4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 754 Old 02-01-2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

A couple more first hand impression of the Sony 4K in this thread for those interested.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/proje...r-uk-news.html

The pics from the Japanese site comparing the Sony VW1000 and the JVC RS65/X90 are very informative.
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post #242 of 754 Old 02-01-2012, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


The pics from the Japanese site comparing the Sony VW1000 and the JVC RS65/X90 are very informative.

I must've missed that. Could you share a link? Thanks!

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post #243 of 754 Old 02-01-2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike View Post

I must've missed that. Could you share a link? Thanks!

http://www.avac.co.jp/akihabara_inp_44.html

Though it's in Japanese, just look at the pics: the ones labeled X90 are the JVC, and the 1000 obviously the Sony.

The AVS thread discussing this is at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1391244
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post #244 of 754 Old 02-01-2012, 12:27 PM
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Thanks! Wow, those are interesting photos. Time to run that through the Google and read the AVS thread too...

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post #245 of 754 Old 02-01-2012, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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today i got my 4k computer and i try to feed stills in 4k native to the sony vw 1000.

the good news was that it works a bad news later.

i just take one hdmi cable connect it from the gc out to the hdmi input from the pr.
and i can select at the computer full 4k at 4096x2160 at 24p.

the sony displays it without any problem and show at info for the first time
4096x2160 24p.

the picture looks good but later in a other post more about this.

than i try to use the 2 min displayports as i like to drive with both of them both sony vw 1000 to see how they perform in a 4k 3d native stack.

sad i can only select resolutions till 1920x1080 for each pr.in this mode and i dont know why

later i found out that very likely the gc output is not the problem and outout a 4k dual desktop side by side or top bottom.

my guess was as it will be likely the computer gc can do it that either the
mini displayport adapter cable to hdmi is the problem or the sony
may send wrong edit infos.

it will be very helpfull if someone that know more about computers have a idea about how to solve this.
goal is to diplay my 4k 3d stills (they are processed in 4096 wide and 2x 2160 so 4320 high top/bottom) with 2 sony with the new infitec 3d filter systems.




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post #246 of 754 Old 02-01-2012, 02:37 PM
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Wolfgang - what display card are you using?

The new ATI Radeon 7970 is claiming to support the following:

Cutting-edge integrated display support
DisplayPort 1.2
Max resolution: 4096x2160 per display
Multi-Stream Transport
21.6 Gbps bandwidth
High bit-rate audio
2560x1600p60 Stereoscopic 3D
Quad HD/4k video support
3GHz HDMI 1.4a with Stereoscopic 3D Frame Packing Format, Deep Color, xvYCC wide gamut support, and high bit-rate audio
Max resolution: 4096x2160
1080p60 Stereoscopic 3D
Quad HD/4k video support


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post #247 of 754 Old 02-01-2012, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

A good test might be measuring both a JVC and Sony with a pixel fade-in pattern that starts at a full black 0 IRE then adds 1 pixel at rgb(1,1,1), then 2 at (2,2,2) on opposite sides of the screen, etc... Slowly going up all the way to multiple white pixels in the image at various parts on the screen. Take the measurements of the black level at the farthest point from the pixels in succession (middle of screen) ...

You might be interested in the patterns that Mark Petersen used here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852467

With enough ANSI CR it isn't necessarily that big a deal to have the non-black pixels be all the way out to the sides of the screen. Especially for things like where the brightest non-black pixels are 5% or 10% stim (which are both less than 1% of the light level for white pixels after gamma) and there aren't a lot of them (unlike the ANSI CR pattern where half the pixels are full white).

I believe he has a link in there where you can actually get the patterns he used. Some that vary the amount of pixels that are white and some that keep the same number of non-black pixels, but vary their level.

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post #248 of 754 Old 02-01-2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Wolfgang - what display card are you using?

The new ATI Radeon 7970 is claiming to support the following:

Cutting-edge integrated display support
DisplayPort 1.2
Max resolution: 4096x2160 per display
Multi-Stream Transport
21.6 Gbps bandwidth
High bit-rate audio
2560x1600p60 Stereoscopic 3D
Quad HD/4k video support
3GHz HDMI 1.4a with Stereoscopic 3D Frame Packing Format, Deep Color, xvYCC wide gamut support, and high bit-rate audio
Max resolution: 4096x2160
1080p60 Stereoscopic 3D
Quad HD/4k video support

The 7950 will also do the same if you're looking for a card that will push 4K at a cheaper cost.

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post #249 of 754 Old 02-01-2012, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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with post number 45 at page 3 i say that i use the
amd radeon hd 7970.

in this post is also a link inside.
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post #250 of 754 Old 02-02-2012, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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this will be one of my last post about the first short test with the vw 1000.

i will be adding here and there may be big news but not as I did in the last about 10 days.

as the rating how the picture in true native 4k from the computer looks comes to short in my last post here more about it.

to make it short the pictures looks very good no way you can do this with less than a 1/4 the
resolution 2k pr. have.
it looks very naturally with much details that my leica m9 can record.
the good optic brings all details very well to the screen.
this quality is not only in the center its all over very good from center to corner.
as lcos has even finer and smaller pixel gabs dlp have the picture looks as i say very naturally and you cant see any pixels on till
you go to the screen and almost hit the screen!




the bottleneck of this first true native 4k home cinema pr. is for sure the source material.
dont expect when some day 4k bd will be there all will looks very nice as often medium 35mm quality
not contains much more than 2k!

so at the end everybody have to deside by them self what he like or not.
as the price of a 4k dlp and all the action you have to do to run a cinema dlp system is extreme high may the sony is a very good option.
it do everything perfect and the only issue beside some quality problems that always can be found is the shading from lcos.
there is a wide range from good and bad units but for me I never complain about it and i own some lcos pr.
also the sony 4k show a nice shading at least the units i saw.
lcos show compare to dlp always a smoth very fine analog looking picture that some love some prefer dlp
that not have any mtf drop at high freq.
at the end I think that all is depends on the screen size the room condition and many other things as well.

i not thing that the sony have any problem to fill a 5 to 5.5 meter wide screen at gain 1.0 in 2d and in 3d may till 3 possible 3.5 meter.
It show almost no ghosting at all even at the start without any warm up and even 2x 60i 3d looks very nice.

compare to all other home cinema 2k pr. it show more than 2 times the lumen perfect 3d with no ghosting and it was
future prove with true 4k resoulution all this in combination with high cr.

as the pr. will comes this days to the dealers I really like to see how much lumen and cr. other will measure.
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post #251 of 754 Old 02-02-2012, 09:43 AM
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Well, Wolfgang I don't think it can fill intermediate size screens, without screen gain. Would like to have seen more lumens at the ISE demo. Gain was 1.0 size perhaps 2.5 meter wide, or a bit larger. Werner posted he re-measured the machine while at ISE, Cinema Bright mode he found, and this setting resulted in 1850 Lumens. Using a better than last week he noticed the presets were not as close as he initially thought, but he was told to expect a solution for this issue.
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post #252 of 754 Old 02-02-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

than i try to use the 2 min displayports as i like to drive with both of them both sony vw 1000 to see how they perform in a 4k 3d native stack.

sad i can only select resolutions till 1920x1080 for each pr.in this mode and i dont know why

I highly suspect the DP to HDMI adapters cannot handle 4k. Maybe you can just get a second graphics card and run one hdmi 1.4 from each. It is a shame the Sony did not support DP.
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post #253 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Well, Wolfgang I don't think it can fill intermediate size screens, without screen gain.

The question is what you consider intermediate size and what kind of brightness you want. If we go with typical cinema brightness of 12 fL at a lower output of 1400 lumens (2000 starting output minus 30% due to lamp aging) the VW1000ES is good for a 4.39m wide screen.

If we do the calculation with a new lamp which many seem to do one could go up to 5.25m wide which is huge by most standards.
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For those who want to "be there" every step of the way I plan to Tweet every moment from the second I open the box until it is hung with plenty of pics. Should be a lot of fun!!!

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post #255 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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the sony vw 1000 will cover 99.9% of all homecinema screen sizes.

and for those how have a very lager screen and like it bright this can may
be a option.







if than the light out is not enough you need to buy the big 4k dlp
if you can afford it or go back to 2k resoultion and a high lumen 3 chip dlp.

and btw i mesasure 4 unit.
all units have at full 4096x2160 at d65 more than center 2000 lumen with a new lamp.

some dealers in germany that got one told me there measurments and all are
above 2000 center lumen.
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post #256 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 10:41 AM
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Who makes that lense?


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post #257 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Who makes that lense?

It looks like an ISCO 4XL.

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post #258 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

The question is what you consider intermediate size and what kind of brightness you want. If we go with typical cinema brightness of 12 fL at a lower output of 1400 lumens (2000 starting output minus 30% due to lamp aging) the VW1000ES is good for a 4.39m wide screen.

If we do the calculation with a new lamp which many seem to do one could go up to 5.25m wide which is huge by most standards.

On the other hand, if you want to achieve a more digitally suitable 25FL at the half-brightness end of lamp life, using a 1.3 gain screen, you can only go roughly up to 3m.

Which is not too bad if you're a CRT guy.

Robert
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post #259 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

if you want to achieve a more digitally suitable 25FL

The DCI spec is 14 ftL and a 2.6 gamma.
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post #260 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

The DCI spec is 14 ftL and a 2.6 gamma.

That's why I never go to a theater.

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post #261 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Who makes that lense?

its from isco the "ISCO Anamorphic Lens Attachment III"


to bad the lens cover from the pr. makes it not possible to let the lens all the time at this place as I need to go very close to the projector lens otherwise the picture gets to big at the front lens from the isco3 and produce reflections.(using almost max. wide throw the lens can do at around 1.38)

with test pictures you can see the decrease from the sharpness in the corners but to my surprise this dont disturb me in a running movie!!!

as the sony offers a very sharp picture it compensate it a bit.

this lens will decrease the ansi cr. a lot as i report since long time but
there is everytime a trade of you have to take and again the high cr.
on off and the high ansi cr. that this unit very likely have (i not measure it)
will compensate it as well.

as i can gain about 25% light (measured at the screen not in theory!) it will be may a option for me but lets see...


robert i dont know now the exact price for a lamp for the sony vw 1000 but i am almost sure it will be by far less expensive than a sony qualia or a
christie hd 6k lamp replacement.
so if you change the lamp very early after 30-35% drop and not wait till the lamp is dead you can keep the light out very high.

lets guess the lamp price is in the 650 euro range and lets guess in
high lampe mode it can run 700 hours till the drop was 35% than your lamp cost is less one euro per hour.
your lamp inside your pr. the cost per hour is more i guess.
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post #262 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 03:08 PM
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A-lens use could be problematic as the air intake is around the lense?

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Ive just recently sold my Schneider m lens to help fund the sony. I was going to ask Wolfgang, but im wondering how many owners of the sony are going to utilise a lens for there scope films? My scope screen is only 3.6m wide so im hoping a lens wont be completely neccessary.

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post #264 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

to bad the lens cover from the pr. makes it not possible to let the lens all the time at this place as I need to go very close to the projector lens ...

I wonder if there is a reasonable way to disable the lens cover (even if Sony doesn't specifically support it).

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post #265 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybobjimbob View Post

Ive just recently sold my Schneider m lens to help fund the sony. I was going to ask Wolfgang, but im wondering how many owners of the sony are going to utilise a lens for there scope films? My scope screen is only 3.6m wide so im hoping a lens wont be completely neccessary.

Don't know about others, but I will certainly not screw around with an a-lens; will zoom for 2.35.
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post #266 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Don't know about others, but I will certainly not screw around with an a-lens; will zoom for 2.35.

Yep, thats exactly what im thinking automatic zoom at that!

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post #267 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 04:16 PM
 
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I am sure it can be done rather simply. When I get mine,Ii will examine how to do it but with my 8 ft wide 1.0 gain 1.78 I probably will have enough light not to have to bother with a vertical compression anamorphic. I figure with lamp loss I will still get at least 35 ft lamberts.

Now replacement bulbs, the manual says the bulb is the LMP-H330. The H stands for Halogen, the 330 corresponds to the lamps wattage, the LMP means (not a laser or LED).. Sony does not yet list it in their price lists but I think it will be $799 US MSRP.
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post #268 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 04:23 PM
 
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One of the reviews said $699 for the lamp. These guys have it for $899.

http://store.aikotradingstore.com/so...deo-projector/
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post #269 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

A-lens use could be problematic as the air intake is around the lense?

2 things.

first it is depends on the diameter the lens have and scound it it depends
on how much you shift it inside to the sony vw 1000 lens.

in my picture its i think enough space so the sony can take his air.

please note that the isco3 is a very big lens and there are other smaller versions out.
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post #270 of 754 Old 02-03-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

That's why I never go to a theater.

Do you calibrate (or have your pj calibrated)? If so, custom gamma calibration as well?

Quote:


Don't know about others, but I will certainly not screw around with an a-lens; will zoom for 2.35.

It kind of depends on one's horizontal viewing angle/screen widths whether there will be a benefit to anamorphic. If you are out there at 45 degrees or more, there may well be a benefit to anamorphic. I won't have any hesitation to use an A-lens at all as long as the AR of the 1000's panels are 16:9/1.78. If they are the wider DCI spec AR, then an A-lens use would only create more problems. If 16:9/1.78, I'm gonna use all of those vertical pixels whether it's 2K, 4K Quad, or 4K. But that's just my $.02.
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