Sharp XV-Z30000 3D DLP - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Sharp XV-Z30000 3D DLP
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 02:33 AM 09-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpr View Post

Where I can buy one at a reasonable price and a trusted site?

Thanks.

Got a time machine handy?

There are a couple sites from Google shopping directory that have some under $3000, but never bought anything at those sites, some of those sellers have ok reviews. Unfortunately, the reviews from the forums affect the price and availability of some of these lower-QTY distributions. Actually I think this forum has affected pricing of certain units more than we might realize due to people running out and grabbing them when someone reviews it well.

larrimore's Avatar larrimore 05:51 AM 09-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

the grayscale controls actually work well, you can get a near dead on D65 cal from 10-100% IRE. The color space is what's off, but you're going to have to be picky to see the variances.

If you go back a few pages, there's a number of links to buy the lamp, they are ~ $125 depending on which vendor you get it from.

if you get the 30k, definitely buy the Sharp G20 glasses, they are much better than the included glasses.

OK so you were able to dial it in at the 80 IRE level without the "missing" control (has gain but no bias, or vice versa)?

The unit shows "out for delivery" so looks like it will show up at my office sometime today. Unfortunately I will have to stare at the box until I can go home this evening. Adding insult to injury, I have something scheduled all day tomorrow so I may only get a couple of hours with it tonight and then Sunday afternoon/evening. I'll try some of others' settings tonight and will pull out my color meter on Sunday. I have several 3D movies that I bought this week. Cant wait.

I will only have the G10s that came with it, but I also have a couple of universal glasses I like pretty well I will also try. I plan to order the G20s as soon as I check this out and make sure I am happy with it.

Will probably post an update late tonight.
humbland's Avatar humbland 07:11 AM 09-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Got a time machine handy?

There are a couple sites from Google shopping directory that have some under $3000, but never bought anything at those sites, some of those sellers have ok reviews. Unfortunately, the reviews from the forums affect the price and availability of some of these lower-QTY distributions. Actually I think this forum has affected pricing of certain units more than we might realize due to people running out and grabbing them when someone reviews it well.


This site has 100% positive feedback and is net <$3K.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sharp-XV-Z30000-3D-DLP-Front-Projector-/281165573188?pt=US_Video_Projectors&hash=item4176c62c44

It's hard to believe that we could affect pricing, but I wonder about sites like PJ Central or PJ Review. If enough of them pile on positive reviews, then...
When the Z30K came out, the PR Central Blog said that they were going to review it. When it did not happen, I emailed them and asked why (I'm a DLP fan). They emailed back to say that Sharp had decided not to ship it to them... For what ever reason, the lack of (a large number) of online reviews probably affected the demand.
One theory: The Z30K release date coincided with new, lower priced, machines from JVC, Sony and others. Many were priced in the $3.5 to 4K range.
After adding superb 3D, motorized controls, 3 year warranty, etc. Sharp had positioned the Z30K at MSRP $5K. They figured that the market had moved against them and they did not want to compete, in the long run. So, they folded their hand and wrote off the development costs. They then dumped the inventory to wholesalers and moved on. This led to the Woot deals and others...
FWIW, using his particular review parameters, Art at PJ reviews initially had the Z30K near the bottom of his <$5K rankings. So, it may be that Sharp made a rational decision. However, Art also said that at $2K, the Z30K was a no brainer....Go figure.

For what ever reasons, It seems that the Z30K does not have universal appeal.
It works very well for some things, but not so well for others (ie gaming/dark movies).
I'm not surprised that they are available used for <$2K. I'm wondering if Sharp will step up and honor the 3 year warranty to a second owner. If they do, then it's still a great buy, INMO. Even at the current pricing of about $3K, if you need powered lens controls and want great 3D, then it seems a reasonable choice until true 4K machines are in the pipeline at "reasonable" prices. Food for thought: the people who want great 3D and powered lens controls are the people who frequent AVS (and similar). To most of the market, these features are of little benefit. We are a "skewed" sample...
MY $.02.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 07:33 AM 09-13-2013
That's a good assessment of this projector's brief life in the HT world. imo, it was priced too high at a time when the competition was coming down in price and not enough reviews (if the manufacturers are smart, they should start sending me their projectors for review.. .biggrin.gif shoot-out thread is getting close to 400k views!)

The primary strength for me is the 3D. I've seen the majority of the under 10K projectors and this is the one with cleanest 3D I've seen. W7000 was very good, but the contrast suffered overall and especially in 3D due to the use of the DLP link which hurts contrast even further. The Sharp has higher contrast to start with and the use of IR instead of DLP Link was a smart move since blacks look very good in 3D. The one caveat is that the 3D is ~ 200 lumens shy of the competing models. This still works if you use a smaller or high power screen.

@ Larrimore - correct, just adjust the existing controls to level out 80 IRE and the rest will fall in place. If I recall, I had -6 for red, -4 for green. This stayed the same across 3 lamp changes, so it's good to see some consistency between lamps.

If for some reason you don't like the projector, let me know and I'll buy it. I think a 30K stack in 3D would be very cool (and bright as heck on my HP!)
larrimore's Avatar larrimore 08:06 AM 09-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

That's a good assessment of this projector's brief life in the HT world. imo, it was priced too high at a time when the competition was coming down in price and not enough reviews (if the manufacturers are smart, they should start sending me their projectors for review.. .biggrin.gif shoot-out thread is getting close to 400k views!)

The primary strength for me is the 3D. I've seen the majority of the under 10K projectors and this is the one with cleanest 3D I've seen. W7000 was very good, but the contrast suffered overall and especially in 3D due to the use of the DLP link which hurts contrast even further. The Sharp has higher contrast to start with and the use of IR instead of DLP Link was a smart move since blacks look very good in 3D. The one caveat is that the 3D is ~ 200 lumens shy of the competing models. This still works if you use a smaller or high power screen.

@ Larrimore - correct, just adjust the existing controls to level out 80 IRE and the rest will fall in place. If I recall, I had -6 for red, -4 for green. This stayed the same across 3 lamp changes, so it's good to see some consistency between lamps.

If for some reason you don't like the projector, let me know and I'll buy it. I think a 30K stack in 3D would be very cool (and bright as heck on my HP!)

The only thing that would likely make me give it up would be RBE, but I will let you know. I want to use this to replace my plasma TV for casual viewing (sports mostly) as well as 3D, saving my HC5 for 2D movies only.

I am going to have to get to work on a mount setup, although I could mount them beside each other on the ceiling with them both having shift, I am thinking the back wall with a mount that can accommodate any 2 projectors might be ideal.
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 09:46 AM 09-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

This site has 100% positive feedback and is net <$3K.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sharp-XV-Z30000-3D-DLP-Front-Projector-/281165573188?pt=US_Video_Projectors&hash=item4176c62c44

It's hard to believe that we could affect pricing, but I wonder about sites like PJ Central or PJ Review. If enough of them pile on positive reviews, then...
MY $.02.

The forum definitely affected availability of the Sharps, and Sharp did not make that many of them. Qty Left = Affects Price, supply and demand. The forum might not be responsible for the price drop, but it was responsible for them finally selling out at most of the major vendors. Otherwise, the Sharps may have sat there for another 6 months.

Just like the refurb hd8300 deal last year, it sat on this one site around $1499 to $1599 for almost 3 months, 2 days after I posted a link to the deal in the forum, the price was up to $1799, and 2 weeks later it was sold out.
So yah, pretty sure posting low volume units or deals affects the pricing, because it causes it to be sold out and then the only vendors that have any left are usually the higher priced ones.

Units like Epsons and Benq are mass produced and it would be difficult to affect price, so if they sell out they simply send a new order to the Taiwanese factory (or wherever they are made), and then they get a whole new batch in. However, on some of these other units the MFR's are getting out of the projector business, so they are not likely to pay the "back-end overseas manufacturers" for a new batch.

On refurbs or limited offers, the forum can definitely cause price and availability swings. There are a LOT of people reading this forum when it comes to what projector to buy.
humbland's Avatar humbland 12:57 PM 09-13-2013
Interesting...
I remember following the Woot deals on the Z30K and they were piecing them out one or two at a time, despite being trumpeted here and in the Front PJ "Deals" Forum. In fact, they reran the special several times with similar results, as far as I could tell... It would be interesting to know how many were manufactured.
It seems that Sharp is focussing on flat panels. Perhaps the Front Projector market is getting more "mature" and the players are starting to thin out to some extent.
I see it as some sort of sign that live 3D sports broadcasts are being curtailed. If more people were getting on board, I think that they would be expanding coverage.
We need more big screen fanatics! I guess there are only so many of us AVSers to go around...wink.gif
larrimore's Avatar larrimore 12:35 PM 09-15-2013
I am back from my weekend retreat and will spend more time with the Z30000 later tonight. Friday night I was only able to spend about three hours playing around and comparing to my HC5. Here are some initial observations:

First, I was still able to see RBE a bit initially. Interestingly, I saw it frequently at the beginning viewing some movies I had saved from HDNet on my Tivo Premiere. These are all 1080/30i movies. I will say that it is much better than my Optoma and the 5X makes it easily more acceptable. It is still there for me, though. However, after dinner, my wife and I decided to watch a movie in two halves, first half on the Z3K and second half on the HC5. The movie, Star Trek Into Darkness, was on Blu Ray and, of course 1080/24P. The Z3K was in stage mode which I had done a quick cal on with my DVE disc, but for 2D I decided to use the high contrast iris and the variable iris to on- I was shocked at how good it looked. Also, I did not see one instance of RBE during the more than hour first half of the movie. Interesting. Also, I will say that there is no doubt that this is a SHARP projector (pun intiended). It is easily the sharpest I have ever owned and looks great with this Blu Ray transfer. Also, I was at least able to get colors acceptable by using Zombie's settings on green and red.

Second, after reconnecting the HC5, we watched the second half of the movie. The HC5 did not disappoint and I think it is in fact as bright in bright mode as the Sharp in stage mode. This means at least on 3D, there will be little difference in brightness. However, we watched the end of the movie in our normal calibrated mode which is a variant of the Cinema setting. We were surprised that it was very close in brightness to the Sharp in the stage mode with both Iris' engaged.

All I can say is my wife and I agreed there was little to no difference in either unit. Neither she nor I had any comments about blacker blacks on the HC5 (which I expected, but did not see) or any difference in the brightness, noise, etc. Looks like keeping this will come down to a 3D viewing tonight and a discussion on the cost of ownership, which it seems the Sharp should nail.

Looking good so far.
humbland's Avatar humbland 08:19 PM 09-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

I am back from my weekend retreat and will spend more time with the Z30000 later tonight. Friday night I was only able to spend about three hours playing around and comparing to my HC5. Here are some initial observations:

First, I was still able to see RBE a bit initially. Interestingly, I saw it frequently at the beginning viewing some movies I had saved from HDNet on my Tivo Premiere. These are all 1080/30i movies. I will say that it is much better than my Optoma and the 5X makes it easily more acceptable. It is still there for me, though. However, after dinner, my wife and I decided to watch a movie in two halves, first half on the Z3K and second half on the HC5. The movie, Star Trek Into Darkness, was on Blu Ray and, of course 1080/24P. The Z3K was in stage mode which I had done a quick cal on with my DVE disc, but for 2D I decided to use the high contrast iris and the variable iris to on- I was shocked at how good it looked. Also, I did not see one instance of RBE during the more than hour first half of the movie. Interesting. Also, I will say that there is no doubt that this is a SHARP projector (pun intiended). It is easily the sharpest I have ever owned and looks great with this Blu Ray transfer. Also, I was at least able to get colors acceptable by using Zombie's settings on green and red.

Second, after reconnecting the HC5, we watched the second half of the movie. The HC5 did not disappoint and I think it is in fact as bright in bright mode as the Sharp in stage mode. This means at least on 3D, there will be little difference in brightness. However, we watched the end of the movie in our normal calibrated mode which is a variant of the Cinema setting. We were surprised that it was very close in brightness to the Sharp in the stage mode with both Iris' engaged.

All I can say is my wife and I agreed there was little to no difference in either unit. Neither she nor I had any comments about blacker blacks on the HC5 (which I expected, but did not see) or any difference in the brightness, noise, etc. Looks like keeping this will come down to a 3D viewing tonight and a discussion on the cost of ownership, which it seems the Sharp should nail.

Looking good so far.

Good initial review.
How about the rest of your system? Do you have a Darbee and/or a high gain screen?
Was the HC5 as sharp as the Z30K in your split movie comparison?
I encourage you to watch HD sports on both, then get back to us. On the Z30K, I'm watching the Seahawks and 49ers as we speak. Good game (except for the lightening).
Very few of us have seen both the HC5 and the Z30K. Zombie is one of them. I would be curious as to weather or not his findings are similar.
Inquiring minds want to know...wink.gif
larrimore's Avatar larrimore 08:30 PM 09-15-2013
I was able to spend about 5 hours with the Z3K and the HC5 tonight. I am not finished with my evaluation, but I will tell you there is not doubt the Sharp is a "sharper" projector than the HC5. You don't need video to tell you that- a good Blu Ray will show it easily. I am going to spend this week spending 3 or 4 hours at night with the Z3K and will try to report back, but initial findings are that the Sharp is equal to or superior to the HC5 (Elix's findings are excluded) in every way except the color situation. If I can dial in the color with my colorimeter to any acceptable degree, then the Z3K proves to be a much, much better unit for anyone looking for great 2D and 3D in one projector.

My wife is not a projector snob and neither is my daughter, but both of them preferred the Z3K for 2D viewing in a blind test (they sat in front of both projectors and I did not tell them which was which) using a variety of clips, including Animation, Dark Sci-Fi, bright Rom-Com and video programming and at different times. Now, the caveat is that I am not sure either is a film snob like me, so that may have something to do with it. I, on the other hand, like the HC5 for movies but everything else is in favor of the Z3K.

Once I get the full calibration done, I will post more but I can say for sure this is a great projector. Really great.
larrimore's Avatar larrimore 08:35 PM 09-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

Good initial review.
How about the rest of your system? Do you have a Darbee and/or a high gain screen?
Was the HC5 as sharp as the Z30K in your split movie comparison?
I encourage you to watch HD sports on both, then get back to us. On the Z30K, I'm watching the Seahawks and 49ers as we speak. Good game (except for the lightening).
Very few of us have seen both the HC5 and the Z30K. Zombie is one of them. I would be curious as to weather or not his findings are similar.
Inquiring minds want to know...wink.gif

I am using the Darbee. It is in my system after my AVR but before the PJ so I cannot use it with one unit and without the other unless I disconnect it. With it on using the Sharp, I have to bring the sharpness down quite a bit compared to the HC5. I watched sports on both and I am sure the Sharp wins, but it is very close- the sharpness difference is the winner for the Z3K.

If I had to live with one or the other, right now I am leaning toward the Sharp but that is just me. I still love the HC5 as well- and, I don't have to live with just one. We'll see what the wife says she is already floating the "why keep both" argument and maybe in this case it is valid.
Elix's Avatar Elix 08:30 AM 09-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

If I can dial in the color with my colorimeter to any acceptable degree
You won't be able to increase the luminance of reds. They'll still be dull compared to HC5. And blacks were noticeable better on HC5 when I first turned it on. All reviews support this (20000:1 native on HC5 vs. 10000:1 dynamic contrast on Z30000). Also, after watching some content (like the beginning of 1st epison of Game of Thrones where people with torches travel through a tunnel or the first Batman vs. Bane fight scene in Dark Knight Rises) I couldn't get rid of thought that DI on Z30000 ruins the image (due to gamma correction).

I am glad that you're glad though. smile.gif If I could keep Z30000 as a 3D only projector for movies I'd probably keep it too (as I said, 3D gaming is out of question due to input lag).
larrimore's Avatar larrimore 09:54 AM 09-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

You won't be able to increase the luminance of reds. They'll still be dull compared to HC5. And blacks were noticeable better on HC5 when I first turned it on. All reviews support this (20000:1 native on HC5 vs. 10000:1 dynamic contrast on Z30000). Also, after watching some content (like the beginning of 1st epison of Game of Thrones where people with torches travel through a tunnel or the first Batman vs. Bane fight scene in Dark Knight Rises) I couldn't get rid of thought that DI on Z30000 ruins the image (due to gamma correction).

I am glad that you're glad though. smile.gif If I could keep Z30000 as a 3D only projector for movies I'd probably keep it too (as I said, 3D gaming is out of question due to input lag).

You may be right, but tonight is the night I will be seeing what I can do on the calibration front. The plan is to setup three settings: one for general 2D, one for movies and one for 3D. We'll see what I come up with. Remember I said "acceptable" not "perfect". I gave up obsessing over perfection long ago.

Humbland, I did not answer your earlier question- No, I do not use a HP screen, I have a .9 high contrast and a 1.0 matte white. I am using the high contrast right now.


Zombie- can I calibrate the greyscale by using my 2D DVE Blu-ray but turning on the 2D-3D conversion in my Blu-ray Player and then take measurements through the glasses once they are on and synched?
Elix's Avatar Elix 10:07 AM 09-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

Remember I said "acceptable" not "perfect". I gave up obsessing over perfection long ago.
You know, for some people these words are close to synonyms biggrin.gif
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 10:37 AM 09-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post


Zombie- can I calibrate the greyscale by using my 2D DVE Blu-ray but turning on the 2D-3D conversion in my Blu-ray Player and then take measurements through the glasses once they are on and synched?

yes, this should work fine as long as the projector is in 3D mode. I also have a small 3D ISO with the patterns if you have the ability to play back an ISO file.

Have you tried watching any 3D yet?
humbland's Avatar humbland 02:08 PM 09-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

You may be right, but tonight is the night I will be seeing what I can do on the calibration front. The plan is to setup three settings: one for general 2D, one for movies and one for 3D. We'll see what I come up with. Remember I said "acceptable" not "perfect". I gave up obsessing over perfection long ago.

Humbland, I did not answer your earlier question- No, I do not use a HP screen, I have a .9 high contrast and a 1.0 matte white. I am using the high contrast right now.


Zombie- can I calibrate the greyscale by using my 2D DVE Blu-ray but turning on the 2D-3D conversion in my Blu-ray Player and then take measurements through the glasses once they are on and synched?

The high contrast screen should give great backs, but how does it work for brightness?
I had a grey screen, but decided that I liked the high gain screen better. Having said that, the HP 2.8 only yields about 1.3 from the high ceiling mount. That's more than enough for the Z30K, at least with a newer lamp.
BTW, I too let go of perfect years ago. Enjoyment is where it's at...
Have fun with it. smile.gif
larrimore's Avatar larrimore 03:33 PM 09-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

yes, this should work fine as long as the projector is in 3D mode. I also have a small 3D ISO with the patterns if you have the ability to play back an ISO file.

Have you tried watching any 3D yet?

Yes, we watched Pirates of the Caribbean (latest) from Vudu 3D, which I own for a while and it looked spectacular. Tonight I will try the calibration and then try my favorites, Hubble, Coral Reef and one of the animations I have. Please send me the ISO if you can. My HTPC is old but does support 3D if there is not a lot of motion, it works fine.
larrimore's Avatar larrimore 03:40 PM 09-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

The high contrast screen should give great backs, but how does it work for brightness?
I had a grey screen, but decided that I liked the high gain screen better. Having said that, the HP 2.8 only yields about 1.3 from the high ceiling mount. That's more than enough for the Z30K, at least with a newer lamp.
BTW, I too let go of perfect years ago. Enjoyment is where it's at...
Have fun with it. smile.gif

I like the high contrast for how it sheds ambient light for Sports (having people over in a dark room for sports leads to many spilled beers smile.gif ), so I like it. I am OK with the lumens so far, although I have this on a temporary location on a high table in the middle of the screen and my ceiling mount is higher.

Look, I am a DLP fiend and drive extra distance for my local DLP Cinema (as someone said in one of the first DLP threads, "there is just something THERE with DLP") and a hyper-sensitive RBE individual. Not a pretty combination! I had all but given up on single chip DLP for my home use until the Optoma with its "6X Color Wheel" which we now know is actually 3X on 2d (thanks Elix). This is the first projector that I can get excited about in a long time on that front.

Can you tell I am excited?
humbland's Avatar humbland 08:31 PM 09-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

I like the high contrast for how it sheds ambient light for Sports (having people over in a dark room for sports leads to many spilled beers smile.gif ), so I like it. I am OK with the lumens so far, although I have this on a temporary location on a high table in the middle of the screen and my ceiling mount is higher.

Look, I am a DLP fiend and drive extra distance for my local DLP Cinema (as someone said in one of the first DLP threads, "there is just something THERE with DLP") and a hyper-sensitive RBE individual. Not a pretty combination! I had all but given up on single chip DLP for my home use until the Optoma with its "6X Color Wheel" which we now know is actually 3X on 2d (thanks Elix). This is the first projector that I can get excited about in a long time on that front.

Can you tell I am excited?

+1 on the DLP fan.
To me, the native sharpness is almost as important as having great blacks...
I'm excited by your enthusiasm.
Also, it's nice to keep this thread going. I'm hoping that Zombie will keep pushing the performance envelope and share his 2D observations. smile.gif
larrimore's Avatar larrimore 05:32 AM 09-17-2013
Life happened last night and I had a project for work I had to bring home with me, so no time to do any calibration- and it may take me most of the week on the project so it may be the weekend. I did get to go to the media room for a little watching during Monday Night Football while I worked.

A few observations:

The detail enhancer really pumps up the noise in the picture when in higher settings, much more than other DEs I have seen. Leave it on very low or off. If you have the Darbee like me, off is the only setting. The Darbee on 45% makes this an even better projector, IMHO.

Turning the Iris 1 to High Contrast really makes the blacks pop in 2D. With Iris 1 in this setting and Iris 2 on as well, Stage mode becomes a bright version of the Cinema mode- I am probably going to use this setting for my every day viewing once I get the grey scale close.

The "zoom" modes work well. If you like to do away with black bars on 2.35 content, this one works the best I have seen. Smart mode is also very good and takes the 2.35:1 content to about 2.0:1 and shrinks the black bars considerably. I don't use these, but they are good implementations. Looks like there is no mode for an anamorphic lens though, which is strange on a $5K MSRP projector even though this one has poor man's anamorphic support.

I have completely lost the RBE on this projector after about 10 hours of viewing. I went back to one scene that drove me crazy the first day I fired it up and did not see it at all. Interesting.

Sports looks great on this projector but also causes the poor color implementation to really jump out at you- team colors are one thing that any fan will notice when they are off. I recorded a couple of games so I can take a look at it post calibration- I went from the media room to our family room which has a fully calibrated display and the colors are definitely wrong (as everyone has acknowledged, but I thought some of it could be the lighting the game was in) enough for any sports fan to notice. If you want to test your display, BTW, the Packers are the perfect test. That shade of yellow becomes really different when there is too much of any one color in the image.

More to come later.
humbland's Avatar humbland 08:27 AM 09-17-2013
The Z30K image seemed "different" to me when we first got it. I thought that the out of the box performance was somewhat disappointing. We were coming from a high end Benq and my expectations were probably unrealistic. The Benq had been professonally calibrated and tweaked for the environment. The Z30K was coming into a less than ideal mounting and was without calibration.
Also, out of the box the Z30K had a few quirks, like my "phantom turn on" issue. Others (some here) jumped on the Z30K immediately after getting it, for poor color, etc.
I think my expectations were tempered by the off the charts "bang for the buck" value. Also, Art at PJ review said that he would be comfortable having the Z30K in his own theater.
After living with the PJ and tweaking the settings and the "set up", I have a different perspective... The Z30K is not a great out of the box. Sony, JVC and others have worked out the "plug and play" aspect in a much more refined manner. This initial refinement gives them a big edge in the "casual" HT market. Looking back, almost all of the "Pro" reviews commented on how this PJ needs adjustment. I feel like market forces conspired to keep this PJ from getting a good long term "shake". Having said this, the Z30K with help from Zombie (and others) is capable of amazing performance in both 2D and 3D. It has formidable competition in the $3-4K marketplace. At <$2K, with a 3 year waranty...
In any case, there is one point that does not get mentioned that much. This PJ excels at flexibility. The powered lens memory makes it ideal for CIH or a two screen set up. The variable image offset allows for several different mounting locations. The Z30K seems a great choice for the HT enthusiast that is willing to tweak for extra performance (like many AVSers). Out of the box, not so much...
The defense rests.
wink.gif
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 08:56 AM 09-17-2013
I had a chance recently to run the Planar 8130 (Runco LS-3) and Sharp 30K side by side. The Planar can achieve a near perfect color calibration for grayscale, gamma and color gamut so this can be used for a reference.

in high lamp, the 30k color gamut can appear generally over-saturated vs. a reference cal. If you want to knock this down a bit, you can lower the color setting, but only a few click (-5 max). The gamut looks more muted with low lamp and with the 1st iris set to 'high contrast'.

grayscale should not need a major adjustment, I'm using -6 on the red, -4 on the green with 3 different lamps I tired. Gamma tuning is a little frustrating, the changes are coarse, so you can 't adjust more than a click up or down or it will cause a wide change. It can be done, just take your time with the adjustments. It's nice that it can adjust in increments of 5% below 30IRE for fine tuning. Lower IRE is where the shadow detail is in low APL scenes so tuning it well can make a difference (on any projector).

sharpness - the Planar was a relatively expensive projector when it was new and has a very good lens with a larger DMD panel @ .95 vs the Sharp @ .65. Very close to the screen, the Planar has an advantage of better pixel definition vs. the Sharp, but not day/night, it's closer than I was expecting. From seating distance (14 feet from the 142") they look surprisingly similar in perceived sharpness. This is with the detail control on the Sharp turned all the way down to 0. This leads me to believe there still might be some mild processing going on, but the 30K is very good for a .65 projector.

The sharpness in 3D is what get's me interested in this projector. It's more natural than a projector like the Sony HW50 which really need the RC turned on in 3D (on my larger screen). I can see the RC artifacts more so in 3D vs 2D and the 30K really excels here vs. the Sony in 3D.
airscapes's Avatar airscapes 09:27 AM 09-17-2013
Zombie what do you think of the DI on the planar? The DI on my 8150 does not work correctly at all.. I have yet to disassemble the light tunnel to get a looks at it and probably won't.. guess it could just need cleaning. Native black on low without the DI is better than my old HC3000 but it would be nice to have it a little darker during credits and such.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 11:12 AM 09-17-2013
I have to spend more time with it, but overall it looks good from what I've seen far. Since the 8130/8150 have the same native contrast, it seems like your missing some of the PQ based on cine4home's dynamic measurements.

I would definitely be taking that projector apart to see if it's something simple. It looks relatively straight-forward from the internal shots i've seen.
airscapes's Avatar airscapes 11:49 AM 09-17-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I have to spend more time with it, but overall it looks good from what I've seen far. Since the 8130/8150 have the same native contrast, it seems like your missing some of the PQ based on cine4home's dynamic measurements.

I would definitely be taking that projector apart to see if it's something simple. It looks relatively straight-forward from the internal shots i've seen.

I have had it open more than once.. lots of ground wires not connected or loose, etc etc.. it is like a old chevy Nova.. been apart more than once by people who know not what they were doing. But have not gotten into breaking down the light tunnel. Does not look like I can just remove the DI.. the actuator maybe but not the shutters.. not willing to take a chance on breaking something else. There is no Free support and I even got blown off when asking about service from my local dealer.. if you are not to Original owner they don't want to know you..
We watch 90% HD TV so black level not all the important
larrimore's Avatar larrimore 02:02 PM 09-17-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

...

grayscale should not need a major adjustment, I'm using -6 on the red, -4 on the green with 3 different lamps I tired. Gamma tuning is a little frustrating, the changes are coarse, so you can 't adjust more than a click up or down or it will cause a wide change. It can be done, just take your time with the adjustments. It's nice that it can adjust in increments of 5% below 30IRE for fine tuning. Lower IRE is where the shadow detail is in low APL scenes so tuning it well can make a difference (on any projector).

Is the greyscale pretty consistent across modes? In other words, is your setting above the same for 2D and 3D in stage mode? Is there a tint to the Sharp glasses that affect the greyscale much?
larrimore's Avatar larrimore 05:35 AM 09-19-2013
Humbland and others:

How do you have your IR sender mounted? I noticed that I am losing synch with the glasses by casually laying the sender on top of the unit (without the pedestal). I really don't want to run the Sender across the room to the front, I have always just let it bounce off the screen with the sender at the projector location.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 07:06 AM 09-19-2013
I have the Sharp on my shelf mount with the IR sender aimed at the screen. I found the G20 glasses seem to have a much better IR lock vs. the glasses that are included with the projector.

With the G20's, I never lose the signal.
humbland's Avatar humbland 07:27 AM 09-19-2013
I followed the directions and mounted the sender on the ceiling in the front of the room. I adjusted the pedestal so that the IR fired directly down at the seating area at about 45 degrees. The included cord is very long. We had an extension (25 foot stereo headphone cable from Radio Shack) on hand, but did not need it. We anchored the cord with black cable staples. The whole job took about 15 minutes...
The IR synch is excellent. It works well with all three types of glasses we have tried (Sony PS, G10 and G20).
The 3D is indeed outstanding. However a little can go a long way. We watched Spiderman in 3D and the whole family had vertigo from the aerial scenes...wink.gif

I feel as if I have the Z30K dialed in for Sports and 3D, but I'm still searching for consistent Bluray Movie settings.
Zombie, you also have a 2.8 HP screen. For most movies, the 2D brightness is actually too high with the custom setting I had been using. I've gone back to the stock "Movie #1" with some color and sharpness tweaks.
Now that you have played with it for awhile, have you settled on 2D settings that work well for most movies (not just dark scifi)?
Thanks
Josh Z's Avatar Josh Z 11:06 AM 09-19-2013
I had a lot of trouble with IR sync, even with the G20 glasses, until I sucked it up and moved the emitter to the front of the room. Synch kept dropping in and out when I had it in the back aimed at my screen.
Tags: Mitsubishi Hc5 , Sharp An3dg20b 3d Glasses Black Single , Sharp He Xvz17000 300 Inch 1080p Front Projector , Benq W7000 Home Projection System , Panasonic Viera Tc P65vt50 65 Inch Plasma Tv , Sharp Xv Z30000 Dlp
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