70+ inch LED LCD impact on projectors? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 70 Old 03-27-2012, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanG View Post

Sorry I did not read this whole thread but I just wanted to say that when I heard the 70 and 80 inch sharps were coming my initial thought was it would indeed dent the projector market. After all the prices were cheaper than some mid level projectors.

Then I stumbled upon them at Co$tco the other day and i can honestly say they looked terrible. Not sharp at all. colors were bland and I dont think i would like it even if it were properly calibrated.
The projector market is safe for many years to come.

I totally agree. I dont have the Elite but am happy with my 70" just because of the price and its size. There are a lot of issues with it that will make me take advantage of the 3 year replacement warranty I purchased with it. I "will" be returning it once the fixes are addressed but for now it does good in the living room with lots of light.

The OLEDs will have all the problems like any other new technology if you ask me. I just dont see them being affordable and have close to an acceptable image for quite some time. Look how long LED has been out and there still isnt a "great" tv if you ask me. I havent seen them all by any means but I do stop into the Magnollia store about once a month and spend quite a bit of time messing with the newer tvs. I played with the panny vt30 and the samsung pn63 8000 for a few weeks before I finally decided on the samsung. I could be totally wrong but cost vs pq on the oleds will be very bad for quite some time when one can buy a plasma for any room or diy screen and many projectors for theater on the cheap.
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post #32 of 70 Old 04-08-2012, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I never felt that way. I was always put off by every rear projection set I've ever seen, and that included most of the best digital versions, and many of the highly lauded CRT RPTVs. I never saw a RPTV that didn't obviously hot-spot and shift image quality with viewer position (which I hate), and which did not combine this with distracting "silk screen effect" of seeing the texture of the screen.

I felt even early Panasonic plasmas were more satisfying than RPTVs, for the added sharpness and clarity, perfect geometry, even illumination, unlimited viewing angles etc, all of which for me made for a more natural viewing experience.

I understand of course that the choice of which pluses and minuses one is willing to live with is subjective, as far as displays go.

BTW, on the topic of the OP, I was a flat panel fan for a long time. But once I started really investigating projectors (digital) what shocked me was how friggin' SHARP and detailed the images could be from a projector. It still amazes me now. When I'm looking at flat panels (at home or in stores, friend's houses etc) they look sharp for sure, but the image from my JVC often strikes me as looking at least as sharp and detailed, despite being much larger in size.

I don't doubt your observation but I would think that good plasma would have better intra-scene contrast simply because the projector exhibits light scatter which a plasma would not. I am excited that companies are coming out with 55 inch OlEDs because I think it would be easier to scale that technology in size.
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post #33 of 70 Old 04-08-2012, 06:12 PM
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Yeah, I remember the Pioneer Kuro plasmas being measured as having ANSI or intra-scene contrast ratios that were crazy - projectors could only dream about such performance (but it's hard to imaging projector's ever achieving panel-like ANSI in any remotely typical home theater room).
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post #34 of 70 Old 04-17-2012, 05:06 PM
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Ohlson very well knows, that most projectors go into class rooms and meeting/conference rooms, those applications are low hanging fruit for those large Sharp LCDs at 3-3.5K USD. The portable market doesn't care about resolution so WXGA Casio's and similar are to be popular there.
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post #35 of 70 Old 04-18-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Ohlson very well knows, that most projectors go into class rooms and meeting/conference rooms, those applications are low hanging fruit for those large Sharp LCDs at 3-3.5K USD. The portable market doesn't care about resolution so WXGA Casio's and similar are to be popular there.

How does that compete w/pj + screen for <$1k?

Noah
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post #36 of 70 Old 04-18-2012, 03:24 PM
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Really you get a projector and screen for that money. Even with the 50% discounts in those education buying programmes. As MSRP/listprices on those (U)ST projectors are considerably higher than those of commoditized little LCD projectors.

How do you compete, well easy. One can leave the lights on, that alone makes all the difference.

No complicated installation with cable runs across the room, and no lightblocking windowdressing. Those do cost.

No bulbs to buy.

Lower power bill, as the Sharp draws 170W, compared to 300-350 for a bulb projector with or without a processor. And quick on/off, for wich one needs a more expensive LASER/LED projector like the stationary series from Casio.

Projectors are easier to steal/harder to lock-down.

And so on.
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post #37 of 70 Old 04-18-2012, 06:13 PM
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I am building a house, and the builder (who is reputable, btw) will not prewire for a projector. It's a spec home, and he just 'doesn't do that stuff.' I am trying to get him to just lay an HDMI cable for me, but it just made me realize how complex prepping for a Proj is Vs. a TV.

If I can get him to place a cable in the ceiling, then I will go through with this... but if not, then I will probably get a large TV.

5 years ago I wouldn't even think about this as an option.

But I don't have a dedicated HT anymore - this will be our rec room that will also have to double as our movie room. Definitely changes, at least for me.

My next house will have a dedicated room again (even though the current trend in home sales is indicating this is no longer a major selling point). It's just a difference experience that a TV or even going to the movies can't compete (imho).

A multi-function room? I dunno.... we will see.

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post #38 of 70 Old 04-19-2012, 08:21 AM
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jkirby,

You could always opt for a wireless HDMI? Epson has it inbuilt in some of their models and I'm sure it's available from some cable manufacturer as well.
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post #39 of 70 Old 04-19-2012, 12:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirby View Post

I am building a house, and the builder (who is reputable, btw) will not prewire for a projector. It's a spec home, and he just 'doesn't do that stuff.' I am trying to get him to just lay an HDMI cable for me, but it just made me realize how complex prepping for a Proj is Vs. a TV.

If I can get him to place a cable in the ceiling, then I will go through with this... but if not, then I will probably get a large TV.

5 years ago I wouldn't even think about this as an option.

But I don't have a dedicated HT anymore - this will be our rec room that will also have to double as our movie room. Definitely changes, at least for me.

My next house will have a dedicated room again (even though the current trend in home sales is indicating this is no longer a major selling point). It's just a difference experience that a TV or even going to the movies can't compete (imho).

A multi-function room? I dunno.... we will see.

I had the same issue. Their phone wire is typically Ethernet cat 5e. Then there is coaxial cable for cable/satellite or OTA.

I had cat5e added to just about every room and cable added to the master, family and game room.
I've had NO issues using a Cisco 16 port gigabit switch. My dual HdHome tuner outputs directly to Ethernet.
The main WMC 7 htpc recorder has a dual dedicated ATSC tuner connected directly to the OTA antenna in the garage attic.
In comparison wireless is a band-aid and much less reliable.
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post #40 of 70 Old 04-19-2012, 06:41 PM
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Not sure I understand. How does an ethernet port help with an HDMI connection to a projector??

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post #41 of 70 Old 04-20-2012, 04:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirby View Post

Not sure I understand. How does an ethernet port help with an HDMI connection to a projector??

HDMI is lacking in many ways. As a general principle I would not install it in walls. However I did run a 30ft HDMI cable and power up through the wall and up into the attic for my ceiling mounted projector. This was after the house was built. I used round PVC orifices in the walls to avoid the issues of HDMI wall plates. Not the most elegant but again I’ve NO issues.

The builder also wants to avoid the issues of installed HDMI cable not working with unknown gear. This is all too common (in this forum and an every installer’s nightmare) with the new homeowner likely to blame the builder. (Ok lets rip out the wall and try this cable!) This is also why the builder calls the Ethernet wire "phone wire".

So you work with the options available. Most spec home builders will install extra electrical outlets and Ethernet cable as there is no risk involved. Make it part of the initial contract.
So I would pay extra to have "phone wire" and an electrical installed (as part of a dedicated 20 amp circuit) where the projector are likely to be installed. Some 3D IR transmitters use Cat 5/6 anyway. This takes some look-ahead knowledge of screen size and projector and seating distances. In my home theater room I have a 120" screen and installed so I located the mount about 14.5' back.

Here are some less than ideal HDMI solutions:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/se...tender&x=0&y=0

Good luck!
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post #42 of 70 Old 04-20-2012, 06:17 AM
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I've seen both the Sharp 70 and 80" models in various stores. Perhaps they have some particularly bad OOTB settings or something, but in every case the image (even when playing the Sharp proprietary demo images) was surprisingly soft, and color was pretty bland. (BTW, why any company would virtually ensure their product looks like crap on the sales floor with awful OOTB settings is beyond me - but then again one can't rule out incompetence in AV staffs, which to me is just as baffling for places trying to sell displays).

I get a far sharper image, not to mention a much larger image, from my RS55 projector.

BTW, it's funny how comparisons affect perception. When the Panasonic 65" plasmas first came out they appeared gigantic and cinematic to me, and I was going to design my home theater around one. At the store yesterday with the Sharp 80" in the same room, the 65" looked small, just like a regular TV. And the Sharp itself didn't look terribly large either to me, given how I'm used to a much larger projected image at home.
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post #43 of 70 Old 04-25-2012, 08:01 PM
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PJs are cheaper and easier to use then a 70" LED, imagine you carrying around such a thing.
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post #44 of 70 Old 04-29-2012, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirby View Post

Not sure I understand. How does an ethernet port help with an HDMI connection to a projector??

I think this may be in reference to using a Cat5E / Cat 6 drop (buried wires in a ceiling or wall) in lieu of an HDMI run. The cat5E / Cat 6 drop would allow you to place a video balun at each end point where by you are protected from changing Video standards HDMI1.3, 1.4...etc...You could then simply change out your baluns in stead of having to tear through walls to change a cable.

Cheers,

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post #45 of 70 Old 04-29-2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I've seen both the Sharp 70 and 80" models in various stores. Perhaps they have some particularly bad OOTB settings or something, but in every case the image (even when playing the Sharp proprietary demo images) was surprisingly soft, and color was pretty bland. (BTW, why any company would virtually ensure their product looks like crap on the sales floor with awful OOTB settings is beyond me - but then again one can't rule out incompetence in AV staffs, which to me is just as baffling for places trying to sell displays).

.

TV's for the masses.....mfg's put up those units for QTY sales , and then have a completely different SKU with better componants in a higher end retail end point....

At the Costco I go to those TV's never have a chance to sit on the shelf every time I head in the only one there is the demo unit...less than $2500.00 for a 70" LCD... is a no brainer if all your after is a good picture, support for Netflix, and 1080P Hell a friend of mine put two on the wall for Sunday night foot ball instead of using his drop down for the games....I have to admit its a pretty cool setup....

Admittedly with the pricing dropping so significantly on these bigger units...if the quality gets that much better and the screens get bigger for a lower price, I'd be all over that, I'd probably try and fit two of em as well..

Cheers,

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post #46 of 70 Old 04-29-2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirby View Post

Not sure I understand. How does an ethernet port help with an HDMI connection to a projector??

Some of the new Epsons (the models ending with "W") have an HDMI wireless connection, which means that the HDMI signal is sent wirelessly from your source/AVR (using a dongle) to the projector. No cabling necessary. Nothing to do with wifi or ethernet.
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post #47 of 70 Old 05-08-2012, 09:59 PM
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No question large panel TVs are going to bite into the projector market. TVs have a number of advantages including brightness, low maintenance and familiarity.

While projectors as they are have their advantages over large panels I believe they may go the way of the dinosaur.

Pico projectors on the other hand have a renascence coming shortly. Just as soon as as iphones and IPads and their similar brethren have the ability to project a high def image.
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post #48 of 70 Old 05-08-2012, 10:17 PM
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100"+ TV's will doubtfully be cheap anytime soon, part of the reason is because the shipping and storage size. A 100"+ TV in a box is so huge that it's absolutely ridiculous.

Even if they were $3000, there is then the added problem of shipping them from the store to your house, and then getting it through the door, and it goes on and on. Then when TV's reach that size, getting it into the specific room you need to get it to also isn't easy.

Can you imagine having a 120" TV delivered to your home. Before packaging and any extra space the TV build required, a 120" is about 9 feet long and 6 feet tall, after packing it would be about 10 feet long and 7-8 feet high. A 120" CIH TV after packaging could be 12 feet long, going to need a wrecking ball through the side of the house to get that to the HT room. Sure you could unbox it first, but it's still going to be almost 10' long and be hard as heck to move it through the house to the proper room (and most houses don't have windows this big to jimmy it in through either). That's almost twice as long as your average couch and twice as tall.

Sure many of us AVS'rs wouldn't care about all that trouble, but I wouldn't call projectors dinosaurs any time soon.


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post #49 of 70 Old 05-09-2012, 06:46 AM
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Of coure, if the TV could be split into sections or rolled up...
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post #50 of 70 Old 05-09-2012, 06:53 AM
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Flexible OLED displays have been in development for a few years. One can hope that large ones will become available at reasonable prices someday. I've had A/V hopes dashed in the past, though...

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post #51 of 70 Old 05-09-2012, 10:29 AM
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We recently put the Sharp 80" in our living room. When I built our new house last year, I took the builder's option for a dedicated media room upstairs with plans to setup a dedicated screen and projector based theater.

I still plan to do that, as I want a 130" Scope screen in that room. However, having the 80" now allows me to delay putting in the dedicated home theater for a few years.

I'm hopeful that LED based lighting and 4K projection will enter the "mainstream" of the dedicated projector market in the next few generations before I put down the cash for all that gear.
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post #52 of 70 Old 05-15-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexas View Post

No question large panel TVs are going to bite into the projector market. TVs have a number of advantages including brightness, low maintenance and familiarity.

While projectors as they are have their advantages over large panels I believe they may go the way of the dinosaur.

Pico projectors on the other hand have a renascence coming shortly. Just as soon as as iphones and IPads and their similar brethren have the ability to project a high def image.

Keep in mind, TV's have their own brightness issues and uniformity issues as they get larger.

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post #53 of 70 Old 05-15-2012, 10:11 PM
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I'll take a contrarian view here... the huge LED LCDs will INCREASE projector sales. Why? because it will expose the costco crowd to how awesome really big screen viewing is, and (at the same time) how BIG really big screens are. Conversation goes something like this:

(Clark Griswold-like voice): "Whoa! Honey, check this out! Wouldn't it be great if we could fit a screen THIS big in our living room?!"

(better half in not quite as enthusiastic of a voice): "Ha! that thing is bigger than our wall!"

"Movie nights with the kids would be great, and look, this is less than we paid for our current TV!"

(in a consoling, but confident, tone) "It's not so much the price, but the size... the TV we have now looks ridiculous on the wall... Let me know when they can make it disappear when you turn it off."

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #54 of 70 Old 05-26-2012, 08:24 AM
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i just moved and in the market for a new tv or projector. how much room does one need for say a 100, 120 or 150 inch screen set up. any good short or ultra short throw 3d projectors in 1080 p someone can recommend for such. living ina shot gun house in new orleans. ceilings ill say are like 12 ft or so. have yet to measure room but i'll say 15-18 maybe from wall to wall.
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post #55 of 70 Old 05-26-2012, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnola View Post

i just moved and in the market for a new tv or projector. how much room does one need for say a 100, 120 or 150 inch screen set up. any good short or ultra short throw 3d projectors in 1080 p someone can recommend for such. living ina shot gun house in new orleans. ceilings ill say are like 12 ft or so. have yet to measure room but i'll say 15-18 maybe from wall to wall.

if you pick one of the popular models (Sony HW30, JVC RS45, Epson 5010), the projector calculator will let you pick the size of the screen and the distance require to fill the screen.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...ulator-pro.cfm
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post #56 of 70 Old 05-26-2012, 09:06 AM
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I have panasonic 65vt25 and as much as I love this tv, the image and overall experience of my jvc rs35 on a 100 inch screen is much more enjoyable and thrilling.A projector setup is an cinematic experience no tv can match.
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post #57 of 70 Old 05-26-2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

I am not sure of your point. A projector is already more competitive. Right now Sharp is the only one producing anything over 70". Their 80" has a street price of $4K still. I can get a projector and 92" screen or above for under $1500.

Better, if you got the room, you can get a bright, 150 inch 1080p screen for around $1000.

Viewsonic Pro8200 ($800 as if this writing)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...nic-_-24116466

Dirt Cheap Elite screen (150 inch cost $205 as of this post)

http://www.visualapex.com/Projector-...=HT&Category=3
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post #58 of 70 Old 05-26-2012, 01:37 PM
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Hmmm, not to be a downer or anything, lol

But I too have the Panasonic 65VT25 and absolutely love it.

I went to audition the higher-end JVC projectors - higher-end than the RS35 - and I could not wait to get back home to my VT25...

The picture is much brighter and the colors are much better...

It may not be the same cinematic experience, but I could not stand watching the dull, soft, JVC projector picture...

Now that Panasonic has come out with 85" ($25,000) and 103" ($40,000) plasmas - and even 145" and 152" plasmas (but these prices are still insane)...

I think in the next few years projectors might have a fight on their hands...

Especially people who are paying $30,000+ on a projector and another $10,000+ on a screen...

Just my thoughts...






Quote:
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I have panasonic 65vt25 and as much as I love this tv, the image and overall experience of my jvc rs35 on a 100 inch screen is much more enjoyable and thrilling.A projector setup is an cinematic experience no tv can match.

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post #59 of 70 Old 05-26-2012, 01:42 PM
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As much as I believe a flex OLED screen size of 120" wide could match my current screen size and likely have better contrast and brightness than most current projector technology, I truly expect laser 4K pj and 4K source to beat it to market and likely at better a price point, especially if Red follows through on its $10K 4K pj, with expected competitively priced other manufacturer's offerings shortly thereafter.

So, for the larger screen market I think for the nearer future that projector tech will continue to advance and improve PQ to make it more suitable, at least price wise.
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post #60 of 70 Old 05-26-2012, 01:44 PM
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I'll give up my 110" screen when they pry my cold dead fingers off of it ..

Come on now .. PJ's get better and better .. until you've actually had a true "Home Theater", it's impossible to know where those of us that do come from ..

The PJ is not going away ..

And for all the whining about this and that, you'd think some had never visited a real commercial theater .. people pay good money for that experience .. I can walk down a flight of steps and get it every day ..

Uncle Willie


Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
mgkdragn is online now  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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