there. I spent more time watching 3D than 2D, so I'll let you know about the iris. Perceived contrast in 3D is very good, maybe a click below the HW50 or 5020, but several clicks better than the W7000. I think the IR vs. DLP link is one of the contributing factors. I'm convinced that the DLP flash hurts the contrast in 3D.

I got very lucky - the lens quality of this new 30k is almost perfect with focus uniformity on the 142" screen. I didn't expect this after the first one I saw, but this specific copy is fantastic. it's the sharpest 3D i've seen yet and noticeably better than the HW50. The HW50 for my setup needs the RC in 3D and I find that it magnifies background noise in stereo which can become distracting.

The PQ is rock solid like the W7000, no flicker or ghosting. These 'old' DLP panels were born for 3D.


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post #723 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I'm not sure if anyone measured the 30k contrast in the few reviews that are out there. I spent more time watching 3D than 2D, so I'll let you know about the iris. Perceived contrast in 3D is very good, maybe a click below the HW50 or 5020, but several clicks better than the W7000. I think the IR vs. DLP link is one of the contributing factors. I'm convinced that the DLP flash hurts the contrast in 3D.

I got very lucky - the lens quality of this new 30k is almost perfect with focus uniformity on the 142" screen. I didn't expect this after the first one I saw, but this specific copy is fantastic. it's the sharpest 3D i've seen yet and noticeably better than the HW50. The HW50 for my setup needs the RC in 3D and I find that it magnifies background noise in stereo which can become distracting.

The PQ is rock solid like the W7000, no flicker or ghosting. These 'old' DLP panels were born for 3D.

I suspect the same thing about the DLP flash and I am definitely not real fond of that on the 7000 along with the sync issues. Not a huge deal for me, but it will be nice to move away from both of these things whenever I upgrade.

Congrats on your new toy. Enjoy! cool.gif

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post #724 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 07:53 PM
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The full review shows black level goes way down and contrast way up to near 17000.1. with the high contrast iris and auto on. This is what I use for 2D and it looks spectacular. This setting puts black way down at 0.0008 or very black. Looks great to me.

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post #725 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

The full review shows black level goes way down and contrast way up to near 17000.1. with the high contrast iris and auto on. This is what I use for 2D and it looks spectacular. This setting puts black way down at 0.0008 or very black. Looks great to me.

That would mean the projector's iris boosts the contrast by a factor of roughly 10x native contrast. If this is the case, I highly doubt the iris action is smooth (or at least as smooth as the z30k which works on a factor of 4x to achieve roughly 8000:1 with the DI on). That 3x-4x seems to be the sweet spot when it comes to DI's. Anything more than that, things tend to become way too noticeable. For instance, the Planar PD8150 I own has a native contrast of ~3000:1 and achieves 11000-12000:1 on/off with the DI engaged and it has one of the best DI's ever implemented. As you see again, that 3x-4x sweet spot seems to be the limits to a good DI implementation to achieve the max boosted contrast before excessive visibility occurs. I had a Mitsubishi HC7800D which was similar to the Shark 17k you've mentioned. It had roughly the same native CR and roughly the same DI boosted CR. There was way too much iris action visilble. The same could be said about the Vivitek H5085 which boosted roughly the same as those two projectors and the same results occurred with the visibility.

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post #726 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 08:20 PM
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http://www.hometheater.com/content/sharp-xv-z17000-3d-dlp-projector-page-2

"I briefly experimented with the Iris2 (Auto) feature on the Stewart screen. It did dramatically deepen the blacks, with readings as low as 0.001 foot-lamberts. Unfortunately, this feature made itself obvious by pumping the light output abruptly on transitions between bright and dark scenes."

I would probably see this with my new black out treatments. i'll have to check out some dark sci-fi on the 30k tonight and see how it looks. The first 10 minutes of Underworld Evolution can give the iris a workout.

So far it's impressive for a DLP, it reminds me of the Sony HW30 I had a while back. Black floor is just good enough on the HP to not be distracting. Not quite the JVC though.


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post #727 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 08:33 PM
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That low black is what we are looking for a DI to do. Deep black no haze couldn't ask for anything more. The iris is doing a great job on mine.

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post #728 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 08:41 PM
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Anyone can make that happen. It's when it does it's job as subtly as possible that it becomes useful. Otherwise, it's just a distraction. I may be a little more sensitive than most when it comes to DI action, so I have high respect for Sony, Runco (Planar), Sim2, and now Sharp (on the z30k) when it's implemented correctly. I'd rather have "good enough" contrast and black level than have the best contrast and black level if the former does it's job almost invisibly where the latter doesn't.

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post #729 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 09:20 PM
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I have to say it again my projectors DI does such a great non detectable job that I leave it on all the time. I figure the z30000 does things the same, looks like I'm right.

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post #730 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 09:23 PM
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It's just that reviews say otherwise (professional and non-professorial). Plus, like I've said, personal experience with similar units that reach the same native and dynamic contrast ratios have also yielded those results too. It's quite possible that you just aren't as sensitive to it's working as most others are. As long as you stay ignorant to it, that's better for you in the end anyways.

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post #731 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 10:32 PM
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Man I don't hang there straring for any glimpse of a problem and say yeah I got one did you see that! I just enjoy the movie if there's a flutter once in a blue moon I just blow it off. Don't be too anal about it it's a fine projector. The Iris works better than the HD8600 Optoma which is a spin off of the Planar 8150 which I know for a fact.

What's with you guys sturring up trouble all the time? Relax and hang, don't raise your friends blood pressure. smile.gif

COOL OUT

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post #732 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 10:44 PM
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The Sharp 30K has excellent DI. I watched Life of Pi and not once could I detect any pumping.
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post #733 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

The Sharp 30K has excellent DI. I watched Life of Pi and not once could I detect any pumping.

Yey! that's what I'm talking about. I guess you're not sensitive either? Just kidding, glad you enjoyed the movie should I buy that one?

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post #734 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 11:17 PM
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Yey! that's what I'm talking about. I guess you're not sensitive either? Just kidding, glad you enjoyed the movie should I buy that one?

That's the 30k not the 17k that I was talking about. The 30k has a much better DI implementation as noted in several professional reviews.

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post #735 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 11:33 PM
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Get real the DI is the same thing. It's funny how these rumors run rampid. Show me any fact that an examination has been done on the two machines DI in the same place?

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post #736 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Man I don't hang there straring for any glimpse of a problem and say yeah I got one did you see that! I just enjoy the movie if there's a flutter once in a blue moon I just blow it off. Don't be too anal about it it's a fine projector. The Iris works better than the HD8600 Optoma which is a spin off of the Planar 8150 which I know for a fact.

What's with you guys sturring up trouble all the time? Relax and hang, don't raise your friends blood pressure. smile.gif

COOL OUT

You've got a few things mixed up. Yes, both the Planar PD8150 and the Optoma HD8600 were designed by Delta but that doesn't meant they perform anywhere near the same. I've owned a Vivitek H5085 (which is THE SAME projector as the Optoma HD8600). There are a few key differences between the Planar and the Optoma. The Planar uses the .95" DLP DMD versus the .65" DLP DMD. The optics are also not anywhere near as nice on the Optoma. Due to the chip size and optics being nicer the Planar puts up a noticeably sharper image with text and video. The light path is different due to the difference in DLP DMD size. The Planar uses an Osram lamp that utilizes unishape lamp modulation whereas the the Optoma doesn't. The Planar uses much better Gennum processing. The DI system is also worlds better than the Vivitek H5085 which I've read was better than the Optoma's changed algorithms.

I too don't sit there looking for problems. I want to enjoy a movie but if the DI causes things to look odd it distracts me. I don't torture test the machines I get. I play normal content on them and if they look odd or if certain things cause artifacts then yes, I tell people that when they ask for a suggestion. This Sharp projector has a great DI implementation. You really should stop posting things about your Sharp XV-Z17000 as it will confuse people thinking you're talking about the Z30000.

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post #737 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 11:41 PM
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Get real the DI is the same thing. It's funny how these rumors run rampid. Show me any fact that an examination has been done on the two machines DI in the same place?

I'd gladly buy a Z17000K and send it to Zombie so he can do an A/B just to shut you up. Maybe next month...

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post #738 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 11:45 PM
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You'd hv to because nobodys tested the two Di's on these. That's why I call it rumors. Good night dude.

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post #739 of 1661 Old 05-01-2013, 11:48 PM
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What are you talking about? The same person at hometheater.com did the review for the XV-Z17000 and the XV-Z30000. He had the complete opposite to say about the DI on each. I think that's more than proof enough.....

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post #740 of 1661 Old 05-02-2013, 01:55 AM
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I'd gladly buy a Z17000K and send it to Zombie so he can do an A/B just to shut you up
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post #741 of 1661 Old 05-02-2013, 06:03 AM
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I'd gladly buy a Z17000K and send it to Zombie so he can do an A/B just to shut you up. Maybe next month...


If you need help, let me know. I would gladly donate to this cause!

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post #742 of 1661 Old 05-02-2013, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


The native contrast is lower than I was expecting, basically the same as the W7000.

for reference, the Epson 5020 and HW50 are in the 5000:1 range without the iris. The JVC's are significantly higher.

I would guess if you measured it you would find the Sharp is probably double in Native vs. the Benq w7000, still not huge but significant enough I suppose. Perhaps the Sharp's IRIS is better than the Benq's, very possible.
The w7000 really maxes out between 800:1 and 1000:1, I did measure higher in some really crazy-off modes, but they weren't very useable PQ wise or color wise.



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post #743 of 1661 Old 05-02-2013, 07:06 AM
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Hi Guys,
Please, time for a chill pill.
The conflict is distracting at best...

Anyway, I've decided to try and update the new theater room with the larger size Cosmo, cut to fit the wall.
So, I'm selling a bunch of gear from the last set up.
I had no clue (which I'm sure is not surprising) about how to do it. So, I posted on the "Screens" Forum asking for advice.
Here is the thread, including a link to the Classified Add http://www.avsforum.com/t/1470503/how-to-sell-used-screens#post_23270194
If anyone is willing to come to Eugene, I would welcome the chance to meet a fellow AVSer. smile.gif
Thanks,
E.
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post #744 of 1661 Old 05-02-2013, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by humbland View Post

Hi Guys,
Please, time for a chill pill.
The conflict is distracting at best...

Anyway, I've decided to try and update the new theater room with the larger size Cosmo, cut to fit the wall.
So, I'm selling a bunch of gear from the last set up.
I had no clue (which I'm sure is not surprising) about how to do it. So, I posted on the "Screens" Forum asking for advice.
Here is the thread, including a link to the Classified Add http://www.avsforum.com/t/1470503/how-to-sell-used-screens#post_23270194
If anyone is willing to come to Eugene, I would welcome the chance to meet a fellow AVSer. smile.gif
Thanks,
E.[/quote
I am considering to go to the Da Lite Cosmo 130" custom scope screen from my current 100" diagonal 16x9, can you PM me who is the dealer and what quote you get? Thanks.
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post #745 of 1661 Old 05-02-2013, 12:16 PM
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I am considering to go to the Da Lite Cosmo 130" custom scope screen from my current 100" diagonal 16x9, can you PM me who is the dealer and what quote you get? Thanks.

AVS had the best prices the last time I bought a screen.

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post #746 of 1661 Old 05-02-2013, 03:18 PM
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For those curious about the woot deal, the projector has the 3 year US warranty in the box. Only 1 year in Canada.


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post #747 of 1661 Old 05-02-2013, 04:11 PM
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smile.gif Any of you new owners that want to reduce their cost a bit more, I would love to audition your unit in exchange for an agreed on "rental fee" for a couple of days max and include the offer of paying shipping both ways. I would hunt one of these down if anyone had one to go see in action but I can't find one anywhere.


I really need to know the extent of the RBE vs. my Optoma. I love that PJ but the RBE drives me crazy and I would hate to track one of these down only to find it is really no better.

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post #748 of 1661 Old 05-02-2013, 04:35 PM
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Disclosure I have the z17000, anyway I tested the DI hard with the recommended Underworld Evolution and couldn't see any pumping or iris activity. But the first ten minutes of this picture has a ton of flashing lightning it's really hard to tell what you're seeing. I forgot how great the movie is so I got the blu ray for $5, nice waiting to buy. What I use to test a DI is the movie The Game chapter 6 The Briefcase. This scene flops back to Michael Douglas in the dark and the guy he's talking to who's in front of a wall of very bright sun lit windows.

I used this with HD8200 and pumping was obvious, then with the HD8600 which was allot better but still plenty, with this Sharp there was only one spot but the change was so fast if you blinked you'd miss it. For me this DI is doing great. Maybe since mine was on closeout it has a later firmware. Early testers were getting new sample models. It's the only thing I can think of.

So if anybody with the z30000 has The Game look over scene 6.

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post #749 of 1661 Old 05-03-2013, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

For those curious about the woot deal, the projector has the 3 year US warranty in the box. Only 1 year in Canada.

Zombie,
I have a question for you:
Did you compare the focus of the two Z30Ks side by side to determine the optics in each?
You mentioned that the focus and sharpness of the one you purchased was "better" than the one you had borrowed. Was this difference only visible on your extraordinary large screen size?
Is it possible that in all the shipping back and forth, that one was knocked out of alignment, or do you think that it's one of those "luck of the draw issues"?
Finally, how much, if any, difference was apparent on a "normal" (say 100") screen?
Thanks
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post #750 of 1661 Old 05-03-2013, 03:23 PM
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Looks like this topic is turning into a debate.


So I thought I would come in here and just say that if you have this projector and like 3D check out the animated movie "Open Season". The 3D in that movie is great! I can't wait to get my theater room done! I'm on the home stretch...speakers, carpet and seats are next and I will be ordering them next week!

On a different note I got mine from the Groupon deal and I was suppose to get 4 pairs of glasses and only got the two that came with the projector. I still haven't got my other two glasses yet. Anyone else have this problem?

Happy Friday
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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