Help me spend $5000! Photos + details inside. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 02-17-2012, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, now that I have pretty much decided to convert to projector, I elected to start a new thread...

Below are a couple of photos of the room, along with key characteristics/dimensions:

Distance from Viewing Wall to Sofa Seat Back: 14.5 ft
Width of Viewing Wall: 16 ft
Ceiling Height: 8 ft 6 in
Width from Outside of Front Left Speaker to Outside of Front Right Speaker: 8 ft
Height from Top of Center Speaker to Ceiling: 5 ft 4 in
Surface Colors: Ceiling is white, walls are Sherwin-Williams SW6143 Basket Beige
Current TV (going back to Samsung): UN65D8000
2D/3D Priority: Although I do want a quality 3D-viewing experience, 2D quality is most important as that will be 90% of my viewing.
Usage: Primarily movies at night, with some TV viewing and Wii play (I'm not a gamer). I do watch football all day Sundays during the NFL season.
Budget: $5000
Bottom Line: I would like for you more experienced forum members to recommend an exact make/model projector and screen for this application.







Concerns:
  1. Right now I have my Blu-ray, DirecTV STB, and Wii all wired to the AVR via HDMI, and then a single HDMI cable running from the AVR to the TV. Will I still be able to do this with a projector?
  2. I currently have an Ethernet cable wired to the TV. Will I be able to do the same with a projector? (can I still stream Netflix, etc., or can/must I do that via the Blu-ray?)
  3. Given my entertainment center there below the TV, will this allow me to use a 100" or larger screen, or is it simply too large/high?
  4. Although my drapes aren't technically "black-out" drapes, they do a pretty good job of keeping the light out when closed. There is an identical window with identical drapes directly to the right of where I am standing to take the first photo. Is this enough light control?
  5. Will fan noise be a concern since I'm assuming the projector will be directly above the primary viewing position?
  6. How big of a deal are the various source material aspect ratios where screen size/shape is concerned?

Questions:
  1. What would be the very next step up from the Epson Home Cinema 5010 or JVC DLA-RS45?
  2. Would you recommend a fixed screen mounted on the wall, or one of those automatic retractable ones?
  3. When you suggest a screen size for me, can you also indicate how far back on the ceiling the projector will need to be mounted?
  4. Is there any "warm up" time for a projector, or will I still be able to grab a plate of food, walk downstairs, turn everything on, and immediately start watching TV or a movie?
  5. If a select a projector like the Epson Home Cinema 5010, JVC DLA-RS45, or the next step up, will there be a lot of calibration necessary, or is it pretty much ready to go right out of the box. Or, will there be calibration settings posted here I would be able to use? I'm in Southwest Missouri, so having an ISF tech come out is not an option. I do have the Disney WOW Blu-ray.
  6. I currently have 5 pair of Samsung SSG-3300GR 3D Active Glasses. Is it possible I will still be able to use these with the projector I select?
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post #2 of 38 Old 02-17-2012, 08:04 AM
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[*]Right now I have my Blu-ray, DirecTV STB, and Wii all wired to the AVR via HDMI, and then a single HDMI cable running from the AVR to the TV. Will I still be able to do this with a projector? Yes. That setup wiill work fine.
[*]I currently have an Ethernet cable wired to the TV. Will I be able to do the same with a projector? (can I still stream Netflix, etc., or can/must I do that via the Blu-ray?) . SmartTV functionality can be found in many devices such as a Roku, PS3 or most new blu ray players. I believe Logitech has a decent device as well and they're all relatively inexpensive.
[*]Given my entertainment center there below the TV, will this allow me to use a 100" or larger screen, or is it simply too large/high? You might be able to get away with it. Most online vendors will be able to give you the width/height of the screen you're looking at.
[*]Although my drapes aren't technically "black-out" drapes, they do a pretty good job of keeping the light out when closed. There is an identical window with identical drapes directly to the right of where I am standing to take the first photo. Is this enough light control? I purchased a set of Bali shades that block out 100% of light. Look and function much better than drapes.
[*]Will fan noise be a concern since I'm assuming the projector will be directly above the primary viewing position? Newer projectors have become much quieter. For a 100" screen, you're not going to need a light cannon or have to run your projector on high. Fan noise shouldn't be a problem unless you pick a projector with a noisy fan.
[*]How big of a deal are the various aspect ratios? I wouldn't worry about this too much. All of the good projectors being mentioned here are 16:9 projectors.

[*]What would be the very next step up from the Epson Home Cinema 5010 or JVC DLA-RS45? I'll let the lcd guys answer that question. My thought is the RS55.[*]Would you recommend a fixed screen mounted on the wall, or one of those automatic retractable ones? Fixed is always better if you can do it. If you need to hide the screen, then go electric.[*]When you suggest a screen size for me, can you also indicate how far back on the ceiling the projector will need to be mounted? That is dependent on the projector as they're all different. You can use the projector calculator at http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...ulator-pro.cfm to help determine the throw distance.
[*]Is there any "warm up" time for a projector, or will I still be able to grab a plate of food, walk downstairs, turn everything on, and immediately start watching TV or a movie? Projector lamps all need a few minutes to warm up to full brightness. Usually takes just a couple of minutes.
[*]If a select a projector like the Epson Home Cinema 5010, JVC DLA-RS45, or the next step up, will there be a lot of calibration necessary, or is it pretty much ready to go right out of the box. Or, will there be calibration settings posted here I would be able to use? I'm in Southwest Missouri, so having an ISF tech come out is not an option. There's tons of settings available on this site you can use. Of course, you could always do a basic calibration yourself using a calibration disk.
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post #3 of 38 Old 02-17-2012, 08:15 AM
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A couple of other things you'll need to take into consideration is what you plan on using the projector for. Are you a gamer? Will there be ambient light? Will you use it for movies, sports, or both? For example, the RS45 is great for movies, but not as good as the Sony HW30 for gaming due to input lag. Make sure you pick a projector that is strong at everything you're going to be using it for. I prefer dlp, but like the HW30 and am waiting on the reviews for the w7000 with the new firmware.

Alot of folks will say go with the biggest screen you can fit. I like a bigger screen, but personally I don't like a screen so big that I have to move my head or eyes to view. Go with a screen size that minimizes head and eye movement. You will experience eye fatigue if the screen is too big for your seating position.A 100" screen would work well since your seating area is back at least 1.5x the screen width.
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post #4 of 38 Old 02-17-2012, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondaedg View Post

A couple of other things you'll need to take into consideration is what you plan on using the projector for. Are you a gamer? Will there be ambient light? Will you use it for movies, sports, or both? For example, the RS45 is great for movies, but not as good as the Sony HW30 for gaming due to input lag. Make sure you pick a projector that is strong at everything you're going to be using it for. I prefer dlp, but like the HW30 and am waiting on the reviews for the w7000 with the new firmware.

Alot of folks will say go with the biggest screen you can fit. I like a bigger screen, but personally I don't like a screen so big that I have to move my head or eyes to view. Go with a screen size that minimizes head and eye movement. You will experience eye fatigue if the screen is too big for your seating position.A 100" screen would work well since your seating area is back at least 1.5x the screen width.

I am not a gamer, and will be using primarily for movies, with some TV viewing and Wii play. There will be ambient light, yes, but I can pretty much control it, and most of our viewing will take place at night.
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post #5 of 38 Old 02-17-2012, 10:01 AM
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You've got lots of options under $3500 which leaves you with some cash left over for a screen and any electrical work you'll need done. I'm a big fan of the Benq w6000 which can be purchased for under 2k right now.
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post #6 of 38 Old 02-18-2012, 08:29 PM
 
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post #7 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 04:19 AM
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I am a huge fan of the Jvc as I have the rs60 on a 100" screen. I had a very in depth convo with my Isf calibrator an he said that the new line of Jvc you should stay at 100" with 1.0 gain screen. Anything bigger you will need a higher grain screen and the goal is to not have to use the screen to boost brightness hence why a 100" screen with these projectors is optimal. I would go with the rs45 and to meet your budget a carada cinema white 100" fixed frame screen. The owner is great. I would also go with the chief Jvc mount which is hands down the best mount for the Jvc projector. Fan noise is not an issue as I have mine directly over my head while watching tv or movies. I also have an Xbox 360 and pa3 and no issues. You will eventually have to Isf calibrate which will put you over budget but its worth it, but you can't do that until you have atleast 75 hrs on the bulb anyway,
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post #8 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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mjg100, can you email or PM me?
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post #9 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 01:22 PM
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Patrick,

If you will be going with the JVC projector, be sure to buy the RS45 and not the RS55 or RS65. JVC will be fixing 3D this year (and getting it right), they will also improve the lighting source and 4K is also coming. The big upgrade will probably be coming with the next model year or the 2014 models. You will want to upgrade then, so make sure you do not spend a lot on the projector. It will lose value rapidly. The RS55 (like the RS50 from last year) will be virtually impossible to sell at a reasonable price at the end of this year.

John
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post #10 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

Patrick,

If you will be going with the JVC projector, be sure to buy the RS45 and not the RS55 or RS65. JVC will be fixing 3D this year (and getting it right), they will also improve the lighting source and 4K is also coming. The big upgrade will probably be coming with the next model year or the 2014 models. You will want to upgrade then, so make sure you do not spend a lot on the projector. It will lose value rapidly. The RS55 (like the RS50 from last year) will be virtually impossible to sell at a reasonable price at the end of this year.

John

Do you think the Epson 5010 or 6010 would be a better choice? Why exactly do you not recommend I spend a lot on a projector now?
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post #11 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick G View Post

Do you think the Epson 5010 or 6010 would be a better choice? Why exactly do you not recommend I spend a lot on a projector now?

Patrick,

Because you are going to love it so much that you are going to want to upgrade when the new technological advances occur. The big ones usually come every three years for most major electronics. The current generation of JVC projectors is in its second year. In order to get maximum return on your projector when you go to sell it, you are going to want to go cheap. The reason for this is the RS55 and RS65 are about to get a serious overhall - 4K, No ghosting 3D and better quality lamps. This will render the RS55 resale price in the low 3K region at best. Which means if you do want to upgrade you will lose ~ 2K when you go to resell it. On the other hand, if you purchase the RS45 for ~ $2,600, and you decide to sell it to upgrade to next year's model, you will likely sell it for ~ $1,800 and only lose $800 in your upgrade to the new model of your choice. That is an extra $1,200 available for your upgrade.

The fact is JVC is behind the curve on 3D and their lamp technology and they need to catch up or they are dead. On the Epsons, I have not seen one. However, I would think they would be better on 3D, but on 2D the JVC should be significantly more refined.

Best regards,

John
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post #12 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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By the way, do I need to have an electrical outlet installed in the ceiling for the projector, or can my local Home Theater Installer direct-wire it to one of those can lights? Also, the HDMI run will be pushing 50-ft, and may even require a 75-footer since the joists run east and west in the photo. Is that a deal-breaker? If not, for future-proofing, is there anything additional I should have run to the projector besides a single HDMI?
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post #13 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 07:32 AM
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Patrick, you're going to want to get a battery backup with sinwave.

as for your question on outlets... I ran a heavy extension cable up my wall and spliced it into an outlet. Then the other end runs out of the wall and plugs directly into the battery backup.

I also recommend not spending a ton of money on a projector. I'm running a two pj setup at the moment. JVC RS1 and a RS40. The #1 thing you'll be waiting for is a bulbless projector. Right now I can't wait until I don't have to buy bulbs anymore or deal with how unstable they can be. It looks like next year there might be some projectors at a reasonable price to make my dream a reality. If you suffer a lot from buyers remorse, just wait until you put down $5k on a sweet projector then only put 300hrs on it AND THEN a sweeter new and improved model comes out Guess what? you can't have it! lol

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post #14 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm really leaning towards the Epson 6010 for the THX modes, which would save me the significant expense (and unpredictable result) of having a calibration done in southwest Missouri. And how in the heck do I implement a UPS for a ceiling-mounted projector without visible wires?
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post #15 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 08:48 AM
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Well you need to run a hdmi cable, right? you do the extension cable at the same time. While you're at it, you might as well paint your walls a dark color

It's never ending

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post #16 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick G View Post

By the way, do I need to have an electrical outlet installed in the ceiling for the projector, or can my local Home Theater Installer direct-wire it to one of those can lights? Also, the HDMI run will be pushing 50-ft, and may even require a 75-footer since the joists run east and west in the photo. Is that a deal-breaker? If not, for future-proofing, is there anything additional I should have run to the projector besides a single HDMI?

With that kind of distance you should look at getting a HDMI Balun or wireless HDMI kit. DVDO is coming out with what looks like a nice wireless kit next month. IOGEAR also makes a wireless.

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post #17 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

With that kind of distance you should look at getting a HDMI Balun or wireless HDMI kit. DVDO is coming out with what looks like a nice wireless kit next month.

Really? A premium HDMI 1.4-spec'd cable can't handle 75 ft? I can't believe that distance is unusual for a projector setup.
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post #18 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
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mjg100, can you email or PM me?

Not able to PM. Please send me an email.

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post #19 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 11:52 AM
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75 ft is long. As Mike said you may need to resort to special cable setups. Or get a racetrack type device and run along your ceiling for a more direct shot from source to projector.

Since you said you like sports, dont forget the Sony hw30. It was mentioned earlier in this thread for gaming needs, but anything with motion is better on that Sony. Also 3d is better. And the bulbs are cheaper and seem to last longer.

Regarding calibration... If you want to put some effort into learning, you can get a decent meter and calibration software for ~$500. I like Calman, but Chromapure seems easier to learn for a beginner.
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post #20 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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If I can get it done in 50-ft, would you recommend I proceed cabled?
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post #21 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 12:01 PM
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Check out this link and dig around their site more... it should answer most of your distance questions.

http://bluejeanscable.com/articles/h...n.htm?hdmidept
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post #22 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Is this a problem that Epson 5010e's wirelessHD feature can solve for me?
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post #23 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 01:09 PM
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No idea. I shy away from wireless anything when I can help it. HDMI has enough handshaking issues without adding wireless issues. BUT - I am sure there are many that have a successful setup with wireless HDMI. It would be a last resort for me, personally.
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post #24 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 06:46 PM
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I would get a HDMI over Cat5/6 coverter for that kind of length.
Monoprice have that convertor and it can go up to 300M long for the 3D setup

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpyw View Post

I would get a HDMI over Cat5/6 coverter for that kind of length.
Monoprice have that convertor and it can go up to 300M long for the 3D setup

Can't find one that supports 1080p + deep color. Thinking a projector isn't going to work for me.
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here's one that support 3D & Deep colour

Atlona HDMI extender with full 3D support

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post #27 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpyw View Post

here's one that support 3D & Deep colour

Atlona HDMI extender with full 3D support

I don't see confirmation that it'll do deep color at 1080p though - only that it supports both.
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post #28 of 38 Old 02-20-2012, 08:35 PM
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75ft sounds like over kill...

That's a basement, right? So 8ft ceiling max? Figure 10 ft up the wall+ extra to the receiver, 20 max across to the projector if your seating area is 14.5ft away from the screen. You'd have plenty of slack with a 35ft cable. Best best is to measure it out.

Also before you purchase a projector look into the lens throw distance and offset angles. I'm not familiar with the Epson's throw distance. Something to think about.

Closer you put the pj to the nearest throw, the brighter it will be but your contrast will take a dive. It's usually a good idea to aim for the center(throw and offset) so you don't experience any lens abnormalities. Honestly you'll probably not notice anything unless you look for them or you're nitpicking like most of us here

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post #29 of 38 Old 02-21-2012, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I can't go directly to the projector due to the ceiling joists running east and west. I have to pull the wires to the left there, run them down the soffit, and then back to the center of the ceiling above the seating area.
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post #30 of 38 Old 02-21-2012, 09:41 AM
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Just a couple comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick G View Post

Really? A premium HDMI 1.4-spec'd cable can't handle 75 ft? I can't believe that distance is unusual for a projector setup.

I see the BJC was already linked, but there's no such thing as an "HDMI 1.4-spec'd cable", HDMI cables only come in two flavors, Standard, and High Speed. My understanding is that there is no High Speed certified cable over 25ft.

But don't let that discourage you too much, at least for now. High Speeds certification is for well beyond 1080p60, even 3D, a lot of us have successfully used Standard speed HDMI cables for 1080p60 and distances well over 25ft. I've got two 50' HDMI cables (Monoprice 22AWG) that pass 1080p60 just fine.

But like was mentioned, you should measure, I had a setup not too unsimilar to yours, equipment in front and wire run down the side, but 50' was enough for that.

Quote:
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Can't find one that supports 1080p + deep color. Thinking a projector isn't going to work for me.

Do you actually have anything that supports Deep Color? Blu-ray doesn't, nor do any other consumer video sources.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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