How much better than a Sharp Z12000 MKII are the latest pj's? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 01-24-2012, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes I'm still using my beloved Sharp 12000 that I've had for several years now.
The screen is 120" Dalite High Power.
Here's what I've been curious about. Can pj's (e.g., Epson 5010, JVC RS 45, and others) show a brighter image, while also having a lower black level on dark scenes than my faithful old 12000?

I would really appreciate any and all viewpoints, both quantitative and qualitative, especially if you have upgraded from a 12000 yourself.

Thank you.

Jim Story
Here's to deeper black and higher contrast on a 120" HP screen.
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post #2 of 11 Old 01-25-2012, 11:38 PM
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How much better than Sharp 12kMk2?

For my 12kMk2 I bought a new lamp - only $189. The original lamp is 230 watts and the new lamp seems about 160 watts. The filament seems suitable for LCD projectors due to their greater efficiency. Previously I used only econo mode and in high contrast iris for best picture, and I switched to high brightness iris from 1000 hours.

Probably better to call Sharp and purchase replacement lamp from Sharp. This new lamp looks too dim. My instruments don't measure wattage, and I have no way to prove wattage is not correct.

Amazon had great price for BenQ w6000 with 30-day trial. Sharp claimed 1000 lumens for 12kMk2, and BenQ claimed 2500 lumensfor w6000 with 280 watt lamp. Gave w6000 a try.

Brightness, w6000: in econo mode, far brighter, and well suited for progessive lamp dimming.

Constrast, look about same as 12kMk2. With iris opened for high brightness, Greg Rogers measured 2000:1 for 12kMk2. He measured 3000:1 mid contrast, and 4000:1 in high contrast. On this site, someone measured 1000:1 for w6000, but Digital Iris might account for darker appearance than 1000:1 when viewing black bars. I guess BenQ switched from DarkChip2 to DarkChip3. BenQ never specified chip, and this allowed them to make a switch. Sharp 12kMk2 uses 0.95 inch DarkChip3.

Black level, about the same as Sharp.

Resolution, w6000 seems sharper than 12kMk2. Sharp used expensive Minolta lens and BenQ used a cheap lens, but this cheap lens projects an obviously sharper image. Probably smaller 0.65 inch chip allowed use of smaller, low-priced lens.

Lamp hours, 2000 hours in high brightness mode; 3000 hours in econo mode.

Anamorphic 2.35 projection with adapter, electronic vertical scaling built-in for DVD as well as high-res HD-DVD and Blu-ray. One-button press from remote. Sharp 12kMk2 has vertical scaling for DVD only, and for high-res you need a separate video processor.

Using HP screen, w6000 might be unsuitable due to extreme brightness.

Recommendation: for black level enthusiasts like you, JVC RS45 seems an excellent choice.
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post #3 of 11 Old 01-26-2012, 12:53 AM
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I haven't upgraded from the 12000 but one thing you're missing out on are the native contrast ratios. They have made leaps and bounds since the 12000. The DILA panels have more than 3 times the on : off native contrast than your current PJs panels. Another thing is, depending on the source, 1080p resolution. There are quite a few 1080p movies that will look noticeable better on a native 1080p panel compared to a 1080p source down-converted to your 720p panel. Sharpness should be equal to todays 1080p single chip DLP but still are better than 3 chip LCOS and LCD projectors.

Essentially the largest difference will be the price point that matches and/or exceeds the PQ that your 12000 produces. It will be vastly lower. Somewhere near the $2500 price point.

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post #4 of 11 Old 01-26-2012, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you emf and Seegs108.

I also have a $189 lamp from ProjectorQuest and it is dim! It's a replacement (under 6 mo warranty) of one that lasted 300 hrs, then blacked out.

Was hoping someone could say (from comparison) that PJ-X is far brighter and far darker.

That 30 day trial sounds good as does the RS45.

Jim Story
Here's to deeper black and higher contrast on a 120" HP screen.
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post #5 of 11 Old 01-26-2012, 08:24 AM
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I can't offer an exact comparison, but I upgraded from a Sharp 10000 projector and use a 110" Dalite HiPower screen, so it's somewhat similar. I was happy with the picture on my trusty Sharp, but after several bad bulb experiences I realized it was time to step up to the 1080P world, so I got the JVC RS45.

I agree that the biggest change in the picture was the contrast ratio. I noticed the blacks were blacker right off the bat. The 45 also has lens memory so I can change zoom and shift for three different aspect ratios at the press of a button. With my Sharp I just left it on the setting that gave me full picture for HD tv and left bars on the top and sides for wider screen movies. Now I can use the screen according to the source material. Fan noise is much better too. On the "normal" setting, which is the low setting, there is no fan noise.

The price was the last kicker. It amazes me that the 45 sells for such a low price.

Hope this helps.
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post #6 of 11 Old 01-26-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Story View Post

Here's what I've been curious about. Can pj's (e.g., Epson 5010, JVC RS 45, and others) show a brighter image, while also having a lower black level on dark scenes than my faithful old 12000?.

Yes. I still have a 12KII. Properly calibrated in high contrast mode the 12KII will produce ~4,400:1 on/off CR @ ~280 lumens. I upgraded to a RS2 3 years ago which was ~400 lumens at ~24,000:1 on/off, so slightly brighter but a BL 5 times lower.

The RS45 should give you > 800 lumens with at least 24,000:1 on/off with the iris wide open. The SOny HW30 and Epson 5010 should give you similar contrast but from a dynamic iris which means you won't get the same contrast as the RS45 from every scene in the known universe but in most scenes in most real movies the black level will be similar.
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post #7 of 11 Old 01-26-2012, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Gary and HoustonHoyaFan.
Based on everyones input here (and others), I have ordered the Epson 5010 from AVS (spoke with Mike).
Really looking forward to this!

Jim Story
Here's to deeper black and higher contrast on a 120" HP screen.
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post #8 of 11 Old 01-26-2012, 03:39 PM
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That's a great choice. It's a wonderful performer.

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post #9 of 11 Old 01-30-2012, 10:33 AM
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I have both. The RS40 is substantially brighter, has better blacks, better resolution of course, and better shadow detail. That being said, I live in constant fear that the bulb is going to prematurely dim.

The RS40 is in the living room with a 106" HP screen. The walls are light beige and the patio sliders, one behind the screen and one on right rear side, have blackout window shades. I have a kitchen blackout shade and a entry hall large window blackout shade. At mid-day the room is about 60% dark with all this but the RS40 shines like a beacon. I have about 450 hours on the bulb.

The MKII used to be in the LR until the RS40 moved it to the light controlled video room(a 3rd bedroom converted). The walls here are dark brown and the carpet is dark brown. The slanted ceiling is original light beige. With all the doors and one blackout curtain closed you can hardly see your hand at first closing. The MKII works great in this environment although the 720P is slightly noticeable on my 88" HP at about 10' viewing distance.

The MKII was calibrated by David Abrams, although with high hours on the bulb. The RS40 has not been calibrated but I have used settings from the calibration thread and they look great. Better than the MKII to my eye. There is definitely more color in the RS40 although this could be because of an hours mismatch on the bulb in the MKII.

Also, the RS40 is magnitudes quieter than the Sharp. However, I have never worried about the reliability of the MKII while the RS40 is my second one as the first was replaced by AVS because of lockup issues right out of the box. In addition the 2nd RS40 has occasional HDMI handshake issues that requires me to pull the plug from the wall in order to restart it. This of course is worrisome as it could become more frequent leading to a permanent problem.

All this being said, the RS40 puts out an unbelievable picture with one great viewing experience. Too bad the product is so fraught with danger!

Jack
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post #10 of 11 Old 02-02-2012, 01:54 AM
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Jack, thanks for your comparison and contrast of two projectors. You are right that Sharp 12kMk2 has a sturdy reliability about it. JVC has thrown the projector industry on its ear beginning with RS1. DLP owned black level until DILA took the crown.

I'm sorry RS40 is fraught with anxiety. But RS45 should be better? But we move on to even better with native Scope projectors and LED/laser lamps steadily coming our way.
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post #11 of 11 Old 02-02-2012, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emf View Post

Jack, thanks for your comparison and contrast of two projectors. You are right that Sharp 12kMk2 has a sturdy reliability about it. JVC has thrown the projector industry on its ear beginning with RS1. DLP owned black level until DILA took the crown.

I'm sorry RS40 is fraught with anxiety. But RS45 should be better? But we move on to even better with native Scope projectors and LED/laser lamps steadily coming our way.

EMF,

I haven't read the RS45 Owners thread so I don't know how they are doing on the RS40 issues, particularly the bulb life. It will take a few more months before we know. JVC could solve the problem by doing what the car mfgs do; issue a recall of at least the bulbs if not the projector for the other issues.

What is a native Scope projector? Haven't heard of it. I'm taking a close look at the new BenQ 61ST. It is the first with a laser light source(2000 lumens) and has a form of color management. Only problem is that it is the lower res 1280x800 dlp chip, is fixed focus, and has a 41" throw for a 100" screen. Hope they fix those items.

Jack
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