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post #1531 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 07:20 AM
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The Planar color is very good, I don't think you will be disappointed. In a direct A/B, the Planar has the better overall PQ / perceived contrast.

having said that, I use the 30K as my main projector for just about everything. HDTV, light video games, kids animations and 3D. I like how fast it boots up and the lamps are cheap.

It also has some of the best 3D i've seen out of all the projectors i've had here, so for that alone, it's worth keeping.

Planar-Sharp.jpg
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post #1532 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The Planar color is very good, I don't think you will be disappointed. In a direct A/B, the Planar has the better overall PQ / perceived contrast.

having said that, I use the 30K as my main projector for just about everything. HDTV, light video games, kids animations and 3D. I like how fast it boots up and the lamps are cheap.

It also has some of the best 3D i've seen out of all the projectors i've had here, so for that alone, it's worth keeping.

Planar-Sharp.jpg

This is from the dept of redundancy dept:
If you are anal about color accuracy, then the Z30K is not the right choice.

Zombie,
It is amazing that with all the high end units you have, you are still using the Sharp as your MAIN projector...I rest my case.
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post #1533 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 07:38 AM
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The 1000 is a great projector but it takes a while to warm up until the convergence settles in so I use it mainly for movies. I would use the Planar more, but the throw distance doesn't really work in my setup.

it's mainly about convenience. It's bright @ 900+ lumens, fast boot up and the lamps are cheap. I leave it on for 6-8 hours without thinking about it. Plus the 3D is nice on this model.. zero flicker or x-talk and it has my favorite 3D glasses.

it's certainly not perfect, but still find it quite a bargain @ the woot deal price.
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post #1534 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 09:06 AM
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I have the projector from two weeks ago and am very happy with the purchase.
The 3D is impressive !!!

I have a Runco LS5 and I bought the Sharp Z30k only for 3D, but I must admit that in 2D also does an excellent job.
The Runco LS5 is more sharper due to chip 0.95", has better contrast and black level, and better color. Although the Z30K is very sharper and has good color but not perfect as the Runco LS5.

With the first 3D movie I tried in Z30K Rapunzel (Stage Mode), I observed dithering in some scenes but setting The Enhancement Color to 0 and Color control down to -4 this noise disappear. Leaving these settings I have not seen any of dithering in the movies I've seen.

The IR emitter has the Z30K has less range than the JVC. Pointing the emitter directly to the screen, I get the signal perfectly in the first row of seats but not in the second row. Instead, with the JVC was covering the entire room.
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post #1535 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 09:07 AM
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Glad to see this thread is still alive and kicking.

Zombie: How many hours have you put on the replacement lamps? Any noticeable dimming compared to the lamps that ship with the unit? I can't really tell any difference as yet because I only have about 200 hours on The 30K with the original lamp, and less than 100 hours on the one with the replacement installed. I'm trying to balance the usage out over time, and will keep testing the output with a light meter every 100 - 200 hours or so. In my case though, this comparison is going to take a very long time.

Dylan: What picture mode did you select to calibrate from? I have been using "Stage" with excellent results for 3D as well as 2D. I keep IRIS 1 set for 'high brightness', and IRIS 2 on 'auto'.

Zombie: Do you prefer to leave the the DI on or off?
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post #1536 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post


There are a few scenes I use to specifically test a DI's performance and the Sharp slipped up a little bit more on these torture scenes than the PD8150 did. Other than those torture scenes I only saw it slip up once or twice. And what I mean is that, in these scenes, there was a quick mixture of extremely dark and extremely bright images and the software just wasn't sure which way the next bunch of frames were leaning towards in terms of APL and accidentally chose the wrong way to move the iris and as a result you see the brightness change in an obvious way. As noted, this was an extremely rare occurrence and most people probably wouldn't really notice....

Seegs108,

What scenes do you use to test the DI?
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post #1537 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

having said that, I use the 30K as my main projector for just about everything. HDTV, light video games, kids animations and 3D. I like how fast it boots up and the lamps are cheap.
On a side note, lamps for Planar PD8150/Runco LS-5 are just as cheap as for Sharp XV-Z30000 smile.gif You may find one for 90-100$. The model number is Osram P-VIP 180-230/1.0 E20.6. I already ordered 3. My main concern is DLP chip, electronic circuit and mechanical (cooling and DI) longevity.
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post #1538 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The 1000 is a great projector but it takes a while to warm up until the convergence settles in so I use it mainly for movies. I would use the Planar more, but the throw distance doesn't really work in my setup.

it's mainly about convenience. It's bright @ 900+ lumens, fast boot up and the lamps are cheap. I leave it on for 6-8 hours without thinking about it. Plus the 3D is nice on this model.. zero flicker or x-talk and it has my favorite 3D glasses.

it's certainly not perfect, but still find it quite a bargain @ the woot deal price.

I'm going to post this here simply because Sharp's are very hard to come by and there are still a few Mits floating around.

I think you under-rated the Mitsubishi hc7900 / hc8000 (or you had a bad sample), because it did not work on your screen and screen size, no offense. I just got my hc7900 in, it seems to be better than the Benq w7000 IMO other than brightness.

Things that are different on my unit than yours were:


1) The hc7900 I received has no focus uniformity problem at all, the focus uniformity is virtually as perfect as the JVC or w7000, It is sharper than the Epson 5020 and 5010 I've seen. The hc4000's I've seen all had some focus uniformity issue, this projector FIXES that, it does not share (at least my sample) the same focus uniformity issue that all my hc4000's had. I'll have pictures at the end of the week showing my CLOSEUP EAGLE IMAGE between all 3 projectors overlapped.

2) Although not quite as sharp as the w7000 on TEXT when at +1, I'd say natively it might actually be sharper, the only issue is that the Mits sharpening algorithm is lacking on text. When I turn both the w7000 and hc7900 to ZERO sharpness, I'd say the Mits has a slight advantage, only when I set them both to +1 does it appear the Benq takes back a slight advantage. Seems to me its just a poor sharpening algorithm (but not that bad, only slightly). I'm going to try to run it through a third-party sharpening that will affect text and see if I can make it sharper looking than the w7000.

IMO, the hc7900/hc8000 is the sharpest sub-$2000 projector NATIVELY without enhancements, and might actually be the sharpest NATIVELY under $4000 (still evaluating) other than the JVC's. When comparing many of these PJ's with no enhancements, the Mits seems unnaturally sharp for a 0.65" DLP.

3) The hc7900 was said to be slightly brighter than the hc8000, it's too bright on my 106" HP screen even mounted for only 1.3 gain. It's about right for 3D, but too bright for 2D. Lamps are so cheap (I can get them under $100), that I don't really care about it not being as bright as the w7000 to be honest.

4) There is a white-level uniformity issue (red tint) on the bottom left (and slightly on entire left side), but I've seen this on about 70% of DLP's I've owned. It always wears off after a few hundred hours. Since it's only in the bottom left corner, not enough to bother me really. It has something to do with the lamp wear-in process needing to lose more red and auto-balance itself. It's not really noticeable in video so much unless I am looking for it.

5) The OOTB color accuracy is similar to the w7000, a bit too much red on the hc7900 vs. too much green on the w7000. At 200 hours should be closer.

6) WOW it's so QUIET, this thing is as quiet as my JVC is on lamp low. Crazy quiet, quietest DLP I've ever owned by far, and actually probably the quietest projector on LOW overall. I have to put my ear right up to it to hear it. The Benq is way way louder, not even close.

I'm still evaluating VIDEO, this is as far as I have gotten.


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post #1539 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fpr View Post

Seegs108,

What scenes do you use to test the DI?

I don't have all the movies and time markers written down anywhere. I'll have to compile a list at some point and post it so people can test out the various scenes with projectors that utilize a DI.
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post #1540 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 02:30 PM
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I'm going to post this here simply because Sharp's are very hard to come by and there are still a few Mits floating around.

I think you under-rated the Mitsubishi hc7900 / hc8000 (or you had a bad sample), because it did not work on your screen and screen size, no offense. I just got my hc7900 in, it seems to be better than the Benq w7000 IMO other than brightness.

Things that are different on my unit than yours were:


1) The hc7900 I received has no focus uniformity problem at all, the focus uniformity is virtually as perfect as the JVC or w7000, It is sharper than the Epson 5020 and 5010 I've seen. The hc4000's I've seen all had some focus uniformity issue, this projector FIXES that, it does not share (at least my sample) the same focus uniformity issue that all my hc4000's had.

2) Although not quite as sharp as the w7000 on TEXT when at +1, I'd say natively it might actually be sharper, the only issue is that the Mits sharpening algorithm is lacking on text. When I turn both the w7000 and hc7900 to ZERO sharpness, I'd say the Mits has a slight advantage, only when I set them both to +1 does it appear the Benq takes back a slight advantage. Seems to me its just a poor sharpening algorithm (but not that bad, only slightly). I'm going to try to run it through a third-party sharpening that will affect text and see if I can make it sharper looking than the w7000.

IMO, the hc7900/hc8000 is the sharpest sub-$2000 projector other than the w7000.

3) The hc7900 was said to be slightly brighter than the hc8000, it's too bright on my 106" HP screen even mounted for only 1.3 gain. It's about right for 3D, but too bright for 2D. Lamps are so cheap (I can get them under $100), that I don't really care about it not being as bright as the w7000 to be honest.

4) There is a white-level uniformity issue (red tint) on the bottom left (and slightly on entire left side), but I've seen this on about 70% of DLP's I've owned. It always wears off after a few hundred hours. Since it's only in the bottom left corner, not enough to bother me really. It has something to do with the lamp wear-in process needing to lose more red and auto-balance itself. It's not really noticeable in video so much unless I am looking for it.

5) The OOTB color accuracy is similar to the w7000, a bit too much red on the hc7900 vs. too much green on the w7000. At 200 hours should be closer.

I'm still evaluating VIDEO, this is as far as I have gotten.

Wow, the Mitsubishi HC7900DW is better than the W7000? That leaves me with little faith in the overall PQ of the W7000. I agree with Zombie about the Mitsubishi not being all that impressive. If the Mitsubishi is better than the BenQ then this Sharp projector is a big step up over both of those units. My Z30K has better focus uniformity compared to the Mitsubishi HC7800D and the HC7900DW. I would even say my lens on this Z30K is a hair better at resolving pixels. Overall its a sharper image. Contrast performance is on another level over the 7900DW. The Sharp has more subjective native contrast over the HC7900DW's dynamic contrast. As I mentioned in my mini-review of the Sharp, the DI on the 7900DW doesn't do much to increase contrast. All around performance in just about every area that matters is better on this Sharp unit.
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post #1541 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 02:37 PM
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Look. I'm sitting 10 feet away from the screen and reading this forum (the text). I'm telling you, there is NO focus uniformity issue on my unit. I can prove it with pictures, it's about equal to the JVC or Benq, so close not to matter. The EPsons I've seen were WAY worse on focus uniformity, and even they were not bad. Must be sample variance then.

NATIVELY with no enhancements, looks sharper than the w7000 (at least my sample). Again, I'll post pics. Yes the sharpening algorithm at +1 doesn't help much, and at +2 is a total joke causing crazy ringing in text, but NATIVELY speaking, this appears sharper than the w7000 and the JVC. IT's the sharpest projector I've ever seen natively speaking other than the LS-5, but the enhancement sux. If you want the sharpest text on this thing, you need a third-party sharpening filter that works good on text (not Darbee or RC, something more for text). That said, I can live with the text the way it is, because the text is almost as sharp as the JVC or Benq is when those have enhancements on, even though the Mits enhancements does basically nothing to help increase text sharpness.


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post #1542 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Wow, the Mitsubishi HC7900DW is better than the W7000? That leaves me with little faith in the overall PQ of the W7000. I agree with Zombie about the Mitsubishi not being all that impressive. If the Mitsubishi is better than the BenQ then this Sharp projector is a big step up over both of those units. My Z30K has better focus uniformity compared to the Mitsubishi HC7800D and the HC7900DW. I would even say my lens on this Z30K is a hair better at resolving pixels. Overall its a sharper image. Contrast performance is on another level over the 7900DW. The Sharp has more subjective native contrast over the HC7900DW's dynamic contrast. As I mentioned in my mini-review of the Sharp, the DI on the 7900DW doesn't do much to increase contrast. All around performance in just about every area that matters is better on this Sharp unit.

I'll measure the native contrast shortly, not to that point yet. You can trust my measurements because I always do it from an AMP'd up position, I am the only one to ever measure the hc4000 correctly :P

The DI is adjustable in the service menu on the hc7900, but I haven't played with it yet.

I seriously doubt the z30k has much higher NATIVE than the hc8000 (maybe than the hc7900). The z30k has the better DI, no doubt, but from measurements I've seen taken, the hc8000 and z30k are about the same for NATIVE on/off contrast.


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post #1543 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 03:02 PM
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If you need a reference to contrast performance of this unit, check here:

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/sharp-xv-z30000-3d-dlp-video-projector-ht-labs-measures

It's quite thorough and gives numbers with different lamp, manual and dynamic iris settings. In high lamp mode, with the manual iris open all the way and the DI turned off the contrast is 1722:1 with a black level of 0.0096 ft-L. That's decent considering there's no lens offset like the the HC7900DW/HC8000D.

Edit: Looking at the HC8000D review S&V did, they measured (with the manual iris set to "high contrast)
Quote:
With the Iris on but the Auto iris off, in the High Contrast setting, the peak white level increased to 18.52 ft-L and the black level to 0.01 ft-L, for a full-on/full-off contrast ratio to 1,852:1."

The HC7900DW doesn't have a "high contrast" manual iris so I'm going to assume that native contrast is even lower.
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post #1544 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 03:04 PM
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There was nothing specifically wrong with the 8000 I had, I just like the 30K better for the flexible lens shift (+ motorized is nice) and the G20 glasses alone are worth the entry price.

I don't know what the fire sale price is on the 8000, I know they were giving away the 7900's recently, so you definitely win on cost. The lack of a real lens shift could be a turn off for most but maybe not at the cheap price it's going for.

Seegs - did you check out 3D yet?

ps. I preferred the iris on the 30K vs. the Mitsubishi
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post #1545 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 03:07 PM
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The Optoma hd8300 is most likely the Native on/off champ out of all of these.
1800:1 is nothing to brag about, my $500 Viewsonic is 1200:1 and can even do 1500:1 if I mess it up.

The w7000 is 900:1 to 1100:1 in useable modes, but you can get it higher by messing up the image by using the service menu (but it'll be blown out).
The w1070 is about the same, maybe 1200:1 to 1500:1 (I did measure it, but not in same environment, but my measurement was close enough).

The Mitsubishi hc4000 is 3800:1 on/off at max throw, blows every other 0.65" DLP away in Native contrast (but it has no IRIS). No idea what the hc8000 is, but if I recall correctly 1800:1 was what I remember, with one guy measuring 2500:1 and don't recall the third measurement.


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post #1546 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The Optoma hd8300 is most likely the Native on/off champ out of all of these.
1800:1 is nothing to brag about, my $500 Viewsonic is 1200:1 and can even do 1500:1 if I mess it up.

The w7000 is 900:1 to 1100:1 in useable modes, but you can get it higher by messing up the image by using the service menu (but it'll be blown out).
The w1070 is about the same, maybe 1200:1.

The Mitsubishi hc4000 is 3800:1 on/off at max throw, blows every other 0.65" DLP away in Native contrast (but it has no IRIS). No idea what the hc8000 is.

Check my edited post a above for HC8000D measurements. S&V's test bench page for the HC8000D can be found here.
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post #1547 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

There was nothing specifically wrong with the 8000 I had, I just like the 30K better for the flexible lens shift (+ motorized is nice) and the G20 glasses alone are worth the entry price.

I don't know what the fire sale price is on the 8000, I know they were giving away the 7900's recently, so you definitely win on cost. The lack of a real lens shift could be a turn off for most but maybe not at the cheap price it's going for.

Seegs - did you check out 3D yet?

ps. I preferred the iris on the 30K vs. the Mitsubishi

Well yours had a focus uniformity issue, mine doesn't have that. I think it's just luck of the draw.
Also my white-level uniformity error isn't that bad, about the same as an average Epson, but the good thing about DLP's is this fixes itself over time on the lamp.


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post #1548 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

There was nothing specifically wrong with the 8000 I had, I just like the 30K better for the flexible lens shift (+ motorized is nice) and the G20 glasses alone are worth the entry price.

I don't know what the fire sale price is on the 8000, I know they were giving away the 7900's recently, so you definitely win on cost. The lack of a real lens shift could be a turn off for most but maybe not at the cheap price it's going for.

Seegs - did you check out 3D yet?

ps. I preferred the iris on the 30K vs. the Mitsubishi

Yeah, I watched about 2 hours worth last night. My Z30K came with 2 pairs of G10 glasses, not the G20's I was hoping for. frown.gif

So what I did instead was use the IR receiver I got with my MonsterVision emitter and use that with the EStar emitter and glasses. There is NO flicker at all, not a trace of ghosting and subjective brightness and contrast is excellent on this unit. Very impressive 3D. Its the best I've ever seen.
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post #1549 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 03:19 PM
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So the hc8000 and the Sharp were measured the same Native On/Off Contrast.

The Sharp is only slightly brighter than the hc8000, right?

So seems the only real advantage of the Sharp is the placement flexibility and smoother DI and motorized controls.
That's a good advantage, but there are no new Sharp's anymore for a good price, seems like the hc7900 or hc8000 is the next best thing other than the Benq w7500.

Someone supposedly measured the new w7500 at 1800:1 on/off, but I have my doubts. It will be interesting to see which IRIS works better, a tuned up w7000 IRIS vs. a tuned up hc7900 IRIS.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


ps. I preferred the iris on the 30K vs. the Mitsubishi

Did you adjust the IRIS in the Mits service menu?


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post #1551 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I don't have all the movies and time markers written down anywhere. I'll have to compile a list at some point and post it so people can test out the various scenes with projectors that utilize a DI.

I could be grateful if you compile a list of the movies with time markers and post it.

Thanks.
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post #1552 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 03:45 PM
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Just FYI from my perspective:

The only movie I ever use to Test IRIS's is Tree of Life, simply because I've been using this same scene for so long that it is burned into my head. The flame scene is the first test (the red flame), then the following space scenes are great tests. I'm sure there are other tests just as good or better, but I've not yet seen any really, I mean the flickering red flame in the middle of the screen is hard to beat for an IRIS test.

Of course then you do have to watch normal content to see how the IRIS reacts overall, but I mean if you just need a quick evaluation test, that one is a good.
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post #1553 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

So the hc8000 and the Sharp were measured the same Native On/Off Contrast.

The Sharp is only slightly brighter than the hc8000, right?

So seems the only real advantage of the Sharp is the placement flexibility and smoother DI and motorized controls.
That's a good advantage, but there are no new Sharp's anymore for a good price, seems like the hc7900 or hc8000 is the next best thing other than the Benq w7500.

Someone supposedly measured the new w7500 at 1800:1 on/off, but I have my doubts. It will be interesting to see which IRIS works better, a tuned up w7000 IRIS vs. a tuned up hc7900 IRIS.

Check the numbers at S&V. The Mitsubishi has to close it's manual iris to achieve roughly the same contrast as the Sharp. The Sharp's light path is completely open without an iris to get the same amount of contrast. This means that the native contrast is definitely higher on the Sharp. I found that high lamp mode, with the manual iris in high contrast and the dynamic iris turned on gives exceptional subjective contrast performance for a DLP machine, especially considering it's using the lower performance .65" DLP DMD. Also, unlike the Mitsubishi the dynamic iris is one of the best out there on the Sharp. As previously mentioned it performs about 95% as good as the one in the PD8150 going off of memory.
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post #1554 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 05:04 PM
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I am sure the Sharp is better, but it's very expensive, it's double the price of the hc8000 and quadruple the price of the hc7900.
I just bought the hc7900 because it was so cheap, but my first impressions of the black levels are that they are definitely lacking without the IRIS. However, I haven't tested the IRIS yet, but will do in a sec.

The blacks on the 7900 look similar to the w7000, but haven't really tested it enough to say for sure.

That said, the hc7900 has better color, it's got perfect accuracy after a calibration. Sharpness is not an issue, trying to say to buy one or the other due to sharpness is really cutting microscopic hairs, the w7000, RS-45, and hc7900 are all in the same range sharpness-wise. I have seen lots of sub-$2000 projectors, the hc7900 is the best in sharpness right up there with the w7000.


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post #1555 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 05:28 PM
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"Very expensive" is kind of subjective. Let's put it this way. If I were in the market for an all-in-one projector around the $2000 mark and had the chance to get the Sharp XV-Z30000 or the Mitsubishi HC8000D for a little less (around $1400), knowing what I now know, I wouldn't waste my time or money with the Mitsubishi. I feel that the Sharp is THAT much better overall and I've only spent around 8 hours with the unit so far and I already feel that way.
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post #1556 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 06:00 PM
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Well if you can get one around $2000 new, but I kind of doubt it. I see them around $3000+.


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post #1557 of 1661 Old 03-18-2014, 06:07 PM
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Yeah, the days of finding them for less than $3000 are over I think. But even still that's a good deal considering the stellar 2D and 3D performance.
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post #1558 of 1661 Old 03-19-2014, 12:19 AM
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Yah the IRIS is pretty useless on the hc7900, causes a flickering like effect. I'd say the IRIS on the w7000 is better, even though it's not great either. I'll probably send the hc7900 back just because I think I've got too many projectors, though it'd make a good replacement for the Viewsonic. I could just resale it, but figure an RMA is easier.

That said, it's a definite steal for $799 and the picture quality is very similar to the w7000 other than the brightness being less. However, the hc7900 is pretty bright.


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post #1559 of 1661 Old 03-19-2014, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Just FYI from my perspective:

The only movie I ever use to Test IRIS's is Tree of Life, simply because I've been using this same scene for so long that it is burned into my head. The flame scene is the first test (the red flame), then the following space scenes are great tests. I'm sure there are other tests just as good or better, but I've not yet seen any really, I mean the flickering red flame in the middle of the screen is hard to beat for an IRIS test.

Of course then you do have to watch normal content to see how the IRIS reacts overall, but I mean if you just need a quick evaluation test, that one is a good.

I have not seen this movie. In that minute this scene occurs approximately?

Thanks
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post #1560 of 1661 Old 03-19-2014, 06:27 AM
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It's in the very beginning iirc.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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