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post #1 of 26 Old 02-09-2012, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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My wife and I have been considering the Sim2 Crystal 45 for our dedicated home theater but recently while watching a demo disc we both were able to see RBE which destroyed a perfect projector in my opinion. Since then we have looked at LCOS in the new Sony 95ES but it doesn't have that dlp punch if you know what I mean. My installer recomended the Mico line from Sim2 as there is no color wheel but we just about fell out of our chair both when we saw the picture and heard the price. Now I have been thinking factoring in eventual bulb replacement at $550 each plus the annoyance of dealing with dimming bulbs the $19,000 msrp doesn't sound too far out of line. Is it realistically to think that a projector will last 8 years (the point where buying the Mico and buying replacement bulbs is a wash)? From what I understand the optics and the alphapath light engine are both top notch. The wife is on board with upgrading to the Mico 40 if it can be proven reasonably that the costs will eventually even out. Your opinion would be appreciated
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post #2 of 26 Old 02-10-2012, 01:42 PM
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im not familiar with the sim2 crystal 45 price. if you want led but price is the barrier for sim2 i recommend you look at the runco q-650 ($10k) or 750 ($15k). afaik the difference between the two is brightness.

i have the d-73d from runco (two 750s in one chasis) and i love it. i highly recommend led if you can get it. just make sure you have a suitable environment and screen for it.
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post #3 of 26 Old 02-11-2012, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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What do you mean by screen? Higher gain? My installer recomended a DaLite high power screen as I wanted to do a 110" scope screen. How does one set up a demo with the runco the closest dealer to me is Chicago I believe. I also looked into the Digital Projection LED but the dealer didn't want much to do with me once he found out I was only going to spend $15,000.
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post #4 of 26 Old 02-11-2012, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Sim2 crystal 45 is $8000 also
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post #5 of 26 Old 02-11-2012, 12:34 PM
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The base projector for the crystal line in the Benq W6000.

The Mico and or the Runco Q is a much better projector all around.

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post #6 of 26 Old 02-11-2012, 04:38 PM
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If you really like the Mico, I would give AVS a call about the TruVue Vango, it's, at least hardware wise, essentially the same machine as the Mico 50, but both have their own take on the software. But AVS lists the Vango for ~$10k (or maybe it's $11k can't remember for sure).

I guess, with a $15k budget for a scope setup, my personal choice would likely be a Vango, Prismasonic HD6000 lens, and maybe a Lumagen Video processor. You could just about get all of that (depending on which Lumagen and which HD6000 option) for $15k.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #7 of 26 Old 02-11-2012, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

If you really like the Mico, I would give AVS a call about the TruVue Vango, it's, at least hardware wise, essentially the same machine as the Mico 50, but both have their own take on the software. But AVS lists the Vango for ~$10k (or maybe it's $11k can't remember for sure).

I guess, with a $15k budget for a scope setup, my personal choice would likely be a Vango, Prismasonic HD6000 lens, and maybe a Lumagen Video processor. You could just about get all of that (depending on which Lumagen and which HD6000 option) for $15k.

You beat me to it.

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post #8 of 26 Old 02-11-2012, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't want to sound dumb but what makes this product better than Sim2, Runco, Digital Projection, Vidikron, etc? And I have a completely light controlled room so LED's lower output is not such a concern. Another dumb question but do they make a 2.35 native projector? Having to shoot through another lens is only going to degrad
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post #9 of 26 Old 02-11-2012, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Picture quality and PQ was the reason I wanted a Sim2 projector in the first place. Sorry for the double post tried hitting E and hit send by mistake
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post #10 of 26 Old 02-11-2012, 10:11 PM
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A projector can easily have an 8 year life. So if that is your concern, it should not be one.

An LED projector + single chip DLP gives one of the best combinations due to sharpness of single panel and lack of convergence errors. Price and light output are the two cons but if they work for you, you should go for it.

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post #11 of 26 Old 02-12-2012, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by showcattleguy View Post

I don't want to sound dumb but what makes this product better than Sim2, Runco, Digital Projection, Vidikron, etc? And I have a completely light controlled room so LED's lower output is not such a concern. Another dumb question but do they make a 2.35 native projector? Having to shoot through another lens is only going to degrad

You mean what makes the Vango better than the others? I'm not sure that's really the issue, and I appologize if I made it sound that way. Basically my research has found that the Vango/Mico are largely the same except for options in their software. I believe the Vango has some more setup options, but those may be just related to the eeColor box.

As far as relative to the Runco, etc, my understanding is the Mico 50/Vango are Chillin' platform, which use water cooling on the LEDs and are thus brighter than the Runco/PD which use the Delta platform, so there I think there's a real benefit (extra brightness).

But really my big point was to look at the Vango because it should be "peformance equivalent" to the other options but at a substantially lower price allowing you to get some accessories, like a really nice Lens and video processor to round out your scope system.

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A projector can easily have an 8 year life. So if that is your concern, it should not be one.

I kind of waffle on this a little. First let me say on the facts I agree with you, there's no reason an LED DLP (or really any projector if you factor in lamp replacement) shouldn't last years and years, especially these higher end ones.

What I "waffle" on though is if it's really realistic to expect to want to keep it for eight years. Stuff changes pretty quickly in the projector market, and (well prior to my Planar) it led me to get a new projector basically every year. That said, I've had my Planar 8150 longer than any other projector I've owned, so it would seem the advancements have slowed, or become smaller than they used to (well that and I bough farther up the performance curve).

But to continue the waffling, other things to consider, especially in the $15k budget area are what's coming down the pipe, like do you care about 3D? I don't believe any of the 1080p LED DLPs are 3D capable. Another one is 4K, I have no idea what TI's plan is, but one could hope that with JVC and Sony pushing "4K" into the HT market near this price point that maybe next year we'll see 4K DLP. Or how about native scope projectors.

Just looking at the state of things I wonder if I got my Planar at a good time, by that I mean a "lul" in the advancement of technology, and wonder if we're about to begin another sprint of advancements. Could the next year or two see more LED DLP, cheaper, or 4K, native scope?

One thing for the OP to consider might be to go a little "lower end" for the mean time. Buy that good anamorphic lens and video processor, and then get something like a Runco LS5 (the former Planar 8150).

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #12 of 26 Old 02-12-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
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I don't believe any of the 1080p LED DLPs are 3D capable.

The Sim2 Mico 150 is.

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post #13 of 26 Old 02-12-2012, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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3D is not really any more than a novelty to me. Besides if my memory serves me right the Mico 150 almost doubles the price of the Mico 40. I really want the best 2D projector/scope setup MY money can buy. I have not personally seen the new Sony so I cannot say from experience but on a 110" scope screen would 4K make a big difference sitting almost 14' away? My installer did seem to think that 8K might be the hitch that keeps me from wanting this projector for 8-10yrs. I was unaware anyone was even exploring 8K so that shows how much I know.
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post #14 of 26 Old 02-12-2012, 06:32 PM
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Your dealer must have been joking with you. There is no 4K content let alone 8K.

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post #15 of 26 Old 02-12-2012, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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He was talking 5-10 yrs out but he might have been joking all the same
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post #16 of 26 Old 03-02-2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

If you really like the Mico, I would give AVS a call about the TruVue Vango, it's, at least hardware wise, essentially the same machine as the Mico 50, but both have their own take on the software. But AVS lists the Vango for ~$10k (or maybe it's $11k can't remember for sure).

I guess, with a $15k budget for a scope setup, my personal choice would likely be a Vango, Prismasonic HD6000 lens, and maybe a Lumagen Video processor. You could just about get all of that (depending on which Lumagen and which HD6000 option) for $15k.

What happened to them anyway? Vanished from the web. EEcolor processor was being OEM'd by Spectracal, PJ by SIm2, but the company seems to have vaporized.


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post #17 of 26 Old 03-02-2012, 08:56 AM
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I don't know, AVS still lists it on their site. Not sure if that makes me wish I'd bought one while I could or glad I didn't.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #18 of 26 Old 03-02-2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by showcattleguy View Post

Now I have been thinking factoring in eventual bulb replacement at $550 each plus the annoyance of dealing with dimming bulbs the $19,000 msrp doesn't sound too far out of line.

The MICO40 is not $19,000. MSRP is $17.6K, but it streets at between $15-16K. While it is a bit more than the Vango, it is supported by a major projector manufacture with a global infrastructure and a good prognosis for long-term survival. If you want the next-gen version of LED and can afford to pay a little more, take a look at the M150. I'm loving mine.
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post #19 of 26 Old 03-02-2012, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

But really my big point was to look at the Vango because it should be "peformance equivalent" to the other options but at a substantially lower price allowing you to get some accessories, like a really nice Lens and video processor to round out your scope system.

which anamorphic lens would go with the Vango sporting a short throw lens?
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post #20 of 26 Old 03-02-2012, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

What happened to them anyway? Vanished from the web. EEcolor processor was being OEM'd by Spectracal, PJ by SIm2, but the company seems to have vaporized.

Quote:
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I don't know, AVS still lists it on their site. Not sure if that makes me wish I'd bought one while I could or glad I didn't.

http://www.entexpinc.com/truvue/

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post #21 of 26 Old 03-03-2012, 07:05 AM
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Ah cool, must have just been some website troubles.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #22 of 26 Old 03-05-2012, 06:35 AM
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EE is still alive and well. They have been working with many manufacturers on their technology. The Vango is still selling as well, though with any model, excitement levels off as other items become available.

Generally LED does last a very long time. To the OP, it could last 8 years easily, or way more. But it isn't to say there may be a repair here or there as well, as is the case with any electronic device. There are no for sures for any electronics.

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post #23 of 26 Old 03-05-2012, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Ah cool, must have just been some website troubles.

Yep, was broke when I looked. What was the OEM company for that/their LED PJ? It was buried soemwhere in an old Vango thread. I'm too lazy to go hunt for it. In case anyone remembers off the top of their head.


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post #24 of 26 Old 03-05-2012, 06:57 AM
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It was a company in Hong Kong called Chi-Lin.

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post #25 of 26 Old 03-05-2012, 07:02 AM
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Funny. Close to Chill-in . Sorry, beavis moment.


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post #26 of 26 Old 03-06-2012, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The MICO40 is not $19,000. MSRP is $17.6K, but it streets at between $15-16K. While it is a bit more than the Vango, it is supported by a major projector manufacture with a global infrastructure and a good prognosis for long-term survival. If you want the next-gen version of LED and can afford to pay a little more, take a look at the M150. I'm loving mine.

Sorry I didn't bother to look for msrp I just know what my dealer quoted me which was pretty competitive with the vango. One question I do have for anyone interested is - Have there ever been problems with the mirrors on a dlp chip not returning to "0"? I am not sure how TI tests the chips but just thought I would ask. What is a realistic street price on a mico 150?
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