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post #181 of 754 Old 01-28-2012, 09:18 AM
 
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When we get shipping notice of how many are coming in the first batch and that they are shipped, I will call for cc etc for those who have preordered. Enough for all would be by the second batch a few weeks later. I am just not calling, nor is Mike G for customers from whom he took preorders, until we get shipping conformation. No one in the US has got one yet including the reviewers and obviously because of different transit times so dealers will get them perhaps a few days earlier than a more distant dealers. And then my review sample will then have to come from our location in upstate NY so I doubt I will have mine before a week from now assuming Sony starts shipping on Monday or so. And then I will get on the road after a few days of familarization and calibration and in my home demonstrations visiting some of our customers for an inhome demo. If anyone on the preorder list wants to give us their CC info now, and several already have, I would be glad to take it now but no wire transfers or checks please until we confirnation that yours is on the way to us. Mike and I are pretty much available all the time to take your calls.

And for what its worth, I have never liked the Silver Star which has been around more many many years. If I had a large screen and need light, I ewould elect a HP over it any day especially considering that its real gain, the Silver Star, was closer to 3 than 6. Having a 36 sq foiot machine and getting a 2000 ANSI lumens Sony, a high gain scren would be the last thing I would do in my black pit theater. I am going from my 1.3 gain Studeotec 130 to Studeotec 100. And I verified with Stewart what I already knew, the various descriptive names of of the Stewart Fabric, Snow___ 100 Studeotec 100 etc are all the same Stewart 100 fabric material. And yes, that material does have some optical gain spray material misted on to the near 1.0 gain white substrate material to obtain an absolute gain of one. Another great choice for me would be the Da-lite JKP Affinity 0.9 gain material but I obviously can not buy that for my Stewart 4 way masking frame and I am not inclined to try and buy snaps, punch it myself and fit it to my Stewart frame.
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post #182 of 754 Old 01-28-2012, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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i need to correct some thing i post wrong.

i talk about that i like the reality creation a lot but it enhance the picture a bit to much for my tast so i deside to adjust sharpness at the vm 1000 to min. and inside the reality creation both parameters to min.but this also is not enough so i decrease sharpness from the oppo 93 bd player to -10.

i found today out that i drive the oppo bd player in "source direct" mode and in this mode no picture adjustment is working!

i switch it the oppo 93 to 1080p mode and there he outputs also 1920x1080 24p but now the adjustments are possible.

to make it short -10 in sharpness is to much down for my taste.
i think best result is -5 to 0 sharpness depends on how you like it.


please also note there is under menue "picture"
under "motionflow" - film projection-on off.
with on the picture get much dimmer.
seems that this is may a black frame insertion.

to use the pr. at full ligh output use always the off version.
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post #183 of 754 Old 01-28-2012, 02:40 PM
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W.Mayer, when you get the PC with the Radeon HD 7970 graphics card... let me know if you need any native 4K footage, I might be able to help you there. And I don't mean "4K" off the YouTube or Vimeo.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #184 of 754 Old 01-28-2012, 03:36 PM
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Wolfgang, some very valuable information from you thanks.

Just wondering, if you were to shrink the image size when using the Sony so you get similar brightness to your Barco and sat closer so the viewing angle is similar, does the extra CR(5x?) from the Sony make a difference to your eyes?

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post #185 of 754 Old 01-28-2012, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

W.Mayer, when you get the PC with the Radeon HD 7970 graphics card... let me know if you need any native 4K footage, I might be able to help you there. And I don't mean "4K" off the YouTube or Vimeo.

thanks for your offer but i have very much stills in 4k and above and in 3d as well.

but i not have any video material so i may comes back to you when all
is running.
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post #186 of 754 Old 01-28-2012, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Wolfgang, some very valuable information from you thanks.

Just wondering, if you were to shrink the image size when using the Sony so you get similar brightness to your Barco and sat closer so the viewing angle is similar, does the extra CR(5x?) from the Sony make a difference to your eyes?

as the stack of 2 vw 1000 are not works to increase the brightness i try
to get used to the light level one vw 1000 give me on the big screen.

i can have about 7.5 ftl at the full wide and around 11 ftl on flat format.

as you understand coming from 70 ftl. its a bit hard for me

yesterday i watch a first time tv show in flat 11 ftl and me and my family
like it a lot.

2.35 format at only 7.5 ftl is hard for me.

on the other hand i watch in the past with the sony qualia pr. at around
5.5 ftl and this time i like it this way.

i not did a direct compare between the dlp and the sony but later i will do it.

yes i like the about 6 to 7 times more on off cr. ratio the sony offers compare to the barco 4k but on top of this
the sony have this adaptive iris that further increase this.

from what i saw i think the sony in 2d with the reality creation offers excluding the lumen the better picture over all for 2d 2k material.
thats why i may use it only for 2d.

i expect when i test 4k stills between the sony and the barco that the barco
dlp may will have some small advantage in high freq. as lcos drops there and dlp not.
but lets see......

i hope i can adjust to the low lumen level the sony have compare to the
big barco and watch all the 2d tv and bds content with it.

if i can adjust i will use the big barcos only for 3d.

please note that the sony did not bad 3d it did the best 3d i saw so far from a consumer pr.but there i have my other system with the 2 barcos that i will use in future.

if this will be true i can modify my barcos with the infitec 3d filter system
inside the pr. itself and this will increase 3d performance.

for all that have a screen in the till to 5 meter range i think the sony is the
one of the best pr. you can buy today.
as i not see any 4k consumer dlp anytime soon 2k dlps will have a hard time
from now on.

its hard for me to see any disadvantages from the vw 1000.
may shading is one of them as most lcos show some shading but on the other hand i saw also 3 chip dlps that have not a perfect shading.
but i guess that is very depends on the production variations.
at a color movie no way to see it at a black and white movie if you got a bad
one may you can see it.

yesterday my friend got his vw 1000 (seems he is beside me the first in germany) and he like it a lot.
as he had in the past a christie hd6k (1920x1080 3chip dlp with xenon lamp)
lets see if he like the sony but i am sure after i talk with him yesterday
i can say yes.
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post #187 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 12:48 AM
 
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Thanks for sharing all your info Wolfgang. I know it is a lot of fun playing with your new toys, but I also know it is a lot of work to share your info. There are many here, including myself, that appreciate your efforts.
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post #188 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

Thanks for sharing all your info Wolfgang. I know it is a lot of fun playing with your new toys, but I also know it is a lot of work to share your info. There are many here, including myself, that appreciate your efforts.

thank you.

yes you are right i have fun with it as it was my big hobby.

and yes its work to share it but on the other hand posts like from you and
all the otherer here that aprreciate it are nice to read and than this push me also a bit to do it also in the future.

"some" people try to make a big secret about how to get a good picture
for some reason.
i think forums are the tool give proposals and reoprt about what i found.
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post #189 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

thank you.

yes you are right i have fun with it as it was my big hobby.

and yes its work to share it but on the other hand posts like from you and
all the otherer here that aprreciate it are nice to read and than this push me also a bit to do it also in the future.

"some" people try to make a big secret about how to get a good picture
for some reason.
i think forums are the tool give proposals and reoprt about what i found.


Great info. With that screen size we just are curious of pitures of the rest of your cinema...
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post #190 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 03:11 AM
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Wolfgang,

thank you so much. You are in a very unique position of being able to see options like 4k Barcos and the Sony head to head. And sharing this experience is much appreciated.

I had the pleasure to visit our friend Norman and see his 2k Barco setup. The brute force light output is certainly an all new experience - like watching a very, very bright 4m plasma. The only issue is On/Off contrast - but you get used to 2000:1. So much light is great - but do we need 40+ ft/l on our home screens? Is it worth to make other compromises for the great light output of Barcos (size, noise, contrast, need for a separate room with heat management, ...)? well, everybody has to decide for himself. It all depends on how large you make your screen to make use of the light output of Barcos.

I consider 2000 ANSI lumen @D65 of the Sony a great sweetspot. On the other hand I prefer the "look of DLP", always have. And between a High-End Sim2 and a similar priced Barco it is hardly a though decision.

What I would like to now is if the Sony has a fully sealed lightpath? That is for me one of the great benefits of Barco. There is hardly anything more frustrating than ever decreasing performance (contrast/"clarity") due to dust collecting in the lightpath/lense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

as the stack of 2 vw 1000 are not works to increase the brightness i try
to get used to the light level one vw 1000 give me on the big screen.

i can have about 7.5 ftl at the full wide and around 11 ftl on flat format.

as you understand coming from 70 ftl. its a bit hard for me

yesterday i watch a first time tv show in flat 11 ftl and me and my family
like it a lot.

2.35 format at only 7.5 ftl is hard for me.

on the other hand i watch in the past with the sony qualia pr. at around
5.5 ftl and this time i like it this way.

i not did a direct compare between the dlp and the sony but later i will do it.

yes i like the about 6 to 7 times more on off cr. ratio the sony offers compare to the barco 4k but on top of this
the sony have this adaptive iris that further increase this.

from what i saw i think the sony in 2d with the reality creation offers excluding the lumen the better picture over all for 2d 2k material.
thats why i may use it only for 2d.

i expect when i test 4k stills between the sony and the barco that the barco
dlp may will have some small advantage in high freq. as lcos drops there and dlp not.
but lets see......

i hope i can adjust to the low lumen level the sony have compare to the
big barco and watch all the 2d tv and bds content with it.

if i can adjust i will use the big barcos only for 3d.

please note that the sony did not bad 3d it did the best 3d i saw so far from a consumer pr.but there i have my other system with the 2 barcos that i will use in future.

if this will be true i can modify my barcos with the infitec 3d filter system
inside the pr. itself and this will increase 3d performance.

for all that have a screen in the till to 5 meter range i think the sony is the
one of the best pr. you can buy today.
as i not see any 4k consumer dlp anytime soon 2k dlps will have a hard time
from now on.

its hard for me to see any disadvantages from the vw 1000.
may shading is one of them as most lcos show some shading but on the other hand i saw also 3 chip dlps that have not a perfect shading.
but i guess that is very depends on the production variations.
at a color movie no way to see it at a black and white movie if you got a bad
one may you can see it.

yesterday my friend got his vw 1000 (seems he is beside me the first in germany) and he like it a lot.
as he had in the past a christie hd6k (1920x1080 3chip dlp with xenon lamp)
lets see if he like the sony but i am sure after i talk with him yesterday
i can say yes.

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post #191 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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how you get a date at normans setup.

his setup will show sure over 40 ftl with a new lamp.

a plasma can show not much more than 20ftl.

i think we not need any pr. at all but if you have a pr. is very depends on how the room condition are.

for sample uwe that buy a 4k barco after seeing my unit have some daylight
in the room.
no way he can have to much light.

on the other side if you having a black box like my cinema i think
40ftl are the max. after this there is no point to do it.

i think in a dark room between 20-40 ftl is a good number.

as i really like to use the sony only for 2d i may make a compromise
and go back to 6 meter wide.
that gives me for 2.35 format around 9.5ftl and at flat over 13 ftl.

as i watch not so much in 2d beside tv and soccer i may can live with it.

if most material you watch is 2k i guess the sony is the pr. so far and
special 3 chip high end dlps will suffer in future as the picture is very very good in most ways better over all and just shading or ansi cr. "can" make
a difference.
but than look at the price the sony cost and compare it with 3 chip dlps!

i have no idea if the sony have a sealed light engine but my guess is yes.

as i plan to measure light out at 20/50/75/100 hours i may will check
cr. as well.
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post #192 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 08:07 AM
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Wolfgang

Great work, this statement says volumes

"from what i saw i think the sony in 2d with the reality creation offers excluding the lumen the better picture over all for 2d 2k material.
thats why i may use it only for 2d."
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post #193 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 08:22 AM
 
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Secrets of Home Theater. A thread? A new forum? I have heard that phrase some where before. But I mean no offense, I know how much knowledge Wolfgang has, his willingness to share, and how much we benefit.

So here is today's secret. Get a Sony and keep your screen size down to a palty16 ft wide though that recommendation is obviously screen gain and aspect ratio tied. Many of the big boys here won't admit but they actually have sceen sizes less than 16 ft wide so most should be good to go. I having a paltry 8 ft wide screen but could only reach about 50 ft lamberts filling the 1.78 screen with 3940 x 2160 of all those 4096 x 2160 pixels when my 1.00 gain Studeotec comes in. Maybe I should stick with my 1.3 gain because that would get me close to 70 ft lamberts. Actually its pretty easy to swap them out so I guess I will experiment. I suspect I will find 70 ft lamberts or so a tad too bright and I would prefer 50 over the 65 that I would get with the 1.3. I am actually concerned that at present I find 20 ft lamberts too bright and will need to ramp this sucker down by closing the iris down and using ND filters. ND filters are not a free lunch though and will cause a minor reduction in system MTF. What problems but nothing as serious as not having a bright enough picture to make one happy. And they say big boys just don't have problems like the small boys do. If they only knew.

Now let's talk a little about Sony's Digital Reality Creation (DRC) or in other words Sony's "real time" digital signal processing algorithms for to create 4K. Of course, no signal processing is really real time but will let that slip, its unimportant as long as one has adjustable audio delay built into the audio processing. DRC was first coined by Sony in 1997 to describe its first built into a TV line doubler. It had three modes back then.

Now Sony is using the same term to describe its 4K scaler/deinterlacer. In some publications Sony describes it as a new chip, and in others it is called an algorithm. It is actually I think a number algorithms and stored on some sort of encrypted programmable chip. Obviously, depending on the input resolution fed the projector, the processor will select the correct algorithms and this selection would be dependent on how the user wishes the projector to display 1.78 input source frames. But there of course is more. The No Baloney folks have offered the uses two uses addressable controls to fine tune its deinterlacer/scaler. And these controls are depicted as a 2D, xy axis matric with the x axis being the digital reality control and controlling the amount of detail ome sees and the y axis being called the digital clarity control and controlling the smoothness of the picture. These are described as controlling the digital reality palette and please don't for a minute confuse this with with color space palettes. I have never heard exactly what these controls do and they have always been a source of confusion to Joe Consumer as well as many video professionals since they obviouslt don't adjust the nuber of pixels created from the source but I suspect do adjust the actual sharpness applied to the scaled lines added by the scaling.Perhaps this is the control labeled reality. I have never figured out the label reality or detail. It might hasve something to do with deinterlacing where one can trade how many lines are used for different purposes and whhere for example lines can be used for detailed at the cost of additional deinterlacing artifacts such as comb filtering. But I just can't get a handle on what the reality control does re scaled images. Obviously the controls let the user address ertasin terms in particular algorithms. Perhaps some can address actually what these two controls do and just not repeat what the manual says. Obviously the opportunity exists for better scaling by third parties but the ful benefits of third party imprtovements would have to await the allowance of 4K 60 frame input. Thoughts?

As for using two processors in tandem (one in the Oppo and then the one in the Sony, that can't be a good idea).
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post #194 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 08:23 AM
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Another thought do you think edge blending might ba a possibility with 2 Sony's?
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post #195 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 08:52 AM
 
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Hi Lon. I actually suggested edge blending in an earlier post. Its rather easy with digital projectors compared to blending two anlogue devices and it is routinely done in the commercial sector, more or less just buy a box.

If you are interested in seeing one of these let me know. I will be doing some in home demoes of this unit in the CT/NY area in February though I won't be able to demonstrate 4K source material.
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post #196 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

.... Obviously the opportunity exists for better scaling by third parties but the ful benefits of third party imprtovements would have to await the allowance of 4K 60 frame input. Thoughts? ....

Lumagen has hinted that they are considering an upgraded Radiance that would upconvert 1080p to 4K. Anybody know any more about this?
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post #197 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 09:20 AM
 
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Yes. But my lips are sealed. And I don't know a lot more than has been publically leaked anyway (things such as cost, trade in programs, when it will be ready etc., no one knows yet).
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post #198 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Hi Lon. I actually suggested edge blending in an earlier post. Its rather easy with digital projectors compared to blending two anlogue devices and it is routinely done in the commercial sector, more or less just buy a box.

If you are interested in seeing one of these let me know. I will be doing some in home demoes of this unit in the CT/NY area in February though I won't be able to demonstrate 4K source material.

My Titan has edge blending built in as did my Christie HD6K-M. The 1000ES will be short of Lumens for my taste as mt 2.35 Image is 14' wide....
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post #199 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 10:51 AM
 
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I remember that 300 plus pound beauty and your current projector has a lot going for it even though it isn't 4K. If someone gave me a choice of picking between the Sony and yours, it wouldn't take me a split second to take your machine.
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post #200 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I remember that 300 plus pound beauty and your current projector has a lot going for it even though it isn't 4K. If someone gave me a choice of picking between the Sony and yours, it wouldn't take me a split second to take your machine.

Mark how you can say this without seeing the sony real production version?
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post #201 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

Mark how you can say this without seeing the sony real production version?

Mark:

Wolfgang, who has a great videophile eye, and whom I trust implicitly is suggesting that the Sony will best my Titan for 2D and probably 3D content. I know his Barco 4K DCI projectors certainly do
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post #202 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 11:25 AM
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Wolfgang:

Do you think it will be possible to Edge blend 2 VW1000's, I know you stated stacking them presented a challenge
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post #203 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

as the stack of 2 vw 1000 are not works to increase the brightness i try
to get used to the light level one vw 1000 give me on the big screen.

i can have about 7.5 ftl at the full wide and around 11 ftl on flat format.

as you understand coming from 70 ftl. its a bit hard for me

yesterday i watch a first time tv show in flat 11 ftl and me and my family
like it a lot.

2.35 format at only 7.5 ftl is hard for me.

on the other hand i watch in the past with the sony qualia pr. at around
5.5 ftl and this time i like it this way.

i not did a direct compare between the dlp and the sony but later i will do it.

yes i like the about 6 to 7 times more on off cr. ratio the sony offers compare to the barco 4k but on top of this
the sony have this adaptive iris that further increase this.

from what i saw i think the sony in 2d with the reality creation offers excluding the lumen the better picture over all for 2d 2k material.
thats why i may use it only for 2d.

i expect when i test 4k stills between the sony and the barco that the barco
dlp may will have some small advantage in high freq. as lcos drops there and dlp not.
but lets see......

i hope i can adjust to the low lumen level the sony have compare to the
big barco and watch all the 2d tv and bds content with it.

if i can adjust i will use the big barcos only for 3d.

please note that the sony did not bad 3d it did the best 3d i saw so far from a consumer pr.but there i have my other system with the 2 barcos that i will use in future.

if this will be true i can modify my barcos with the infitec 3d filter system
inside the pr. itself and this will increase 3d performance.

for all that have a screen in the till to 5 meter range i think the sony is the
one of the best pr. you can buy today.
as i not see any 4k consumer dlp anytime soon 2k dlps will have a hard time
from now on.

its hard for me to see any disadvantages from the vw 1000.
may shading is one of them as most lcos show some shading but on the other hand i saw also 3 chip dlps that have not a perfect shading.
but i guess that is very depends on the production variations.
at a color movie no way to see it at a black and white movie if you got a bad
one may you can see it.

yesterday my friend got his vw 1000 (seems he is beside me the first in germany) and he like it a lot.
as he had in the past a christie hd6k (1920x1080 3chip dlp with xenon lamp)
lets see if he like the sony but i am sure after i talk with him yesterday
i can say yes.

Many thanks Wolfgang.

With the correct sized/gain screen to provide the desired brightness the Sony is a winner.

70ftlamberts!.....3d must be amazing., in the same vein, the Sony on a smaller screen to provide that sort of brightness in 3D would be amazing.

Does the DI function in 3D mode in the Sony or is it fully opened to maximise brightness?

Thanks again.

May the success of a Nation be judged not by its collective wealth nor by its power, but by the contentment of its people.
Hiran J Wijeyesekera - 1985.
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post #204 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 01:01 PM
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Great info. With that screen size we just are curious of pitures of the rest of your cinema...

Various itterations (from Sony Qualia stack to DP4K-32B stack) of Wolfgangs home theater have been posted in Wolfgangs regular hang-outs f=86 and f=185.
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post #205 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 01:30 PM
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The VW1000 TR chart seems a little confusing. At least the one I have...

Am I in the safe zone in terms of fl and contrast from 18ft -19ft throw, 11ft wide 2.35 screen?

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post #206 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 01:35 PM
 
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Mark how you can say this without seeing the sony real production version?

You are correct. I can't say that except for the financial issue. If I could trade someone a Sony straight up for the Titan, I could then sell the Titan for enough to pay for the one I traded and have enough left over to pay for a Sony for myself.
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post #207 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 01:51 PM
 
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The VW1000 TR chart seems a little confusing. At least the one I have...

Am I in the safe zone in terms of fl and contrast from 18ft -19ft throw, 11ft wide 2.35 screen?

I worked on that chart with the Sony folks and if the one you have shows +/- 2 inches vs +/- 1 inches yoy have the latest. Since you have a 2.35 screen which or course is wider than the 1.888 aspect chips using wither the 1.9 scren chart (actually 1.888) or the 2.35 chart will give you the correct throw numbers and both charts show the same throws. Just plug in your scren width ain the right column in the 2.35, ignore all the other colums and your throws will come out correctly. If you plan on zooming betwen 2.35 and aspect ratiosand below, you must maintain enough long throw range to do the required zoom. One starts at close throw to fill the screen. As you move the projector furtherr out than closest throw you use up part of the zoom range to bring the image size down to full 2.35 width, you reach a closest throw number yoiu can go and still have enough to zoom left to shring the picture down for your lower aspects. The chart has these two. Every number has been doubled checked by me. If you need to go thru, just give me a call. I have to admit the concept of zooming etc when using a 1.8888 chip instead of a 1.7777 chip especially when fed a 1.78 source frame takes a bit of thought.
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post #208 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 02:32 PM
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Thanks Mark. If you could send me the chart you worked on, I would appreciate it. The one I had was something embedded in a recent review. You can send to adidino at live dot com

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post #209 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

the 4k computer not works at all as there was some major part missing.
so we can not try it.
very sad!

This puppy should do:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...deon-7970.aspx

"The market isn't ready for 4k video, but Radeon is. With full support for 3GHz HDMI 1.4a and DisplayPort 1.2 HBR2, the AMD Radeon HD 7970 is set for quad HD."

Code:
DisplayPort 1.2
    Max resolution: 4096x2160 per display
    Multi-Stream Transport
    21.6 Gbps bandwidth
    High bit-rate audio
    2560x1600p60 Stereoscopic 3D 
    Quad HD/4k video support


3GHz HDMI 1.4a with Stereoscopic 3D Frame Packing Format, Deep Color, xvYCC wide gamut support, and high bit-rate audio
    Max resolution: 4096x2160
    1080p60 Stereoscopic 3D
    Quad HD/4k video support

[]s,
Fernando
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post #210 of 754 Old 01-29-2012, 05:51 PM
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The review from the link in the 20k+ forum mentions no CMS in his (I assume preproduction) unit. Does the production VW1000 have a CMS?
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