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post #181 of 202 Old 07-17-2013, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

like you said the W7000 didn't do 'initially', then what was it doing?

See here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1382091/jvc-rs-45-sony-hw30-benq-w7000-epson-5010-mini-shootout/2820#post_22170151
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post #182 of 202 Old 07-17-2013, 11:49 PM
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Ok, this seems to be about 1:1 pixel mapping 'errors'.

You had asked if the "PRO9000 has 1:1 Pixel mapping?", which of course it does, though how accurately would be a different matter.

When a 1080p projector isn't 1:1pixel mapping a blu ray source, then the PJ would have to be scaling it in some way, which the pixel mapping 'error' thing seems to not be about.

The whole notion of 1:1 pixel mapping errors is a bit foreign to me. Either the nomenclature is not the best choice (meaning, it isn't actually a pixel mapping error?), or I just don't understand exactly what is going on in a 1:1 pixel mapping error situation.
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post #183 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 03:13 AM
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To me and to the people who talked about the problem earlier "1:1 Pixel mapping" means that a projector's output is exactly the same as input.

If the term means something different to you it's your problem, so please don't try to make it mine, OK?

That is, I'm not at all interested in determining which is the best term for this problem, I'm only interested in determining whether ViewSonic PRO9000 has it or not.
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post #184 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-2Admirer View Post

To me and to the people who talked about the problem earlier "1:1 Pixel mapping" means that a projector's output is exactly the same as input.

If the term means something different to you it's your problem, so please don't try to make it mine, OK?

That is, I'm not at all interested in determining which is the best term for this problem, I'm only interested in determining whether ViewSonic PRO9000 has it or not.

Dude, what's with the aggressiveness?

What part of my post rubbed you wrong?

I was sincerely interested in what you were talking about, and even mentioned I didn't know exactly what this was>
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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

The whole notion of 1:1 pixel mapping errors is a bit foreign to me. Either the nomenclature is not the best choice (meaning, it isn't actually a pixel mapping error?), or I just don't understand exactly what is going on in a 1:1 pixel mapping error situation.

I know what "1:1 Pixel mapping" is, that is not the issue. The PRO9000 does it, like every other 1080P projector does.

The issue (to me) is what exactly a pixel mapping 'error' is, what exactly is going on. If you don't know, can't explain it, or don't care, that's fine...don't make it a fight, ok?

I read not only the link of that that post, but many of the posts on that link talking about the 'error'....they all talked about how to look for and identify the 'error' (telling the difference between the 'error' and convergence and Chromatic Aberration, on the 'screen', etc), but not exactly the mechanics of it. It appears to be some distortion in the processor.

Anyway, again you weren't clear in your first question>
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Originally Posted by B-2Admirer View Post

Does ViewSonic PRO9000 have 1:1 pixel mapping?

My answer initially was still correct. There is no scaling going on from a 1080p input to output. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1:1_pixel_mapping
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post #185 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-2Admirer View Post

To me and to the people who talked about the problem earlier "1:1 Pixel mapping" means that a projector's output is exactly the same as input.

Then NO projector has perfect 1:1 pixel mapping by that definition.

No projector has perfect focus uniformity.

Every PJ has some level of Chromatic Aberration.

etc.

And if you have a 1080p PJ, walk up to your screen and look at the pixels with a 1:1 pixel map test screen--none will pass a 1:1 pixel mapping test (by your definition), ON the screen.
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post #186 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 09:12 AM
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The Pro8200 (no idea about the Pro9000) did not do correct 1:1 pixel mapping, that long definition I posted was how the pixel mapping translates on the Pro8200 specific to that projector, but it could also confuse people because it showed a dimmer outline then the middle line (and many projectors would just double up the pixels). The Pro8200's error had nothing to do with Chromatic Aberration, in that post I was simply showing that a pixel mapping error can in some cases look similar to CA error at first glance when you don't fully investigate the problem very closely, but technically the problems are two completely different issues.

A pixel mapping issue simply means the digital DISPLAY of the X,Y pixels do not exactly match where the digital addressing or image is telling the projector to project them.

For instance, if you have a Bitmap image, all that file is really is a bunch of X/Y coordinates with RGB data of each pixel attached to the coordinates. Say the file tells the projector to display a line that is 400 pixels high and 1 pixel wide, a projector with a pixel mapping issue will often display that line as 403 pixels high and 2 pixels wide, or maybe 400 pixels high with a lighter border around it for a total of 3 pixels wide. There are different variatioins of pixel mapping issues, but it all means the same thing, that it is essentially refusing to scale or draw the image like the digital data is telling it to.

The side effect to 1:1 pixel mapping is that some of the pixels may be doubled up (not necessarily all) and effectively reduce the resolution to either halfway between 1080p and 720p or completely down to 720p.

So although EVERY 1080p projector should technically have 1:1 pixel mapping (because then it's not really 1080p anymore), they don't, some are reducing resolution. The pixel mapping issue is almost exactly the same as what happens when you use Keystone correction.

You cannot consider convergence or chromatic aberration to be a pixel mapping issue because the aberrations or convergence error is generally one defined color or a choice of a few colors you see across the BORDER areas or converged zones of different colors. A pixel mapping issue however is usually the same color as the pixel itself (or the same shade of the color) and is unusually well defined because the projector is actually drawing extra pixels rather than just smearing a pixel like with CA or convergence.

Hence one is scaling (1:1 mapping) and the other is blurring on borders of color changes (convergence or CA).

Convergence and CA is an error in the refraction of the light and colors, whereas pixel mapping is an error in the programming of the projector's scaler code in the firmware or the projector's VP code.

...Hope that helps...


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post #187 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 09:27 AM
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Also, this is the more relevant post I did when doing a pixel mapping test.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1382091/jvc-rs-45-sony-hw30-benq-w7000-epson-5010-mini-shootout/2820#post_22170462

It was unusually complex to determine the Pro8200's pixel mapping error, because what the Pro8200 was doing (unlike many projectors) is outlining a border of the image with a lower gain of the color itself (this is a bit confusing). So it was in fact drawing 1-2 extra pixels in places it should not, but it was doing so of the same color as a lower gain of the color of the REAL single pixel line it was supposed to be drawing. This is why all the reviewers thought they were seeing CA error on the Pro8200 when they were actually seeing a scaling error (because the scaling error was a border enhancement bug in the code even when the sharpness was turned to zero).

Most projectors with pixel mapping errors will often simply draw 2 pixels instead of one on the screen where certain pixels meet, but again there are multiple bugs and variations of how to cause a 1:1 pixel mapping error. Actually another way I confirmed it was because in certain video modes, the Pro8200 would not do the border error, but instead it would revert back to doing 2 solid black pixels when it was only supposed to be drawing a 1-pixel line. So depending on the signal you were passing to the Pro8200, it exhibited two different types of pixel mapping errors (border enhancement error where it drew 2 extra lighter colored pixels around a single line, or direct LINE error where it drew a line as 2 pixels wide instead of 1).

Hope that explains it...


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post #188 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Hence one is scaling (1:1 mapping) and the other is blurring on borders of color changes (convergence or CA). Convergence and CA is an error in the refraction of the light and colors, whereas pixel mapping is an error in the programming of the projector's scaler code in the firmware or the projector's VP code.

Hi coder,

Yes, read your posts on the matter.

Of course convergence and CA isn't technically a pixel mapping issue, but going by this definition it is>
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Originally Posted by B-2Admirer View Post

To me and to the people who talked about the problem earlier "1:1 Pixel mapping" means that a projector's output is exactly the same as input.

Of course there's no way to see a projectors 'output' other than to view pixels on a projection screen.
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post


So although EVERY 1080p projector should technically have 1:1 pixel mapping (because then it's not really 1080p anymore), they don't, some are reducing resolution.

Exactly my point.
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post #189 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Also, this is the more relevant post I did when doing a pixel mapping test.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1382091/jvc-rs-45-sony-hw30-benq-w7000-epson-5010-mini-shootout/2820#post_22170462

It was unusually complex to determine the Pro8200's pixel mapping error, because what the Pro8200 was doing (unlike many projectors) is outlining a border of the image with a lower gain of the color itself (this is a bit confusing). So it was in fact drawing 1-2 extra pixels in places it should not, but it was doing so of the same color as a lower gain of the color of the REAL single pixel line it was supposed to be drawing. This is why all the reviewers thought they were seeing CA error on the Pro8200 when they were actually seeing a scaling error (because the scaling error was a border enhancement bug in the code even when the sharpness was turned to zero).

Most projectors with pixel mapping errors will often simply draw 2 pixels instead of one on the screen where certain pixels meet, but again there are multiple bugs and variations of how to cause a 1:1 pixel mapping error. Actually another way I confirmed it was because in certain video modes, the Pro8200 would not do the border error, but instead it would revert back to doing 2 solid black pixels when it was only supposed to be drawing a 1-pixel line. So depending on the signal you were passing to the Pro8200, it exhibited two different types of pixel mapping errors (border enhancement error where it drew 2 extra lighter colored pixels around a single line, or direct LINE error where it drew a line as 2 pixels wide instead of 1).

Hope that explains it...

Yeah, I had read some of your posts on the matter.

Trying to identify it is complex on a projector.
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post #190 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 09:47 AM
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No problem, I just wasn't sure if my article was what led to the disagreement between you two due to how confusing that article can be, so I was clarifying.

BTW, everyone should just relax in this forum (I know easier said than done, I get too uptight too sometimes if I know someone is incorrect in an explanation). The problem is sometimes people are not actually wrong, they are just articulating in a way that does not sound quite right...


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post #191 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

No problem, I just wasn't sure if my article was what led to the disagreement between you two due to how confusing that article can be, so I was clarifying.
.

No disagreement on my end.

His initial question made no mention of pixel mapping 'error', only if it did 1:1 pixel mapping, which I answered it does (before the 'error' issue was mentioned in the links he provided).

I had not heard of 'pixel mapping errors' before so I sincerely mentioned I wasn't sure what it was....that's when the poster attacked me.

So I bit back.
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post #192 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

that's when the poster attacked me.

So I bit back.
Would you mind restraining your imagination? If you saw any attack in my statement about not being interested in definition, it can only mean that you're one of those people who see a black cat in every dark room.

And now that my question (thanks to you) is completely buried under the discussion about what "1:1 Pixel mapping" really is, I have no choice but to repeat it: Does ViewSonic PRO9000 have 1:1 pixel mapping*?

*By "1:1 Pixel mapping" I mean that a projector will attempt to display an image exactly as supplied from its input without any digital alteration done prior.


I sincerely hope that now the definition is clear enough not to warrant any further discussion.
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post #193 of 202 Old 07-18-2013, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-2Admirer View Post

Would you mind restraining your imagination? If you saw any attack in my statement about not being interested in definition, it can only mean that you're one of those people who see a black cat in every dark room.

No imagination. My diplomacy left the stage after you said this>
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Originally Posted by B-2Admirer View Post

If the term means something different to you it's your problem, so please don't try to make it mine, OK?
.

You started the rudeness.
I was sincere before that statement.
You must be one of those people who sees an argument in every post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-2Admirer View Post

And now that my question (thanks to you) is completely buried under the discussion about what "1:1 Pixel mapping" really is, I have no choice but to repeat it: Does ViewSonic PRO9000 have 1:1 pixel mapping*?

*By "1:1 Pixel mapping" I mean that a projector will attempt to display an image exactly as supplied from its input without any digital alteration done prior.


I sincerely hope that now the definition is clear enough not to warrant any further discussion.

Whatever.

And the answer to '*' is yes, then it does. Same as my original answer.

Have a nice day.
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post #194 of 202 Old 07-19-2013, 02:20 AM
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If you found my quoted statement offensive then you shouldn't be so easily offended and that's last thing I'm going to say about that. While I appreciate your efforts to drag me into a meaningless discussion, I regret to say that it's not my intention to engage in it.
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And the answer to '*' is yes, then it does. Same as my original answer.
What do you mean "answer to '*' "? I assume you have never tested the projector, so if you insist on replying to the question that was clearly directed to those who have tested it, at least try to be clear enough. Thanks in advance for cooperation.
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post #195 of 202 Old 07-19-2013, 04:07 AM
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Come to thinks of it, 1:1 pixel mapping may be better defined as having each input pixel mapped to a single output pixel, so that any changes in it shall only be reflected in the output pixel it's mapped to, without influencing any neighboring output pixels. This points at why the term is (sort of) self-explanatory.

I never saw any point in pondering over the definition since an example would give a better understanding, but now that fleaman forced me to give one, I hope it does someone any good.
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post #196 of 202 Old 07-19-2013, 08:27 AM
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I'd normally answer and explain, obviously it won't be appreciated, so not gonna bother.

I'll leave it to someone else if they so wish. Hopefully it won't be appreciated as 'meaningless'.
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post #197 of 202 Old 02-15-2014, 01:33 PM
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Does the ViewSonic PRO9000 has lens shift?

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post #198 of 202 Old 02-15-2014, 01:46 PM
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No. It does not "has" it. But it does have electronic keystone correction which will tremendously down grade the image quality. But it has a built in speaker. You need to mount the projector at the correct offset distance and if you need to tilt theprojector up because you can't mount it high enough above the screen, you simply have to tilt the screen slightly forward from the top to match the upward tilt (its not the same exact tilt but close).

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post #199 of 202 Old 02-15-2014, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

No. It does not "has" it. But it does have electronic keystone correction which will tremendously down grade the image quality. But it has a built in speaker. You need to mount the projector at the correct offset distance and if you need to tilt theprojector up because you can't mount it high enough above the screen, you simply have to tilt the screen slightly forward from the top to match the upward tilt (its not the same exact tilt but close).

Thank you that won't work them oh well!
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post #200 of 202 Old 02-19-2014, 09:38 AM
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i recently bought a used viewsonic pro9000 and i have a major configuration issue:

I can't seem to fully disable the overscan which is present  when I use either HDMI slots. I tested it with both NVIDIA and ATI graphicscard and each time, I have to define a 1% overscan in the drivers to fully display everything, without anything being cut off. However, that causes a drop in resolution and quality (-> resampling)

 

Also, the picture gets very grainy in darker scenes, somewhat like random dithering a 24bit source down to 16bit or less. Okay, i havent really touch and optimized those settings yet, as im getting really annoyed at that 1% overscan issue

EDIT: set to user color mode. dithering issue fixed, but not the overscan one...

 

can some owner please help me fixing this?

 

My projector has the firmware version A12. Can you check yours as well, please?

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post #201 of 202 Old 03-05-2014, 08:34 AM
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Have you contacted ViewSonic tech support? Sometimes they can be helpful.

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post #202 of 202 Old 03-05-2014, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
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Have you contacted ViewSonic tech support? Sometimes they can be helpful.


yeah. did take them a week to respond: I was told to send it in for repairs.

 

However after some help and Q&A from B-2Admirer and esjuhn, i decided to return it instead.

Some more info about this is in here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1501319/viewsonic-pro9000/30

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