4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 754 Old 02-04-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

you should be not use this lens with your screen size!

you simply not need it as you will have enough light and as i say there are
disadvantages as well to use such a lens in front.

btw i made a mistake and just found it out some min. ago.
the sony vw 1000 have a adjustment for what factor the anamorphic lens have.
for sample i use a isco 1.33 factor that most have.
but i use the full 4096 panel.
in this case you need a 1.25 factor and as most not have it the sony
have a adjustment that you can select 1,25 or 1,33 factor at the pr.itself.
at 1.25 than it scale the picture up to 4096 but then you need a 1.25 factor
anamorphic lens!
i make it wrong as i use a 1.33 factor isco 3 and adjust 1.25 at the sony.
i have to put 1.33 inside and then the sony scalle only to 3840 up.

so light increase will be not this high with the lens as i post in my last post.

so if you like to use the full 4096 chip and full light out the unit can do together with a anamorphic lens you need the very very expensive
1.25 cinema anamorphic lens that cost new around half a vw 1000 or
you use the 1.33 factor anamorphic lens but then you can use the standard
1.33 anamorphic lens.

lucky if your screen is not to big

Wolfgang, thankyou for the above information.
My throw distance is 5.2m with the 16:9 screen 3m wide. One of the figures quoted for the internal anamorphic mode to work is having a throw ratio of 1.68 for the scope image, is this correct? My scope image being 3.6 m wide, if the 1.68 throw ratio is correct, then i will not have sufficent throw distance to make this work

21inch hitachi
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post #302 of 754 Old 02-04-2012, 02:19 PM
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Hi all,

Great info for the new guys like myself coming into the projector world for the first time. My question for those out there with experience; in a light controlled room that is NOT a bat cave (no outside light but only moderately dark furnishings and paint)....will this thing perform well on a 10.5 ft wide screen 16:9 screen? I am sports fanatic (go PATRIOTS) so I will be using a hd feed from directv as well as watch bluray movies. I need to decide which way to go soon and my budget is a big factor going forward. I know there is limited data but I'd love to hear your educated guesses. Thanks in advance. Have a great day everyone.
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post #303 of 754 Old 02-04-2012, 02:37 PM
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My VW1000 just arrived. Will setup tonight!

Thanks for measurements, feedback and the motivation Wolfgang.

McIntosh MX151 Owner's Thread

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Authorized Dealer for Kef, Triad, Bryston, Auralic, Audeze, Grado, Audioquest, Marantz

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post #304 of 754 Old 02-04-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

Hi all,

Great info for the new guys like myself coming into the projector world for the first time. My question for those out there with experience; in a light controlled room that is NOT a bat cave (no outside light but only moderately dark furnishings and paint)....will this thing perform well on a 10.5 ft wide screen 16:9 screen? I am sports fanatic (go PATRIOTS) so I will be using a hd feed from directv as well as watch bluray movies. I need to decide which way to go soon and my budget is a big factor going forward. I know there is limited data but I'd love to hear your educated guesses. Thanks in advance. Have a great day everyone.

I have no real world experience, I have a 1000ES on order but I probably won't have it setup for weeks. I do know I've run the numbers on a AT 160" screen that is only 1.0 gain if I'm lucky and I am good from a short throw distance. I see no reason why you would have issues at the lumens this PJ is supposed to have, although you really haven't listed all the possible variables of your screen and environment.

Matt
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post #305 of 754 Old 02-04-2012, 08:37 PM
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Thanks Matt.

Here is some more info: the screen has not been purchased yet but I'm leaning towards a Stewart firehawk or the sudiotek 130. The room with have the windows blacked out totally. My main concern will be the output of the projector itself on a 10.5 ft wide 16:9 screen with the walls and ceiling painted in a medium dark paint (the wife will veto a black wall and ceiling room). The room itself will be 25.5x17x9 and will be a dedicated space for HT. Even with the 2000 lumens, will it have some punch to it on this rather large screen or will it simply have "just enough" light for an ok image?

Another member here was kind enough to demo his amazing projector but it might be just slightly out of reach financially. The picture quality was stunning. With the sony, if I can get even close to that picture quality I'd be a happy man. A plus is that it also has the new 4K. The reduced cost of the Sony also keeps the overall budget in order for other parts of the project. I'm going back and forth in my mind largely based on what I'm reading here and hearing from other well informed members. Any advice will be helpful.

On a side note, has anyone blown up a DirecTV hd sports event on something like a 10.5 ft wide 16:9 screen? Does it look any good? I have my concerns.

Thanks to anyone who might have some well informed opinions.
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post #306 of 754 Old 02-04-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

Thanks Matt.

Here is some more info: the screen has not been purchased yet but I'm leaning towards a Stewart firehawk or the sudiotek 130. The room with have the windows blacked out totally. My main concern will be the output of the projector itself on a 10.5 ft wide 16:9 screen with the walls and ceiling painted in a medium dark paint (the wife will veto a black wall and ceiling room). The room itself will be 25.5x17x9 and will be a dedicated space for HT. Even with the 2000 lumens, will it have some punch to it on this rather large screen or will it simply have "just enough" light for an ok image?

Another member here was kind enough to demo his amazing projector but it might be just slightly out of reach financially. The picture quality was stunning. With the sony, if I can get even close to that picture quality I'd be a happy man. A plus is that it also has the new 4K. The reduced cost of the Sony also keeps the overall budget in order for other parts of the project. I'm going back and forth in my mind largely based on what I'm reading here and hearing from other well informed members. Any advice will be helpful.

On a side note, has anyone blown up a DirecTV hd sports event on something like a 10.5 ft wide 16:9 screen? Does it look any good? I have my concerns.

Thanks to anyone who might have some well informed opinions.

What projector did you demo? Obviosly there are more expensive projectors than this vw1000, but I dont think "reduced cost" has come up in its description many times :-).
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post #307 of 754 Old 02-04-2012, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

Thanks Matt.

Here is some more info: the screen has not been purchased yet but I'm leaning towards a Stewart firehawk or the sudiotek 130. The room with have the windows blacked out totally. My main concern will be the output of the projector itself on a 10.5 ft wide 16:9 screen with the walls and ceiling painted in a medium dark paint (the wife will veto a black wall and ceiling room). The room itself will be 25.5x17x9 and will be a dedicated space for HT. Even with the 2000 lumens, will it have some punch to it on this rather large screen or will it simply have "just enough" light for an ok image?

Another member here was kind enough to demo his amazing projector but it might be just slightly out of reach financially. The picture quality was stunning. With the sony, if I can get even close to that picture quality I'd be a happy man. A plus is that it also has the new 4K. The reduced cost of the Sony also keeps the overall budget in order for other parts of the project. I'm going back and forth in my mind largely based on what I'm reading here and hearing from other well informed members. Any advice will be helpful.

On a side note, has anyone blown up a DirecTV hd sports event on something like a 10.5 ft wide 16:9 screen? Does it look any good? I have my concerns.

Thanks to anyone who might have some well informed opinions.

My 16x9 pic is 128x72 (just slightly larger than yours) and I can attest that sports looks great on my RS20, viewing from ~ 1 SW. I'm looking forward to it looking even better with a VW1000.
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post #308 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybobjimbob View Post

Wolfgang, thankyou for the above information.
My throw distance is 5.2m with the 16:9 screen 3m wide. One of the figures quoted for the internal anamorphic mode to work is having a throw ratio of 1.68 for the scope image, is this correct? My scope image being 3.6 m wide, if the 1.68 throw ratio is correct, then i will not have sufficent throw distance to make this work

sorry i am not understand you question 100%.
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post #309 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 02:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

Hi all,

Great info for the new guys like myself coming into the projector world for the first time. My question for those out there with experience; in a light controlled room that is NOT a bat cave (no outside light but only moderately dark furnishings and paint)....will this thing perform well on a 10.5 ft wide screen 16:9 screen? I am sports fanatic (go PATRIOTS) so I will be using a hd feed from directv as well as watch bluray movies. I need to decide which way to go soon and my budget is a big factor going forward. I know there is limited data but I'd love to hear your educated guesses. Thanks in advance. Have a great day everyone.

the vw 1000 is for its price on of the brightes pr. on the market.
other 3 chip dlp pr. are in the min. double price range and it offeres less lumens not more.
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post #310 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 02:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

My VW1000 just arrived. Will setup tonight!

Thanks for measurements, feedback and the motivation Wolfgang.

i hope you have fun with it

make sure you adjust everything right.
there are so many adjustments and some of the can ruin the pricture qualtiy a lot.
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post #311 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

sorry i am not understand you question 100%.

Hi wolfgang what i am asking is my scope screen is 3.6m wide, and the projector will be 5.2m from the screen. Will the projectors internal anamorphic mode work from this distance?

I do not wish to use an anamorphic lens-just the projectors internal anamorphic mode.

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post #312 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 07:27 AM
 
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If I can relieve the burdon from Wolfgang, the answer is yes. You are going to zoom between low aspect ratios and higher ones. According to the Sony throw chart for the projector which of course is not needed if one has the minimum and maximum throw multipliers throw to start with, you are beyond the minimum throw required for that screen size (a good thing because that means you will be able to fill your screen for aspect ratios 2.35 and higher) and within the longest zoom that will enable you to shrink the image down enough when its aspect ratio is less than 2.35 (also a good thing). You are golden here. If I can help you in any other way do not hesitate to call me.
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post #313 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybobjimbob View Post

Hi wolfgang what i am asking is my scope screen is 3.6m wide, and the projector will be 5.2m from the screen. Will the projectors internal anamorphic mode work from this distance?

I do not wish to use an anamorphic lens-just the projectors internal anamorphic mode.

avs sales answer you already and he is right.

the internal anamorphic mode just works if you really put a anamorphic lens in the front of the vw 1000 lens.

the optic the vw 1000 has have a huge range from 1.27 to almost 2.9
zoom and yes the lens cover your request and even much more you need.
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post #314 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 08:14 AM
 
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To translate. Wolfgang is saying that the internal vertical stretch capabilty of the Sony (which he calls the internal anamorphic mode) requires the use of an external anamorphic lens to do the horizontal stretching. You are not going to be doing that, you are going to use the zoom method for filling your screen for higher aspect ratios.
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post #315 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

To translate. Wolfgang is saying that the internal vertical stretch capabilty of the Sony (which he calls the internal anamorphic mode) requires the use of an external anamorphic lens to do the horizontal stretching. You are not going to be doing that, you are going to use the zoom method for filling your screen for higher aspect ratios.

Thankyou Wolfgang and Mark. I was under the impression there was an alternate anamorphic mode-other than the vertical stretch. I owned upto earlier this week a schneider m anamorphic lens and a jvc rs20. I would like to go for the sony as an upgrade but really want to make sure its the right choice as opposed to say a 3 chip sim2.

Mark, id love to call you, but i live in England! so i could still call you if you like regardless, i appreciate the help you guys are giving so thankyou again

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post #316 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 10:13 AM
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Just to follow up on what Billybobjimbob was asking - as I'm also interested in the answer to this ;

The throw ratio of 1.68 is mentioned several times online - but not 100% sure what that is actually referring to, as Sony's explanation is a bit garbled.

From what you're saying if I understand correctly, the 1.68 throw is only relevant if you have an external anamorphic lens - and Sony's term of 'lensless anamorphic mode' actually refers to that?

In other words, the correct method of showing 2.35 material on a 2.35 screen is simply to zoom up by using the picture memories as per normal?
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post #317 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

My VW1000 just arrived. Will setup tonight!

Thanks for measurements, feedback and the motivation Wolfgang.

Could you measure how close it is to rec 709? No one has provided that yet.
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The 1.68 number is indeed confusing. If one is zooming the projector must be set up at a throw that will fill the screen and then will enable a zoom out to bring the image size down for loweer aspect ratios. For example the machine could be set up at its closest throw to fill the 2.35 screen size. That would be 1.25 times the 2.35 screen width. You would then have more than enough zoom left to zoom the size down for your smallest aspect ratio. Once we start moving away from closest throw to fill the 2.35 screen we start using up zoom range for zooming from there to smaller. But there is really no problem in moving away from closest zoom as long as you don'y go so far as to not have enough zoom range left. Ta da. That magic point is a throw multiplier of 2.2. Set up closer if you want but don't go farther away than 2.2. At that pouint you will enough left over to zoom the picture smaller. Go farther and you won't have enough left. Hope this helps.

Now what with the 1.68 number? The longest throw is about 2.74 and the smallest is about 1.25. Dividing the larger by the smaller one gets a throw ratio of 2.192. But you lose part of this range because of the limit of the close throw that will fill the screen. Instead of a 2.192 you only have a 1.68. That number bu itself doesn't tell you much. Just us the published interactiver zoom chart we have linked from Sony in various 1000ES threads. Set the 2.35 width to 100 and all the throw numbers are there just move the decimaklpoint two places to the left. Once you understand, then just plug in your actuasl screen width and the mins amnd maxs for you for zooming come up.
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post #319 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 10:51 AM
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What is the physical size/weight of this projector and how noisy is it?

My cinema: The Cave!

My kit: 15' 2.35:1 Screen Research CP2 4-way mask, Sony vw1000es, Lumagen 2144, Meridian 861/621/7x5500/2xSW5500

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post #320 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_H View Post

What is the physical size/weight of this projector and how noisy is it?

It's about 20x25 inches. Haven't fired up yet though. Still putting the mount together in the equipment room.

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AVS4,
thanks for that explanation about the throw ; I think it all starts to make more sense now. My zoom at 2.35 will be fairly near to closest throw (1.44) - so seems that should all work well when zooming downward.

I'll have a look for the interactive chart on the threads as well - I seem to have missed that somehow.

Thanks!
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post #322 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

What projector did you demo? Obviosly there are more expensive projectors than this vw1000, but I dont think "reduced cost" has come up in its description many times :-).


He looked at my Sim2 HT5000E, on an 11.5' Stewart 2.37 FH w/Isco III-L lens. I've still not brought anything into my place that has bested that PJ, but I'm always looking. (I'm getting about 2500 calibrated lumens on a 550 hour lamp, with CR slightly above 8K, and looks great to my eyes). I've had just about all the JVC's in here, including two of the latest, a couple of earlier Sony's, including the 95, a PD Titan, and most of the Sim2 models above $15K. While measurements showed some with better numbers in a couple of areas (never lumens), none actually bested the 5K in overall visual impact, IMO, and in the opinion of most others viewing units in a side-by-side setting. There were, as expected, some units that very close and one in particular we thought was it's equal, but overall that 5K was exceptional.

Like most everyone here, I like measurements, and they are certainly relevant and tell us a lot about a unit, but at the end of the day what matters to me is the image I'm actually seeing in front of me. That overall sense of satisfaction from a great image is all I care about (and perfect convergence).

(Next up, the Sony 1000, due in here Tuesday/Wednesday.)


Jim
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post #323 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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i play today i bit more in 3d and i did a strange compare!

i take my panasonic 65" 3D plasma the vt 20 version that is btw NOT better in 3d picture quality than the new vt30 and put them
side by side as you can see with the sony 4k at a screen that have about the same size the plasma have.

left one is the plasma right one the sony vw 1000 at full light out.

you can see that the sony have the far brighter picture.
visual rating is about double.



as 3d with plasmas have some problems about noise compare to other displays and pr.especially in dark parts i check how much better the sony is in this way.


here the sony vw 1000.





here the plasma.
please note that this picture was made with "normal"settings!
"dynamic" that increase the light out a bit had much worse noise visible!


from the black hairs to the right you can see some noise inside the hairs and the boarder.
the sony is almost noise free without any decrease of
details or other visible things in the picture.

here the same picture but a even more close up first the sony.






here the plasma





if you know what the price the big 85" and 103" 3d plasmas costs the
sony 4k is a very good deal!

also i think that bigger plasmas like a 80" plasma or a 103" with only 2k resolution is not anymore a good idea.

from 80" on a display need 4k not 2k!

2k is dead even if we not have beside some digital still pictures material
to watch but the above pictures show that you even with 2k upscale to 4k you can see "some" differences at least when you sit close to the picture.
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post #324 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 01:13 PM
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Nice! Thanks WG.

BTW, if there is anyone in Honolulu that would like to see the Sony 1K this week, PM me. The only request I have is that if you decide to buy one, please contact Mark Haflich here at AVS.


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post #325 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

Nice! Thanks WG.

BTW, if there is anyone in Honolulu that would like to see the Sony 1K this week, PM me. The only request I have is that if you decide to buy one, please contact Mark Haflich here at AVS.


Jim

As much as I would like to see this PJ in action, I think that if I were to make it to Honolulu, I would not be coming to watch video .
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post #326 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

Hi all,

Great info for the new guys like myself coming into the projector world for the first time. My question for those out there with experience; in a light controlled room that is NOT a bat cave (no outside light but only moderately dark furnishings and paint)....will this thing perform well on a 10.5 ft wide screen 16:9 screen? I am sports fanatic (go PATRIOTS) so I will be using a hd feed from directv as well as watch bluray movies. I need to decide which way to go soon and my budget is a big factor going forward. I know there is limited data but I'd love to hear your educated guesses. Thanks in advance. Have a great day everyone.

The VW1000 will easily light up a 10.5' wide StudiTek 130 screen. Most likely you will be in low lamp mode. Sports viewing will have plenty of brightness.

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post #327 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

As much as I would like to see this PJ in action, I think that if I were to make it to Honolulu, I would not be coming to watch video .


Ha!

(It is a beautiful place, but there's always time for HT!!)


Jim
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post #328 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

Ha!

(It is a beautiful place, but there's always time for HT!!)


Jim

Or college football!

From my experience............"Domers" have been great "rivalry" fans!
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post #329 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 03:54 PM
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He looked at my Sim2 HT5000E, on an 11.5' Stewart 2.37 FH w/Isco III-L lens. I've still not brought anything into my place that has bested that PJ, but I'm always looking. (I'm getting about 2500 calibrated lumens on a 550 hour lamp, with CR slightly above 8K, and looks great to my eyes).

That sound like it should work out to ~50ftL?

Mike Kobb
(Formerly "ReplayMike". These opinions are mine alone, and in no way reflect the opinions of employers past or present!)
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post #330 of 754 Old 02-05-2012, 05:35 PM
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That sound like it should work out to ~50ftL?


A little less in actuality, but I learned awhile ago that I preferred a lot of light. For years I went with 12 to 18ftl numbers in several rooms, and believed the conventional wisdom that too much light was a bad thing (eye strain, CR issues in a poor room, etc.), until I opted to bring in a brighter unit (2000+) and found I preferred that look. I waited, but the eye strain never came, not for me, or anyone else that's sat through a number of movies back-to-back. I always heard the same comments "Wow."

I no longer believe I'd be happy at less than 25ftl, but hey, that's just me (although I think a bunch of new Sony owner's will soon get to experience this for themselves).



Jim
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