RED 4K 3D laser projector = $10K - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 12:30 AM - Thread Starter
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"Our 3D projector has been seen by many of the top dogs in the industry. It appears, according to them, to be the single best and only way to view 3D... in the home or theater. This is the one. It is a huge leap. Maybe the difference between 3D dying and 3D being mandatory."
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...60-Misc-Update

"Target price for home and grading suite is $10K"
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...l=1#post940596
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post #2 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 12:56 AM
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My money is REDy!

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post #3 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness View Post

"Target price for home and grading suite is $10K"
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...l=1#post940596

Don't get your hopes up too high. Red's original target price for the Scarlet was $3k with a lens, but now 3 years later, its finally released for $10k without a lens....

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post #4 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dicey View Post

Don't get your hopes up too high. Red's original target price for the Scarlet was $3k with a lens, but now 3 years later, its finally released for $10k without a lens....

But it's now a downgraded Epic and no Scarlet anymore. Different product and market.
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post #5 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 02:15 AM
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Yeah, RED hasn't been very good with predictions when it comes to price and availability of their gear. But they are beginning to get better at it. $10K might be a pipedream, depending on what the finished product is actually like. We'll see, hopefully sooner than later. Comments by people who've seen the pj in action have been very encouraging, to say the least.

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post #6 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

But it's now a downgraded Epic and no Scarlet anymore. Different product and market.

True dat. It's a very different camera now.

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post #7 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 03:43 AM
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Well, price is one parameter and performance is another.
If they in fact have a 4K 3D laser projector with great performance, that is by itself great. It means the laser technology is maturing and coming to the market.
Is it still not known if REDs laser projector is dlp, lcos or scanning?

Mattias Ohlson
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post #8 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

Well, price is one parameter and performance is another.
If they in fact have a 4K 3D laser projector with great performance, that is by itself great. It means the laser technology is maturing and coming to the market.
Is it still not known if REDs laser projector is dlp, lcos or scanning?

There was some talk that the speckle reduction was achived by vibrating the screen......could this mean scanning, also since it's passive 3d the screen would need to retain polarisation?

An active option would be nice, for those who like to retain their current screen.

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post #9 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Yeah, RED hasn't been very good with predictions when it comes to price and availability of their gear. But they are beginning to get better at it. $10K might be a pipedream, depending on what the finished product is actually like. We'll see, hopefully sooner than later. Comments by people who've seen the pj in action have been very encouraging, to say the least.

They have always hit their target price.

Correct that they have not been good at predicting availability.
To predict manufacturing speed when you are starting a whole new factory in the US isn't easy.

They are now manufacturing their cameras in California, where they will manufacture the RED projector and the RED Ray playback machine.
Factory pictures; http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...rker%2C+irving
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post #10 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

They have always hit their target price.

Well-ll, a case might be made of the "3K for $3K" Scarlet to show that their pricing estimates can sometimes be off. I'm not referring to Scarlet-X here, but to the pricing announcements made during 3K Scarlet development. Sure, they've been quite consistent with products that actually made it to market.

Quote:


Correct that they have not been good at predicting availability.

Let's call spade a spade: they've been bloody terrible at it. Boundless optimism has a way of messing estimates up.

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They are now manufacturing their cameras in California, where they will manufacture the RED projector and the RED Ray playback machine.

Yup. I've been checking reduser maybe 5-10 times a day for the past 12 months...

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post #11 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 07:22 AM
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Really guy let look at this in Perspective.

It is a 4k 3D laser projector at $10k.
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post #12 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Really guy let look at this in Perspective.
It is a 4k 3D laser projector at $10k.

Not yet it isn't!

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post #13 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Not yet it isn't!

Here True

but I am sure its shaking heads at JVC and Sony.


JVC Engineer: Hmm.. maybee we should move away from our failing bulbs.
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post #14 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 07:48 AM
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Call me a "pessimistic pragmatic personae" but i'll believe it when i see it for sale at the price mentioned....
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post #15 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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RED will disrupt the projector market just as they did with motion picture cameras. Their $30,000 Red Epic is fast becoming the industry 3D standard, putting million dollar film cameras and overpriced digital cameras into an early grave... Gone are the days when Sony could charge $200,000+ for a digital motion picture camera. Their new 4K F65 that goes head-to-head with the RED is priced at a measly $65K! And Sony's first 4K digital camera comes 5 years after RED delivered the 4K Red One.

"Disruption is our middle name... :-)"
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post #16 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness View Post

...Gone are the days when Sony could charge $200,000+ for a digital motion picture camera...

Gone are such days because technology advances with time. Products improve and prices are reduced. That happened long before REDs arrival.
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post #17 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 08:56 AM
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Even if it is double the proposed price, it will be still be cheaper than Sony's
4K home pj and I doubt laser source light will ever need to be replaced. Sony's next 4K pj may well be laser. But regardless, it is this type of competition that will bring these down in price to something more of us could reasonably consider. Of course this didn't happen much with 3 chip DLP, but that product may be geared for the relatively few huge home theater screens.
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post #18 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 09:01 AM
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Competition is great for the industry (or any industry), but it's all theoretical competition at this point.

Any organization could announce some fantastic product at some fantastic price, but until it's a reality, has been tested, priced and made available for purchase, it's all rather academic.
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post #19 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 09:06 AM
 
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I just want large scale lumens on these machines. I have a cinemascope 120 inch wide screen with a Da-Lite High power with 60 FT/ Lamberts. I want to go bigger and sacrifice nothing .
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post #20 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 09:38 AM
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If RED builds such a projector which they could sell at 10K and make a profit--they won't. Once they have it they will harvest profit by charging a higher price. It will not be until one or two competitors arrive in the laser niche that prices will fall. The point being that we will have to wait for multiple players to present products before competition will reduce our cost. All that equals a longer wait. IMHO. How much longer? No one knows.

Sony G90-->D-ILA--> LCD-->Vango LED DLP
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post #21 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 09:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlubbers View Post

If RED builds such a projector which they could sell at 10K and make a profit--they won't. Once they have it they will harvest profit by charging a higher price. It will not be until one or two competitors arrive in the laser niche that prices will fall. The point being that we will have to wait for multiple players to present products before competition will reduce our cost. All that equals a longer wait. IMHO. How much longer? No one knows.

How are you so sure about this? RED has been the leader in so many avenues and has shaken up the market place with its common sense pricing. This is why the major players are afraid of the young company.
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post #22 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 09:57 AM
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I am not so sure. It is speculation.

I am making an assumption that laser is a niche for instance. If it is, then RED might be first in the niche. That is very different than being the innovative new comer as they were in the camera area. If you think there is no niche, that all technologies are in one pot, then RED is back to possibly being the innovative newcomer --- and my speculation frays.

Sony G90-->D-ILA--> LCD-->Vango LED DLP
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post #23 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 10:03 AM
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I don't think laser-lit projection is really enough different from LED or lamp-based projection to quality as a "niche".

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #24 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlubbers View Post

If RED builds such a projector which they could sell at 10K and make a profit--they won't. Once they have it they will harvest profit by charging a higher price. It will not be until one or two competitors arrive in the laser niche that prices will fall. The point being that we will have to wait for multiple players to present products before competition will reduce our cost. All that equals a longer wait. IMHO. How much longer? No one knows.

I suppose you coud be right.

On the other had, the quote regarding the $10K price comes from the guy who founded and financed RED, Jim Jannard.

Jim Jannard was also the founder of Oakley. I would guess he has some business savvy.

Anyhow, the combination of promise, price, and technology should make for an interesting year if/when it comes to be.
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post #25 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talkingparrots View Post

I just want large scale lumens on these machines. I have a cinemascope 120 inch wide screen with a Da-Lite High power with 60 FT/ Lamberts. I want to go bigger and sacrifice nothing .

Have you ever found a comfortable pair of welding goggles to go with that
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post #26 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 12:05 PM
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I read through the Red thread but didn't see any kind of timeframe for release. Is a release window mentioned in any other threads on the Red forum? I vaguely remember something about 2013 for the projector in an earlier thread on their forum but that could just be my brain playing tricks on me.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #27 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 01:52 PM
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The Red forum seems like a cult...everyone singing Jannard's praises like he can do no wrong...no debate, no opposing views. All he has to do is declare that a new product is coming and float a competitive price with no details, and everyone is falling all over themselves with glee. Can you see a respected projector manufacture doing this...promising at some point in the indefinite future to bring out the Holy Grail of projectors for a pittance? No mention of underlying technology (DLP, LCOS/LCD, scanning); no indication of how speckle will be dealt with. Just "trust me". And everyone does.
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post #28 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 02:15 PM
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But look what Jannard did with Oakley! Revolutionary yet inexpensive eyewear, well beyond the offerings of their competitors!!

oh, wait...

Someone astutely pointed out earlier that he is a rather savvy businessman. That should tell you all you need to know about the possibility of him giving away the farm with a product that is supposedly technologically unique and superior to other offerings in the marketplace.
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post #29 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 02:20 PM
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Well, if he promissed before and delivered... What's the problem in trusting?
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post #30 of 768 Old 02-14-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

But look what Jannard did with Oakley! Revolutionary yet inexpensive eyewear, well beyond the offerings of their competitors!!

oh, wait...

Someone astutely pointed out earlier that he is a rather savvy businessman. That should tell you all you need to know about the possibility of him giving away the farm with a product that is supposedly technologically unique and superior to other offerings in the marketplace.

The projector is a pig in a poke at this point, no doubt. As I said, it will will be an interesting year if it comes out.

Yes, I would say Jannard is a savvy business man. Oakley's contract with the US Pentagon is worth more than most eye wear manufactures business plans, let alone selling product to the rest of the world I would imagine.

Say what you will, but Jannard and his companies have delivered quality products. An ever increasing number of high grossing films are being produced using Red cameras.

BTW, what's your net worth and what interesting products and start up companies have you brought to market Fat Dave?
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