4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 View Post

4k_QHD_RoastDuck_30p.mp4

Which camera is used for this clip?
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post #542 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 06:30 AM
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I would be interested in hearing how various ones of you are choosing for the iris (DI high or low) or Manual, and also Motion Flow (high, low, or off).

I use 'low' for Motion Flow but haven't really done a thorough study to decide if that's best for me.

For the iris, I find that the DI on 'high' is the brightest (same as having it fully open on Manual) for scenes with any significant light in them; and then when all the light disappears it shuts down very quickly. I don't think I care much for this. So I have been using the 'low' setting of the DI. And more recently I've been comparing this to Manual, set at ~ 20 to 30 (I have PLENTY of brightness to spare!); this gives very good black level and and avoids any DI effects.

And another combo I'm going to try is to move Contrast all the way up to 100 (now use 90 to 95), and close the Manual iris down even further. The idea would be to get even better CR and black level, but to keep the brightness and dynamism of the whites, i.e., to maximize the dynamic range.

Any thoughts from those of you that are more experienced would be interesting to hear!
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post #543 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post

Nothing like the good old CRT days when I had to rent a drywall lift to mount the projector.


Here we just was 3 people -but our arms was week 5 hours after ( and that was "only" a 8" CRT )


dj
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post #544 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

Which camera is used for this clip?

Red.
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post #545 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Yes exactly - colors were almost spot on, too and better than with the previous unit in cinema 1 mode where I needed to dial down green.


Oliver and others

I dont get this it shouldnt matter what preset you start with - if you calibrate it for max light output at D65 ( where the red probely will be the limiting factor for how high you can adjust it, before clipping ) all the presets should end up outputing the same amount off light !? ( or there must be something other, in the different presets, who restricts the bulbs RGB light output !? - can that be the case ?)

BTW. this is offcause with all other settings at the same - ( color gamut, gamma, iris etc. ) and no extra filters inserted ( like the DCI green filter )


dj
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post #546 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I would be interested in hearing how various ones of you are choosing for the iris (DI high or low) or Manual, and also Motion Flow (high, low, or off).

I use 'low' for Motion Flow but haven't really done a thorough study to decide if that's best for me.

For the iris, I find that the DI on 'high' is the brightest (same as having it fully open on Manual) for scenes with any significant light in them; and then when all the light disappears it shuts down very quickly. I don't think I care much for this. So I have been using the 'low' setting of the DI. And more recently I've been comparing this to Manual, set at ~ 20 to 30 (I have PLENTY of brightness to spare!); this gives very good black level and and avoids any DI effects.

And another combo I'm going to try is to move Contrast all the way up to 100 (now use 90 to 95), and close the Manual iris down even further. The idea would be to get even better CR and black level, but to keep the brightness and dynamism of the whites, i.e., to maximize the dynamic range.

Any thoughts from those of you that are more experienced would be interesting to hear!

A few thoughts:

1) Regarding MotionFlow - assuming its like the VW95 - for sports, I use it all the time on Low (I haven't noticed much benefit to using it on High under any type of viewing, except for 3D in which case I always use it on High regardless of the content). For TV shows I usually use it on Low too.

For movies I usually will start off in Low but if I find it distracting because of the SOE or artifacts (it causes flickering in certain fine materials/patterns) then I switch it off. A good example of this was the movie Blackthorn. Normally the SOE is very slight and doesn't bother me, but with this movie it just made it feel fake - like I was sitting by the stage watching them film it rather than watching the movie.

2) Regarding boosting contrast - I would not recommend this unless you know for certain that a) you will not crush 235, and b) you will not create a noticeably color shift at the top end. Some folks have reported here that with the 1000 they could push contrast so something may be different compared to the 95 here. In my case I cannot go over 89 without crushing 235.

I can't remember if you have a meter and software. If you do it'll be easy to figure out what increasing contrast does to D65 at 100%. If you don't then I suggest this:

- put up a gray bars pattern that has 5% steps and check out what the bars at 90, 95 and 100 look like with your normal contrast setting. Then start increasing it and observe these bars. If at any point the 95% bar starts to disappear, or any of these bars starts to shift in color (such as pinkish) then reduce contrast back to the point just before where that starts to happen. This then is the maximum contrast setting to even consider, but still may be too high. So then you need to do part 2 of the test, which is to put up the blinking bars contrast pattern on the AVS HD 709 pattern disc and make sure you can see bar 234 blinking. It you can, then you are at the maximum contrast. If you can't, back the contrast down until you can barely see 234 blinking. Then you have reached the maximum that you can push contrast without introducing issues.

3) Try running in High lamp mode with the manual iris fully closed. This most likely is best configuration for maximizing native CR. I would use this at times on my 95, but it results in half the brightness compared to using the auto iris so its a no-go for me. But if you have plenty of brightness to spare it could work out. Give it a try and see what you think - I'm curious to know how you like it.
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post #547 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I would use this at times on my 1000...

Ric, you got a 1000 or you meant to say 95...?
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post #548 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

A few thoughts:

1) Regarding MotionFlow - assuming its like the VW95 - for sports, I use it all the time on Low (I haven't noticed much benefit to using it on High under any type of viewing, except for 3D in which case I always use it on High regardless of the content). For TV shows I usually use it on Low too.

For movies I usually will start off in Low but if I find it distracting because of the SOE or artifacts (it causes flickering in certain fine materials/patterns) then I switch it off. A good example of this was the movie Blackthorn. Normally the SOE is very slight and doesn't bother me, but with this movie it just made it feel fake - like I was sitting by the stage watching them film it rather than watching the movie.

2) Regarding boosting contrast - I would not recommend this unless you know for certain that a) you will not crush 235, and b) you will not create a noticeably color shift at the top end. Some folks have reported here that with the 1000 they could push contrast so something may be different compared to the 95 here. In my case I cannot go over 89 without crushing 235.

I can't remember if you have a meter and software. If you do it'll be easy to figure out what increasing contrast does to D65 at 100%. If you don't then I suggest this:

- put up a gray bars pattern that has 5% steps and check out what the bars at 90, 95 and 100 look like with your normal contrast setting. Then start increasing it and observe these bars. If at any point the 95% bar starts to disappear, or any of these bars starts to shift in color (such as pinkish) then reduce contrast back to the point just before where that starts to happen. This then is the maximum contrast setting to even consider, but still may be too high. So then you need to do part 2 of the test, which is to put up the blinking bars contrast pattern on the AVS HD 709 pattern disc and make sure you can see bar 234 blinking. It you can, then you are at the maximum contrast. If you can't, back the contrast down until you can barely see 234 blinking. Then you have reached the maximum that you can push contrast without introducing issues.

3) Try running in High lamp mode with the manual iris fully closed. This most likely is best configuration for maximizing native CR. I would use this at times on my 1000, but it results in half the brightness compared to using the auto iris so its a no-go for me. But if you have plenty of brightness to spare it could work out. Give it a try and see what you think - I'm curious to know how you like it.

Thanks very much for these insights, Ric. I think the 1000 does behave in many ways as the 95, though of course not in all. Re Contrast, with the Spears&Munsil disk (my standard), all the white bars just up to and slightly past 235 are clearly visible even at Cst set at 100. [This is consistent with W. Mayer's report that the 1000 does not clip whites with Cst up to 100.] Tom Huffman, though, noted that he got better colors (more uniform?) with it at 90; with Cst at 90 I see the white bars on M&S up to 245 or more. Good idea to check out the grayscale pattern for any color changes wit Cst above 90.

Re brightness, I'll try high lamp with Manual iris fully closed to see how it looks. With my RS20 I most recently used high lamp and iris fully OPEN since the lamp (with many hrs on it) had gotten down to something like 300-350 lumens.
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post #549 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 08:55 AM
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On my two units, with IRIS off, contrast starts to clip 253 at about 86. With IRIS on full auto, changing contrast does not affect clipping. No changing of contrast in any setting ever allows 254 or above to be visible.
(Reference mode, d65, rec 709, reality creation ON)
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post #550 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Ric, you got a 1000 or you meant to say 95...?

Edited. Would be nice, although likely overkill for my room with smallish (106") screen and 2x viewing distance.
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post #551 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 09:19 AM
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Hey guys, I checked the Mack Camera lamp replacement warranty, and they allow 2 lamp replacements over a 3-yr period for $125! I got such a warranty for my RS1 and my RS20(through Texas Tape Works) and did indeed get 2 lamps for each over the time I had them. Can they really offer this for the VW1000 lamp? Seems like a no-brainer.
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post #552 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 09:45 AM
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I emailed and asked the same a few weeks back. Tapeworks told me it is definitely valid for this projector. (Of course I kept the emails) . They said it doesnt matter the cost of the bulb.
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post #553 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Edited. Would be nice, although likely overkill for my room with smallish (106") screen and 2x viewing distance.

Freud might say that subliminally, you've already made the decision to upgrade...!
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post #554 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 10:02 AM
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beach camera has the mack for 75$!!
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post #555 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Oliver and others

I dont get this it shouldnt matter what preset you start with - if you calibrate it for max light output at D65 ( where the red probely will be the limiting factor for how high you can adjust it, before clipping ) all the presets should end up outputing the same amount off light !? ( or there must be something other, in the different presets, who restricts the bulbs RGB light output !? - can that be the case ?)

BTW. this is offcause with all other settings at the same - ( color gamut, gamma, iris etc. ) and no extra filters inserted ( like the DCI green filter )


dj

This is how it should be. Most projector manufacturers don't seem to work with their presets like that, certainly Sony and JVC don't..

I have my own opinions as to how I would go about a memory system for a projector like the Sony, but that does not change the fact that we have to work with how it is now.
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post #556 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 View Post

4k_QHD_RoastDuck_30p.mp4

Looks delicious

Are there any exterior shots where these came from?
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post #557 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samalmoe View Post

beach camera has the mack for 75$!!

Do you have a link? I cant find it on the beach site.
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post #558 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 12:00 PM
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post #559 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I emailed and asked the same a few weeks back. Tapeworks told me it is definitely valid for this projector. (Of course I kept the emails) . They said it doesnt matter the cost of the bulb.

I have had the Mack bulb warranty but it had to be purchased with a projector warranty also. The bulb warranty is cheap but I can't find a site that lists a PJ warranty from them for a projector costing above $10,000.

It appears now that you can get the bulb warranty alone. I used it once for my Ruby. It took a very long time to get the paperwork processed and get a check from Mack but they did come through in the end. It really is a great deal.
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post #560 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 12:33 PM
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I had it on my RS20. I filled out the paperwork and had a new bulb at my house from them in 4-5 days. They just sent it to me, I didnt get reimbursed.
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post #561 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 01:14 PM
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Is interesting to see they are still using HDMI (even if is 1.4a).

To me the real future will be HDBaseT (IMHO):
http://hdbaset.org

Is coming like fire in this year (I hope).

[]s,
Fernando
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post #562 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Looks delicious

Are there any exterior shots where these came from?

Is from Taiwan forum, is restrict to "VIP" users, this was the only 4K video available to the public there.

Here you go:
http://www.hd.club.tw/thread-112837-1-1.html

Oh yes, and chinese only.

[]s,
Fernando
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post #563 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 02:05 PM
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What does the high/middle/low black level adjustment do?
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post #564 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 02:18 PM
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And Mark you are saying that to use the full panel we select the 2:35 zoom setting and then just size it to whatever aspect we need?
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post #565 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

Next to a VW95 from Cine4Home.de

I'll trump that view with front and slightly above, plus a side one I took yest. They are iphone so not perfectly sharp:


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post #566 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius2 View Post

Is from Taiwan forum, is restrict to "VIP" users, this was the only 4K video available to the public there.

Here you go:
http://www.hd.club.tw/thread-112837-1-1.html

Oh yes, and chinese only.

Thanks, seems they are really enthusiastic about 4k!
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post #567 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 05:34 PM
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I just got my HIS Radeon 7950 today. So time to hit the 4k clips tonight I'd say and also have go at 4k HTPC general output with various formats. Be also kind of interesting to see how sharp a 4k windows desktop looks on the VW1000 out of curiosity vs the 'basic' 1080p upscaled one I was looking at last night.

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post #568 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 05:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

And Mark you are saying that to use the full panel we select the 2:35 zoom setting and then just size it to whatever aspect we need?

The native panel is 1.89. If ypu are watching a movie with an aspect ratio higher than 1.89, providing your screen is of an aspect ratio of higher than 1.89, you should set the aspect control on the Sony from Normal to 2.35 Zoom. You can then zoom your projector to get the black bars off screen and to fill the width of ypur scope screen. You can zoom or not zoom, it really makes no difference to what the panel is doing or to pixel use on the panels. If you keep the projector aspect at Normal. you will never be using full panel width. Your machine will act as it only has 1.78 panels with black side bars filling the width between 1.89 and 1.78. There is one exception. If you put up the zoom etc test pattern you will light the whole 1.89 chip. Alsao you have the choice of setting the aspect to 1.85 Zoom. The machine then will act like its panels are 1.85 aspect (useful for 1.85 aspect sources) and have onlky a few lines of black pixels on the sides.
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post #569 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post

It appears now that you can get the bulb warranty alone. I used it once for my Ruby. It took a very long time to get the paperwork processed and get a check from Mack but they did come through in the end. It really is a great deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I had it on my RS20. I filled out the paperwork and had a new bulb at my house from them in 4-5 days. They just sent it to me, I didnt get reimbursed.

Dave, where are you getting that it is now allowed to purchase the bulb warranty alone? Right there on Beach Camera's site is a review by somebody who got burnt. I have no need for the extended warranty that I know of with this PJ because I get 3 years from Sony and an additional year from AmEx.

And just because it might have worked for some of you in the past, what guarantee is there they will honor it in the future?

Not that $75 isn't worth it, but I hate ambiguity with warranties.

EDIT: The FAQ from Texas Tape Works indicates this is true. I bought from them before, but Beach Camera is a little too much cheaper this time around:
http://www.tapeworkstexas.com/extend...-3yr-bulb.html

Matt
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post #570 of 754 Old 02-16-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Looks delicious

Are there any exterior shots where these came from?

Filmed at the Taipei Silks Palace.
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