Sony VPL-VW1000ES vs. JVC DLA-X90R shoot out - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 198 Old 05-10-2012, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Tony, no arguments on the 3D, they need some help here. With the RS55, I run a 142" 2.8 high power and @ ~800 lumens D65 I can crank the iris to -13 for great contrast and is still very bright with HP. Obviously I couldn't do this with a screen this big that was low gain.

if the AV reviewer clamped the iris on the 1000 vs. the X70, I don't have a problem with that test since I'd want to know how they compare native vs. native. I'm a big sci-fi movie fan and looking for the best possible black floor.

I'm using an AT weaved screen so HP wasn't an option. It was either the Sony or a $50k Lumis... or a DPI.

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post #92 of 198 Old 05-10-2012, 08:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

If I declared I'm not the least bit envious of all the VW1000 owners, would anyone believe me?

I would!... Because I am not either. Had a chance to buy a demo for almost half of what they are going for....passed. I actually have a Sony VW90ES again...after owning the 95ES and a couple of JVC's, I sold them and went back to a Sony VW90ES. I don't watch a huge amount of 3D material, and when I do the 90ES seems to perform really well...The very first one I owned was really bad with crosstalk on "alot" of material, but for some reason, these later released 90ES's seem to be somehow improved...Either that, or my first one was bad... All I know is I don't see a huge difference with the better made 3D movies...Avatar, POTC, Transformers... ETC. Going to stick with the 90ES for quite some time...(until laser). If you see one for sale from me, it's because I bought a few of them...
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post #93 of 198 Old 05-11-2012, 07:19 AM
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With best case ~1000 lumens in 3D mode @ min throw, I'm not sure how the 1000 is going to be any brighter on a big, low gain screen than any of the other current projectors. If it was pumping out 2000-3000 lumens in 3D, that's a different story.

are the Home Theater results still being disputed? They were using a relatively small 118" StudioTek 130.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/s...-take-2-page-2

"The peak brightness levels I measured were comparable to those I'd obtained before, averaging about 2.1 ft-L over multiple readings. This means the 3D brightness level was about 8 percent of the level possible in 2D in High lamp mode (even though the default 3D settings pushed the projector harder than the 2D settings). The results did not differ significantly in any of the three picture modes."

"The visible results confirmed these measurements; 3D was not very rewarding with this setup. After five or ten minutes, I was ready to return to the VPL-VW1000's gloriously bright, vivid 2D. But while 2D and 4K are the Sony's calling card, most buyers are likely to expect a satisfying 3D image at this price"
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post #94 of 198 Old 05-11-2012, 07:46 AM
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Hey,

In terms of the absolute sharpness, the Sony 4K and JVC (kinda)4K both beat the VW95. How does the VW95 compare in all other departments to these projectors?
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post #95 of 198 Old 05-11-2012, 10:57 AM
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I don't know about the specifics of the Home Theater test, but when I saw 3D on the 1000, the only other projector I had seen that came close was the Lumis 3D Solo. I saw them at different times on different screens so I wouldn't attempt to say which was brighter, but they both threw a satisfying and flicker- and ghost-free image. I may see the 1000 again today and will update if I do.

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post #96 of 198 Old 05-11-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

so they clamped the iris down since it was a new lamp in dark room. I'd do the same test to see how it fairs with native vs. native. The iris is only going to help so much with my dark sci-fi movies.

Nothing wrong with comparing "native" with "native" but if dark scene contrast is a criteria then one should also compare the Sony in it's DI mode.

There is a well known poster on AVS who compared his Sony HW30 DI to his JVC RS50 on dark scenes "his" comparison comments may interest you. The VW1000 has > 2x the static contrast as the HW30 and an even better DI!

If one is interested in seeing the best dark scene contrast produced by the VW1000 one has to use the DI.
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post #97 of 198 Old 05-11-2012, 02:07 PM
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The HT review isn't the only one stating that the blacks on the 1000 aren't quite as good as the JVC even when the iris is engaged.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/sony-v...ojector_review

"Second, intensely dark sequences like the one where Lord Voldemort and his army look down on Hogwarts from a hillside show a little grey clouding over parts of the picture that should look black"

I'm well aware what I said about the HW30 vs. the RS50. My RS50's low lumen output forced me to run the iris wide open most of the time on that projector. I've also changed my testing techniques since then and run stacks with dual outputs to each projector for A/B comparisons.

The RS55 is a much better & brighter projector than the RS50 and I run it @ -13 which looks fantastic on my HP screen. The HW30 nor the VW95 can compete with my dark movies. I just had a 95 SBS with the RS55 for a few days. It's close in mixed contrast, but not in the primarily dark scenes. The HP is ruthless for projectors that can't produce the same black floor as the RS55.

I own projectors from each of these manufacturers and each has their pros and cons. There's specific, individual features I like about the Sony and JVC.
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post #98 of 198 Old 05-11-2012, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The HP is ruthless for projectors that can't produce the same black floor as the RS55.

I own projectors from each of these manufacturers and each has their pros and cons. There's specific, individual features I like about the Sony and JVC.

What is it about the HP that makes it "ruthless"? Do you think a lower gain screen would show more or less difference? My own screen, for example, is a woven screen with no gain.

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post #99 of 198 Old 05-14-2012, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JustMike View Post

What is it about the HP that makes it "ruthless"? Do you think a lower gain screen would show more or less difference? My own screen, for example, is a woven screen with no gain.


I'm not answering for zombie but his larger size screen and HP raises both black levels and brightness. It would seem that for anyone who watches more dark content movies that JVC is the only game in town that would produce satisfying blacks with that set up. But if the screen were smaller and lower gain then I think the differences between the vw95 wouldn't be as noticed.
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post #100 of 198 Old 05-14-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The HT review isn't the only one stating that the blacks on the 1000 aren't quite as good as the JVC even when the iris is engaged.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/sony-v...ojector_review

"Second, intensely dark sequences like the one where Lord Voldemort and his army look down on Hogwarts from a hillside show a little grey clouding over parts of the picture that should look black"

I'm well aware what I said about the HW30 vs. the RS50. My RS50's low lumen output forced me to run the iris wide open most of the time on that projector. I've also changed my testing techniques since then and run stacks with dual outputs to each projector for A/B comparisons.

The RS55 is a much better & brighter projector than the RS50 and I run it @ -13 which looks fantastic on my HP screen. The HW30 nor the VW95 can compete with my dark movies. I just had a 95 SBS with the RS55 for a few days. It's close in mixed contrast, but not in the primarily dark scenes. The HP is ruthless for projectors that can't produce the same black floor as the RS55.

I own projectors from each of these manufacturers and each has their pros and cons. There's specific, individual features I like about the Sony and JVC.


While black levels are better on the 55/65 than the 1000, the 1000 can produce a sharper and brighter picture than the 55, as well as a 3 chip Sim2 can, but at twice the cost of the 1000 and whose black level is even higher! What is truly remarkable about the 1000, among other things, is that it is competitively close to the black level champ and yet also has competitive properties compared to the much more expensive 3 chip Sim2.

I think many of us dream of the ideal pj as having the best of lcos and 3 chip dlp tech in a reasonably priced product. The vw1000 may not yet be that pj but sure seems to be closest to such a pj available today, with the advantage that currently it is 4K ready whenever 4K source/players are available.
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post #101 of 198 Old 05-14-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

I'm not answering for zombie but his larger size screen and HP raises both black levels and brightness. It would seem that for anyone who watches more dark content movies that JVC is the only game in town that would produce satisfying blacks with that set up. But if the screen were smaller and lower gain then I think the differences between the vw95 wouldn't be as noticed.

those are pretty much my thoughts on the subject. I like an image brighter than most people are going to be comfortable with, at the expense of a higher black floor with the projector dead center for max gain on the HP. I want the best possible blacks which the RS55 handles well. I use the RS55 for critical BD viewing, dark sci-fi and dark stage concerts and would like the see the black floor even darker as technology progresses.

If I needed the lumens and 4k content was just around the corner, these deals popping up on the 1000's would be hard to resist. I think we're going to see a gen 2 of this model in the fall (with less Q/A issues), or possibly a 1000 'lite' with under 10k MSRP. JVC isn't sitting still, so I'm curious to see what the refresh brings during CEDIA.
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post #102 of 198 Old 05-14-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

those are pretty much my thoughts on the subject. I like an image brighter than most people are going to be comfortable with, at the expense of a higher black floor with the projector dead center for max gain on the HP. I want the best possible blacks which the RS55 handles well. I use the RS55 for critical BD viewing, dark sci-fi and dark stage concerts and would like the see the black floor even darker as technology progresses.

If I needed the lumens and 4k content was just around the corner, these deals popping up on the 1000's would be hard to resist. I think we're going to see a gen 2 of this model in the fall (with less Q/A issues), or possibly a 1000 'lite' with under 10k MSRP. JVC isn't sitting still, so I'm curious to see what the refresh brings during CEDIA.

I think we are all hoping that laser 4K will provide the lumens and drop the black levels even more so that we can have large screens with lower gains. But along with those hopes are a reasonable price tag. If RED does indeed release it's 4K laser you know Sony and JVC will have to sooner than later and at competitive pricing.
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post #103 of 198 Old 06-09-2012, 02:28 PM
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I'm not sure if many here have followed the fervor over on the video processors forum over the new Darbee Darblet processor, that adds sharpness and dimensionality to an image without typical sharpening artifacts (when dialed carefully). I bought one and it is very impressive with my JVC RS55. And it got me thinking about the significance of a processor like this, re more expensive projectors, and how it may even the score somewhat. After all, one of the things really high end projectors do is give you better lenses for a purportedly sharper, more detailed image. And that's what the Darblet gives you as well. It really does give the impression of having upgraded your projector to something with much more expensive lenses.

For instance, apropos of this thread: The Sony 1000 has more light than the JVC no matter what you put in the chain, so that's an obvious advantage for some uses. But beyond that, what I infer from user reports of the Sony is that it tends to provide a bit more of a clear detailed image than the RS55, and perhaps a bit more ansi-type DLPish "pop" to the picture. And for these things you pay a massive premium, like $14,000 more or so. Yet the Darblet processor offers these types of improvements for a mere $250. Both projectors give you the advantages of 4k in terms of a perfectly pixel-free image. I have a hunch that if they were put side by side, and level matched for brightness, that any advantage one could see in sharpness detail or "pop" dimensionality from the Sony would pretty much be dialed in (or maybe even surpassed!) by the Darblet on the JVC RS55. Even if it didn't quite get there, I'd bet it would be so damned close as to make the extra money for the Sony start to get harder to justify. (Though it has other important advantages for some people, like better motion on the Sony. At the same time, the JVC calibrates more accurately for people with that criteria).

Of course someone with the Sony 1000 can buy the Darblet as well. But the point is, I'm betting that a MUCH cheaper projector like the RS55 can, combined with the Darblet, offer the pixel-free properties of a 4K image with the type of added clarity and detail that would give the regular Darblet-free Sony a run for the money. Throw in the better black levels and native contrast of the JVC and it's a damned compelling package. (It is pretty stunning, as I and some other JVC owners with the Darblet can attest).

Just musing....
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post #104 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 06:04 AM
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I had the X70 (RS55) and as much as I did like it I still would not be able to get my same excellent sports image quality. And I won't even go there for 3D! wink.gif

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post #105 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 06:29 AM
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I mentioned this on another thread. The primary reason most purchased the vw1000 is the brightness. If you are using a smallish screen (100 inches) then the vw1000 will likely be overkill and likely no significant advantage over the x70. I upgraded to a 120 wide, 2.35 AT screen. The JVC would never be able to handle it. The only other option for those requiring lots of brightness for a large screen would be a $50k msrp projector. That's where the value is. I'll also add, if you love 3D, JVC drop the ball big time.

So for me, the vw1000 was worth the investment. Brightness for large screens and very good 3D performance. Native 4k is a bonus and another advantage when content becomes available. Hopefully soon.

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post #106 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I had the X70 (RS55) and as much as I did like it I still would not be able to get my same excellent sports image quality. And I won't even go there for 3D! wink.gif

I would say the same, sports and 3D was awesome on the Sony, I don't think the JVC could get there.
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post #107 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I mentioned this on another thread. The primary reason most purchased the vw1000 is the brightness. If you are using a smallish screen (100 inches) then the vw1000 will likely be overkill and likely no significant advantage over the x70. I upgraded to a 120 wide, 2.35 AT screen. The JVC would never be able to handle it. The only other option for those requiring lots of brightness for a large screen would be a $50k msrp projector. That's where the value is. I'll also add, if you love 3D, JVC drop the ball big time.
So for me, the vw1000 was worth the investment. Brightness for large screens and very good 3D performance. Native 4k is a bonus and another advantage when content becomes available. Hopefully soon.

Well said. I've got a similar screen- 122.5" wide micro-perf, and as much as I like the JVC, it just isn't going to light it up. The Sony delivers the brightness I need, and does so quietly. The 4K upscaling is amazing, but I'm not holding my breath for true 4K content any time soon. The Sony compares very favorably with projectors that cost a lot more!
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post #108 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 11:53 AM
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I would say the same, sports and 3D was awesome on the Sony, I don't think the JVC could get there.

I'm curious to hear how you think the W7000 compares to the 1000 in 3D. It should be a hair brighter and of course no chance of crosstalk.

My RS55/W7000 combo is great on my HP screen, I mainly use the RS55 for concerts and BD movies with -13 on the iris. With MPC @ 3 and the Darby @ 30%, this will hold me over until round 2 in the fall. I'm curious if Sony is going to refresh the 1000 line or just wait until some new HDMI spec comes out with higher 4K framerate capabilities.

Cameron should stop funding projects to go to the deepest part of the sea, and spend that money feeding the tech industry a 4K 48 FPS standard once A2 hits in 2015.

I understand the W1000 can light up a nice sized unity gain screen in 2D, but ~ 1000 3D lumens isn't much for a 25K MSRP projector, I was expecting a minimum of 1500+. Hopefully next year they can add the lamp pulsing tech like they did with the HW30 and VW95.
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post #109 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I'm not sure if many here have followed the fervor over on the video processors forum over the new Darbee Darblet processor, that adds sharpness and dimensionality to an image without typical sharpening artifacts (when dialed carefully). I bought one and it is very impressive with my JVC RS55. And it got me thinking about the significance of a processor like this, re more expensive projectors, and how it may even the score somewhat. After all, one of the things really high end projectors do is give you better lenses for a purportedly sharper, more detailed image. And that's what the Darblet gives you as well. It really does give the impression of having upgraded your projector to something with much more expensive lenses.
For instance, apropos of this thread: The Sony 1000 has more light than the JVC no matter what you put in the chain, so that's an obvious advantage for some uses. But beyond that, what I infer from user reports of the Sony is that it tends to provide a bit more of a clear detailed image than the RS55, and perhaps a bit more ansi-type DLPish "pop" to the picture. And for these things you pay a massive premium, like $14,000 more or so. Yet the Darblet processor offers these types of improvements for a mere $250. Both projectors give you the advantages of 4k in terms of a perfectly pixel-free image. I have a hunch that if they were put side by side, and level matched for brightness, that any advantage one could see in sharpness detail or "pop" dimensionality from the Sony would pretty much be dialed in (or maybe even surpassed!) by the Darblet on the JVC RS55. Even if it didn't quite get there, I'd bet it would be so damned close as to make the extra money for the Sony start to get harder to justify. (Though it has other important advantages for some people, like better motion on the Sony. At the same time, the JVC calibrates more accurately for people with that criteria).
Of course someone with the Sony 1000 can buy the Darblet as well. But the point is, I'm betting that a MUCH cheaper projector like the RS55 can, combined with the Darblet, offer the pixel-free properties of a 4K image with the type of added clarity and detail that would give the regular Darblet-free Sony a run for the money. Throw in the better black levels and native contrast of the JVC and it's a damned compelling package. (It is pretty stunning, as I and some other JVC owners with the Darblet can attest).
Just musing....

I would love a Sony 1000 and almost ordered a JVC RS55 earlier this year but will have to stay with my JVC RS40 and Lumagen XD combo for the time being. That said, I did order a Darbee Darblet yesterday. Can't wait to get it and see if it is an improvement.

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Mike

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post #110 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 04:17 PM
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Interesting. The Darbee and a JVC projector looks like a nice combo! I'm gonna have to put the Darbee on my wishlist since I like that added sharpness and clarity without artifacts. The next JVC lineup and a Carada screen are also part of my wishlist. Saving my pennies at the moment...cannot wait! smile.gif
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post #111 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 07:04 PM
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I'm planning to order a Darbee as well, to go with the JVC RS45. I'm satisfied with what I get on a 120 inch screen. It's more than bright enough for me, maybe too bright at times. I'm looking for the JVC and this Darbee gizmo to hold me over for the next 3 or 4 years until 4K is a standard.
Even if the Sony vw1000 was under 10 grand, I still don't find it interesting until it matches JVC's contrast and black levels. I can get a nice DLP that is brighter and better 3D for much less if I needed it.
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post #112 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

I'm planning to order a Darbee as well, to go with the JVC RS45. I'm satisfied with what I get on a 120 inch screen. It's more than bright enough for me, maybe too bright at times. I'm looking for the JVC and this Darbee gizmo to hold me over for the next 3 or 4 years until 4K is a standard.
Even if the Sony vw1000 was under 10 grand, I still don't find it interesting until it matches JVC's contrast and black levels. I can get a nice DLP that is brighter and better 3D for much less if I needed it.

I'm sure brightness should not be a problem with HP screens anyways. Plus, if you are going for the standard 12ftL all you need is 550 lumens for a 120in neutral screen. You can get a RS45 for 2D blu rays and a Benq W7000 for 3D, HDTV, and sports. Together will be less than $4500. It won't make the Sony completely, but for $20K less, it comes pretty close.
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post #113 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 08:14 PM
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I'm sure brightness should not be a problem with HP screens anyways. Plus, if you are going for the standard 12ftL all you need is 550 lumens for a 120in neutral screen. You can get a RS45 for 2D blu rays and a Benq W7000 for 3D, HDTV, and sports. Together will be less than $4500. It won't make the Sony completely, but for $20K less, it comes pretty close.

Yeah for 20k less it is close enough for me. Besides 4K what exactly is special about the vw1000? It's not the brightness nor contrast or motion. Nothing matches a DLP in motion. There are already extremely bright DLPs on the market. I honestly don't get it.
It's a pretty piece of kit..no doubt about that. I personally think its over priced like most of the Sony stuff..besides the lamps.
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post #114 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

Yeah for 20k less it is close enough for me. Besides 4K what exactly is special about the vw1000? It's not the brightness nor contrast or motion. Nothing matches a DLP in motion. There are already extremely bright DLPs on the market. I honestly don't get it.
It's a pretty piece of kit..no doubt about that. I personally think its over priced like most of the Sony stuff..besides the lamps.

OK.... "Besides the Sony's 4K abilities":

Which DLP has no RBE inducing color wheel, matches or exceeds the brightness of the Sony 1000, has lens and zoom memory, also matches or exceeds the contrast of the Sony 1000, has equal or better placement flexibility- lens shift and throw ratio, and is also as quiet as the Sony 1000?

I'm eagerly awaiting the list of projectors that meet this criteria.
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post #115 of 198 Old 06-10-2012, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

OK.... "Besides the Sony's 4K abilities":
Which DLP has no RBE inducing color wheel, matches or exceeds the brightness of the Sony 1000, has lens and zoom memory, also matches or exceeds the contrast of the Sony 1000, has equal or better placement flexibility- lens shift and throw ratio, and is also as quiet as the Sony 1000?
I'm eagerly awaiting the list of projectors that meet this criteria.

I see your points DigsMovies. The only DLP projector I can think of in this price range is the Runco LS12d. It won't match the Sony in all aspects, but it will exceed it in others, such as lumens..it is brighter. Contrast ..there's nothing special there either 2500:1 native isn't world shattering.
Now you have some less expensive projectors such as the Epson 5010 that have better contrast, all while being brighter from all the data that I've seen so far. I'm sure the Epson won't be as sharp as the Sony. For someone wearing 3D glasses. Who would see the difference..really?
Unless you're projecting on an extremely large, low gain screen.There's a point of diminishing returns pumping 1000 lumen on to a screen. For all practical purposes how many use 200 inch screens?

For the few that do, I can see their need for such a projector. 120 inches isn't a large screen. I think of it as average. Most of today's projectors have no problem lighting up a screen of this size.
Now for those that are 3D maniacs. Again I can understand the need. For those of us watching 2D..I find it unnecessary. Don't get me wrong , I like a nice bright image. 1000 lumens on a 120 inch screen is painful to watch for most.
Besides the lumens, you take a major hit in contrast. Native contrast on this projector is no better than some of the projectors below the 2k market.
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post #116 of 198 Old 06-11-2012, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

I see your points DigsMovies. The only DLP projector I can think of in this price range is the Runco LS12d. It won't match the Sony in all aspects, but it will exceed it in others, such as lumens..it is brighter. Contrast ..there's nothing special there either 2500:1 native isn't world shattering.
Now you have some less expensive projectors such as the Epson 5010 that have better contrast, all while being brighter from all the data that I've seen so far. I'm sure the Epson won't be as sharp as the Sony. For someone wearing 3D glasses. Who would see the difference..really?
Unless you're projecting on an extremely large, low gain screen.There's a point of diminishing returns pumping 1000 lumen on to a screen. For all practical purposes how many use 200 inch screens?
For the few that do, I can see their need for such a projector. 120 inches isn't a large screen. I think of it as average. Most of today's projectors have no problem lighting up a screen of this size.
Now for those that are 3D maniacs. Again I can understand the need. For those of us watching 2D..I find it unnecessary. Don't get me wrong , I like a nice bright image. 1000 lumens on a 120 inch screen is painful to watch for most.
Besides the lumens, you take a major hit in contrast. Native contrast on this projector is no better than some of the projectors below the 2k market.


And a old quote from you:
:What I don't understand is why it is such a surprise when it comes to comparing native contrast of theses projectors? Really?.. There's already reviews out with measurements. Going strictly on native contrast, it's no contest. 2372:1 isn't exactly world shattering native contrast if you know what I mean.

On those Dark Sci-fi movies...native is where its at no matter how you slice it.
I thought everyone knew JVC does this better than anyone out there?
Do they have flaws? Sure..black levels/contrast aren't one of them.


Joesyah

The "native" contrast you continues refering is a measurement for a pre- model off the 1000ES - not the final product on the marked, who has a much better native
( but still not the "best" / "higest" number )

Wich other projector on the marked has a "native" in the 10.000:1 area ( DI off ) with a output off 1500- 2000 lumens calibreted to D65 and allmost silent simultaneously ?
and BTW the JVC dosnet have a better intra contrast then the Sony - isnt that a importent point for black/ contrast fanatic´s ?

dj
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post #117 of 198 Old 06-11-2012, 08:04 AM
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And just a quote from Art:

Let's just start this review off with some big statements: This is the first true 4K projector I've reviewed, and it's "only" $24,999! I have reviewed a few $20K+ projectors, and so far, this is simply the best picture I've seen/reviewed. It is 4K, which is technically four times the resolution of 1080p, as it has twice as many pixels across, and twice as many top to bottom. The VPL-VW1000ESt is also 3D capable (and comes with 3D glasses- ready to go).

I'm just dazzled by this projector. I thought it was outstanding when I first saw it at CEDIA '11. The VPL-VW1000ES projector (pre-production) had some issues back then, but the overall potential was obvious. At the CES show in January, it was even better. The minor image defects were nicely cleaned up, and I was really blown away. Now I've had a chance to work with the Sony VW1000ES for about a month. Bottom line: I want one. I can't really afford one, but my theater is crying out for one.

Even at its $25K - out of the range of the vast majority of us - price, it can justify that price against any of the other premium priced projectors, and it can certainly justify its price relative to far less expensive projectors including those JVC's that "claim" 4K, but really aren't true 4K.





June 2, 2012 - Art Feierman


Is he not seing things that apparently others do ? I do find it strange that everybody seems to want to neglect ( ? right word ? redface.gif ) the very high quality in this product - wich it off couse also shall have with that price level smile.gif

Just a observation.


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post #118 of 198 Old 06-11-2012, 09:05 AM
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I posted this in the VW1000 thread and asked for more screenshots but no one posted any?

JVC RS65 Preset Film1 Gamma2 OOTB settings.
Ridd-FILMGamma21.jpg
VW-1000-Joes.jpg
Sony VW1000 Joes settings all enhancements on
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post #119 of 198 Old 06-11-2012, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Is he not seing things that apparently others do ? I do find it strange that everybody seems to want to neglect ( ? right word ? redface.gif ) the very high quality in this product - wich it off couse also shall have with that price level smile.gif

Just a observation.
dj

Art viewed the X70 and Sony VW1000 weeks apart from each other. No one can accurately compare a projector from their notes, screeenshots, or memory more than an hour apart. It doesn't work in my opinion. He also posted a screenshot trying to show the difference in IQ between the VW1000 and X70 with 2 screenshots that were taken at different time periods with a different zoom on the image. This comparison can't be more irrelevant to the readers. It must be done in the same room, calibrated by the same person, in an A/B stack, tripod in a fixed position, etc.

The bragging rights of the lumen output in 2D ($700 lamp!) is somewhat diminished when just about every projector out under 5k can produce nearly the same 1000 lumens in 3D. The RS45 and HW30 are ~ 900. The W7000 is 1100, the Epson 5010 ~ 1400 @ D65. Home Theater magazine pointed out that the 3D brightness wasn't what they were expecting, considering how bright the 2D output is. I know this got some folks upset. For this much $$, I was expecting 1500-2000 lumens, but they left out the lamp pulsing tech we've seen in the HW30 and VW95. Maybe next year on V2?

I believe there are still some waiting for their replacements of the banding issue that afflicted some of the copies.

I don't think anyone in the thread is doubting that the VW1000 looks excellent in 2D, especially with the limited 4K sources going around. But it is 25K MSRP now with Sony's SURE pricing, only has ~1000 lumens in 3D and still not perfectly ghost free like the 3D DLP's. Then add in the potential change in bluray or HDMI spec in another year or so. If there's any chance for 4K 48FPS in the next 2 years, that's when I'm investing.

edit: those screenshots above comparing the 90 and the 1000 are of no real use.. Different settings, different cameras, etc. Even in the best case scenario with an A/B stack and a high end camera, it's impossible to accurately compare 2 projectors 2D quality. Screenshots are best left when comparing the obvious such as noticeable ghosting from 1 projector to another as I've demonstrated in the mini-shootout thread. This is easy to capture and show what's happening.
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post #120 of 198 Old 06-11-2012, 11:50 AM
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Zombie- I think you need to see the VW1000 for yourself. I had the JVC and Sony at the same time for a good week. There is no comparison. JVC has the advantage in black levels but that's about it. I've seen no ghosting on any of the 3D content I've watched over the last few months.

If you are able to find your way to the northern NJ area, you are welcome to come by and check it out.

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