4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 754 Old 03-31-2012, 01:04 AM
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Hi everybody,

i have the Sony now for about 2 Months already and i am very very satisfied with it .
Wonderful colours, good Brightness and the 4k Up scaling is a great benefit for me.
Great projector and it is absolutely worth its price to my opinion.

Now I want to purchase a HTPC for my Sony.

Does anyone have experience with the ATI Radeon 7970 and the Sony 1000 and AV Receivers or Pres?
I have the Denon AVP A1 HD with the 3d upgrade and wonder if I can put the (4k 24p) Signal from the PC through the Denon to the Sony? Is that possible?

Otherwise, if I use the DVI Port to get the 4k signal directly to the Sony and the HDMI Signal (for Sound) to the Denon (is that possible?) does a “better” soundcard for the PC make any sense?
The Ati Radeon “Supports AC-3, AAC, Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio formatsHD Master Audio etc.”

Sorry for my bad school English.
I hope anyone can help me .

Greetz Hasenpfote
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post #722 of 754 Old 03-31-2012, 02:19 AM
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Don't try 4K pass through with the Integra 80.3. I just upgraded and found out the hard way. I'd been waiting to receive one to swap out with my 80.2. Anything existing that is 3D compatible like the Denon will Id say without hesitation be in the same boat as the 80.2 Integra. At this stage I don't know any pre/pros or receivers that will properly pass through 4K. I posted about my situ only just a few days ago in the other VW1000 thread and also the 80.3 owners thread. I went for a Radeon 7950 instead of all the way to 7970. The 4K desktop does look pretty direct into the VW1000 the few times I've the tried it. Your solution via DVI could work as long as I use an output adapter to hdmi direct to the proj. Then the sound via the cards HDMI should work. I can't say I've ever tried to output that way from a GFX card though to be certain both outputs paths would be always active to make it work. You'd also be stuck with needing to switch between both VW1000 HDMI inputs and have a sep run of cable. Something I would not be doing in my setup as its just to hard too run a another HDMI to the proj.

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post #723 of 754 Old 03-31-2012, 10:30 AM
 
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You would think there would be more choices for a SSP which would pass 3D and 4K. I think the ADA Mach 4 would work but with no on screen display and very expensive.

I'm just bypassing my D2 for video using a Pany 310. The picture is better not going through my D2 processor. I do miss my onscreen display from the D2.
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post #724 of 754 Old 03-31-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

I'm just bypassing my D2 for video using a Pany 310. The picture is better not going through my D2 processor. I do miss my onscreen display from the D2.

Same here - Missing my D2 OSD.
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post #725 of 754 Old 04-01-2012, 06:58 AM
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Hi to all,

@ OzHDHT,

thank you for your answer . I dont want to give my Denon away in this moment, so i think i have to use 2 HDMI connections for the sony and its HDMI inputs.

My Dealer has a PC with the Ati 7970. He will try next week, if both connections, the DVI - ATI directly to the Sony (4K Picture), and HDMI - ATI (for Sound) to a reciever (or Pre) work at the same time.
He wonders in this moment if the reciever limits the solution of the picture (DVI) to FULL HD .

Greetz
Hasenpfote
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post #726 of 754 Old 04-04-2012, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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yesterday i got a nice visit from 5 people from Sony.
2 of them are from Japan 3 of them from Sony Europa and Germany.

I am proud that the father of the VW 1000 the one that develops the
Sony Qualia (the first full hd home cinema pr.)and as well the
new Sony VW 1000 (the first 4k home cinema pr.)visit my cinema as well.
they told me that the mother of the VW 1000 was as well there

see here a picture from all.


they spent some good 4 hours to see the VW 1000 in action on my 7 meter screen with the isco 1.25 anamorphic lens in front of one VW1000
for 2d and we also saw a stack of two VW 1000 feed by my new 3d 4k computer that contains 2 native 4k graphic cards to display
real native 4k 3d still images with the new infitec E 3d system and glasses.

as it was not possible with existing display programs to run true 4k native 3d images with 1 or even two 4k graphic cards i ordered a new software that was written just for me to make this possible.
it's a very easy display program where you select a folder and just select how long every picture stays
and how long the fading between the pictures take.
if you have interest in this software send me a pm.

after we saw the same 4k 3d pictures with my big Barco 4k dlps.

then we had about 2 hours to discuss very open some issues about the pr.

i got the feeling that it was from both sides an interesting meeting and I am
proud that apart from other locations in Europe Sony chose to visit me as well.

i also found it very good from sony that the developer and the product planer
listen to the feedback from me and the dealers and other sources to get first hand informations.
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post #727 of 754 Old 04-05-2012, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

yesterday i got a nice visit from 5 people from Sony.
2 of them are from Japan 3 of them from Sony Europa and Germany.

I am proud that the father of the VW 1000 the one that develops the
Sony Qualia (the first full hd home cinema pr.)and as well the
new Sony VW 1000 (the first 4k home cinema pr.)visit my cinema as well.
they told me that the mother of the VW 1000 was as well there

see here a picture from all.


they spent some good 4 hours to see the VW 1000 in action on my 7 meter screen with the isco 1.25 anamorphic lens in front of one VW1000
for 2d and we also saw a stack of two VW 1000 feed by my new 3d 4k computer that contains 2 native 4k graphic cards to display
real native 4k 3d still images with the new infitec E 3d system and glasses.

as it was not possible with existing display programs to run true 4k native 3d images with 1 or even two 4k graphic cards i ordered a new software that was written just for me to make this possible.
it's a very easy display program where you select a folder and just select how long every picture stays
and how long the fading between the pictures take.
if you have interest in this software send me a pm.

after we saw the same 4k 3d pictures with my big Barco 4k dlps.

then we had about 2 hours to discuss very open some issues about the pr.

i got the feeling that it was from both sides an interesting meeting and I am
proud that apart from other locations in Europe Sony chose to visit me as well.

i also found it very good from sony that the developer and the product planer
listen to the feedback from me and the dealers and other sources to get first hand informations.


Could not agree more, its a god sign when a company get out to end user´s ( not that you are a complete "normal" user - meaning in a god way Wolfgang ) and listening to some constructive feedback and see a real home cinema.

Now that´s not, something we see everyday from a company ( not even Sony ) so Hr. Mayer, you must have impressed more people, than just us dedicated in here

dj
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post #728 of 754 Old 04-05-2012, 05:32 AM
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Dream team for a dream theatre.
Fantastic stuff and very inspiring....
Congratulation to Hr. Mayer.
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post #729 of 754 Old 04-05-2012, 05:47 AM
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I run drooling all over when I'm thinking at this projector VPL-VW1000ES,how cool will look in my home theatre,but is way over my budget.My current one is 95ES.
You, lucky owners....
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post #730 of 754 Old 04-05-2012, 02:18 PM
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Just calibrated a VW1000 and an RS55 last week.

Both were mounted in the rear of their throws. The RS55 was almost as far from the screen as it could be and still focus the image. The VW1000 was mounted 20-25 feet from a 110"D screen. I didn't measure the exact distance. Someone else did that install. Auto-Iris was off. Measurements were taken with both PJs in High Lamp and with Irises open fully. Both calibrated to D65 with White set at the brightest setting possible and yet still be at D65. Black set at extinguishment. (The blackest black each PJ can make and still have a 1 IRE step be visible.

RS55: 682 lumens; on/off CR - 31K:1; 3D measured thru the glasses was 1/6th as bright as 2D; 3D required a very different calibration compared to 2D. On the 105"D ST130 screen, 2D was 27.4 fL and 3D was 4.42fL

VW1000: 933.6 lumens; on/off CR - 9K:1; On the 110"D ST130 2d was 34fL; I didn't measure 3D thru the glasses, but it obviously caused a huge reduction in brightness; 3D required a significantly different calibration from 2D; I would estimate that 3D was somewhere between 1/4 and 1/6 as bright as 2D

Impressions:

Both PJs threw beautiful images; the vw1000 was visibly brighter, especially in 3D even though it was on the larger screen. They both looked very sharp and detailed, the VW1000 maybe just a bit more so.

Though I've seen a fair sampling of 3D displays, these were the first that I have actually measured in 3D. The hit in lumens output coincides with my subjective impression. It is huge. I have read repeatedly that 3D cuts the light output in half and I have repeated that common wisdom myself. However, the reality seems to be much worse. Keep in mind that both PJs were new and are as bright as they are ever going to be.

With the RS55, I had to use a gamma of 1.8. A gamma of 2.2 yielded low IRE scenes that were just too dim to make the shadow detail acceptably visible, even with a new lamp. 3D is not going to hold up well as the lamp ages and dims. 3D on the VW1000 seemed subjectively brighter than on the RS55 (I wish I had measured it, now.) I expect it to remain acceptably bright longer than the RS55, but I don't expect it to remain acceptably bright for anywhere near the life of the bulb. Time will tell.

I think that both of these PJs are in the same picture quality league. Personnaly, if both PJs were the same price, I would take the VW1000 over the RS55 without reservation. However, the RS55 lists for 1/3 the price and is clearly the much better value.
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post #731 of 754 Old 04-05-2012, 03:58 PM
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Using the Sony at long throw is a terrible "value". It loses almost half its brightness, which is a good part of the reason its more expensive...but it doesn't gain much native contrast dong that. So never worth it. Yes the pic is awesome anyway. But I would not buy it at 20k for 1000 lumens.
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post #732 of 754 Old 04-05-2012, 06:09 PM
 
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The brightness hit for 3D with any projector, assuming calibrated d65, is about 85%. Of course it doesn't look 85% dimmer to your eyes, it will look a little over half as bright because you have to decrease brightness by 75% to make it look half as bright. I have other comments but you need to call me for those.
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post #733 of 754 Old 04-06-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus74 View Post

I run drooling all over when I'm thinking at this projector VPL-VW1000ES,how cool will look in my home theatre,but is way over my budget.My current one is 95ES.
You, lucky owners....

Let me ask you this...do you really need a car? Sell it and get a projector...

Jason C. Turk
Technical Support, Customer Service, Sales and Installations
A/V Science, Inc.
Direct Line: 585-645-1004
Email: jason@avscience.com

Don't forget my nearly 13,000 posts under my old ID!

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post #734 of 754 Old 04-10-2012, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 3 View Post


Let me ask you this...do you really need a car? Sell it and get a projector...

That's what I did. I still have a car, but its about 32k cheaper!
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post #735 of 754 Old 04-10-2012, 07:09 PM
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Woftgang,

Great Job!, Did you tell them we need more lumen in the projector? Please tell them we want 3000-5000 lumen on the next generation. thanks

On a side note, does 3D works with external isco lens on? thanks

Sean
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post #736 of 754 Old 04-12-2012, 02:14 PM
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So I pulled the trigger on one of these units today... seemed like the right PJ for my set up to replace my aging 3 chip DLP. I'll be getting it in next week and hopfully have the unit mounted by next Friday.
However I still have one outstanding issue... I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction for a mount? There was mention earlier of using a chief mount with Sony plates but no one has mentioned the model numbers etc...? Any have that info please?

Thanks
Calvin
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post #737 of 754 Old 04-14-2012, 02:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adaseng View Post

Woftgang,

Great Job!, Did you tell them we need more lumen in the projector? Please tell them we want 3000-5000 lumen on the next generation. thanks

On a side note, does 3D works with external isco lens on? thanks

Sean

yes i did and i tell them the same lumen number.

i think with some other market for sample in the vr i guess 10% of the sales numbers the vw 1000 world wide have can be a high lumen version.

alone the more lumen for 3d bd would be a big advantage for many home cinema user.

yes 3d works with a external anamorphic lens and there the almost
25% more light in best case when you place the pr. right
is a very big advantage for scope movies.
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post #738 of 754 Old 04-14-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirodk View Post

A German magazine "Audiovision" has measured the following on these projectors in 3D:

Sony VW1000 120 lumens
Sony VW 90 60 lumens
Sony HW 30 80 lumens
Epson TW9000 200 lumens (3D Cinema) 283 lumens (Dynamic 3D)
JVC DLA-X70 90 lumens (70 lumens THX)
Panasonic PT-AT5000 100 lumens

All measurements were made behind the glasses.

Wolfgang - hi, have you published the lumen output in 3D mode or ft-L through the glasses? Home Theater Magazine here in the US recently stated that their production VW1000 was only putting out 2.1 ft-L in 3D mode (through the glasses), compared to the X70 @ ~2.0 ft-L and the VW95 at 2.4 ft-L. That seems odd given the difference in light output in 2D mode.

Thanks for any info on this topic.
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post #739 of 754 Old 04-15-2012, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Wolfgang - hi, have you published the lumen output in 3D mode or ft-L through the glasses? Home Theater Magazine here in the US recently stated that their production VW1000 was only putting out 2.1 ft-L in 3D mode (through the glasses), compared to the X70 @ ~2.0 ft-L and the VW95 at 2.4 ft-L. That seems odd given the difference in light output in 2D mode.

Thanks for any info on this topic.

i guess the above numbers are right.
at least right in the way that the magazines "publish this numbers".

i had in the past a jvc x3 and with this pr. i did a strange compare as i
put it side by side on a screen (gain 1.0) that is as big as a panasonic 65" plasma tv.
when you adjust the jvc x3 to the right colors the plasma offes the brighter
3d image.
now i did the same compare with the sony and the sony offers in 3d perfect color no ghosting at all and it was even at low lamp brighter than
the panasonic plasma.
so i think the vw 1000 is one of the brightes 3d pr. at the market.

i just read yesterday in a other germany home cinema magazin that test the vw 1000.
they found only 880 lumen in eco mode about 1200 lumen in full power lamp mode and 600:1 ansi cr.
i am sure lumen the measure are to low for sure and ansi cr. is to high for sure.

when the use reference mode for the measurments i am sure this can explan
why the found so much less lumens.
also the zoom position can make a huge difference as i post already.

thats why i always test units for a long time at home.
i often found lataly out that this or that can improve the quality after working days and some time weeks with a projector.
magazines can invest so much time into this.
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post #740 of 754 Old 04-15-2012, 09:30 AM
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wolfgang..maybe you can give us your settings for the brightest, accurate picture you have found for your situation.. thanks
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post #741 of 754 Old 04-16-2012, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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i had post this long time ago but for you here again with some updates.

-cinema 1 mode or game mode
(please note the game mode offers good colors as well)
this settings are good start to start for any further adjustments.

-lamp mode high
-filmprojection off
-contrast 100
-brightness 50
-colortemp d65
-colorspace bt 709
-gamma 2.2
-iris off (iris manual to max. open is about 1% less light)
-smooth gradation low

and last but not least use always the full panel so select aspect 2.35:1 zoom so that the sony use the full 4096 and not 3840 pixels horzontaly.
that will blank some lines above and down for 16:9 content but gain lumen for all content by 6.6%!

very importent as well try to use max. zoom as the pr. loose as other pr. lumen if you go more to tele settings from the lens.
the difference can be as high 40%!

try to use the pr. always in high lamp mode if you can as some lamps can have a problem with dimming.
it might be due to using low lamp mode but i am not sure.

that are the most importent points to get the max lumen out.
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post #742 of 754 Old 04-16-2012, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i had post this long time ago but for you here again with some updates.

-cinema 1 mode or game mode
(please note the game mode offers good colors as well)
this settings are good start to start for any further adjustments.

-lamp mode high
-filmprojection off
-contrast 100
-brightness 50
-colortemp d65
-colorspace bt 709
-gamma 2.2
-iris off (iris manual to max. open is about 1% less light)
-smooth gradation low

and last but not least use always the full panel so select aspect 2.35:1 zoom so that the sony use the full 4096 and not 3840 pixels horzontaly.
that will blank some lines above and down for 16:9 content but gain lumen for all content by 6.6%!

very importent as well try to use max. zoom as the pr. loose as other pr. lumen if you go more to tele settings from the lens.
the difference can be as high 40%!

try to use the pr. always in high lamp mode if you can as some lamps can have a problem with dimming.
it might be due to using low lamp mode but i am not sure.

that are the most importent points to get the max lumen out.

Thanks Wolfgang, this is very helpful, for a non-calibrated projector would you say that cinema 1 is producing the best results?

Quote:


and last but not least use always the full panel so select aspect 2.35:1 zoom so that the sony use the full 4096 and not 3840 pixels horzontaly.
that will blank some lines above and down for 16:9 content but gain lumen for all content by 6.6%!

Can you say a bit more about this? I don't have my VW-1000 yet so maybe it will be more clear when it's here, you mean that in 2.35 zoom the projector is cropping the black bars and using the full matrix for the cinemascope, much like what the v-stretch does and the horizontal stretch is done my the anamorphic lens, or I'm wrong?

Thanks
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post #743 of 754 Old 04-16-2012, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cR4p View Post

Can you say a bit more about this? I don't have my VW-1000 yet so maybe it will be more clear when it's here, you mean that in 2.35 zoom the projector is cropping the black bars and using the full matrix for the cinemascope, much like what the v-stretch does and the horizontal stretch is done my the anamorphic lens, or I'm wrong?
Thanks

When using the 2.35 zoom the projector uses the full panel for the 16:9 image and instead of the 1.78 ratio you get a 1.88 ratio picture. To fit the 1.88 picture to the screen the top and bottom of a 16:9 image has to be cropped.
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post #744 of 754 Old 04-16-2012, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the explanation.

i not feel bad with some lines top and down are cropped but i fight for every lumen may others not need to do this.
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post #745 of 754 Old 04-16-2012, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i had post this long time ago but for you here again with some updates.

-cinema 1 mode or game mode
(please note the game mode offers good colors as well)
this settings are good start to start for any further adjustments.

-lamp mode high
-filmprojection off
-contrast 100
-brightness 50
-colortemp d65
-colorspace bt 709
-gamma 2.2
-iris off (iris manual to max. open is about 1% less light)
-smooth gradation low

and last but not least use always the full panel so select aspect 2.35:1 zoom so that the sony use the full 4096 and not 3840 pixels horzontaly.
that will blank some lines above and down for 16:9 content but gain lumen for all content by 6.6%!

very importent as well try to use max. zoom as the pr. loose as other pr. lumen if you go more to tele settings from the lens.
the difference can be as high 40%!

try to use the pr. always in high lamp mode if you can as some lamps can have a problem with dimming.
it might be due to using low lamp mode but i am not sure.

that are the most importent points to get the max lumen out.

Hi Wolfgang, I just want to ask a few questions re your rec settings on a smaller screen size and tuning for best contrast, as opposed to max lumens and larger screen sizes. On my current 110", soon to be 123" ST130, I am running low lamp, auto limited, contrast 90, in cinema 1. Prob similar to what Mark's still running. I was watching Game of Thrones last night with a lot of darker scenes, so contrast levels were really noticeable. Also, apart from already using 2.35:1 zoom with content that matches up particularly film based, I have also set up 1.85:1 zoom. Isn't the 1.85:1 zoom also using the full panel with slightly less blanking? Apart from concentrating lumens, is that mode fairly ideal for utilising the full resolution of the panel with 16:9 based content? I'm just trying to ensure I'm best utilising the VW1000 for my particular screen size, which as mentioned is currently at the smaller end of the spectrum.

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post #746 of 754 Old 04-17-2012, 02:02 AM - Thread Starter
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yes depends on the exact ratio in 16:9.

when the movie was shot 1.77:1 you have in 1,85:1 zoom still a line drop.
when the movie was shot in 1.85:1 you have no line drop when using 1,85:1 zoom setting.

so depends on your exact source material ratio the 1.85:1 can make sense and can be a good compromise.

on the other hand if you use 2.35:1 zoom to use the full panel and the source is
1.85:1 the line drop is less compare when your source was 1.77:1 ratio.

if you have not any problem with to low lumen number on your screen i will not use
full panel 2.35:1 zoom or 1.85 zoom and run always in normal zoom(quad hd).

this is only for people that like me try to get every lumen out as the screen was very big.
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post #747 of 754 Old 04-17-2012, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

yes depends on the exact ratio in 16:9.

when the movie was shot 1.77:1 you have in 1,85:1 zoom still a line drop.
when the movie was shot in 1.85:1 you have no line drop when using 1,85:1 zoom setting.

so depends on your exact source material ratio the 1.85:1 can make sense and can be a good compromise.

on the other hand if you use 2.35:1 zoom to use the full panel and the source is
1.85:1 the line drop is less compare when your source was 1.77:1 ratio.

if you have not any problem with to low lumen number on your screen i will not use
full panel 2.35:1 zoom or 1.85 zoom and run always in normal zoom(quad hd).

this is only for people that like me try to get every lumen out as the screen was very big.

Yes, I hear you Wolgang. I noticed that with pure TV content in true 16:9, like many HBO shows for example, the 1.85 is def less line drop as should be logically be the case.

I thought your advice would be as you suggested regarding the smaller screen- I will put aside the other zoom options, particular if there is no resolutional gain to be had in those modes, only extra lumens. Do you have any specific advice though as I mentioned on absolutely contrast optimised setting? I think I am pretty much there in terms of my settings on my screen size, but I figure you're the guy who has the most know-how on this.

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post #748 of 754 Old 04-17-2012, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

Yes, I hear you Wolgang. I noticed that with pure TV content in true 16:9, like many HBO shows for example, the 1.85 is def less line drop as should be logically be the case.

I thought your advice would be as you suggested regarding the smaller screen- I will put aside the other zoom options, particular if there is no resolutional gain to be had in those modes, only extra lumens. Do you have any specific advice though as I mentioned on absolutely contrast optimised setting? I think I am pretty much there in terms of my settings on my screen size, but I figure you're the guy who has the most know-how on this.

When using the 2.35:1 zoom to watch a 16:9 program the picture is not actually brighter, it is larger. There are more lumens to the screen but the lumens per unit area of the screen is the same.
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post #749 of 754 Old 04-17-2012, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by KRGM1 View Post

When using the 2.35:1 zoom to watch a 16:9 program the picture is not actually brighter, it is larger. There are more lumens to the screen but the lumens per unit area of the screen is the same.

I always use 2.35:1 zoom for 16x9 (and of course, 2.35) material. My screen is 72"H and 144"W, so with a 16x9 pic it is 128"W, but with 17x9 (as it is with 2.35 zoom) it is 136"W. I thus get 8" more in width. True, this looses a couple of inches from the 16x9 pic, but this is not noticeable. (For 2.35 sources I zoom to fill the 144" width, having a pic ~ 61"H; I lens shift this to the bottom of the screen and have all the 'black bar' at the top, where it is hardly noticeable.)
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post #750 of 754 Old 05-26-2012, 07:40 AM
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